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[DF] PS5’s Backwards Compatibility: Which games could see the biggest boost?
- Thread starter JareBear: Remastered
- Start date
LemmingWithaParachute
Banned
And what search term or word am i suppose to use here, "butthurt"?
GHG
Member
The guy went crying to the mods on Resetera of all places when he couldn't handle the heat. He's happy to dish out bullshit but when it comes back his way he turns into a pansy.
I've said it before but he should stick to PC topics, that's his area of expertise and that's why DF hired him in the first place. I actually appreciate some of his input in that area (PC game settings videos in particular). John and Rich are great and have everything else more than covered. They don't need a wannabe Mr know it all stinking up the place.
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LemmingWithaParachute
Banned
Fake
Member
Alex was spotted on Xbox discord shiting PS5 news info. When people point that out with screnshots (use the search on the next gen thread leak), he got mad and insult everyone and call era trash.
GHG
Member
Go for your life:
PlayStation 5 System Architecture Deep Dive |OT| Secret Agent Cerny
Microsoft heads have historically responded to and promoted people like Timdog and MisterXMedia, who basically thrive on spreading fanboy sensationalism or FUD. We even had Microsoft's senior director of product planning come onto the last forum and downplay the performance deficit between the...
www.resetera.com
Fake
Member
Sigh... at point of somehow I get called 'John hater' because I made one single critic about his video.
Is this a possibility? Maybe software emulation.
GHG
Member
Nothing of the sort, well not that I've heard of. If anything he's more likely to have been involved in coordinated misinformation campaigns going in the opposite direction based on the discord chat logs that were going around a few weeks ago.
Everyone has their biases and that's fine (rich is more biased towards Xbox, John is more favourable towards Playstation) but this guy tries to claim that he's 100% unbiased and is an innocent bystander because he's a PC guy. If that's the case then what's he doing joining and participating in a toxic Xbox only discord group?
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LemmingWithaParachute
Banned
Go for your life:
PlayStation 5 System Architecture Deep Dive |OT| Secret Agent Cerny
Microsoft heads have historically responded to and promoted people like Timdog and MisterXMedia, who basically thrive on spreading fanboy sensationalism or FUD. We even had Microsoft's senior director of product planning come onto the last forum and downplay the performance deficit between the...
The summery of that thread is: Reset NPCs didnt like that Dictator/Alex dared question rumors or ideas of how SSDs would effect open world games.
What a pathetic pack of unstable lunatics.
They took everything he said out of context and then ran with some sort of false narrative of anti sony bullshit, when in reality, he pointed out the claims by sony were counter to how current and past open world games stream content.
Considering not even PCs most advanced titles have leveraged the SSD the way sony claims its going to (which would render third party open world titles obsolete if this tech is limited to Sony. No Ubisoft games on Xbox or PC? Hardly), Its only logical to assume Sony is simply marketing what they have vs trying to go toe to toe with raw power (tflops).
LMAO. What a pack of losers.
This a is toy we're talking about. Coordinated misinformation campaigns...please.
The same forum of people who claimed racism in Crash Racing....harassed the devs of The Last Night, cry of transphobia and misogyny at the drop of a fedora... these are the last people who've any business accusing anyone else of waging a misinformation campaign.
He may very will be bias towards another platform, but for all the wrongs in this indstry done by reset types, game "journo" and virtue signalling devs, questioning the SSD is at the bottom of the pile of misdeeds.
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Saber
Gold Member
I think not fair to point out like that because that sound as a massive generalization. You can look up for my posts, I don't go telling he sucks everytime a video of him appears. I just ignore and move on. And its a nice way to let people openly tell their dislikes of DF, because in the end no one likes the same thing. I respect you if you like him as much as anybody who like him. And I respect Alex as well, even though I don't like his videos.
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LemmingWithaParachute
Banned
How does this fall under like or dislike?
Heres an opinion, agree or disagree. Here are facts, like or dislike.
Why attack the messenger?
What is wrong with you people? Fucking autobots roll-lol out.
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Fake
Member
Go for your life:
PlayStation 5 System Architecture Deep Dive |OT| Secret Agent Cerny
Microsoft heads have historically responded to and promoted people like Timdog and MisterXMedia, who basically thrive on spreading fanboy sensationalism or FUD. We even had Microsoft's senior director of product planning come onto the last forum and downplay the performance deficit between the...
Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD
They're on lockdown and searching desetera post from that thread Stixitnu Holy shit lol what did yall do? At least the last 7 pages would explain why i was seemingly removed from what i assume was the linked discord.
SonGoku
Member
Yeah a mix of hw and sw where they target specific games in the emulator, kinda like how MS handles 360 emulation
Not getting my hopes up though
LemmingWithaParachute
Banned
Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD
They're on lockdown and searching desetera post from that thread Stixitnu Holy shit lol what did yall do? At least the last 7 pages would explain why i was seemingly removed from what i assume was the linked discord.www.neogaf.com
Thats not helping your cause.
What assertions am I suppose to decipher from this crime scene?
Fake
Member
I rather prefer they opt to used the Microsoft approach about BC.
Thats not helping your cause.
What assertions am I suppose to decipher from this crime scene?
I don't posted a picture, I posted a thread. Read the thread.
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GHG
Member
The thing is, they can't. Most games are based around consoles and the vast majority of PC only games target people who still use mechanical harddrives.
There should be a shift next gen because both consoles have fast SSD's so we will start seeing SSD's being a requirement for next gen only titles that get ported to PC. That then drives SSD adoption which then drives the baseline requirements up.
It's the same way that we will see almost all PC titles start to have some features that require hardware ray tracing to be present in order to enable them. It would be easy for people to say "it won't make a difference" when it's just a handful of titles where it's been poorly implemented for the most part but when games start being designed around these features from the start we will see some impressive stuff. Right now it's just an add on feature to an existing game that was made without ray tracing in mind for pretty much all games featuring the technology.
The idea that the SSD's will only make a difference as far as load times are concerned is the biggest misconception being thrown around.
Certain current gen PC open world titles chug when run on a mechanical hard drive (even skyrim ffs), it doesn't take a genius to see how these things being standard will start to have a huge impact on things like draw distance and texture streaming considerations. If developers no longer have to worry as much about those things then what else does that free them up to do? It's exciting times for everyone but yet on one side you have people playing down TF's and Ray tracing hardware units and on the other side there are idiots down playing SSD's.
If I sat here and was all like "well I've had SSD's in my PC since 2013 and I've seen no difference" then yes, please feel free to call me a short sighted idiot.
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GHG
Member
Yeh, tell that to the people who are going out of their way to do that shit then. Report spamming, racism, countless alt accounts. All in the name of console wars.
LemmingWithaParachute
Banned
The SSD can be as fast as it wants, but its only the storage of assets. If the CPU, GPU and Ram along with a games general optimization are not up to scratch, it doesn't matter how fast the SSD is. Thats why Alex mentioned the cloud, as a reference to the bull that MS pulled with Crackdown 3 and the cloud, which might i add, that sony fans had no issue tearing apart and rightly so.
When theyre protected by not only mods of a gaming forum, but social media as a whole? Yeah, ill get right on it.
Seriously, you people treat this shit like something from CSI or Midsomer Murders and yet i find myself strangely transfixed by it all. Holy fuck.
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GHG
Member
There's a big difference between something being pulled over the Internet and being limited on a connection by connection basis to something that depends only on the bandwidth on a piece of hardware which will be identical across all the consoles that are manufactured.
This is another thing I can't understand, why is it being compared to the "power of the cloud" ? It's not even close.
Microsoft: Cloud makes Xbox One four times more powerful | MCV/DEVELOP
But tech experts question validity of claims in face of latency and bandwidth restrictions
www.mcvuk.com
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GHG
Member
Don't you don't need to go far, a lot of them post right here on this very forum.
Fortunately they are not protected here and the mods see right through their bullshit most of the time.
LemmingWithaParachute
Banned
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
It also uses dynamic rez, right?
Would be awesome to see it in native 4k and at least capped/locked 30 if possible
Fake
Member
I guess not. If I watched this video right, 900p. Maybe this game get the same sittuation as Bloodborne, maybe the engine is the problem, because Last Guardian was target as a PS3 game, right? Then, after the sucess of PS4 they decide to 'port' (aka ressurect the code) for PS4.
edit: Is 1920x1080
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SonGoku
Member
Is this enough context?
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LemmingWithaParachute
Banned
Is this enough context?
Nothing against the guy btw, he just needs to be less stuck up and own up to it when his hot takes ends up missing the mark
You can have the fastest, biggest, bestest, badest SSD around, but if the cpu, ram, gpu cant keep up, then it doesnt matter. That is the point Alex is making. Which is also what was said about the cloud and then proven to be true. You can stream and store assets as well as you like, but it means nothing to the process of processing data and rendering it.
Bottlenecks.
That last paragraph of Dictators, hes highlighting the issues that Id tech 5 had with RAGE and megatexture/prebaked shadows and lighting. John Carmack dropped it for a reason. It takes massive amounts of storage and thats why RAGE had low res textures. Your not streaming data into the world using assets grabbed from a texture bank, instead, youre rendering an entire scene as it was designed by a concept artist. Everything little detail rendered perfectly for that one scene with nothing reused from else where..
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Saber
Gold Member
Is this enough context?
Nothing against the guy btw, he just needs to be less stuck up and own up to it when his hot takes ends up missing the mark
Seems like a bit of over reaction. But I know some discussions can end up heating, even more when he is accused of something. In those cases is better not engage. Hes not wrong about Resetera though, but he better watch out what he says in front of nazi mods.
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SonGoku
Member
I didn't see him making that point anywhere, and on the topic of PS5 was specifically designed to output 8-9GB/s typically. The best example given by Cerny was that instead of caching data in ram for the next 30 seconds of gameplay they only need to cache data for the next one second of gameplay enabling them to use most of the memory for what's actually beeing rendered. The other example was that assets could be streamed on the fly as you turn around
Anyways we are going offtopic, if you are interested feel free to jump in the next gen thread
I agree that place is trash but not because they called him out for saying something and backtracking without acknowledging it. That's just holding people accountable for the shit they say
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thismeinteil
Member
Then, I guess MS is, too. Before they claimed it would be basically 100% B/C, only to change their official stance to similar wording that Sony used. Rich is just spreading more FUD.
Endless Fluff
Banned
So, they're pretty much talking about the obvious. Games with 60fps cap (or "unlocked framerate") will most likely run at 60 if the engine isn't pure dogshit and dynamic res games will top out at their max res.
It's kinda too bad that we have some games with piss poor CBR/reconstruction implementation, like RDR2, so I really hope that some Devs patch their games. I can also see GAAS titles getting patched to bring them up to PC Ultra spec. Especially wildly popular ones like GTA5 (even though they never bothered with an enhanced patch) or Rainbow Six Siege. I can also see CDPR patching Witcher 3 for next gen, after they're done with Cyberpunk.
I'm really looking forward to BC comparisons between PS5 and XSX.
It's kinda too bad that we have some games with piss poor CBR/reconstruction implementation, like RDR2, so I really hope that some Devs patch their games. I can also see GAAS titles getting patched to bring them up to PC Ultra spec. Especially wildly popular ones like GTA5 (even though they never bothered with an enhanced patch) or Rainbow Six Siege. I can also see CDPR patching Witcher 3 for next gen, after they're done with Cyberpunk.
I'm really looking forward to BC comparisons between PS5 and XSX.
GHG
Member
Don't disagree with that at all there's always a limiting factor in all systems. The reality is that we won't know both how bad those bottlenecks might be and how they might be overcome/mitigated until we start seeing games being analysed on next gen hardware.
At least we are looking at purely hardware bottlenecks this time around and not some theoretical pie in the sky mumbo jumbo that will never come to pass.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
That's not true.
MS has said BC is good to go with Xbox One and existing BC games with OG and 360. Will there be a few odd ball games that don't work? Maybe, but it sounds like at least 99% of games will be BC.
Sony has been all over the place. Cerny only mentioned something like the top 100 "time played" games will be BC at launch, and then someone else had to chime in a day or two later saying their goal is 4000 games, but are still in test mode. So when PS5 launches, who knows how many of those 4000 games will be accessible.
thelastword
Banned
The whole premise of the video was to show "the limitations of BC on a PS5", just that, the limitations... Well Well, so much optimism by a gaming channel.....
. Because I can't think of the wide possibilities of how a 10.23TF console with a super fast SSD is going to improve games made on 1.84TF with mechanical drives..... I have to make an entire video to re-iterate how confused I am on PS5's BC, yet making sure I drop in the ad-line.... "Microsoft has been doing this for years and Sony has to play catch up".....
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Face-Off: The Last Guardian
After nine years, The Last Guardian is finally complete. It's a game we can all now experience for ourselves, after man…
www.eurogamer.net
JimboJones
Member
Difference is we already know how MS handles backward compatibility, we have seen there efforts and how they have been handling it with their current consoles, even if it's not 100% it's most likely gonna be pretty well supported going by their past actions. The last time Sony hasn't really concentrated on backwards compatibility on home consoles since they cut it out from the PS3 and they really didn't care all that much about it this gen apart from PSNow and a few PS2 titles here and there.
Now it could be when PS5 releases we have thousands of games supported out the gate and lots of games have increases in resolution and framrate no one saying that's not a possibility, Sony's wording has just been a bit weird but (as mentioned in the video) Sony where quite restrained in touting their boost mode in PS4 which worked well with lots of titles so it could just be the same here. We don't know, it's speculation with the current information we have and looking at past actions.
Fake
Member
Thx. Gonna edit my post. Base is native 1080p.Face-Off: The Last Guardian
After nine years, The Last Guardian is finally complete. It's a game we can all now experience for ourselves, after man…
Shmunter
Member
Ssd has nothing to do with cpu or GPU catching up. An ssd cannot saturate those.
It’s simply about less ram being reserved for cache and more ram being available for the visible scene. The faster you can load assets, the less buffering you need, the more available ram you have for quality assets.
E.g.
current gen: Scene 20% Buffer 80%
Next gen : Scene 90% Buffer 10%
Made up numbers to illustrate the point.
Tamy
Banned
well, he pointed some thins out about the power difference of ps5 and xsx, people didn't like his answer.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I think it is the Discord organised forum trolls bit people have an issue with.
Kagey K
Banned
For first party games it might be a possibility, but they won’t be able to do it for 3rd party games without some sort of deal being struck.
turtlepowa
Banned
The Order without bars?
Armorian
Banned
They didn't do it when Pro launched so I doubt they would four years later. Removing atrocious CA and fixing frame pacing should be possible on standard PS4, locking framerate to stable 30 fps (with FP fix) in 1440p with TAA could be easily done on Pro. Sony/From just didn't bother.
FS only game that has good performance on consoles is DS2 on PS4, so next gen version of Elden Ring could be quite good (this gen not so much, maybe on X1X).
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
This, it was so black and white
Just by the Backwards Compatibility image alone you get an idea how it works.
Maybe they could of spelled it out for everyone clearer.
But I can't see how you can understand what ray tracing is but get confused by this?
Blood Borne
Member
Fixed that for you.
BC is inconsequential
Hawking Radiation
Member
Native 4K with Ultra settings and solid framerates.
There should be no excuses. I want 60FPS in GT Sport as well.
There should be no excuses. I want 60FPS in GT Sport as well.