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[BluRayHiDef]

nVidia has to run the game to generate the results; it's not looking at source code...that would be rather useless. If they want these features for a launch of a game a dev would have to supply a copy to nVidia (and convince them to use their servers specifically for that game).. so there is some back and forth between devs for this, but it's not source code.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[IntentionalPun]

No the usage goes down and, that is a common thermal latency issue (pre-PS5 paradigm change) where the GPU has been drawing lots of power for 3D, then menu screen is 3D-OFF, and because the GPU isn’t transforming the higher power into work done and there is latency between power draw high and low, the added power gets passed to the GPU and converted more to heat – when the menu comes on – hence the fan kicking in. The ambient temp of the chip is then higher, so returning to 3D-ON doesn’t remove the added temp quickly, and so the fan keeps running high.

Ok thanks; still confusing. (that's not what I've read though, i read it has to do with the unlocked framerates of the background game causing the menus to run at 1000FPS causing the load/heat) It's still a strange scenario where heat goes up and thus the PS5's tech will kick in. It's causing confusion making people think that generally the PS5 downclocks "when power is not needed." The reality outside of these menu scenarios is more of a catch 22; PS5 downclocks when power would be needed the most (when workload is high.) Albeit hopefully only a little bit.. and it does it consistently so devs can plan for it.

Normally that would only happen during heavy gameplay moments, not menus.

 

[ethomaz]

Normally that would only happen during heavy gameplay moments, not menus.

Menus reaches 1000 fps or more (you have examples on PC... we can't actually count the fps in consoles because the display can't display them)... so it really generate heavy workloads that make the GPU heat go up.

 

[Imtjnotu]

cod warzone menu screen makes my pro fan go so loud i fear for its safety.

My pro is in afterburner mode. It's louder in the menu than the actual game lol

 

[DaGwaphics]

I believe nVidia needs to run at super resolution in that computer to get the images to AI training for that game.

They've moved to a more agnostic approach with DLSS 2.0, from their site:

"One Network For All Games - The original DLSS required training the AI network for each new game. DLSS 2.0 trains using non-game-specific content, delivering a generalized network that works across games. This means faster game integrations, and ultimately more DLSS games."

Many underestimate this technology, IMO. This is the future of game development. More and more of the GPU compute resources available to developers will be put into these techniques, the performance benefits of working with as little as 1/4 of the resolution internally is too good to pass up. Then there are the bandwidth benefits, you can literally reduce the bandwidth you need for texture assets by a factor of 4.

 

[ethomaz]

They've moved to a more agnostic approach with DLSS 2.0, from their site:

"One Network For All Games - The original DLSS required training the AI network for each new game. DLSS 2.0 trains using non-game-specific content, delivering a generalized network that works across games. This means faster game integrations, and ultimately more DLSS games."

Many underestimate this technology, IMO. This is the future of game development. More and more of the GPU compute resources available to developers will be put into these techniques, the performance benefits of working with as little as 1/4 of the resolution internally is too good to pass up. Then there are the bandwidth benefits, you can literally reduce the bandwidth you need for texture assets by 75%.

Interesting.

Less accurate training (less accurate reconstruction) for more games integration.
It probably can create reconstruction mistakes (artifacts).

 

[SlimySnake]

Amazon lists Days Gone for PC.

Days Gone Edition: Amazon.fr: Jeux vidéo

Achetez Days Gone Edition : PC - Jeux vidéo : Amazon.fr ✓ Livraison gratuite possible dès 25€

www.amazon.fr

I called it. Sony is going the Microsoft route and should be simultaneously launching all exclusives on PC eventually. It took MS a couple of years after Phil denied that it would be every game. I would say it will take Sony a couple of years to fully migrate over to PC as well.

Just another one of many poor decisions by the current brass at Sony. Giving people a reason not to buy your console is so stupid you gotta question the sanity of these people. At least MS has a store so they get a full revenue from their games on PC. Sony seems to be putting these on steam and amazon.

Classic short term thinking. Good for gamers though. We should be able to play most of the next gen games at 60 fps instead of the 30 fps console versions.

 

[SgtCaffran]

Where did you get the idea that Audio RT can't do acoustics simulations? if anything the real time solution will be more realistic and accurate.
PA baked audio isn't just for XSX though, its meant for XB1 and PCs without RT capabilities too. The merit behind it is to have same audio features across different platforms
Not because Audio RT isn't a favorable option, both Sony&NV mentioned their GPU hardware can do Audio RT, Cerny went as far as to provide examples.

I am not saying you can't do acoustics simulation with raytracing, I just haven't seen any examples. Which makes sense as we are now starting to get the required power for raytracing. I'm sure a lot is possible but you are still trying to mimic waves with rays, light and sound have completely different behaviour. If you have found some more info or examples on this then let me know! That's by the way a good point that Xbox wants to support the One X with this technology as well.

I get that but you were comparing fixed functions from TE with PA general functions which encompasses offline calculations, use of GPU CUs (possibly CPU?) & the audio chip giving the false impression that the xbox chip can handle acoustics simulations (audio rt) while TE can't

Well I have always mentioned that they use offline prebaking for the simulation part so I thought the explanation was pretty clear. Anyway, I still think the Tempest Engine audio chip cannot do environment acoustics simulation. That would only be possible with the RT cores. Please note I'm using the word simulation here, I don't mean to say it can't do "regular" audio processing like convolution reverb as discussed in my other post. The Xbox solution would not need to use RT cores for environment acoustics simulation, so I guess that's a (relatively small) advantage.

Yes but Project Acoustics capabilities are not limited to the audio chip, its also using GPU & CPU. Integration of offline calculations could be done with TE too, as i've mentioned early I don't think MS will prevent competing consoles from using PA offline calculations on multiplatform games since this is integrated into games design otherwise they would just use a in-house solution.

Wrong person in second quote btw

Fixed the quote, thanks. It would actually be funny if the Project Acoustics offline models are going to run on PS5 ports as well! I have no doubt that the TE audio chip would be able to handle them.

 

[DaGwaphics]

Interesting.

Less accurate training for more games integration.

It should work a lot better, the predictive model of the previous version had a lot of unintended side-effects.

 

[IntentionalPun]

I called it. Sony is going the Microsoft route and should be simultaneously launching all exclusives on PC eventually.

Eh.. that's quite a leap of logic there. What you've "called" hasn't happened lol

 

[SlimySnake]

My pro is in afterburner mode. It's louder in the menu than the actual game lol

Horizon and god of war world map is the same issue. Im glad cerny mentioned it. Uncharted 4 title screen is the same. I literally have to load in a game as asap or it will explode.

I think what happens here is that devs dont optimize menu screens. Where as the activity in games is dynamic with slower sections and sections with a lot going on in screens, the menus are constant and if they are running at 4k at all times, it causes the gpu to run at max constantly.

i actually run games like dreams in 1080p mode now because the campaign MM made is pushing visuals so hard it makes fan run at max at all times.

If anything, the new power control logic will help devs see which activity pushes temps and we wont have problems like this anymore.

 

[SlimySnake]

Eh.. that's quite a leap of logic there. What you've "called" hasn't happened lol

it kinda has. Herman Hurst said that Horizon going on PC doesnt mean other games will. And yet here we are.

 

[DaGwaphics]

^ This is a stupid oversight that has existed for generations. Note to devs, frame cap.

 

[Fake]

cod warzone menu screen makes my pro fan go so loud i fear for its safety.

Days Gone make as well, but nothing beats God of War 2018 when you enter on menu screen. Don't know why.

 

[IntentionalPun]

it kinda has. Herman Hurst said that Horizon going on PC doesnt mean other games will. And yet here we are.

It's been a full year since Days Gone released on PS4; if that Amazon listing is real we don't know when it's coming.

It's a far cry from Sony releasing all first party games simultaneously.

 

[SonGoku]

I'm sure a lot is possible but you are still trying to mimic waves with rays, light and sound have completely different behaviour. If you have found some more info or examples on this then let me know! That's by the way a good point that Xbox wants to support the One X with this technology as well.

That wasn't meant as an affront btw, im genuinely curious since both Sony & Nvidia showed interest in Audio RT, this wave behavior could perhaps be added to the calculations its not as if Audio RT is particularly resource intensive. What type of method MS uses for waves simulations CPU, GPU? I suspect RT hardware should be able to accelerate this process if the RT units are repurposed to handle waves within engines or api

, I still think the Tempest Engine audio chip cannot do environment acoustics simulation. That would only be possible with the RT cores. Please note I'm using the word simulation here, I don't mean to say it can't do "regular" audio processing like convolution reverb as discussed in my other post. The Xbox solution would not need to use RT cores for environment acoustics simulation, so I guess that's a (relatively small) advantage.

Agree but if MS wants this solution to be used in multiplatforms it needs to open the door to competing consoles

It would actually be funny if the Project Acoustics offline models are going to run on PS5 ports as well! I have no doubt that the TE audio chip would be able to handle them.

lol true but remember theres a precedent with physix and havok

 

[FeiRR]

Well I explained it in a post before. So Sony BC is just backwards compatibility where the PS5 runs the PS4 game, nothing specially enhanced. XSX runs the game and applies auto-HDR where it actually enhances the game visually.

A proof, please.

 

[SlimySnake]

It's been a full year since Days Gone released on PS4; if that Amazon listing is real we don't know when it's coming.

It's a far cry from Sony releasing all first party games simultaneously.

thats the end game my man. Someone here posted a tweet of Phil saying gears 4 releasing on PC doesnt mean all PC games will release on PC. That was in 2016.

These execs lie. Thats their job. Aside from making money of course, and thats exactly what sony is trying to do when they put games on PC.

Quote me in two years.

 

[IntentionalPun]

thats the end game my man. Someone here posted a tweet of Phil saying gears 4 releasing on PC doesnt mean all PC games will release on PC. That was in 2016.

These execs lie. Thats their job. Aside from making money of course, and thats exactly what sony is trying to do when they put games on PC.

Quote me in two years.

If that happens in 2 years then you will have called it.

Declaring yourself as having called it now is a bit silly.

My prediction: Sony will release some of their first party games 1+ year from launch.. that's far more likely, and is the actual pattern possibly developing.

I'd love for day one PC releases myself but I don't see Sony doing that. And for all we know once PSNow is more mainstream capable they might stop doing PC releases altogether and promote their streaming service.

 

[SlimySnake]

If that happens in 2 years then you will have called it.

Declaring yourself as having called it now is a bit silly.

My prediction: Sony will release some of their first party games 1+ year from launch.. that's far more likely, and is the actual pattern possibly developing.

I'd love for day one PC releases myself but I don't see Sony doing that. And for all we know once PSNow is more mainstream capable they might stop doing PC releases altogether and promote their streaming service.

i called that there will be more PS4 exclusives going to PC, and not just horizon which is what Herman Hurst said when he was trying to Baghdad Bob the news.

 

[SgtCaffran]

That wasn't meant as an affront btw, im genuinely curious since both Sony & Nvidia showed interest in Audio RT, this wave behavior could perhaps be added to the calculations its not as if Audio RT is particularly resource intensive. What type of method MS uses for waves simulations CPU, GPU? I suspect RT hardware should be able to accelerate this process if the RT units are repurposed to handle waves within engines or api

MS uses "wave physics simulation" on Azure servers so probably CPU? I would imagine that a Finite Element model for the room is much better suited for waves than some kind of raytracing solution. Sound just doesn't behave as rays, construction/destruction will be difficult I would imagine. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_interference)

Microsoft announces Project Acoustics for wave based acoustic simulation - MSPoweruser

Microsoft has announced Project Acoustics, a new in-developmement solution for wave based acoustic simulation. The new software solution “models wave effects like occlusion, obstruction, portaling and reverberation effects in complex scenes without requiring manual zone markup or CPU intensive...

mspoweruser.com

According to Microsoft, “Ray-based acoustics methods can check for occlusion using a single source-to-listener ray cast, or drive reverb by estimating local scene volume with a few rays. But these techniques can be unreliable because a pebble occludes as much as a boulder. Rays don’t account for the way sound bends around objects, a phenomenon known as diffraction. Project Acoustics’ simulation captures these effects using a wave-based simulation. The acoustics are more predictable, accurate and seamless.”

Agree but if MS wants this solution to be used in multiplatforms it needs to open the door to competing consoles. Lol true but remember theres a precedent with physix and havok

I think it would be a win if Project Acoustics is combined with the PS5 HRTF 3D audio!

 

[IntentionalPun]

i called that there will be more PS4 exclusives going to PC, and not just horizon which is what Herman Hurst said when he was trying to Baghdad Bob the news.

OK neat; I called that too.. your post was confusing as you immediately described the day one PC releases after claiming you "called it."

But I'd wait for actual confirmation of Days Gone PC before cheering too much lol

 

[sircaw]

Amazon lists Days Gone for PC.

Days Gone Edition: Amazon.fr: Jeux vidéo

Achetez Days Gone Edition : PC - Jeux vidéo : Amazon.fr ✓ Livraison gratuite possible dès 25€

www.amazon.fr

I called it. Sony is going the Microsoft route and should be simultaneously launching all exclusives on PC eventually. It took MS a couple of years after Phil denied that it would be every game. I would say it will take Sony a couple of years to fully migrate over to PC as well.

Just another one of many poor decisions by the current brass at Sony. Giving people a reason not to buy your console is so stupid you gotta question the sanity of these people. At least MS has a store so they get a full revenue from their games on PC. Sony seems to be putting these on steam and amazon.

Classic short term thinking. Good for gamers though. We should be able to play most of the next gen games at 60 fps instead of the 30 fps console versions.

It could be a great marketing strategy. As long as they don't port the sequal to pc for a few years this could end up opening the game up to a new bass, Releasing the sequel only on ps5 will with out doubt greatly push console and game sales especially to people who liked the first but who can not access to the sequel on pc..

Most of the money with these games are made in the first few weeks/months of said games release.
If pc players are prepared to wait 4 or 5 years for the sequel then good for them, i don't think i could.

Imagine Sony create Bloodborne 2, it makes sense to release the first one to pc as long as that second stays locked.

 

[SlimySnake]

OK neat; I called that too.. your post was confusing as you immediately described the day one PC releases after claiming you "called it."

But I'd wait for actual confirmation of Days Gone PC before cheering too much lol

im not cheering. this is a funeral lmao. dumbest move sony couldve made imo. but thats a topic for another thread.

 

[IntentionalPun]

im not cheering. this is a funeral lmao. dumbest move sony couldve made imo. but thats a topic for another thread.

Eh... why would that upset you as a consumer that people get to play games on PC?

 

[Fake]

im not cheering. this is a funeral lmao. dumbest move sony couldve made imo. but thats a topic for another thread.

Agree in both ways... As much I don't like this situation I still don't like people bring exclusivites deals to the next gen thread discussion. Maybe for console war or bait, dunno. Releasing a 5 years old game on PC is IMO super fine, but release at the same day or one year old is not. But again, as you said, subject for another thread.

 

[CrysisFreak]

Amazon listed Bloodborne coming to PC once in 2015, that didn't turn out that well for PC only gamers though.

 

[mckmas8808]

Did you forget the /s tag?
Because its not. Maybe in your social bubble but not in a statistically relevant percentage of console owners.

I didn't say most people. I say "MANY" people. Enough people where Dolby Atmos is now a thing that matters to include in games, movies, and TV shows.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Amazon listed Bloodborne coming to PC once in 2015, that didn't turn out that well for PC only gamers though.

Yeah it doesn't mean that much; could be a mistake from a 3rd party seller or something.

edit: Hmm.. it does get associated with "Playstation".. which I think without hacking means it was listed by someone at Sony. interesting.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

Amazon lists Days Gone for PC.

Days Gone Edition: Amazon.fr: Jeux vidéo

Achetez Days Gone Edition : PC - Jeux vidéo : Amazon.fr ✓ Livraison gratuite possible dès 25€

www.amazon.fr

I called it. Sony is going the Microsoft route and should be simultaneously launching all exclusives on PC eventually. It took MS a couple of years after Phil denied that it would be every game. I would say it will take Sony a couple of years to fully migrate over to PC as well.

Just another one of many poor decisions by the current brass at Sony. Giving people a reason not to buy your console is so stupid you gotta question the sanity of these people. At least MS has a store so they get a full revenue from their games on PC. Sony seems to be putting these on steam and amazon.

Classic short term thinking. Good for gamers though. We should be able to play most of the next gen games at 60 fps instead of the 30 fps console versions.

This isn't a poor decision at all. Most people who play video games are intimidated by the learning curve of building a PC or are turned off by the price of pre-built PCs that can run games well or are turned off by the idea of having to troubleshoot PC issues and manually install drivers and updates.

 

[Kusarigama]

Well I explained it in a post before. So Sony BC is just backwards compatibility where the PS5 runs the PS4 game, nothing specially enhanced. XSX runs the game and applies auto-HDR where it actually enhances the game visually.

PS5 BC has 3 modes actually.
1. Boosted mode will do PS4 games at better resolution than Pro version.
2. PS4 Pro legacy mode.
3. PS4 legacy mode.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

A proof, please.

Oh you meant on the PS side. No proof yet, but I would imagine that this was part of the Cerny presentation if they actually had something like this... They already said they had BC for almost every game, and they already knew what XSX could do so it doesn't make any sense that they wouldn't tell us how they did this if there wasn't something new and innovative like Microsoft did.

 

[Bonsaibäumchen]

This isn't a poor decision at all. Most people who play video games are intimidated by the learning curve of building a PC or are turned off by the price of pre-built PCs that can run games well or are turned off by the idea of having to troubleshoot PC issues and manually install drivers and updates.

Days Gone was mediocore anyways. Couldn't even be bothered to finish it.

I wouldn't mind if they release all Playstation exclusives onto pc eventually. However if they are going to reduce the timespan to a year, I won't have to buy antoher console anymore. I'll be able to play everything on my pc anyways.

 

[Fake]

PS5 BC has 3 modes actually.
1. Boosted mode will do PS4 games at better resolution than Pro version.
2. PS4 Pro legacy mode.

Why PS5 have BC of PS4 PRO legacy mode? For use supersample/cb render? Maybe trying to simulate the dedicated checkerboard render hardware inside PRO.

Days Gone was mediocore anyways. Couldn't even be bothered to finish it.

I wouldn't mind if they release all Playstation exclusives onto pc eventually. However if they are going to reduce the timespan to a year, I won't have to buy antoher console anymore. I'll be able to play everything on my pc anyways.

Well, there is.
Thats why I don't like people to bringing this discussion to next gen thread. Totally unnecessary hot take.

 

[IntentionalPun]

This isn't a poor decision at all. Most people who play video games are intimidated by the learning curve of building a PC or are turned off by the price of pre-built PCs that can run games well or are turned off by the idea of having to troubleshoot PC issues and manually install drivers and updates.

There's tons of possibilities for it to be a positive thing for Sony's business.

- Current PC gamers might not buy a Playstation who would have.. but a lot of these people aren't buying many games, only a few exclusives.. so that hardware sale isn't some big loss
- Current PC gamers who aren't buying Playstation might check out their games on PC and actually decide to buy a Playstation because of it, especially if they don't do day one exclusives
- There's the possibility of Sony releasing a storefront for PC... I think they are one company who actually has a chance at making that successful even for 3rd parties.. but for their 1st party games that takes the sting out of going PC as they can keep 100% of the profit (minus the cost of running the store.)

But.. personally not sure why I should care about the bottom line of this incredibly successful mega-corp lol.. bring the games to PC so consumers have more options = WIN for anyone not a console warrior.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

Days Gone was mediocore anyways. Couldn't even be bothered to finish it.

I wouldn't mind if they release all Playstation exclusives onto pc eventually. However if they are going to reduce the timespan to a year, I won't have to buy antoher console anymore. I'll be able to play everything on my pc anyways.

You're a very small subset of the type of people who buy video-game consoles. Most people who buy them are your average Joes who are too intellectually lazy to be bothered with the task of building a computer and maintaining its hardware and software. I'm certain that if or when Sony gets to a point where they release games on their consoles and on PC simultaneously, their portion of the console market won't shrink to a degree that would negate the profits that they'll earn from the extra software sales on PC. This is a great decision from a business standpoint.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

There's tons of possibilities for it to be a positive thing for Sony's business.

- Current PC gamers might not buy a Playstation who would have.. but a lot of these people aren't buying many games, only a few exclusives.. so that hardware sale isn't some big loss
- Current PC gamers who aren't buying Playstation might check out their games on PC and actually decide to buy a Playstation because of it, especially if they don't do day one exclusives
- There's the possibility of Sony releasing a storefront for PC... I think they are one company who actually has a chance at making that successful even for 3rd parties.. but for their 1st party games that takes the sting out of going PC as they can keep 100% of the profit (minus the cost of running the store.)

But.. personally not sure why I should care about the bottom line of this incredibly successful mega-corp lol.. bring the games to PC so consumers have more options = WIN for anyone not a console warrior.

Agreed. I don't see why there are people who think that this is a bad business move.

 

[Fake]

Agreed. I don't see why there are people who think that this is a bad business move.

Not a bad business move, money still money. But I find super cute this culture of what we call 'gaming'. I like how those business only affect Sony and Microsoft, but not Nintendo.
I like when Sony and Microsoft get bashed by launching a game at a higher price and eventually have to reduce the price not in the same way Nintendo does.
I like when port begs are fine when Nintendo maintain their exclusives on their machine and no one call 'anti-consumer'.
I like when every other gaming company reduce hardware prices, reduce games prices, while Nintendo still find being expensive Nintendo.

Its a fucking nerd culture. Nobody is saying for Sony should not making money. Capitalism speaks for himself. If everyone want to make money, release exclusives in every damn plataform for everyone play. Good for consumers, right?
Now, the reality is Nintendo get the pass while Sony and Microsoft need to be honest for making money, being a 'friendly consumer' company, making their online service works like a dream, give me games at free, while Nintendo is almost 100 years old behind. It seems like yesterday I was reading people complaining about Sony giving away free games.

BTW, why Nintendo don't do this? I don't see why there are people who think that this is a bad business move.

The amount of people around the internet/twitter/etc taking the stance of being a 'neutral gamer' is enormous. Inside, they don't want Nintendo games in any other plataform, but want other companies to stop being greedy and release their games in Nintendo plataform.

If you want company 'X' to release a game on PC, at least don't be selective. Ask 'X', 'Y' and 'Z' as well. Because, as much people saying 'I want more perfomance IDK why people are complain', this statment works for every plataform, including Nintendo Switch.

 

[devilNprada]

You're a very small subset of the type of people who buy video-game consoles. Most people who buy them are your average Joes who are too intellectually lazy to be bothered with the task of building a computer and maintaining its hardware and software. I'm certain that if or when Sony gets to a point where they release games on their consoles and on PC simultaneously, their portion of the console market won't shrink to a degree that would negate the profits that they'll earn from the extra software sales on PC. This is a great decision from a business standpoint.

Agreed... i am playing Dragon quest builders 2 on the switch, I could have gotten a better performing version on the Playstation sure,,, but convenience > performance.
I feel sorry for people who limit themselves to one gaming platform.

 

[nosseman]

The GPU is not boosted lol

2230Mhz is the normal clock it runs when doing nothing or most of workloads.

It downclock depending of workload.
It is simple when you the brake of your car you say you are boosting it speed? Sony has a virtual “brake” to use when they thought workload is reaching the power draw limit.

You make it sound so strange/bad. Throttling down from the base clock sounds so much worse than boosting to or as close as possible to 2,23Ghz.

Even Sony (Cerny) use the term boosting. Do you mean they boost the clock down?

From Cerny - Road to PS5:

"Then we went with a variable frequency strategy for PlayStation 5 which is to say we
continuously run the GPU and CPU in boost mode. "

meaning the PS5 will boost all the time trying to attain the highest clock but not over the capped clock.

Running a GPU at two gigahertz was looking like an unreachable target with the old fixed frequency strategy.
With this new paradigm we're able to run way over that in fact we have to cap the GPU
frequency at two point two three gigahertz so that we can guarantee that the on chip logic operates properly.
36CUs at two point two three gigahertz is ten point three teraflops and we expect the GPU to spend most of its time at or close to that frequency and performance.
Similarly running the CPU at 3 gigahertz was causing headaches with the old strategy. But now we can run it as high as 3.5 gigahertz.
In fact it spends most of its time at that frequency.
That doesn't mean all games will be running in 2.2 3 gigahertz and 3.5 gigahertz when that worst case game arrives it will run at a lower clock speed but not too much lower to reduce power by 10% it only takes a couple of percent reduction in frequency.

Nowhere in the talk he used the term base clock.

 

[Kusarigama]

Why PS5 have BC of PS4 PRO legacy mode? For use supersample/cb render? Maybe trying to simulate the dedicated checkerboard render hardware inside PRO.

Some games with PS4 Pro enhancements may not work with the PS5 boosted mode so PS5 will run them in PS4 Pro legacy BC mode with their Pro enhancements only. If a games which released before PS4 Pro and does not work with PS4 Pro's boost mode and should it happen that it doesn't work with PS5's boosted BC then it will run in PS4 legacy BC mode.

 

[SamWeb]

They are fussing based on BigNavi being twice the actual RDNA... 8 SA BRINGS 128 ROPs.
BTW that link is wrong AMD changed the with 2 SA per SE with RDNA so it is not 8 SE like the news imply but 4 SEs with 2 SAs each or 2 SEe with 4 SAs each.

But all that is about rumors on RDNA 2.

RDNA just like GCN is limited to max 64 ROPs.

Link?

8SA? What is SA?

RX 470 (GCN) 8 ROPs (RB) x 4 = 32

RDNA 16 ROPs (RB) x 4 = 64

 

[Fake]

Some games with PS4 Pro enhancements may not work with the PS5 boosted mode so PS5 will run them in PS4 Pro legacy BC mode with their Pro enhancements only. If a games which released before PS4 Pro and does not work with PS4 Pro's boost mode and should it happen that it doesn't work with PS5's boosted BC then it will run in PS4 legacy BC mode.

If this means the PS4 PRO mode will not get the PS5 enhancements?

 

[ethomaz]

Link?

8SA? What is SA?

RX 470 (GCN) 8 ROPs (RB) x 4 = 32

RDNA 16 ROPs (RB) x 4 = 64

Shader Array (the red square where the WGP are... there are 4 red square... 2 red square per Shader Engine).

RDNA.
Max 2 Shader Engine.
Each Shader Engine has 2 Shader Arrays.
Each Shader Array has max 4 Render Backend.
Each Render Backend has 4 ROPs.
Max 64 ROPs.

GCN.
Max 4 SE.
Max 4 RB per SE.
4 ROPs per RB.
Max 64 ROPs.

 

[icerock]

Amazon lists Days Gone for PC.

Days Gone Edition: Amazon.fr: Jeux vidéo

Achetez Days Gone Edition : PC - Jeux vidéo : Amazon.fr ✓ Livraison gratuite possible dès 25€

www.amazon.fr

I called it. Sony is going the Microsoft route and should be simultaneously launching all exclusives on PC eventually. It took MS a couple of years after Phil denied that it would be every game. I would say it will take Sony a couple of years to fully migrate over to PC as well.

Just another one of many poor decisions by the current brass at Sony. Giving people a reason not to buy your console is so stupid you gotta question the sanity of these people. At least MS has a store so they get a full revenue from their games on PC. Sony seems to be putting these on steam and amazon.

Classic short term thinking. Good for gamers though. We should be able to play most of the next gen games at 60 fps instead of the 30 fps console versions.

P5 Royal and GT Sport showed up too. Also, Uncharted 1-3 Nathan Drake Collection, God of War and TLOU Part II.

Looks like these listings are bullshit but I expect them to drop some of these on PC. Schreier alluded to it when he broke the Horizon to PC story.

There's tons of possibilities for it to be a positive thing for Sony's business.

- Current PC gamers might not buy a Playstation who would have.. but a lot of these people aren't buying many games, only a few exclusives.. so that hardware sale isn't some big loss
- Current PC gamers who aren't buying Playstation might check out their games on PC and actually decide to buy a Playstation because of it, especially if they don't do day one exclusives
- There's the possibility of Sony releasing a storefront for PC... I think they are one company who actually has a chance at making that successful even for 3rd parties.. but for their 1st party games that takes the sting out of going PC as they can keep 100% of the profit (minus the cost of running the store.)

But.. personally not sure why I should care about the bottom line of this incredibly successful mega-corp lol.. bring the games to PC so consumers have more options = WIN for anyone not a console warrior.

I'm interested to see how financials change due to this strategy but I'm gonna say it's extremely short-term thinking on their end. A PS4 hardware drives their revenue not only through exclusive software, but services like PS+, Now, in addition to 3rd-party subs add up. Then you add to the fact, they mint money through any multi-plat purchase on store. Themes/Avatars/Cosmetics/Micro-transactions are additional driver of revenue. On PC, they're only getting money on sales of exclusive software after steam/epic/other store fronts take their cut. I'll be surprised if number of sales even add up to 10-15% of what it sold on PS4.

Folks need to realize that PC gamers out-number console gamers by large, but sales on their platform is always a fraction of console user-base. Piracy still being the biggest issue in addition to the fact most want to pick the games on cheap during Steam/Epic sale. Sony are gonna get more money out of their titles by doing staggered releases on PC, but they are diluting the USP of buying a PlayStation console which will hurt their revenue in the long-term.

It's also hilarious to think that this strategy is to 'entice' PC gamers to drop ~$449-499 on PS5 to play its exclusives at $60 a pop, when they didn't bother to experience these exclusives at heavy discount (sometimes to the tune of 80%) by buying a PS4 which could be found as low as ~$175-199. Once it becomes apparent that they're doing a staggered release with different time-frame, most will wait it out. Even a dedicated store-front isn't gonna do much for Sony, they're gonna get most profit out of the titles they publish but Steam is still the big-fish where most PC gamers buy their multi-plat. So no revenue on that end.

 

[VanSiriusGabriel]

Oh you meant on the PS side. No proof yet, but I would imagine that this was part of the Cerny presentation if they actually had something like this... They already said they had BC for almost every game, and they already knew what XSX could do so it doesn't make any sense that they wouldn't tell us how they did this if there wasn't something new and innovative like Microsoft did.

On the PS blog they specify that they are indeed working on enhance old games, but nothing more is said. Let's see.

 

[Fake]

Folks need to realize that PC gamers out-number console gamers by large, but sales on their platform is always a fraction of console user-base.

Highly disagree with your statment. Consoles gamers out-number easily PC Gamers. What Console gamers don't out-number are 'PC users', aka people who have a computer. If they will use for gaming or not is another story. Thats mean, 'potential' PC gamers, not necessary 'PC Gamers'.

 

[Radical_3d]

He's literally trying to say that differences between consoles will grow non-stop every gen because more and more powerful devices will be taken as metric, which is not simply wrong, is the exact contrary of reality from a practical and historical point of view. Every new generation will have at least an old gen console of difference (again: two consoles at 90 and 100 TFs is an entire PS5), and because generations are going foward (incredible I need to say this) the old gen consoles used as a difference will also be more powerful, it's completely normal, but this does not equate to a bigger gap every new generation lol. "A whole PS5 as a difference" sounds even more impressive than a whole PS4, as a whole 360 difference sounds more impressive than a whole PS2 difference. It happens every time and yet we get less difference every time.
You can also use another perspective: PS4 has at least TWO 360 (alias: old gen console) of difference with One, not ONE old gen console (PS4) like Sex and PS5. It's proportionally more difference which, IN FACT, it is.

I understood your post. That’s why I said that everybody was too lazy to explain so simply this concept with examples and stuff. I thought I was clearly saying it was a good post but maybe not.

 

[ethomaz]

You make it sound so strange/bad. Throttling down from the base clock sounds so much worse than boosting to or as close as possible to 2,23Ghz.

Even Sony (Cerny) use the term boosting. Do you mean they boost the clock down?

From Cerny - Road to PS5:


meaning the PS5 will boost all the time trying to attain the highest clock but not over the capped clock.



Nowhere in the talk he used the term base clock.

Stange/bad?

It is what it is.
If you are all the time at that clock it is not boost lol

PS5 GPU normal clock is 2230Mhz which run all the time if not reach the capped power draw.... it downclock depending of the workload/power draw.

Pretty simple.

 

[IntentionalPun]

I'm interested to see how financials change due to this strategy but I'm gonna say it's extremely short-term thinking on their end. A PS4 hardware drives their revenue not only through exclusive software, but services like PS+, Now, in addition to 3rd-party subs add up. Then you add to the fact, they mint money through any multi-play purchase on store. Themes/Avatars/Cosmetics/Micro-transactions are additional driver of revenue. On PC, they're only getting money on sales of exclusive software after steam/epic/other store fronts take their cut. I'll be surprised if number of sales even add up to 10-15% of what it sold on PS4.

Folks need to realize that PC gamers out-number console gamers by large, but sales on their platform is always a fraction of console user-base. Piracy still being the biggest issue in addition to the fact most want to pick the games on cheap during Steam/Epic sale. Sony are gonna get more money out of their titles by doing staggered releases on PC, but they are diluting the USP of buying a PlayStation console which will hurt their revenue in the long-term.

It's also hilarious to think that this strategy is to 'entice' PC gamers to drop ~$449-499 on PS5 to play its exclusives at $60 a pop, when they didn't bother to experience these exclusives at heavy discount (sometimes to the tune of 80%) by buying a PS4 which could be found as low as ~$175-199. Once it becomes apparent that they're doing a staggered release with different time-frame, most will wait it out. Even a dedicated store-front isn't gonna do much for Sony, they're gonna get most profit out of the titles they publish but Steam is still the big-fish where most PC gamers buy their multi-plat. So no revenue on that end.

If they do an exclusive storefront a huge portion of this post doesn't matter. I think if one company can come to PC with a storefront and instantly have millions of people begging to download it, it's Sony.

And I literally became a Playstation gamer because after GTA 3 came to PC I really badly wanted to play Vice City but couldn't stand waiting for it to come out on PC. I was enticed by an exclusive coming to PC, I don't see why it's so far fetched of a scenario that it couldn't be a factor. Since that day I've bought every Playstation since, and double-dipped all of my GTA purchases too lol (can't wait for them to come to PC, end up playing on consoel and PC)