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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Ptarmiganx2

Ptarmiganx2

Member
sircaw said:
I am really looking forward to Horizon zero dawn 2, the first game was good but was far from perfect.
Saying that, its the engine they used that i really liked, the scale, the graphics, how smooth it felt, were just incredible. In some ways i think Gorilla Games is more of a tech studio than a games studio, That probably sounds abit unfair on them, they are very talented but that's the game, the engine that i want to see the most.
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It was pretty damn close to perfect. The best game of the generation in my opinion.
 
D

DaMonsta

Member
Bonsaibäumchen said:
Still the difference is a tech guy who actually designs the goddamn machine and is a fucking nerd. The other one is a salesman.

I can connect to the first one and hate the second one. I'd pay Cerny therefore more credibilty. Especially considering how hes a 'freelancer' who doesn't have to sell anything.

Don't get me wrong I've seen distasteful and cringeworthy stuff/people on both sides.
But if I have to compare those 2 I know who i'd root for. 🤷‍♂️
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Phil is a software developer by trade and has held all types of jobs throughout the industry.

If he is just a “salesman” then so is Cerney at this point
 
B

BattleScar

Member
X-Fighter said:
That's nothing compared to Cerny's cult following
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You say this, but the number of times I've seen comments from people to the effect of:

"Microsoft is a $1 Trillion dollar company, they can make a powerful console and take a huge loss and choke Sony out of the market. Phil says he has the backing of the board"

Which is a very much illegal business practice called "predatory pricing"

The number of times since Phil Spencer took leadership of Xbox, that I've seen "Phil's really turned this around" or "I'm really loving what Microsoft is doing here, kudos to Phil". The worshipping of an executive at a corporation who doesn't give two shits about anything other than how much cash they can extract from your wallets via however many different subscription services they can throw at you, is so intense at times it borders on astroturfing.

Cerny is hyped up twice a generation. People also seem to worship him to an almost frightening degree, but as it has been said before, it happens twice a generation. Then Cerny disappears to his console development chamber only to reappear at the launch of the next console. Once again to an almost creepy level of worship - but at least there is less of it.
 
Bonsaibäumchen

Bonsaibäumchen

Member
VanSiriusGabriel said:
I have no idea why GP can't go to 10 to 20 millions, but MS needs:
A: to sell at least double the consoles, good luck.
B: bring the value of the service far higher, good luck also.
Or a combination of the two.
Despite this, GP didn't boost Xbox sells nor boosted software revenues from it, in fact they continued to drop(as far as I know), which should be indicative of how much losses and income the GP can grant, even if it may not be reliable.
Problem is, long term effects are unknown. GP is sustainable because MS needs to, if somehow MS crush Sony like with PS3 I don't expect them to further go suicide mode.
Also, they would start again with user base due to SeX, and that's probably why they want to keep One as long as possible, because with that they keep GP subscriptions.
If my theory is correct, GP already "forced" Microsoft to limit its native next gen output.
But in general I hope it doesn't become a standard service for videogames, because as long as the lesser party use it that's fine, what if Sony and Nintendo got their versions with the same approach? Do you see all that third and first parties for 5 dollars\month for all platforms? I don't find it realistic.
I think is difficult to talk about GP because I see it as a very unstable service, similar to a bubble ready to explode if ever it gets big enough. I suppose it needs just a very narrow sweet spot to work without messing things up.
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Actually a few weeks ago I thought about something in this regard. See we have to pay Subscriptions anyways to use the online services.

Now if you think about consoles and how they have limited ressources for an extensive perios of time you might consider to upgrade that hardware more often without changing the arcitecture too much.

So I was thinking a console-gen has a lifespan of 5-8 years. Lets say they sell for 500€£$ that would be 5 years in the worst case. 500/5/12 makes about 8,33€£$ a Month.

So I thought what if the console company would say well here we have our top tier Subscription, it costs 10-15€£$ more then the normal one _but_ you get a game more each month AND if you keep that subscription for 5 years straight, you'll get our next-gen / upgraded version shipped for free. ( or exchange your current one with an upgraded one )

At least _I_would really like that idea.
 
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Neo Blaster

Neo Blaster

Member
X-Fighter said:
What does it matter how much Cerny was in the picture? That's not his role. It was about the cult following that in case of Cerny is almost at Steve Jobs level. He can do nothing wrong, I've seen people calling him a god on here... I'm not saying Spencer doesn't have this, he has. That's typical human beings that try to connect a face to a brand, and since they love the brand they are going to love the face. My point was mostly that this goes for both brands there are faces that people just hype up too much, and that it's definitely not only Spencer that has this.
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He's the lead architect and is supposed to talk about technical details, how isn't that his role? Totally different than Jobs and Phil, who are the PR faces for their respective companies.
 
sircaw

sircaw

Banned
Ptarmiganx2 said:
It was pretty damn close to perfect. The best game of the generation in my opinion.
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I loved it, however the skill trees were not as good as i had hoped, also some of the human settlements were abit lacklustre, especially the fighting.

I would of preferred a quest line where you had to gather personal parts from different dinosaurs for the purpose of designing , creating your own mount., You could choose different components, to specialise your mount, choosing a would make it run faster, option b jump further/higher/ option c aide you more in battle etc

I also wished they had more varieties of robots to do with insects, imagine a nest full of silver army ants or mechanical spiders or a nest of wasps at the top of giant tree, you need an item next to the nest and have to fight those wasps jumping from branch to branch.

So many fantastic things they will be able to do, i so look forward to the second game,
 
D

Deleted member 775630

Unconfirmed Member
Neo Blaster said:
He's the lead architect and is supposed to talk about technical details, how isn't that his role? Totally different than Jobs and Phil, who are the PR faces for their respective companies.
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Yeah that's what I'm saying. It's not Cerny's role to be the goto person to discuss Playstation during a whole generation. But if you currently had to put a face on the PlayStation division, wouldn't you say it's Cerny? Even though he's only the lead architect.
 
DeepEnigma

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
X-Fighter said:
Yeah that's what I'm saying. It's not Cerny's role to be the goto person to discuss Playstation during a whole generation. But if you currently had to put a face on the PlayStation division, wouldn't you say it's Cerny? Even though he's only the lead architect.
Click to expand...

Nah, it’s Shu.

iu
 
Radical_3d

Radical_3d

Member
scie said:
So, do you guys think we will receive some sort of spec bumb around E3 time? Or is it very unlikely for the new consoles? Remember like PS4 getting 8 gigs of RAM and the xbox one got a slight bumb in GPU frequency. But it seems for me that both consoles revealed their general specs already. I don´t think they´ll go like "we told you 16gigs of RAM, but surprise we have 24". Or do you think even an increase in frequency for CPU and GPU will be done? Even though they are already officially revealed.
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Sony can’t to this without going crazy and go with 32, which they aren’t going to do. MS should do it.
DeepEnigma said:
Nah, it’s Shu.

iu
Click to expand...
He no longer is in charge of SCI.
qnerd1gayaiyq8q4g6u5.gif
 
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Radical_3d

Radical_3d

Member
DeepEnigma said:
You’re gonna have to break down why it’s able to on one system and not the other, since you seem privy to the memory config on both, where no one else is.
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Well from what I’ve read here the bus disposition in SX seems prepared to a 24GB configuration but at some point they decided to go 16GB and that’s why there is that odd combination of chips with different capacities.
 
Tiago07

Tiago07

Member
Aceofspades said:
Teraflops is a legit way to measure theoretical performance of a GPU especially among cards of the same architecture. Its as important now as it was 10 years ago. People now is not discrediting the TF measurement itself, they are discrediting how minimal the difference between PS5 and Xbox actually is. 18% really small especially when we have games pushing 4K these days.

I understand bringing TF if we had Xbox pushing double that of PS5, but that simply is not the case. This gen we had 40% GPU power with almost 300% Ram BW to PS4. Next gen its only 18% GPU to X and 30% Ram BW. And remember last gen PS4 and Xbox One were called TWINS!!

We still have lots of unknowns like the performance of RT and Audio chips inside the consoles but generally the expectations are PS5 will have more capable Audio Engine. Series X might have better RT due to more CU units (although we still don't know how PS5 high clocks can affect RT)

Next gen we witness the consoles move from traditional HDD which bogged down the medium for so long to a blazing fast SSDs and here we have a clear advantage for PS5, which explains the overwhelmingly positive response from devs to PS5 design. A seriously fast SSD at 5.5GB/s a whooping 130% increase over Series X drive (which is already fast)

Looking at all these point, we see that specs wise PS5 and Series X is two capable beasts and really close in power like never we have seen before.
Click to expand...

Teraflops can be a good reference about GPU power in the same architecture, BUT they don't increase GPU graphics (but can help in some ways that a ~1.8TF difference don't make a absurd/notable advantage).

Teraflops is a float point operation, and the games uses when we do a thing that cannot be previously calculated ( like uses a granade in a game, the game doesn't know if we will use, so we don't have data about it, so Teraflops come).

Why more powerful GPUs in the same architecture have more Teraflops ? Because they have more Compute Units ( Teraflops = CUs*64*2*Clock).

So the gap between PS5 and SeX, could be less than 18%, if we anlyses things like Pixel rate, Texture Rate and other things.
 
DeepEnigma

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Radical_3d said:
Well from what I’ve read here the bus disposition in SX seems prepared to a 24GB configuration but at some point they decided to go 16GB and that’s why there is that odd combination of chips with different capacities.
Click to expand...

I just think Sony’s method or route is making it so they can fill and scrub the Ram at a faster rate. A closer to happy medium of cost and speed efficiency.
 
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xool

xool

Member
Radical_3d said:
The memory configuration of the SX allows to jump to 24GB pretty easily.
Click to expand...
You mean 20GB - it's got 10 "channels", but yeah ..

..well maybe assuming the hardware can be reconfigured for a different distribution of 2GB and 1GB modules (idk if that's like a BIOS thing or something.. )
 
Sosokrates

Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
Neo Blaster said:
Cerny is not a PR suit like Phil, Larry and Aaron. During this generation, we heard from him at the beginning for those technical briefings, then other Sony representatives took over, like Tretton, House, Boyes, Yoshida and Layden. At most, we had very interesting technical interviews and presentations like 'Road to PS4' after launch. And just to make it clear, Cerny isn't even a Sony employee.
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Lol cerny does put on his smoke and mirror show when presenting the ps4 pro and PS5, while he wont necessarily lie he somewhat bends the truth to give the best possible impression, cerny would not last very long at sony if he was completely honest about there hardware.

Im not saying he does this any more then Phil, in a way cerny is better at it because he so articulate and knowledgeable about technology its easier for him to lead the laymens opinion.
 
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Roronoa Zoro

Roronoa Zoro

Gold Member
Sosokrates said:
Lol cerny does put on his smoke and mirror show when presenting the ps4 pro and PS5, while he wont necessarily lie he somewhat bends the truth to give the best possible impression, cerny would not last very long at sony if he was completely honest about there hardware.

Im not saying he does this any more then Phil, in a way cerny is better at it because he so articulate and knowledgeable about technology its easier for him to lead the laymens opinion.
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It's easier to mislead people by oversimplifying and focusing on certain areas you're better at like bigger TF than it is by explaining the tech. One is informative the other is spin. Cerny lets people make their own conclusions but he doesn't mislead
 
Neo Blaster

Neo Blaster

Member
X-Fighter said:
Yeah that's what I'm saying. It's not Cerny's role to be the goto person to discuss Playstation during a whole generation. But if you currently had to put a face on the PlayStation division, wouldn't you say it's Cerny? Even though he's only the lead architect.
Click to expand...
Just like I said before, this is the time for technical stuff right before game reveals, of course he is the one to step in. But after games are shown, he's back to the backstage and Sony PR suits take over. The difference is that Xbox has PR suits like Phil, Larry and Aaron all the time.
 
PaintTinJr

PaintTinJr

Member
Roronoa Zoro said:
... Cerny lets people make their own conclusions but he doesn't mislead
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Agreed, and is what I’ve come to expect from someone that was designing and making the Marble Madness Atari Arcade game in 1984 - which I will always see as the brilliant game that inspired the peerless Super Monkeyball. It is mad to think he was doing stellar work like that back then and still pushing the industry forward 36 years on at the highest level. I loved the arcade version and was blown away by the level editor that came with the ZX 48k version I played as a kid. Full respect from me.
 
Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
xool said:
It's $10 a month, (ignoring subsidized deals) - so $120 a year - which is more than most people would have spent on the games on the service (most are sub $10 by the time they get on it, and still don't sell) .. which is how it works. ..and nowadays we get one Halo/Gears etc every 5 years .. so that's just gravy.

But yeah - I expect filler too. Pay for what you want works better imo.
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This might sound strange but bear with me:

Gamepass: Feels "Communist", the doctor (AAA studio) gets nearly the same as the shop cashier (with no disrespect to any of these jobs, only commonsense). The doctor will feel it's unfair and might migrate to another country. The shop cashier will be more than happy as he/she is getting way more money than what would be by his/her own (indies). Indies will get more chance to make better games, AAA studios will degrade.

Buying games at full price: Feels "Capitalist", The best studios (celebrities) will draw more money, will give them room for better games later. Indies (working-class) need to push harder to get the attention, but expenses will always be overwhelming. AAA studios will thrive, indies will stay small most of the time or migrate to bigger companies/studios.

Avoided putting any example images so they don't get misinterpreted.
 
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CrysisFreak

CrysisFreak

Banned
Bo_Hazem said:
This might sound strange but bear with me:

Gamepass: Feels "Communist", the doctor (AAA studio) gets nearly the same as the shop cashier (with no disrespect to any of these jobs, only commonsense). The doctor will feel it's unfair and might migrate to another country. The shop cashier will be more than happy as he/she is getting way more money than what would be by his/her own (indies). Indies will get more chance to make better games, AAA studios will degrade.

Buying games at full price: Feels "Capitalist", The best studios (celebrity) will draw more money, will give them room for better games later. Indies (working-class) need to push harder to get the attention, but expenses will always be overwhelming. AAA studios will thrive, indies will stay small most of the time or migrate to bigger companies/studios.

Avoided putting any example images so they don't get misinterpreted.
Click to expand...
It does sound strange, dunno if it has any merit lol. Interesting thought though.
I mean at the end of the day GamePass is not transparent. We don't know who gets what and when and how. So we can't really say.
Just looking at it, don't look to me like it's sustainable, even remotely. But at the same time it's swell for the customers?
I personally don't care, I'm just on PlayStation and pay full price for the games that I really want (a lot of them lol) and hop on some rational sales for everything else.
I get my investment back 10 fold through entertainment.
Oh yeah I tried PSNow it's pretty rad, just how many games you're offered there to stream, playing PS3 games on PS4 via Now is cool, Asura's wrath alone is worth it.
Not that expensive either really, the only thing that's missing for the ones who want it to be their main source of vidya is day one Sony blockbusters on it (and maybe their internet speed).
Conclusively I just want to say let them all do what they want with their streaming, let's just hope that Stadia dies and Papa Bezos's project fails too haha.
 
Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
CrysisFreak said:
It does sound strange, dunno if it has any merit lol. Interesting thought though.
I mean at the end of the day GamePass is not transparent. We don't know who gets what and when and how. So we can't really say.
Just looking at it, don't look to me like it's sustainable, even remotely. But at the same time it's swell for the customers?
I personally don't care, I'm just on PlayStation and pay full price for the games that I really want (a lot of them lol) and hop on some rational sales for everything else.
I get my investment back 10 fold through entertainment.
Oh yeah I tried PSNow it's pretty rad, just how many games you're offered there to stream, playing PS3 games on PS4 via Now is cool, Asura's wrath alone is worth it.
Not that expensive either really, the only thing that's missing for the ones who want it to be their main source of vidya is day one Sony blockbusters on it (and maybe their internet speed).
Conclusively I just want to say let them all do what they want with their streaming, let's just hope that Stadia dies and Papa Bezos's project fails too haha.
Click to expand...

Wanted to try PS Now, problem is all the interesting games I have already bought them. 95% of my games are preorder. Used to always preorder the game with the seasonpass, only like last year started to be more sensible:messenger_grinning_sweat:

Netflix is considering adding ads as they think they're losing money. Could we expect game steaming services with ads? I think that's VERY likely to compensate for the loss.
 
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CrysisFreak

CrysisFreak

Banned
Bo_Hazem said:
Wanted to try PS Now, problem is all the interesting games I have already bought them. 95% of my games are preorder. Used to always preorder the game with the seasonpass, only like last year started to be more sensible:messenger_grinning_sweat:

Netflix is considering adding ads as they think they're losing money. Could we expect game steaming services with ads? I think that's VERY likely to compensate for the loss.
Click to expand...
If they introduce ads I'm out. Keep that mobile shit out of my vidya lol.
I only subscribe to PSNow if there's a PS3 game I want to play, really. Again, like Asura's Wrath or Motorstorm Apocalypse.
For anything PS4 I straight up buy it on the store so it is really mine (I know I know "muh just a license").
What I would like to know is what percentage of MAU on Xbox are subscribed to game pass tbh.
What is their MAU number? 40 million or so?
If only half of that is on GamePass they're not gonna spend 60 bucks on Forza/Gears/Halo. Now that does not sound cash money for Microsoft.
 
LordOfChaos

LordOfChaos

Member
I got to wondering. The entire discussion around VRR on next gen is down to the implementation in HDMI 2.1. But Freesync is actually supported over older versions, 1.2 and beyond afaik. Is the VRR implementation on next gen likely to be bound only to HDMI 2.1, or is there any word of supporting Freesync without it?

I just overlooked something for PC, I knew Nvidia supported Freesync now, and I knew Freesync was supported over HDMI now...I didn't think to consider Nvidia didn't support Freesync over HDMI. I wonder if I should just return the monitor if both next gen and my PC can't use its freesync.
 
Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
LordOfChaos said:
I got to wondering. The entire discussion around VRR on next gen is down to the implementation in HDMI 2.1. But Freesync is actually supported over older versions, 1.2 and beyond afaik. Is the VRR implementation on next gen likely to be bound only to HDMI 2.1, or is there any word of supporting Freesync without it?

I just overlooked something for PC, I knew Nvidia supported Freesync now, and I knew Freesync was supported over HDMI now...I didn't think to consider Nvidia didn't support Freesync over HDMI. I wonder if I should just return the monitor if both next gen and my PC can't use its freesync.
Click to expand...

Monitors are too tiny, and TV's don't use Display Ports, never heard of it yet. So HDMI 2.1 is getting smarter now, and those are new features to TV's in general.
 
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S

scie

Member
joe_zazen said:
there is a worry that the audience who is willing to pay upfront for a premium experience will decline to the point that big budget retail games will mostly disappear, like what happened to the pay to play games market on mobile.

It is a valid fear given what is happening to things like gta, fallout, elder scrolls as well as the fact that the biggest games in the world with the exception of minecraft and roblox are free to play (fortnite, apex, etc).

So, if MS puts their games on their sub service for free, and sony has to do the same, well then the model has changed. If I can sub for one month at $10, do we get $50-$100 million dollar single player games without f2p bullshit at that point?
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This decline is already happening in other markets like music for instance. Everybody is on the 5-10€/month Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music subscription with 320kbit/s MP3 sound. If you want better quality you can pay more for Tidal, Qobuz, Amazon Music HD, but guess what only a small portion is doing that, because the consumers want to consume the masses and not enjoy some good quality music.
Netflix is the same, I know nobody who is not sharing his Netflix account with 3 other people to cut the subscription fee. So instead of paying 16€/month for 4K, they´ll pay 4€/month each and if you want to really cheap out. You use a VPN and subscripe to Netflix in a much cheaper country. Than you are at like 1,30€/month. Also same for Disney+ account sharing is pretty normal at least within all of my friends.

And that is the problem, people want everything for less money and that sucks!
 
JerryinSoCal

JerryinSoCal

Member
DaMonsta said:
Phil is a software developer by trade and has held all types of jobs throughout the industry.

If he is just a “salesman” then so is Cerney at this point
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I wouldn't say either one is just a "salesman" but Phil's position at MS is much different than Cerny's at Sony, I don't think Phil actually had any actual input into the design of the Series X because his that's not his job, he's busy running everything and he has a team of people that do that work for him. Cerny is hands on with the design of the architecture for PlayStation consoles because that is part of his job, he's not the head of the entire PlayStation division. I'm sure Spencer sets the goals for what he's like the machine to be able to do but there is just no way someone in his position with all he has to do and who's been away from the software developer side of things for that long is actually working on the console directly.
 
F

Foamy

Unconfirmed Member
Have Sony said for certain that PS5 games will be PS5 specific discs and there will be PS5 exclusive games right out of the gate?
 
JerryinSoCal

JerryinSoCal

Member
LordOfChaos said:
This was confirmed PS5 gameplay? Seemed to get no notice

https://www.notebookcheck.net/PlayS...es-PS5-fans-with-mixed-feelings.461942.0.html
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It looks a lot better than the old version but the chromatic aberration in some scenes is way too strong, personally I hate that effect and wish every game gave us the option to turn it off. I don't know how big of a jump people were expecting for a remaster but going by the improvements to Hauer's face alone there is more work being done there than we typically see in other remasters.
 
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