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[yewles1]

Hello dear Sir.

I remember this video saying that the higher clock in the PS5 GPU will favor higher polygon counts. (timestamped)


Can you please explain this to me.

In light of the billions of triangles we've just witnessed from UE5, this made me think that Cerny really opted for the higher clock instead of more CUs to pair with the ultra-fast SSD.

I'LL answer this: GCN and RDNA architectures have a Geometry Processor which can render 4 polygons per clock, thus the higher the clock, the more the geometry potentially. Ergo, PS5 has potentially 8.92 Billion polys per second theoretical peak as opposed to XSX's 7.6 Billion. But this only takes into factor raw geometry, not other factors for visuals.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

It definitely puts Sony in a good place, in terms of partnering with the no.1 engine vendor so early on, basically ensuring the engine can take advantage of (PS5 hardware) once it's ready at the end of 2021.

This time around I'll be SO MUCH excited for indies and small titles and what they can add up to the whole gaming industry with such an insane fluidity combining PS5 and UE5! It's like Dreams in a nutshell!

Wait... What will happen with Dreams on PS5 that already makes some photorealistic stuff on PS4!

 

[HAL-01]

I'LL answer this: GCN and RDNA architectures have a Geometry Processor which can render 4 polygons per clock, thus the higher the clock, the more the geometry potentially. Ergo, PS5 has potentially 8.92 Billion polys per second theoretical peak as opposed to XSX's 7.6 Billion. But this only takes into factor raw geometry, not other factors for visuals.

Hold on. If this engine ties a triangle to every pixel, and ps5 can in theory process more triangles, would that allow ps5 to run at a higher resolution provided there are no other bottlenecks?

 

[Sinthor]

You're leaving out one important thing and that's Sampler Feedback Streaming hardware. Even if the XSX is only able to push 4.8GB/s I/O bandwidth, it can have a multiplier effect(2-3x) of between 9.6GB/s to 14.4GB/s by using SFS. That's actually the XVA's killer feature, not even BCPack. So it can stream the equivalent of what an SSD of 9.6GB/s streams(i.e the PS5) or even higher. I'm sure and hope Sony has employed some techniques for efficient texture streaming that could improve this but I highly doubt it will reach the level of XSX due to the custom hardware.

If you believe Sony doesn't also have something like SFS or indeed the same thing, I have some land I'd like to sell you. I would recommend tempering wild expectations like this until we know more and are seeing more gameplay demos, etc. Because what makes you think this UE5 engine didn't incorporate something exactly like that? Besides, you're talking about compressed assets and in this demo they clearly said these were direct imports. Not compressed textures. Textures will likely always be inferior to what was shown in UE5 today. I wouldn't pin my hopes on some magical silicon feature that you have to count on an extremely experienced hardware and console designing company just to have somehow whiffed on.

 

[B_Boss]

The WCG article is still up

Unreal Engine 5 footage ran at 1440p 30 FPS on PS5, featured no ray tracing

Today, Epic Games showed off a demo for its next-gen gaming engine, UE5.

www.windowscentral.com

I dunno why they deleted the tweet but that isn't proof of anything. No idea why people are running with that.

It reminds me of the Salehi article and it’s ensuing drama in a way.

I don’t think it had anything to do with load times but rather to demo how her hand touches the door as she passes through it since that is what was being talked about at the time.

I agree .

 

[ZeroFool]

Imagine if that game which I already forgot the name of was able to use this.

It is that FPS developed mainly by one guy that already looks great, has RT using UE4.x on XSX/PC. It has the samurai and an almost DeLorean looking car at the end if that helps...

I am only 45 people! How does this bode for when I turn 46?? Or am I 44? I better go ask Facebook.

Edit: Ironically it is called Bright Memory : Infinite

 

[Thirty7ven]

I think on the flip side if we want to predict what areas XSX could perform better in this demo would be Framerate I think? Global Illumination is pretty demanding so I could see the XSX handling it a bit easier.

 

[rntongo]

If you believe Sony doesn't also have something like SFS or indeed the same thing, I have some land I'd like to sell you. I would recommend tempering wild expectations like this until we know more and are seeing more gameplay demos, etc. Because what makes you think this UE5 engine didn't incorporate something exactly like that? Besides, you're talking about compressed assets and in this demo they clearly said these were direct imports. Not compressed textures. Textures will likely always be inferior to what was shown in UE5 today. I wouldn't pin my hopes on some magical silicon feature that you have to count on an extremely experienced hardware and console designing company just to have somehow whiffed on.

The PS5 SSD has much higher I/O throughput and could stream in twice the data in a second. But SFS can alleviate or eliminate this bottleneck. I know for a fact the PS5 doesn't have something like the SFS hardware in the XSX! MSFT installed hardware on the Xbox One X to monitor texture streaming for years. It was a whole multi-year project. Even PC GPUs using DirectX12U will only have sampler feedback and not the whole suite of features in SFS. I don't think Sony need to go in that direction anyway.

 

[FeiRR]

Mobile meth lab explosions. All the colours of the rainbow.

I remember clouds over a chemical factory back at communist times. They were beautifully red and it wasn't global illumination. But they were parallax scrolling before my eyes.

Oof

It's so weird to realize that top brass of a multibilion company are little boys comparing their dicks in a school toilet.

At least in the Vimeo version on 65” I see a little of shimmering. Some sub-pixels problems here and there.

You realize it's still a compressed video? I'd hold my judgement as to sub-pixel level of detail till you can see it live or at least from a loseless source.

Don't be DF, be smart.

From this quote in the DF article it doesn't seem like a big issue?

Virtually every UE game made this gen as gone through multiple updates of UE4 in a 3-5 year dev cycle and they say moving over to UE5 is similar to a few new versions of UE4.

They can upgrade the engine on the way, that's of course possible. They can't just throw out all the assets prepared for a totally different paradigm of game creation. I think that cross-gen vs next-gen will be visible from a mile. We're talking about what Xbox showed last week and what we saw yesterday. I bet people at Ubisoft are crunching now like there's no tomorrow. Imagine two games are released and they differ THIS MUCH in terms of image fidelity. Both are $60. Guess what happens.

The good thing is who is going to argue Tim Sweeney!.

Another Tim and his dog, you just wait.

Guys, I want it to all here take a moment and remember that Unreal engine and Epic is successful and is what it is today thanks to the tons of money from Fortnite .

Many empires have been built on drug dealing and prostitution.

Even with this engine that damned door would still be loading.

I have good news for you. I played FF7R on an SSD and doors were okay.

I do wonder if XSX is fast enough to stream 8K textures or if it will have to resort to 4K.

I've just realized that Lockhart makes no sense at all, I mean from a technical point of view, marketing is a totally different thing.

Btw serious question, the way Lumen was described at the start of the video, all natural and bouncing light, no baked light etc, do we really need RT? Isn't this Lumen natural enough?

Mirror reflections will still be blurry and low-detail. Of course there also ways to fake them but we have to wait and see what devs come up with.

"PS5 will have a huge advantage in detail, even if the resulting image is lower resolution than XSX"

That is wonderful, and I know I am failing to understand this, but isn't this where Variable Rate Shading/Mesh Shaders come in because how can you make the demo that we just saw run at 4k at 60fps assuming that PlayStation has something similar to MSFT VRS/MS?

The billions of triangles and level of detail is something that is NOT taxing on the CPU/GPU? When you are from a distance, or passing by stuff quickly why put all those billions of triangles and level of detail there in the first place? Is this where streaming when needed comes in?

I dont understand

I think their choice of resolution wasn't dictated by hardware power. It was a conscious choice of the mixture of techniques that provide the best IQ on screen. They could've easily gone 4K with less detail visible on screen but it'd probably look worse. I think the same applies to 30 vs 60 FPS. Of course there will be games in which 60 FPS is just crucial but look what format they've chosen for their presentation: a third-person view. Those generally perform very well in 30 FPS due to limited camera movement and speed (you generally stay in the back hemisphere of the screen and joypad movement isn't as fast as quick mouse turns). Did the 30 FPS flyby lack fluidity? I didn't notice that at all because animation was perfectly smooth, there was no pop-in, draw distance was phenomenal and I'm sure the whole image was heavily post-processed (motion blur, radial blur, etc.) Turn that into an FPS and you'd want 60 FPS. Turn that into VR and you'll get a terrible headache. But the beauty of this tech is that you can just choose what you need: higher res fixed, framerate fixed, more detail, more effects - now those become sliders in your engine UI. No painful rework of assets, months of time saved on optimization. We will see vast, detailed worlds and they will just get better every year as long as devs come up with new ways to feed the GPU with data. New tricks will be devised and this time it will be much faster.

You're leaving out one important thing and that's Sampler Feedback Streaming hardware. Even if the XSX is only able to push 4.8GB/s I/O bandwidth, it can have a multiplier effect(2-3x) of between 9.6GB/s to 14.4GB/s by using SFS.

Let me guess, that magic ability to compress all kind of data loselessly and on the fly comes from the power brick?

Are you assuming that it was a trick to hide loading? I’d be interested in knowing how we know there was loading. That almost sounds like the very thing Cerny and Crew we’re trying to eliminate when engineering the PS5 but I could be wrong here.

If they needed to hide loading, the demo would just freeze at the first frame. That cave had more polygons on screen than the entire PS1 library of games combined, think about that for a moment.

Unclear. Breakthroughs compared to what? The PS4? The general way of doing things previously? The XSX also does breakthrough things. Don't forget that both the XSX and PS5 are using hardware from the exact same vendor; AMD. The details may vary slightly.

They both run on electricity so they are equal!

 

[husomc]

Honestly I'm surprised by some of the spin about the Unreal Demo. It's a PS5 showcase through and through. Until the XSX comes out with something similar, the PS5 takes the win here. Truly incredible graphics.

It's like if Sony shows something amazing xbox is like we got games too. and ours are better

 

[rntongo]

It's like if Sony shows something amazing xbox is like we got games too. and ours are better

True, it's not everybody though but there are some people that are truly against Sony no matter what they show. The PS5 SSD is going to change gaming as we know it.

 

[rntongo]

Let me guess, that magic ability to compress all kind of data loselessly and on the fly comes from the power brick?

I don't know what you're talking about! I was just saying that the PS5 SSD is impressive but the SFS in the XSX GPU could enable it to use at least half the RAM the PS5 uses for textures while producing the same results. An example given by a MSFT dev would mean streaming only a 1/4 of a texture and saving 75% of the space you would have used in RAM. Look at how much of a game install(spiderman for example) is texture data and you understand how important SFS is if it can achieve such efficiency.

 

[bitbydeath]

Hold on. If this engine ties a triangle to every pixel, and ps5 can in theory process more triangles, would that allow ps5 to run at a higher resolution provided there are no other bottlenecks?

That’s where things get interesting. From my understanding XSX would have more pixels as pixels are directly related to the resolution output and with more GPU flops = more pixels BUT PS5 would have more triangles attributed to those pixels.

Triangles are also known as polygons and below is what was used for Kratos face.

Kratos, God of War
Facial Polygon Count Comparison
PlayStation 2: 1,200
PlayStation 3: 5,700
PlayStation 4: 32,000

The Polygonal Evolution of 5 Iconic PlayStation Characters

From Kratos’ stoic face to the fearsome Rathalos, developers discuss how the PS4 has unlocked new levels of detail.

blog.us.playstation.com

Meanwhile random statue in Unreal 5 demo:
33,000,000

The statue is also placed 500 times in a single room totalling to roughly 16,000,000,000.

I think it’s safe to say this is the biggest technical jump in console history.

 

[TLZ]

Sorry bud, its all been exposed already.

I suggest you come back with an alt if you want anyone to engage you in a serious manner.

How's he not permbanned yet saying crap like that?

 

[Shmunter]

Any demo that needs to be putting more than 4.8GB/s into RAM won’t be possible on XSX. The question (to which only Epic know the answer) is how many GB/s of data was being transferred into RAM during the flying sequence of this specific PS5 demo? (Assuming sequential read for simplicity)

3GB/s?
4GB/s?
4.79GB/s?
5GB/s?
6GB/s?
7GB/s?
8-9GB/s?

If it was well under 4.8GB/s then has Cerny and Sony overspent? Have they invested huge cost into something pointless? Was Sweeny wrong to call PS5 well balanced and god-tier IO? Is it overkill and pointless IO?

XSX and PS5 can both do things the other cannot. This demo was clearly made to stretch PS5, so I have doubts that the same detail at the same speed would be possible on lesser IO.
I think their Nanite technology could be scaled to match the IO, and a similar technology demo on XSX could have perhaps had less detail, but higher resolution and maybe nicer reflections on the water etc.

I’m sold on both XSX and PS5 for different complimentary reasons, but today has made me more hyped for PS5 than I have been.

Sweeny kept coming back to IO—just as all devs seem to—and PS5 IO is in a class of its own. XSX’s is mid-tier PC NVMe at PCIe 3.0 speeds.

Often missed in current discussions is Sweeney and team making references to PS5 SSD I/O latency breakthroughs. This could be a bigger deal then we are yet able to understand.

Sony didn’t throw 12 I/o lanes with priority functionality into the mix for laughs. Things are becoming more and more apparent.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Mobile meth lab explosions. All the colours of the rainbow.

Unreal Engine got it all, no worries

Spoiler

Rumors say that this is the XboxEra Discord new haven.

 

[Jerm411]

Oof

JFC this guy just doesn’t know when to be quiet....

Not surprising, as soon as that video was shown the usual suspects showed up on social media with the “look at us” tweets and posts.

They really just need to STFU and let the hardware and games do the talking.

 

[DeepEnigma]

No doubt. Cerney and all top devs including Sony first party held hands like it’s a spring fiesta in designing this console.

When we see a next gen reveal by Sony, expect to be even more blown away. They would not have agreed for epic to steal all the thunder, even if it feels like it for now.

That’s actually a really good point I didn’t think of.

 

[FeiRR]

I don't know what you're talking about! I was just saying that the PS5 SSD is impressive but the SFS in the XSX GPU could enable it to use at least half the RAM the PS5 uses for textures while producing the same results. An example given by a MSFT dev would mean streaming only a 1/4 of a texture and saving 75% of the space you would have used in RAM.

Oh, that's what you're referring to. I didn't get it at first because you were quoting I/O throughput numbers which doesn't make any sense. It's not going to increase the SSD speed but might decrease the required amount of data. Which can be done even on this generation hardware (ID7 engine does that in Doom Eternal, just to give one example). The change in next gen is that you won't even need most of those textures because the geometry they fill won't be even there. That's a feature of both consoles (to be precise: RDNA2), the difference being that PS5 will still be able to provide the needed geometry and textures roughly two times faster which directly translates into texture variety, detail and the speed at which the camera can move through the engine.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Don't worry about the native resolution. Temporal injection used here is amazing and outcome is as good as native 4k . Go play ratchet and clanck on pro Nd it uses the same technique to get to 4k . Its amazing

Hmm, don't get me wrong, but It's obviously not Native 4K from the very moment you open the video. But it's insanely impressive and won't mind such fidelity at 1080p. There are some slight artifacts at some few areas at some parts, and it's not related to Youtube compression. The added noise helped masking it overall, like Sony usually does with its first party games. The overall result is impressive and never seen a game at that level.

Just being honest here, you all know that I'm a Sony shill

 

[pixelation]

Oof

Sad, Microsoft begging for attention (as per usual when the spotlight is on Sony). They had their chance to make a big splash last week and they fucked that up. Look at the millions of views that the UE5 engine video has already, now gamers have made the connection between actual next gen graphics and PS5. Regardless of what you might think (or want to think) first impressions matter a fuck ton (just ask MS about the XBO reveal debacle).

 

[Dargor]

Often missed in current discussions is Sweeney and team making references to PS5 SSD I/O latency breakthroughs. This could be a bigger deal then we are yet able to understand.

Sony didn’t throw 12 I/o lanes with priority functionality into the mix for laughs. Things are becoming more and more apparent.

I would expect they get something substantial for basically giving away one of the easiest, most effective marketing talking points you can have. Power.

I can say with no worries that the xbox is more powerful than the ps5, but at the same time, I know that sony's engineers aren't stupid, they must have had their reasons for going for a faster SSD with lots of custom expecs instead of a stronger GPU/CPU combo.

They must feel their choice was worth it, cuz things will be rough if they dont have something they can actually show that sets their games apart.

 

[rntongo]

Oh, that's what you're referring to. I didn't get it at first because you were quoting I/O throughput numbers which doesn't make any sense. It's not going to increase the SSD speed but might decrease the required amount of data. Which can be done even on this generation hardware (ID7 engine does that in Doom Eternal, just to give one example). The change in next gen is that you won't even need most of those textures because the geometry they fill won't be even there. That's a feature of both consoles (to be precise: RDNA2), the difference being that PS5 will still be able to provide the needed geometry and textures roughly two times faster which directly translates into texture variety, detail and the speed at which the camera can move through the engine.

That’s my actual argument, the SFS hardware would enable the XSX to load textures more efficiently and cut on the RAM needed. For example 3/4 of RAM that would have been used for textures. Although the PS5 has much higher throughput, this looks like an equalizer. All other game assets are minute in size. We need to see the real world performance of SFS though.

 

[Three Jackdaws]

That’s where things get interesting. From my understanding XSX would have more pixels as pixels are directly related to the resolution output and with more GPU flops = more pixels BUT PS5 would have more triangles attributed to those pixels.

Triangles are also known as polygons and below is what was used for Kratos face.

The Polygonal Evolution of 5 Iconic PlayStation Characters

From Kratos’ stoic face to the fearsome Rathalos, developers discuss how the PS4 has unlocked new levels of detail.

blog.us.playstation.com

Meanwhile random statue in Unreal 5 demo:
33,000,000

The statue is also placed 500 times in a single room totalling to roughly 16,000,000,000.

I think it’s safe to say this is the biggest technical jump in console history.

I remember a few months ago FoxyGames tweeted that he heard from his source that Aloy’s character in HZD sequel will have more polygons than the entire number of characters/creatures/monsters put together from the previous game. I don’t know how accurate or true Foxy’s source is but it’s starting to sound very plausible ever since the UE5 tech demo.

 

[B_Boss]

If they needed to hide loading, the demo would just freeze at the first frame. That cave had more polygons on screen than the entire PS1 library of games combined, think about that for a moment.

Oh I don’t personally believe there was hidden loading. I believe that it totally contradicts what Cerny and the team achieved. They wanted to do away with that kind of loading of graphical data.

My concern is the one I originally responded to if they believe the narrow cave section of the demo was an attempt to hide loading. Perhaps it is just a cave with a narrow section lol? I haven’t come cross evidence of it being for loading. You make good points here for sure.

 

[FeiRR]

That’s where things get interesting. From my understanding XSX would have more pixels as pixels are directly related to the resolution output and with more GPU flops = more pixels BUT PS5 would have more triangles attributed to those pixels.

Triangles are also known as polygons and below is what was used for Kratos face.

The Polygonal Evolution of 5 Iconic PlayStation Characters

From Kratos’ stoic face to the fearsome Rathalos, developers discuss how the PS4 has unlocked new levels of detail.

blog.us.playstation.com

Meanwhile random statue in Unreal 5 demo:
33,000,000

The statue is also placed 500 times in a single room totalling to roughly 16,000,000,000.

I think it’s safe to say this is the biggest technical jump in console history.

The best thing is that it's not a scaled difference this time, you can forget about polygons. What happens next is, I guess, departure from traditional 3D models in favour of fractal-based geometry (at least for environments, it won't work for characters). This means infinite zooming as long as you want, just like going into a Mandelbrot fractal.

I didn't like the character model in the UE demo. I loved the animation of it, though.

Oh I don’t personally believe there was hidden loading. I believe that it totally contradicts what Cerny and the team achieved. They wanted to do away with that kind of loading of graphical data.

My concern is the one I originally responded to if they believe the narrow cave section of the demo was an attempt to hide loading. Perhaps it is just a cave with a narrow section lol? I haven’t come cross evidence of it being for loading. You make good points here for sure.

As someone already pointed out, I think they wanted to zoom up some textures to show tesselation and DoF. I noticed that DoF was awesome.

Edit: And one more reason for the narrow section: it's a modern film-like technique when the camera follows the character in a seamless motion. Without a narrow section, you'd see a glimpse of what lies further before you get there, so no element of surprise, no "wow" effect. The same can be achieved with an uphill movement. You reach the top of the hill and BAM, the beautiful landscape unveils.

 

[Metroiddarks]

Honestly when I read that I thought it was our Tim!

Aaron is smarter than Tim, he receive a payment for say XSX is the best thing ever happen to the humanity.

 

[DeepEnigma]

That’s my actual argument, the SFS hardware would enable the XSX to load textures more efficiently and cut on the RAM needed. For example 3/4 of RAM that would have been used for textures. Although the PS5 has much higher throughput, this looks like an equalizer. All other game assets are minute in size. We need to see the real world performance of SFS though.

Huh?

 

[Vanfanel340]

But did the social media pundits without a first name, last name, or title say Playstation 5 was RDNA 1.5? . someone explain it to Lisa Su who will be lost hahahahaha

 

[Neo_game]

Tim Sweeney and Epic's Chief Technical Officer say it would run on a RTX2070 and a standard SSD.

So for decades CPU/GPU has been what drives gaming graphics and gameplay , all of a sudden Sony marketing dreams up SSD magic sauce and everyone is claiming SSD is now what drives gaming graphics and game play. Amusing to say the least.

What are you even talking about ? The SSD and I/O is going to make a big difference. Communication is the key factor here to remove bottleneck and make the console as efficient as possible. If you do not believe then even Nvidia scientist are saying the same thing. Check out this video around 15:13 mark.

 

[TLZ]

i like Richard and John's dynamic a lot better.

I agree. Keep Alex boxed in PC land where he belongs, and where I can easily avoid him.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Even with this engine that damned door would still be loading.

I still see it full blurry, are you any lucky out there? I hope to see it fully rendered by the end of the game, maybe I need some secret magic to see beyond the blur.

 

[Three Jackdaws]

What are you even talking about ? The SSD and I/O is going to make a big difference. Communication is the key factor here to remove bottleneck and make the console as efficient as possible. If you do not believe then even Nvidia scientist are saying the same thing. Check out this video around 15:13 mark.

Coreteks video was controversial amongst certain fanboys but his analysis is ageing nicely, it goes hand in hand with what the Epic Games designers were saying about the PS5 as well.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

All this crap about how much better it'll be on XSX and in reality it'll be 1440p vs 1620p at best. Along with reconstruction and streaming compression, no one would be able to tell a bloody difference right now.

It'll not be possible on XSX nor PC, according to the CEO of Epic Games. Let's not assume beyond what the CEO of the company owning UE said.

 

[SlimySnake]

Btw serious question, the way Lumen was described at the start of the video, all natural and bouncing light, no baked light etc, do we really need RT? Isn't this Lumen natural enough?

i think we still need RT for reflections, but for lighting? not really. global illumination is global illumination, doesnt matter what technique is rendering it. i suspect RT based GI will be more accurate but i doubt you will be able to see the difference.

its important to note that UE4 had GI, but it was taken out after the consoles came out because i guess consoles were too weak to utilize it.

 

[SlimySnake]

Any demo that needs to be putting more than 4.8GB/s into RAM won’t be possible on XSX. The question (to which only Epic know the answer) is how many GB/s of data was being transferred into RAM during the flying sequence of this specific PS5 demo? (Assuming sequential read for simplicity)

3GB/s?
4GB/s?
4.79GB/s?
5GB/s?
6GB/s?
7GB/s?
8-9GB/s?

If it was well under 4.8GB/s then has Cerny and Sony overspent? Have they invested huge cost into something pointless? Was Sweeny wrong to call PS5 well balanced and god-tier IO? Is it overkill and pointless IO?

XSX and PS5 can both do things the other cannot. This demo was clearly made to stretch PS5, so I have doubts that the same detail at the same speed would be possible on lesser IO.
I think their Nanite technology could be scaled to match the IO, and a similar technology demo on XSX could have perhaps had less detail, but higher resolution and maybe nicer reflections on the water etc.

I’m sold on both XSX and PS5 for different complimentary reasons, but today has made me more hyped for PS5 than I have been.

Sweeny kept coming back to IO—just as all devs seem to—and PS5 IO is in a class of its own. XSX’s is mid-tier PC NVMe at PCIe 3.0 speeds.

i suspect they will turn down the detail on xbox series x while turning up the resolution.

i dont think either console will hold back the other.

 

[yewles1]

Hold on. If this engine ties a triangle to every pixel, and ps5 can in theory process more triangles, would that allow ps5 to run at a higher resolution provided there are no other bottlenecks?

Possibly, but other factors such as fillrate and CU count determining other visual effects necessary, it's never cut and dry.

 

[Represent.]

 

[Metroiddarks]

"PS5 will have a huge advantage in detail, even if the resulting image is lower resolution than XSX"

That is wonderful, and I know I am failing to understand this, but isn't this where Variable Rate Shading/Mesh Shaders come in because how can you make the demo that we just saw run at 4k at 60fps assuming that PlayStation has something similar to MSFT VRS/MS?

The billions of triangles and level of detail is something that is NOT taxing on the CPU/GPU? When you are from a distance, or passing by stuff quickly why put all those billions of triangles and level of detail there in the first place? Is this where streaming when needed comes in?

I dont understand

We need to wait until we see more tech demos from differents companies but PS5 also has Primitive Shader which is basically the same to Mesh Shaders according to Star Citizen devs.
https://www.starcitizen.gr/2642867-2/
This demo is impressive but is not in real 4k everytime you see a tech demo like this is basically the top of what should be possible with the combination of the hardware and actual solutions, that
doesn't means are impossible to reach or even exceed for example this tech demo runs in hardware more powerful than a PS4 but with an older engine.


As I understand part of the 'magic' of nanite is doesn't need to render all those triangles only one per pixel, they way in how they do it is another story. We heard rumors of HZD 2 for PS5 with some
big quantity of polygons so is possible the engine of guerrilla will use a similar technology. If you want to can read part of the pain which pass one the persons involve in create that solution (Brian Karis):
http://graphicrants.blogspot.com/2009/01/virtual-geometry-images.html

Looks like in some way the Unreal engine instead of use the traditional LoD which is basically the same objects with different level of detail (polygons) the engine can only load in a "smarter" way
only polygons necessaries for that specific moment for that specific model but in order to do it fast enough is necessary a good bandwidth.

But in how they do all that well that is something should be able to figure out in the next weeks or even months.

 

[ArcaneNLSC]

Reported

 

[HAL-01]

Possibly, but other factors such as fillrate and CU count determining other visual effects necessary, it's never cut and dry.

it would appear then XsX's bottleneck would be geometry and perhaps I/O speed, while PS5's is raw compute power, for multiplats we could be seeing a happy medium where ps5 gets a small boost in detail and in XsX slighly better quality lighting... hmm.

 

[TLZ]

Going back to it, I think HellBlade 2 is a step up from what we saw today.

Did they ever confirm how that footage was exactly captured? I remember the term 'in-engine', 'real time' both thrown about at the time of reveal. But was it running on a Series X dev-kit?

Honestly, after the last Inside Xbox bs they pulled, until I see actual gameplay I'm in cautious mode.

 

[GlassAwful]

i suspect they will turn down the detail on xbox series x while turning up the resolution.

i dont think either console will hold back the other.

I don't think you can turn down the detail with this concept with a res boost or you are reverting back to LODs which isn't the point of this tech.

If you increase resolution, the engine is rendering more of the polygons of every object in view. Which means you need even more GPU power to crunch a higher resolution and more polys at the same time.

My guess is the 30 fps and 1440p are dictated by the best balance of GPU polygon crunching performance and system input/output ability to stream in and out new objects, or more precisely, new portions of objects (or more detail of the same objects you are nearing).

Epic basically alluded to Unreal 5 nanite working on nextgen consoles and pc hardware but its not clear if this demo and its res/fps were tailored to PS5 abilities or if it was built for the common baseline and just shown off on PS5.

Strange as it sounds... if this geometry processing tech is heavily I/O bound and optimized for PS5 than Series X may have to run it at a lower resolution (essentially meaning less polygons, but since tied to per rendered pixel you can't tell) to get the assets moved in and out, leaving alot of GPU overhead leftover that I guess could be put to use to spruce up other effects.

All being said, I'm a little perplexed that they've made an infinite detail rendering tech supposedly and then made no effort to zoom in on an impossibly detailed object closer and closer. Which reminds me.... iD was researching this same infinite detail tech a few years ago...

 

[Metroiddarks]

That’s my actual argument, the SFS hardware would enable the XSX to load textures more efficiently and cut on the RAM needed. For example 3/4 of RAM that would have been used for textures. Although the PS5 has much higher throughput, this looks like an equalizer. All other game assets are minute in size. We need to see the real world performance of SFS though.

The SFS is a good solution but first you put an extreme case, second is not like doesn't exists something similar already in PS4 'Partially Resident Textures' and probably also
the Xbox one hast it, SFS is an evolution not something which never was used in some way.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/5261/amd-radeon-hd-7970-review/6

 

[TLZ]

''

Tweet's unavailable. What was it?

 

[whoever81]

Party pooper alert!

The Unreal Engine 5 Demo Is Pretty, But Do You Really Care? | Digital Trends

Epic's spectacular Unreal Engine 5 demo is a great piece of hype, but it sets unrealistic expectations. Gameplay, not graphics, is the reason most gamers play.

www.digitaltrends.com

 

[Bo_Hazem]

"PS5 will have a huge advantage in detail, even if the resulting image is lower resolution than XSX"

That is wonderful, and I know I am failing to understand this, but isn't this where Variable Rate Shading/Mesh Shaders come in because how can you make the demo that we just saw run at 4k at 60fps assuming that PlayStation has something similar to MSFT VRS/MS?

The billions of triangles and level of detail is something that is NOT taxing on the CPU/GPU? When you are from a distance, or passing by stuff quickly why put all those billions of triangles and level of detail there in the first place? Is this where streaming when needed comes in?

I dont understand

What you saw there is more like a stress test, pushing PS5 to the full limit that even the 16GB RAM is starting to reach its limit but it doesn't, because the system is smart and adapts accordingly.

With an optimized game you should expect a much more impressive game but with 4K assets not hollywood 8K assets that are used by movie makers and NASA.

You could expect higher resolution with 4K assets for open world games, and probably 8K for linear games just to keep game sizes relevant. Not sure though, all are assumptions and speculations.

 

[Lethal01]

I actually wouldn't mind a P5R/DQXI S equivalent for FFVII on the ps5 with improvements to graphics and maybe replace some of the padding with more meaningful content

I suppose I can wait until the Finale to go back to Midgar

 

[pixelation]

Life comes at your fast if your an xbox fan

They hate to see it.

 

[megreotsugua]

“[The PS5] puts a vast amount of flash memory very, very close to the processor,” says Sweeney. “So much that it really fundamentally changes the trade-offs that games can make and stream in. And that’s absolutely critical to this kind of demo,” Sweeney explained.

“This is not just a whole lot of polygons and memory. It’s also a lot of polygons being loaded every frame as you walk around through the environment and this sort of detail you don’t see in the world would absolutely not be possible at any scale without these breakthroughs that Sony’s made.”

https://www.ign.com/articles/ps5-ssd-breakthrough-beats-high-end-pc?sf122295089=1