Since when does the Xbox have less bandwidth? The bandwidth of the RAM is still equally (if not more) important than the bandwidth of the SSD.
As for the latency, I'm not sure how you know that the Xbox has higher latency. I have not seen anything to indicate that. Is this the whole higher GPU clock speed thing?
Since when does the Xbox have less bandwidth? The bandwidth of the RAM is still equally (if not more) important than the bandwidth of the SSD.
As for the latency, I'm not sure how you know that the Xbox has higher latency. I have not seen anything to indicate that. Is this the whole higher GPU clock speed thing?
Thank you for your intelligent contribution to the talk.
Don't look perplexed my friend. How many times have we heard about.
Don't look perplexed my friend. How many times have we heard about.
I didn't want to mess up the standard you were setting, which is conspiracy theory based on 0 evidence.
Do you also think that PS5 would've performed just as good at the Minecraft Path Tracing demo?
And I was convinced it was native 4K. Those textures and high polygon counts go a long way to make it look like you're running at a higher resolution. Hell, if every game could look that good, I'd be happy with 1080p60 performance and I'm a total 4K whore.
Ahh, I misinterpreted your gif. What i find actually rather curious is that Sony has not given their IO,SSD and Software architecture a fancy marketing name like Microsoft Velocity Architecture.You got me wrong. Fact is you hit the nail in the head.
as far as i know, M2 SSDs have ultra low latency, around 60 micro seconds (micro, not mili). So we dont need another mobo generation, its all about bandwidth, not latency.What we know is the implied message from TS. Then we also know that the PS5 has a custom made I/O loop to ensure that loading data off the SSD is very fast. We also know that the max bandwidth from the PS5 SSD is higher than for the XBX. Everything indicates (i.e. we do not fully know yet) that the latency is extremely low for the PS5 as defined by time point (T0) when the call is made for a texture stored on the SSD and when it is actually is sent (T1). T0->T1 is your key latency number (there are more steps as well).
It is the latency that is the problem on a PC given the amount of steps involved - it is quite high - and why I believe that the PC environment will not be able to replicate this without motherboard changes (and that will take at least another generation). This last part is my speculation but I would not do it unless I thought there is something to this argument.
I didn't want to mess up the standard you were setting, which is conspiracy theory based on 0 evidence.
Do you also think that PS5 would've performed just as good at the Minecraft Path Tracing demo?
Even if there was marketing we still need to see if the ssd is as important as hinted.The fact that they mentioned all PS5 marketing terms you would think people would pick up on this. Spatial Audio, blazing fast SSD, balanced system, etc.
All we know so far about XSX is allot of nice sounding terms and a last gen demo that takes 11 seconds to load on XSX.
I am sure MS are working out what to show next...
How on earth was that a conspiracy theory? It's standard business practice. Sony and Epic has worked together on this event, with Sony providing the hardware and Epic providing the software - broadly speaking. This event was about UE5 and the PS5. They were never going to talk about the XSX. It's just how it is.
I have no idea how the PS5 would the Minecraft RT demo, but considering the XSX was pushed to the limit (and over it, at times) and considering that the XSX should (theoretically) have higher RT performance than the PS5, the PS5 would likely also have trouble running it.
All we know so far about XSX is allot of nice sounding terms and a last gen demo that takes 11 seconds to load on XSX.
It's funny some people seem to think just sticking a super fast SSD into any old PC will achieve the same results. As if the PS5 doesn't do anything else to best take advantage of the SSD (despite Sony and several devs blatantly saying otherwise) and is just pretty much a stronger PS4 but with an SSD in it.
I get it, everyone likes a bit of banter, i do to but your constant "trying to throw shade on anything positive about what the ps5 might be able to do is leading me to think you are harbouring an agenda.
I agree with everything you said, except this part. For me it's not clear at all. You've got the XSX that is more powerful, but now the questions is if the SSD can make up that difference and maybe even more. Since they don't disclose enough information we can't really know this yet. Was there so much information to push towards the GPU that only the PS5 SSD was able to manage this, or was this still possible on the XSX? Do developers have the time, and users the storage capacity to develop games in such detail, or is this only for demo's?Specs have been revealed, we know who’s the top dog in this bout.
No you said Sony paid EPIC. You say the event was about the PS5 but I didn't see the PS5 logo, the Sony logo, or anybody from Playstation there. This event was about U5 new tech and it was shown on the PS5. You're throwing conspiracy theories about money hats.
I'm not surprised you see things differently when it comes to performance in a tech demo highlighting XSX advantages. But thank you for being transparent.
It’s not me, it’s him.
as far as i know, M2 SSDs have ultra low latency, around 60 micro seconds (micro, not mili). So we dont need another mobo generation, its all about bandwidth, not latency.
Of course Sony struck a deal with Epic to present the UE5 on the PS5. This is big business. It's not a conspiracy theory - it's by far the most likely event. Epic highlighted again and again the PS5, even though the engine runs on everything from PC to XSX and the PS5. Why do you think that is? Out of love and respect for Cerny?
Businesses are run on money and in this case Sony most likely paid Epic an unspecified amount of money or granted them exclusivity on future Sony titles coming to PC.
PS. Quit your petty console warring. You asked for my opinion and got it. Don't get defensive over that.
a frame takes 16ms (or 33ms if 30fps) to render (display). I really dont know how that latency would cause any bottleneck.Even with state of the art hardware you will hover around 0.3 ms on a new PC today with multiple calls in short sequence. And that is not counting the CPU load for texture management that is added on top due to decompression without dedicated hardware.
So it is not as easy as you make it.
Fun fact:Of course Sony struck a deal with Epic to present the UE5 on the PS5. This is big business. It's not a conspiracy theory - it's by far the most likely event. Epic highlighted again and again the PS5, even though the engine runs on everything from PC to XSX and the PS5. Why do you think that is? Out of love and respect for Cerny?
Businesses are run on money and in this case Sony most likely paid Epic an unspecified amount of money or granted them exclusivity on future Sony titles coming to PC, in return for Epic praising the PS5 like this.
PS. Quit your petty console warring. You asked for my opinion and got it. Don't get defensive over that.
They said PS5 twice, before it began and during to hammer home it was real time on a platform people can quantify.
I'm not console warring mate, you clearly are. It clearly bothers you that this was running on the PS5, and that can be considered petty, otherwise you wouldn't be spreading bullshit about money hats, and your stance on the Minecraft demo would be the same but it isn't.
P.S - don't get defensive and let's get back on topic, which is about what Tim's comments on PS5 ssd solution.
Woh woh woh!!!! Hold your horses didn't take like 6 years for the 7nm chips to come out and so I don't expect 5nm for a long time.This dick waving argument is pointless. By the time a game that is ready for purchase using the UE5 engine will probably be 2022 by the earliest, possibly 2023? The amount of high level tech coming for the PC in that short time will be far ahead of anything out now or by the end of this year.
By then, DDR5, PCIE5.0, 7nm and 5nm CPUs, RTX 4000 series possibly 5000 series etc.
How is it throwing shade when you have a bunch of misinformed people saying PC can't do this, can't do that? Me proving those people wrong isn't shitting on ps5? Defending one thing isn't the same as hating on another. They don't have to be mutually exclusive. Try looking at the people who I've been quoting for an idea.I get it, everyone likes a bit of banter, i do to but your constant "trying to throw shade on anything positive about what the ps5 might be able to do is leading me to think you are harbouring an agenda.
For years consoles have been holding back computers and now finally when we see massive innovation and quotes stating that "with out these modifications this would not be possible", So with that wonderful news, instead of praising the advancement, you decide to throw shade at it.
I understand your one of the pc master race people, where unlimited money can buy you anything but the fact is, the vast majority of people who own pcs will have weaker systems than what is being shown in the new consoles.
That's not even including the $500 dollar price tag, try building a pc for the same price as what your getting in these consoles, you can not, you will not be able to.
In the end you should be abit more positive as you are the one that is going to benefit the most from this new tech, yes it will be coming to pc a few years down the line and you will get to take advantage of it.
The new consoles, yes both of them are pushing the boundaries for the next generation.
We are going to see things that were never thought possible.
Stop being so delicate and petty about it all.
Mods/ sorry for the rant and if i get a warning i understand why.
All we know so far about XSX is allot of nice sounding terms and a last gen demo that takes 11 seconds to load on XSX.
I am sure MS are working out what to show next...
The XSX is stronger than the PS5 in RT, and considering the XSX struggled with the Minecraft demo, how on earth can you disagree that the PS5 would struggle as well? Are you even reading what you're responding to?
might have something to do with some manifesteres renamed their original 7nm process to 5nm (it is more like intels 14++++++++++ but instead of naming it 7nm++++++ they named it 5nm). Real 5nm production for big chips is far far away.Woh woh woh!!!! Hold your horses didn't take like 6 years for the 7nm chips to come out and so I don't expect 5nm for a long time.
What the PS5 will do with finesse, PCs will soon do with brute force. That is sort of the way it has always been, and will continue to be.Optimised or not this just really isn't great. They're talking about lighting fast, to no more loading at E3 and then they release this. The fact MS actually thought this was the best comparison they could show is just confusing to me.
It's funny some people seem to think just sticking a super fast SSD into any old PC will achieve the same results. As if the PS5 doesn't do anything else to best take advantage of the SSD (despite Sony and several devs blatantly saying otherwise) and is just pretty much a stronger PS4 but with an SSD in it.
And the Church said, Amen.What the PS5 will do with finesse, PCs will soon do with brute force. That is sort of the way it has always been, and will continue to be.
a frame takes 16ms (or 33ms if 30fps) to render (display). I really dont know how that latency would cause any bottleneck
Saying PC's will catch up quickly is so obvious. Technology isn't static, it's constantly evolving, news at eleven. Dismissing how cool it is that a console is trying to innovate and push hardware forward though, is small dick syndrome.
Whenever a positive talk or tech implemented in PS5 you will find a rare disease spreading into those threads and its related to something called PC .. not all but some really put much effort to point something we already know and they know but still .. it’s hard on them so PS and Xbox community just take care of them and whenever they say just nod
well, we both are just guessing, i dont have the knowledge on that, I would like to hear someone that does.Just to show that this is not as easy again. Let's assume that you enter a room with 10,000 different textures and you have 12 channels on your SSD. That means that just the total latency is around 10,000*0,3/12 = 0,25 seconds and that does not include the actual loading and decompression of the textures. So latency becomes extremely important in a high texture environment when moving at normal pace in a game.
Someone with better knowledge about render environment can comment on the actual number of textures in modern games as well as the texture average size in bytes. With those two numbers in the equation you will start to realise that the latency quite fast becomes the key problem in utilising the SSD in the way that the PS5 did in the demo.
The premise of the demo seems to indicate streaming as the primary showpiece. Whether devs lean into it or not is definitely a question mark. But the potential is certainly greater in PS5 to provide more assets, faster. Just like there is more potential on XsX to provide more pixels.I agree with everything you said, except this part. For me it's not clear at all. You've got the XSX that is more powerful, but now the questions is if the SSD can make up that difference and maybe even more. Since they don't disclose enough information we can't really know this yet. Was there so much information to push towards the GPU that only the PS5 SSD was able to manage this, or was this still possible on the XSX? Do developers have the time, and users the storage capacity to develop games in such detail, or is this only for demo's?
Imagine STILL doubting God-King Cerny.
Because he is.Why does Mark Cerny always look like he's plotting something lol
Clever marketing by sony tbh
Xbx shows trailers, no one really cares or are left underwhelmed, sony get their name on a tech demo and people go ape shit
Not saying xbx is worse, just right now, no buzz surrounding it (yet), just cg trailers for 3rd party games.