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[Bo_Hazem]

Fact is, they still decide the price.
I don't see likely something below 499, people are too fixated on this "10 TFs weak lol" thing. But Sony have insane revenue from Plus, and PS Now is likely growing, they simply can count on monthly income that Xbox do not have. I suppose they could decide a lower price than what the console should be.

Sony has eaten up $200 out of $800 for early PS3. Sony could go kamikaze and sell it for $300 if they feel so to destroy competition and use that revenue + 30% 3rd party sales cut to overcome the loss and enjoy the monopoly in the future. Xbox Division on the other hand is not a priority for Microsoft and can't do wild approaches and should play it safe, that's why we're having this wait game from both. Still, Sony could come with a price and make a sucker punch by changing price down upon release/preorder to bait Xbox.

 

[Gamernyc78]

Sony must go with everything. Otherwise PS5 will crash. We are in a unique situation, with a brutal world crisis, Sony must show starter games that really leave people with their mouths open. Otherwise very few will pay 500 euros given the world situation.

For most people 30 or 60 fps, 2k or 4K do not care we need to see games that leave us thinking "this really is a true new generation leap, this is impossible on ps4". Games like Godfall can go at 4k and 60fps but for the vast majority of the public they do not represent a jump compared to what was seen on ps4.

Don't agree at all. Sony just has to be competent and thyll own this up and coming gen. Sony ps is a beast in market share and ppl paying attention and the reactions alone off of a logo, controller, etc speaks volumes. Tons of ppl right now are waiting for a pre order to go up just to book one regardless of price. If it's 500, it'll sell well if it's 450 a little better but Sony is in the driver's seat. Thy don't need to go extra hard, the market loser needs to do tht and thts Microsoft.

My 600 for psv been put to the side just waitinggggg for tht Amazon pre order.

 

[Neo Blaster]

Sony must go with everything. Otherwise PS5 will crash. We are in a unique situation, with a brutal world crisis, Sony must show starter games that really leave people with their mouths open. Otherwise very few will pay 500 euros given the world situation.

For most people 30 or 60 fps, 2k or 4K do not care we need to see games that leave us thinking "this really is a true new generation leap, this is impossible on ps4". Games like Godfall can go at 4k and 60fps but for the vast majority of the public they do not represent a jump compared to what was seen on ps4.

You can also apply everything you said to MS and XSX, and they don't have the benefit of brand perception with quality games like Sony have.

 

[lepermessiah]

The price of my authority will be five fiddy.

 

[Darius87]

You're arguing semantics at this point. Also, he's implying that they are using Project Corisca as a basis for what they're doing in XSX, not that they are actually that version of Project Corisca.

I'm in agreement that they are likely leveraging at least some of that work with Velocity Architecture, there's no reason to honestly cast doubt on that front. I mean we want the best performance for both systems in all aspects, that would include SSD and I/O correct?

i think he @Sycomunkee saw 100gbps from corsica article and 100GB mentioned by phil and fanboy brain took over after that.

 

[scie]

I get unlimited everything for 15 EUR/month from T-Mobile. Isn't it a German company? They should have a similar offer in their own country.

Yes it is and they charge us 75€ for unlimited data... but besides high taxes, expensive energy costs at least our groceries are surprisingly cheap in Germany

 

[Gamernyc78]

You can also apply everything you said to MS and XSX, and they don't have the benefit of brand perception with quality games like Sony have.

Chemical boy been a little off ever since he found out Microsoft was stronger by 1 TF lol it literally broke his Sony soul and now he's been pessimistic. Idk why as imo psv still seems like a better proposition.

 

[FeiRR]

Yes it is and they charge us 75€ for unlimited data... but besides high taxes, expensive energy costs at least our groceries are surprisingly cheap in Germany

Well, your salary is probably 2 or 3 times mine so I can't shed a tear

 

[IntentionalPun]

While many-a fanboy has said some dumb shit about MS and how they can or will be willing to spend their way to success if you were some sort of financial analyst the 2 company's positions aren't something you should ignore.

Sony is essentially in the same position as they were in 2013: Playstation is both incredibly important as a brand and to their bottom line. All investor eyes are on that bottom line, the price and cost of the PS5, etc.

MS is NOT in the same position as they were in 2013: MS in 2013 had the XBox brand not popular with many executives, famously had a board member wanting them to ax the whole thing, etc. Combined with their team thinking casual gaming and TV features was the way to go and we ended up with the under-powered price-not-to-lose Xbox One.

Today Xbox has the support of their CEO; is gaming focused, and they do kinda need a win. Despite what every gamer on forums seem to think, the console hardware is still key to the brand... their long term strategy is "play anywhere just pay us" but in 2020 people are largely doing that on consoles. The console is the brand ambassador, it's what streamers will use, it's what today people care about.

So they COULD be willing to take a loss this gen again; and it's been hinted at by Phil Spencer.

All I care about is that price lol... save me some money Phil.

But same with Sony; I certainly hope they price competitively too... for my wallet. But for their bottom line they may be less capable.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Sony must go with everything. Otherwise PS5 will crash. We are in a unique situation, with a brutal world crisis, Sony must show starter games that really leave people with their mouths open. Otherwise very few will pay 500 euros given the world situation.

For most people 30 or 60 fps, 2k or 4K do not care we need to see games that leave us thinking "this really is a true new generation leap, this is impossible on ps4". Games like Godfall can go at 4k and 60fps but for the vast majority of the public they do not represent a jump compared to what was seen on ps4.

I can see the unsold PS5's in the US market to be resold at around $1000 or more outside with extreme demand, just like what happens always. PS4 release in the US dried a million copy day one for some to be resold again at higher price. I remember in November 2013 that US-Spec PS4's being sold here around +/- 450 Omani Rials (~$1170 USD). Above that, you must register and pay in cash up front to secure your copy. 1 month later in 1-Dec-2013 it was officially released for $470 USD (181 OMR), and most people were shocked about how cheap it was and vanished in hours. I got the first copy in my region. The early US-spec are mostly the ones suffering from poor thermal paste, the rest are dead-silent from all of what I know and seen (plenty).

It's unfortunate that some might not be able to buy them, but it's more than 99.99% that all those copies will be in extreme demand and resold in the black market outside their native markets.

XSX could sell good in that regard as an extremely cheaper alternative from a worlwide point of view.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

This XSX dev is something.

Not only the DualSense™ sucks but he's basically blaming Sony for being a pain in the ass

He's doing it in purpose, I think he's a smart guy and doesn't believe what he's saying himself. He would gain more sales from this console war and get even supported and sell his mediocre games for Xbox hardcore fans.

It's like those dump videos where some get early copies from PS/xbox/iphone etc to just crash them. The revenue out of the views surpass the loss of buying them.

 

[Metroiddarks]

They're just covering their asses. PC footage, PS logo, Sony's ninjas must've got mad.

Could be a PC or PS5 dev kit running it but who knows? But is possible a studio of this size has a PS5 dev kit (well is normal just look the publisher) so is not so crazy to think they are working in both
versions since they announced.

They are not like a indie studio with a couple of people who now says they have access to a dev kit of a new console .... this just ridiculous.

For me the opinion of a indie studio is important in a couple of aspect like how easy is too dev?, the relationship between console maker and them, new possibilities in gameplay but when an NEW
inde studio or dev is talking me about the limits of graphics and take that with grain of salt.

 

[ethomaz]

This XSX dev is something.

Not only the DualSense™ sucks but he's basically blaming Sony for being a pain in the ass

You know you are wrong when you try to criticize the D-pad lol

 

[Neo Blaster]

He's doing it in purpose, I think he's a smart guy and doesn't believe what he's saying himself. He would gain more sales from this console war and get even supported and sell his mediocre games from Xbox hardcore fans.

It's like those dump videos were some get early copies from PS/xbox/iphone etc to just crash them. The revenue out of the views surpass the loss of buying them.

For an arrogant fanboy dev with mediocre games history, he surely talks a lot.

 

[Aceofspades]

For an arrogant fanboy dev with mediocre games history, he surely talks a lot.

And for some reason he was given more attention than he deserves.

 

[Thirty7ven]

I thought we started with Microsoft's strategy for next gen and how cloud computing fits that narrative? I don't know what MS board of management's (or their shareholders') goals are. I'm sure they're ambitious and 20 m subs won't be enough. I think they want much more, especially when you consider how many titles are available in XGP for the asked price..

It wasn’t my intention to specifically focus on hybrid cloud computing but cloud services.

I haven’t tried Gamepass yet as I’m waiting on Xcloud. I have enough subscriptions atm.

But yes I imagine their success will be measured against their ambitions.

 

[Neo Blaster]

And for some reason he was given more attention than he deserves.

I think that was due to his game being the first 4K 120fps announced for SX. Now we know it's utter crap, but the guy already got all undeserved attention.

 

[xool]

He's doing it in purpose, I think he's a smart guy and doesn't believe what he's saying himself. He would gain more sales from this console war and get even supported and sell his mediocre games for Xbox hardcore fans.

Meh - if he thinks people are going to buy his (shitty) game becuase he took a side in the fanboy wars of 2020 he's a worse businessman than he is a dev. And that's saying something.

 

[Tripolygon]

I'm not convinced at the moment, I think there's a reason MS haven't clarified what they mean by "instantly" ie the GB/s for that 100GB.

But who knows, maybe after they release more information about BCpack.

It is simpler than people think it is. A typical game is say 100GB in size, and because of the nature of SSD and some architectural enhancements and hardware, a game can access any file from that 100GB instantly, maximum throughput of the SSD being 2.4GB/s and IO being 6GB/s.

In contrast to PC

SSD has to load to system RAM and System RAM loads to Video RAM.

 

[Neo Blaster]

Meh - if he thinks people are going to buy his (shitty) game becuase he took a side in the fanboy wars of 2020 he's a worse businessman than he is a dev. And that's saying something.

To him, the game was attacked because it was an SX exclusive, nothing about being an abomination. I think that says it all.

 

[Rusco Da Vino]

I think that was due to his game being the first 4K 120fps announced for SX. Now we know it's utter crap, but the guy already got all undeserved attention.

The reason why this guy is still on the spot is because he keeps attacking Sony for self-promotion and because he was baiting his game as a truly 4K@120ftp next-gen Xbox Series X game.

Microsoft should do something about this.

Anyway, If the guy thinks that he is going to fool the hardcore fans, it is not going to work. He is going to have a few pity sales and nothing more.

 

[Bonsaibäumchen]

DualSense: Until Dawn-Macher vom neuen PS5-Controller begeistert

Während uns ein Blick auf das Design der PlayStation 5 weiterhin verwährt wird, stellte Sony Interactive Entertainment vor ein paar Tagen zumindest den offizi

www.play3.de

Roughly tranlating the intresting Part:
Until Dawn developer is excited about the DualSense Controller, they think its extremly exciting especially for horrorgames to immerse even better with the character you are playing.

 

[FeiRR]

They are not like a indie studio with a couple of people who now says they have access to a dev kit of a new console .... this just ridiculous.

This studio has only one game in their portfolio and it's a card game. I don't have any high expectations for them. They published footage because they wanted free publicity and then Sony probably toned them down because that's not the message they want to send, rightfully so. I don't hold my breath for Godfall, it looks quite generic.

 

[Neofire]

I don't think shareholders have anything to complain about under Nadella's reign. And Phil himself said that he had the backing of Nadella (CEO) and the CFO. So I guess what he wanted to say was "The Xbox division has more dough than ever before"

Are you Implying that Nadella's predecessor didn't back the Xbox division before Phil? Come on X, the original Xbox team probably didn't kiss ass as good as Phil does his boss but to insinuate that the previous CEO didn't support the original Xbox team is crazy.

 

[ethomaz]

And for some reason he was given more attention than he deserves.

He become TimDog’s BFF.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

To complain from Nadella, of course not, MS as a whole is doing quite well. But to complain from Phil and Xbox division, definitely. They must really have a lot of dough to subside Gamepass, and I think Phil's got Nadella's backing after saying he would bring mobile market using Xcloud. So, I think they are extremely dependent on the success of their streaming service, because I don't think Gamepass subsiding will last forever.

Let's not pretend you know Xbox divisions financials. Microsoft already said that Game Pass is not burning cash for this.

Are you Implying that Nadella's predecessor didn't back the Xbox division before Phil? Come on X, the original Xbox team probably didn't kiss ass as good as Phil does his boss but to insinuate that the previous CEO didn't support the original Xbox team is crazy.

No, I'm implying that Nadella is doing so much better than Balmer that if he decides to put way more money in Xbox, people will say that's fine because they believe in him and his vision.

 

[B_Boss]

Are you Implying that Nadella's predecessor didn't back the Xbox division before Phil? Come on X, the original Xbox team probably didn't kiss ass as good as Phil does his boss but to insinuate that the previous CEO didn't support the original Xbox team is crazy.

Steve Ballmer didn’t support the OG Xbox team? That would be hard to believe but possible I guess lol.

Edit: read the response .

 

[Neofire]

Let's not pretend you know Xbox divisions financials. Microsoft already said that Game Pass is burning cash for this.


No, I'm implying that Nadella is doing so much better than Balmer that if he decides to put way more money in Xbox, people will say that's fine because they believe in him and his vision.

Doing much better by what mertic when it comes to the Xbox division? Burning money? Have people forgotten the financial reports for it and all of that just for a marginal gain in brand recognition because the market share they had during the 360 era is gone.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

i think he @Sycomunkee saw 100gbps from corsica article and 100GB mentioned by phil and fanboy brain took over after that.

Or, he's just trying to piece things together? How is he a fanboy in wanting to draw some correlations? If anything, you come off more as a fanboy for insisting they are for simply referencing technological products from their other divisions the Xbox team might be leveraging in theirs.

This is the kind of baseless labeling that makes next-gen speculation more difficulty than it aught to be, you can do better dude.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

Doing much better by what mertic when it comes to the Xbox division? Burning money? Have people forgotten the financial reports for it and all of that just for a marginal gain in brand recognition because the market share they had during the 360 era is gone.

I was never talking about specifically the Xbox division. I was talking about Microsoft...

 

[Neofire]

Steve Ballmer didn’t support the OG Xbox team? That would be hard to believe but possible I guess lol.

Edit: read the response .

So you want to play semantics with the meaning of the word support and backing? Well you can with someone else lol

 

[IntentionalPun]

Are you Implying that Nadella's predecessor didn't back the Xbox division before Phil? Come on X, the original Xbox team probably didn't kiss ass as good as Phil does his boss but to insinuate that the previous CEO didn't support the original Xbox team is crazy.

It doesn't really matter; Ballmer was not doing well near the XBox launch, MS board was not happy with Xbox financials, Ballmer announced he was leaving in the middle of their launch (read: he was going to be forced out anyways), etc.

There's a reason Phill Spencer has had to state that he has the backing of Nadella, it's because it was known in the financial world the Xbox division at MS was on the table for a sell-off or axing.

During the 360 era the Xbox division was told not to be a huge loss leader.. and then they had RROD. It was not a popular division for a lot of investors, despite being MS's most popular consumer hardware by far and Bill Gates' baby. They didn't do a 180 from gaming focused loss leading hardware to casual focused priced for profit hardware over the course of 2 gen's for no reason. It was because their executive team did not really believe in the original Xbox mission of focusing on hardcore gaming.

 

[icerock]

I think McCaffrey is full of shit and it's evident right from the get-go. He leans and latches way too much on Bloomberg's predictions which have been proven to be wrong address many times it's not even funny at this point. I guess he has forgotten the fact that there's one company out that mass produces both consoles and if you haven't heard of it, it's called Foxconn and i guess he hasn't yet grasped the fact that this pandemic has hampered the operation of more than a dozen assembly lines, Tsmc was affected and so was Samsung and I'm pretty sure Foxconn is not impervious to all the same things because at the end of the day the company has hundreds of employees working for it and they are humans just like us, they can get affected too. If the PS5 production will be reduced then what makes Ryan think that the Series X will be in a better position (spoiler alert: it'll likely be produced in the same capacity). Lastly the 1.33 trillion he mentioned is not the money Microsoft has pocketed, it's their net worth which is how much the entire company is valued at, people should quit latching into that number to tell how much Microsoft has, the amount they have pocketed is something along the lines of 250-300 billion. I kinda wish i could've wrote more here, but it's turning into an essay and i have better things to do.

People are extrapolating stuff from Bloomberg article which was never in there in the first place, only Bloomberg article which talks about PS5 BoM is the 1st article which came out in February. It said PS5 BoM had risen to $450 due to hike in certain key components (see DRAM). The current article was nothing but speculation on authors end, he said due to scarcity of products in addition to Sony being concerned about economy post COVID-19 has them scaling back the production. It wasn't an either/or situation, but usual suspects ignored the first part and ran with the latter. Same thing happened on price, one of the analysts who work for a financial firm suggested a retail price of $450 as manufacturers eat losses on consoles at launch. The $499-549 price figure was speculated by game-devs based on what they thought of hardware. It's like Michael Pachter hearing from game-devs on how exotic the hardware underneath is and speculate $700-800 price. It's utterly meaningless to how a manufacturer price their products. But, again you saw folks latch onto $499-549 figure. I mean the title on this very forum had 'Cost more than $500' in it.

There's no point in wasting energy to correct these folks, this cycle of cherry-picking, misquoting, and general FUD spreading will continue until launch. Maybe even beyond that, it's best not to dwell on it.

 

[chemical boy]

You can also apply everything you said to MS and XSX, and they don't have the benefit of brand perception with quality games like Sony have.

Of course, MS will have a hard time too. But for Sony the video game market is much more important than for MS. The situation has radically changed in 2 months, if the consoles cost 500 euros they will sell and many customers will lose.

 

[Darius87]

Or, he's just trying to piece things together? How is he a fanboy in wanting to draw some correlations? If anything, you come off more as a fanboy for insisting they are for simply referencing technological products from their other divisions the Xbox team might be leveraging in theirs.

This is the kind of baseless labeling that makes next-gen speculation more difficulty than it aught to be, you can do better dude.

here's quiz for you:
is @Sycomunkee right about his comment?:

Phil mentions that the developers can get 100GB instantly.

1. Yes xsex indeed can stream 100GB instantly.
2. why xsex need 16gb GDDR6 when you can have 100GB instant
3. he just wanted to draw some correlations
4. he haven't finished elementary school and can't read properly
5. he took words out of context
6. he's fanboy and i can't help himself(look at his profile if you don't believe me)

Spoiler

"5 and 6 and thicc_girls_are_teh_best are his best friend "

 

[chemical boy]

Don't agree at all. Sony just has to be competent and thyll own this up and coming gen. Sony ps is a beast in market share and ppl paying attention and the reactions alone off of a logo, controller, etc speaks volumes. Tons of ppl right now are waiting for a pre order to go up just to book one regardless of price. If it's 500, it'll sell well if it's 450 a little better but Sony is in the driver's seat. Thy don't need to go extra hard, the market loser needs to do tht and thts Microsoft.

My 600 for psv been put to the side just waitinggggg for tht Amazon pre order.

This was valid before millions of people are losing their jobs. In fact Sony have significantly lowered their sales forecasts internally.

 

[John254]

Steve Ballmer didn’t support the OG Xbox team? That would be hard to believe but possible I guess lol.

Edit: read the response .

It is known, that Terry Myerson wasn't very fond of what's Microsoft is doing in gaming space and since Xbox was "under his umbrella" it shows...

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Bigger APU
More RAM modules
Bigger memory bus
2 PCBs
More SSD NAND modules

I believe the only discussable point that Xbox is cheaper than PS5 is SSD but that is discussable because the most expensive part of SSD, NAND modules, is in bigger quantity on Xbox.

APU, Memory, PCB are all expensive on Xbox.

I still believes Xbox cost is around $70-90 more expensive than PS5 costs.

Early Bloomberg BOM suggested $450 for PS5 and $470-520 for XSX. I can see what does that mean according to your points.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Customized does not determine price. The amount of space the chip takes on a silicon wafer determines price, probably much smaller than zen in terms of total package. The bulk of the cost of the SSD went to designing the controller. The cost of of manufacturing on a given node which I suspect is 28nm, is known fixed price. They use 12 slow nand chips across 12 channels to achieve the higher bandwidth. In contrast a standard SSD which has 4 channels has to use faster nand chips which cost more.

If you are designing your own, you only have to pay for manufacturing per wafer, if you are licensing someone else's design, you have to pay for manufacturing as well as licensing cost per chip. If you are buying a whole chip, you are paying for manufacturing as well as their profit per chip.

I think Sony might have done some from their part, as they already make memory cards and so and it's a hardware company first and software second. Really dense post, thanks, and keep them coming!

When you call 5-6 million limited.... When the PS4 released theyr where 7 million consoles available so, its not that bad...

Yup, you can say it's bad in Sony's standards. You know, they're not comparing themselves to others in that field (sales).

Back from the dead, happy for you to be here Bo-Hazem boy! ❤❤❤❤

Thank you, bro! It was just a game.

Credit: CrustyBritches

 

[saintjules]

 

[Tamy]

Sure...Color me doubtful regarding these results. This would be the biggest surprise in the history of gaming consoles.

wow! and that's even if PS5 is $399..

Imagine XSX being $399 and PS5 being $499. This would destroy the PS5, like PS4 destroyed Xbox One lol

 

[Tiago07]

Is the PS5's secret sauce the SSD or their customized APU ?

Only my doubt here.

 

[Imtjnotu]

wow! and that's even if PS5 is $399..

Imagine XSX being $399 and PS5 being $499. This would destroy the PS5, like PS4 destroyed Xbox One lol

Not a fucking chance either of them are $399

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Hello all, hope everyone is doing well.

 

[Rusco Da Vino]

What do you guys think?

I think that some people are losing a bit of perspective here by dismissing all the "info" you can gather from the tweets and not taking into an account the source.

The guy is clearly biased but he is not just a random. He has direct line with Phil Spencer.

My interpretation

I think that this guy is using the Bloomberg article as an excuse to launch a subterfuge message (in form of reasoning) about Microsoft's real intention of undercutting Sony on price. Everything else is disposable, just a wild speculation.

Spoiler

Otherwise, the guy just burned all his credibility (and IGN too).

 

[Captain Hero]

Not a fucking chance either of them are $399

my guess would be $499

 

[Captain Hero]

Hello all, hope everyone is doing well.

hey man ..all good , how about you ?

 

[mckmas8808]

What do you guys think?

1. I thought MS said they weren't competing against Sony and Nintendo. So why would they do this?
2. I thought MS said they were competing with Amazon and Google Stadia. Why would MS as a corporation lose money on console HW sales when they are "REALLY" competing in the server gaming wars?
3. After 20 years, MS has never shown a true interest in using their huge war chest of money to "MAKE" the Xbox brand win any generation. So why now?
4. What evidence do we have that Sony's relative silence has hurt them at all when it pertains to what they can/can't sell next-gen?
5. How has MS talking earlier and more often about their next-gen console made them more likely to sell more next-gen consoles in countries "NOT" named USA, Canada, Mexico, and the United Kingdom?

 

[ethomaz]

1. I thought MS said they weren't competing against Sony and Nintendo. So why would they do this?
2. I thought MS said they were competing with Amazon and Google Stadia. Why would MS as a corporation lose money on console HW sales when they are "REALLY" competing in the server gaming wars?
3. After 20 years, MS has never shown a true interest in using their huge war chest of money to "MAKE" the Xbox brand win any generation. So why now?
4. What evidence do we have that Sony's relative silence has hurt them at all when it pertains to what they can/can't sell next-gen?
5. How has MS talking earlier and more often about their next-gen console made them more likely to sell more next-gen consoles in countries "NOT" named USA, Canada, Mexico, and the United Kingdom?

Well they are already losing money on Gamepass so why not lose a bit more on console hardware.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

Well they are already losing money on Gamepass so why not lose a bit more on console hardware.

How do you know they are losing money on Game Pass?