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[Radical_3d]

i was responding to comment that suggested that since epic is thaat big it means that they are “the best”, just pointing out that that logic is somehow flawed

That’s a very good argument, sir.

 

[Bonsaibäumchen]

More like the 'fist of Sony!' What we saw yesterday was just the ONE inch punch!

If Sony makes a full blowout in June (before MS first party showcase) with Console Reveal,Games and more it'll be more like this

 

[Thirty7ven]

Ok so Alex from DF is already on the other place saying the faster SSD on the PS5 doesn't offer any advancement. It's different just because.

I'm starting to wonder what's up with this. I would like for those who believe that it offers no benefit, like he does, to explain to me why is then that faster SSDs are being brought to the market and why Sony decided to remove so many bottlenecks and end up with a SSD that was at least 5Gb/s which in the end ended up being 5.5.

Like I would really love for someone who shares the same opinion to explain to me why it doesn't matter, why it offers no advancements and why not go with a 1Gb/S SSD then. Why is it that apparently, the XSX at 2.4 GB/S is the magic number?

 

[ethomaz]

Ok so Alex from DF is already on the other place saying the faster SSD on the PS5 doesn't offer any advancement. It's different just because.

I'm starting to wonder what's up with this. I would like for those who believe that it offers no benefit, like he does, to explain to me why is then that faster SSDs are being brought to the market and why Sony decided to remove so many bottlenecks and end up with a SSD that was at least 5Gb/s which in the end ended up being 5.5.

Like I would really love for someone who shares the same opinion to explain to me why it doesn't matter, why it offers no advancements and why not go with a 1Gb/S SSD then. Why is it that apparently, the XSX at 2.4 GB/S is the magic number?

Where he said that?

He wrote that.

"Memory management is a hot topic too: a big part of the UE5 story is how original, full fidelity assets can be used unaltered, unoptimised, in-game - so how is this processed? This, in turn, raises further questions about the storage streaming bandwidth required, an area where PlayStation 5 excels. So, to what extent is the Lumen in the Land of Nanite tech demo leveraging that immense 5.5GB/s of uncompressed memory bandwidth? Hopefully we'll learn more soon."

Edit - Ohhhh you mean ERA lol

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Ok so Alex from DF is already on the other place saying the faster SSD on the PS5 doesn't offer any advancement. It's different just because.

I'm starting to wonder what's up with this. I would like for those who believe that it offers no benefit, like he does, to explain to me why is then that faster SSDs are being brought to the market and why Sony decided to remove so many bottlenecks and end up with a SSD that was at least 5Gb/s which in the end ended up being 5.5.

Like I would really love for someone who shares the same opinion to explain to me why it doesn't matter, why it offers no advancements and why not go with a 1Gb/S SSD then. Why is it that apparently, the XSX at 2.4 GB/S is the magic number?

Getting most of DF especially that guy to say positive things about Sony and mean it wont happen.

Again there are reasons why they hop on a plane and get to do these deep dive reveals from MS.

Some of those guys are barely one step up from sites like Windows Central Gaming.

 

[FeiRR]

That’s a very good argument, sir.

This is where the ignore function fails, because you still see quotes in comments. Just to clarify, I didn't write anything like that, you can check my post history. I'm not wasting my time on that individual, though. His logic is primary school level of right.

 

[BadBreathOfTheWild]

Cerny and Sweeney know more about building game engines and game development tools than any technology journalist or even game developer that just inserts their own assets and logic into a game engine they're licensing. That is not in dispute.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

What PC? How much? how much power draw? How much cooling and form factor? Is that a PC you can buy before the PS5 is on general sale?

No one would ever claim that a PC couldn't run the demo in the future, or in the present - if you completely ignore that PC and £5000 workstation are not the same thing. No one with a PC at the cost of the GTX 670 setup that was used last-gen will be running that demo. For that type of PC to run the demo you are going to need new SSD controller cards on the PCIe bus, with similarly fast PS5 SSD setups - back like the old days of 8080 PCs, and you are still going to need a GPU with enough ROPs and polygon pushing power to achieve that. The 1 billion front facing polygons per frame at 1440p30 is going to tax zbuffering greatly, and that is directly related to the PS5 highclock-rate. The scenes are averaging about 3.5 pixels per polygon area, and that isn't going to suit wide and slow as nicely - because the jobs are too small and brief (IMHO).

Man, I've been paying close attention to you at all time, you are a guru! Give me more of that AMD infinity fabric and potential PS5 Pro stacked APU please

 

[Ascend]

and drawing 1billion front facing polygons per frame,

They aren't actually drawing a billion polygons per frame.... Even though the assets are billions of polygons. Trying to render them would definitely choke everything. The whole point is that the engine only renders to the required resolution, rather than wasting resources on rendering things you can't see. So ultimately, the amount of polygons drawn will roughly equate the total amount of pixels on screen, independent of how many polygons each asset is.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

I must have missed that.

I thought with the quality of the assets they had to use compressed textures but it's cool to know that they only used the RAW speed of the PS5s SSD. This to me indicates that many developers won't even have to worry about compression which is a good thing.

Not raw speeds, they said uncompressed 8K models used mostly for Hollywood movies, and they didn't touch any of that or lower the polygon count. Meaning that was more like a playable Hollywood movie! If they compress them then expect native 4K instead, not to mention that Rebirth trailer actually used toned down 4K assets (-25%) with lesser polygons to achieve near 4K@24fps at 2.39:1 aspect ratio on 1080Ti: (watch it on a 4K tv)




So that trailer could be easily playable on PS5 at native 16:9 4K@30-60fps.

 

[Ascend]

Cerny and Sweeney know more about building game engines and game development tools than any technology journalist or even game developer that just inserts their own assets and logic into a game engine they're licensing. That is not in dispute.

Actually, there are at least two things in dispute.
Sweeney is the one representing the new engine. Cerny is representing the hardware. If I make a car and you win a race with it, it would be stupid to say that both of us know more about driving than anyone else. You are the one that won the race, not me. You know about racing, I know about making cars. Those are two completely different things.

Which brings me to the second point. Sweeney nor Cerny don't do anything by themselves. They lead teams that do all the work. The input from their teams is a lot more valuable than you give them credit for. These guys are the faces.

 

[B_Boss]

he didn’t say that it will be not possible on other platforms. Don’t be naive, it is obvious that there is some sort of deal between epic and Sony to promote this. Same with AMD saying that xbsex will be “pinnacle of innovation” when it comes out. Remember, what ps5 can do, “the world’s most powerful console” can do better.

Console wars aside, i still doubt that we can can this level of fidelity at 4K 60fps next gen, which is a shame. Cannot wait for ps6 and next Xbox (whatever horrible name ms comes up with next).

The quote was:

“The Xbox Series X is going to be a beacon of technical innovation leadership for this console generation and will propagate the innovation throughout the DirectX ecosystem this year and into next year.”

(source: https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/03/16/xbox-series-x-tech/)

Well, I wonder if, taking context and word usage into consideration, “a” is certainly not as strong a term as “the”. The Series X will be a beacon of tech. innovation absolutely and I wonder if the same could be said about the PS5 and even some PC parts that have yet to launch .

I don’t believe it is a stretch to assume (at this point anyway) that each console will outperform the other in certain key areas? (maybe I’m in error here). Remember, the One X is the “worlds most powerful console” as I type this and yet....well.....it isn’t so cut and dry . I guess my point there is that “can do better” may not be necessarily true.

The flying part of the demo was a cutscene, hmm.

Alright and if so, did you also read why? I’d imagine that It could have easily been playable but for the reasons stated, they did not implement the feature. I’m not sure what your point is but I’m genuinely interested . Also....I swear your name is familiar....

 

[Killer Sakoman]

To think unlimited detail was so easily achievable with these new consoles, I wonder if Guerrilla or any other of sony's first parties already arrived to a similar solution with their own engines, considering the PS5 seems to have been specifically designed with this in mind.

Or better yet, considering sony worked closely with Epic they could already be using this tech

There was some leak claiming that Horizon 2 will show billions of polygons on screen and many of us called it bullshit. It turned out that the 100s of billions of polygons are true.

 

[Metroiddarks]

It's about money, obviously... And why do you think PS exclusives are starting to pop up on the Epic Game Store?
Whether Epic pushed Sony to deliver this I/O is possible, but is still speculation. The fact is that they are partnered up, and both are working together to make money. Obviously, they are going to talk each other up.

Because Epic games is the one that charges less per game sell, you talk about is speculation if Epic pushed Sony to do it but just before you also
speculate what kind of coherence is that one?

You might be sure, but I'm not. He did mention that the PS5 has a God tier SSD. But he also mentioned that the demo can run with an RTX 2070 and an SSD. Don't let PR talk fool you.
It's kind of funny though, that you mention favoring one vendor would be to shoot themselves in the foot, and yet you claim that Sweeny specifically pushed Cerny to make this decision, but somehow did not do the same with Phil Spencer.

Yeah. Sony has a reason for doing what they did. So did Microsoft.

If the PS5 is the not god tier please show us one SSD which you can buy with better specs, Xbox wants its games go to PC they just cannot put something so exotic as that SSD
which will raise console costs and in the same will be harder to port its games to PC and Xbox one.

It was a demonstration of an engine rendering things completely differently compared to the standard traditional method of doing it. Yes, the improved I/O is being used. So is the improved CPU and GPU power. It is still unclear which degree of performance of the SSD is required to reach this fidelity. We do not have enough information. It is possible that it requires the PS5 solution. And it is still equally possible that it does not.

"One is the GPU performance and GPU architecture to draw an incredible amount of geometry that you're talking about - a very large number of teraflops being required for this. The other is the ability to load and stream it efficiently. One of the big efforts that's been done and is ongoing in Unreal Engine 5 now is optimising for next generation storage to make loading faster by multiples of current performance. Not just a little bit faster but a lot faster, so that you can bring in this geometry and display it, despite it not all fitting and memory, you know, taking advantage of next generation SSD architectures and everything else... Sony is pioneering here with the PlayStation 5 architecture

But is also clear that engine scale with SSD in some way, this engine will be in almost all device but if you think an SSD with almost the half of speed and the same memory will load the same
quantity of geometry then go and tell them to tested in XSX.

I know you will tell me something like Tim Sweeney is bias for huge quantity of money he received from Sony .... yes I am sure he needs
more money and suddenly MIcrosoft is not anymore the trillion company.

Epic change with Unreal Engine V what is the definition for a render yeah if you don't think so well just ignore all the devs and artists of the industry and say the TF still much more important
and the SSD bandwidth only works for improve loading screens. Man are just toys, which matter is the games not the boxes if you cannot believe is okay because to the reality doesn't care
if you believe or not that Cerny maybe knows more than we thought.

 

[whoever81]

I've already forgotten about the Unreal 5 demo. Too far away into the future...Time for some tangible in-depth GoT...28 minutes and counting down

 

[Ascend]

There was some leak claiming that Horizon 2 will show billions of polygons on screen and many of us called it bullshit. It turned out that the 100s of billions of polygons are true.

To show billions of polygons you would need billions of pixels.

 

[PaintTinJr]

They aren't actually drawing a billion polygons per frame.... Even though the assets are billions of polygons. Trying to render them would definitely choke everything. The whole point is that the engine only renders to the required resolution, rather than wasting resources on rendering things you can't see. So ultimately, the amount of polygons drawn will roughly equate the total amount of pixels on screen, independent of how many polygons each asset is.

Edit: Good point. I was looking at a factor of 1000 out. It would seem it was more like 1 million per frame. And yet I was sure they said that in the video, hence original comment. Maybe with all the millions and billions mentioned heard it wrong and then didn't clock the factor error.

 

[Mod of War]

The flying part of the demo was a cutscene, hmm.

This would sound like an NDA breach to me.

Do we have verified proof this person is who he says he is?

"secret info or something" … hmmm. Funny phrase for a dev to say. I am definitely open for confirmation.

 

[Ascend]

No, I'm pretty sure if you watch the video, and then see 1 polygon for nearly every pixel or couple of pixels (2560x1440 = 3.6billion pixels give or take) as they are discussing in the cave, and it is rendering that 30 times a second, that is roughly the polygon draw rate - ironically the polygon rate per second of the PS3's RSX)

I think you're off by a factor of 1000.

 

[pasterpl]

Not sure if this was already posted

Sony says “wait for PS5 sales” before comparing it to Microsoft’s Xbox marketing

Sony is confident the PS5 will outsell the Xbox Series X.

www.theverge.com

 

[IntentionalPun]

This would sound like an NDA breach to me.

Do we have verified proof this person is who he says he is?

"secret info or something" … hmmm. Funny phrase for a dev to say. I am definitely open for confirmation.

Yeah if you crash the PS5 devkit you could potentially get into screens, see UIs, whatever that Sony hasn't detailed.

That's what they meant; whether true or not who knows.

 

[Killer Sakoman]

Hold on. If this engine ties a triangle to every pixel, and ps5 can in theory process more triangles, would that allow ps5 to run at a higher resolution provided there are no other bottlenecks?

I think ps5 has faster rasterization and faster gpu cache as well. Not sure about this info.
I believe XSX gpu will need to work harder to offset the difference. At the end, Both consoles will perform aroumd 5% from each other which is what we already heard from Jason.

 

[pasterpl]

The quote was:



(source: https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/03/16/xbox-series-x-tech/)

Well, I wonder if, taking context and word usage into consideration, “a” is certainly not as strong a term as “the”. The Series X will be a beacon of tech. innovation absolutely and I wonder if the same could be said about the PS5 and even some PC parts that have yet to launch .

I don’t believe it is a stretch to assume (at this point anyway) that each console will outperform the other in certain key areas? (maybe I’m in error here). Remember, the One X is the “worlds most powerful console” as I type this and yet....well.....it isn’t so cut and dry . I guess my point there is that “can do better” may not be necessarily true.

that’s very interesting way of looking at this, and probably the right one, these PR releases are created very carefully and every single word matters

I guess time will tell

 

[Gediminas]

I've already forgotten about the Unreal 5 demo. Too far away into the future...Time for some tangible in-depth GoT...28 minutes and counting down

your brains will leak out from your eyeballs you are not ready for this, we are not ready for this !

 

[LucidFlux]

"secret info or something" … hmmm. Funny phrase for a dev to say. I am definitely open for confirmation.

Regardless of the validity of this person, as someone who works at a large tech company you may be surprised at the different kinds of people that manage to get hired. You sometimes scratch your head asking how they got themselves there. Someone can be brilliant at their specific role and still not be an effective communicator for instance.

 

[J_Gamer.exe]

I know some of this has been covered but just to mention loading times on the xbox.

We can debate specs and people can say bcpack does this and sfs does that (which IMO won't anywhere near make up for the specific hardware the ps5 has) but we have demos put out by Microsoft which show over 11 seconds to load a game of last gen quality.



We also have the quick resume games video where it takes about 6 seconds to switch.



Now we must remember these presentations won't have been thrown together by Microsoft they will have been carefully chosen to present the xbox in the best light.

Even the game switching demos, two of the games aren't big games and even the hellblade game is facing the wall when it loads up and is in an environment that doesn't look very taxing.

I'd imagine that these locations etc were carefully chosen to present the best times possible and I think that tells us how far behind the xbox could be in this area compared to the ps5.

Yes its spiderman demo isn't officially released and did it have code changes? We don't know, but we do know 2 very important slides that makes the ssd speed alone not the thing that changes the game.

Without that specific io investment the 100 times SSD will not transfer to 100 times faster.

The xbox seems more in line with the other slide, the ratio that is.

People say the ps5 is twice as fast where it's likely that that twice as fast would be if the xbox had the same io hardware. It doesn't and therefore it's far more likely the ps5 is multiples faster in 5his area.

I think sony is really going to push home its advantage this gen more and more, it might not have some of the bigger numbers but outside of pixel counting and zoomed DF analysis it has the easier advantages to show off. Sub second load times vs maybe 5-10. Better asset quality potentially and no lod or pop in is very easy to see, if pop in is visible, as it is on the load time video for eg.

Finally a question.... didn't the epic devs say that the assets on that demo didnt fit into ram and therefore the ps5 streaming capability is essential for it to run like it did.... so does that mean the 16gb of ram was full and if so would this present a problem for then xbox? As it's been said about the split ram and it may only be an issue if the games are over 10gb. Well if ram was full would this slow down the effective bandwidth of the xbox and mean that demo would bring out a bottleneck?

 

[PaintTinJr]

I think you're off by a factor of 1000.

Yeah, I clocked the mistake after posting :that reply , managed to miss it on the original post and reply to yours. I have edited, but sadly too slow .

 

[amstradcpc]

Actually, there are at least two things in dispute.
Sweeney is the one representing the new engine. Cerny is representing the hardware. If I make a car and you win a race with it, it would be stupid to say that both of us know more about driving than anyone else. You are the one that won the race, not me. You know about racing, I know about making cars. Those are two completely different things.

Which brings me to the second point. Sweeney nor Cerny don't do anything by themselves. They lead teams that do all the work. The input from their teams is a lot more valuable than you give them credit for. These guys are the faces.

Do you know who Sweeney is?. And Carmack?.

 

[Mod of War]

Yeah if you crash the PS5 devkit you could potentially get into screens, see UIs, whatever that Sony hasn't detailed.

That's what they meant; whether true or not who knows.

I know this. How it was phrased, sounded... off. Sounds like someone not as technically adept would have wrote, let alone someone who claims to be the inventor of Nanite technology. Maybe he was being vague on purpose, but he did drop some stuff where yesterday they were evasive on certain questions.

Just for the information or disinformation campaign that we like to keep under wraps more in the OTs.

Regardless of the validity of this person, as someone who works at a large tech company you may be surprised at the different kinds of people that manage to get hired. You sometimes scratch your head asking how they got themselves there. Someone can be brilliant at their specific role and still not be an effective communicator for instance.

This is true as well.

 

[ZeroFool]

The water in the Epic demo felt like - hurry up and run through this before people notice it is from Skyrim. That was one area where maybe I just noticed it out of the corner of my eye. So I went and had a look at the UE4 tech demo "Boy with a Kite" and that demo still holds up really well. Water looks great, so no doubts that UE5 will be better. Just a nitpick from the footage yesterday.

I don't recall open world foliage yet having that much diversity and natural movements. Getting close, so IMO that is one area where nextgen will further improve over current. Not going to count the blades of grass, but I love how vibrant that old demo still feels.

 

[Ascend]

Do you know who Sweeney is?. And Carmack?.

Sweeney developed Unreal Engine. Carmack is a programmer that worked on Doom, among other things. Both are pioneers for developing/creating games and engines alike.

Why do you ask?

 

[ZeroFool]

I hate to double post as NEO, but one is a god the other is an immortal.

Do you know who Sweeney is?. And Carmack?.

Maybe if I wait a few seconds it won't be a double post.

 

[FranXico]

The unreal 5.0-PS5 tech demo is totally not possible on:

-PC AMD RDNA 2 and upcoming RDNA 3
-NVIDIA Ampere and Hopper
-Intel Xe GPU line
-PCIE 5.0 SSD Drives

Nope not at all. Nope nope nope.

Nobody said it won't be possible on superior upcoming PCs. What is your point?

 

[ANIMAL1975]

So did everyone miss this comment from Epic:

As for Microsoft’s Xbox Series X, Sweeney isn’t saying the new Xbox won’t be able to achieve something similar; both are using custom SSDs

And guess what! Just leaked UE5 tech demo on XSX real time and with full RT reflections!

 

[pasterpl]

And guess what! Just leaked UE5 tech demo on XSX real time and with full RT reflections!

probably 4K

 

[ANIMAL1975]

probably 4K

True. Native 4k confirmed by Alex, DF is already on it!

 

[Kureo]

Y'all like to hate Microsoft

 

[BattleScar]

The unreal 5.0-PS5 tech demo is totally not possible on:

-PC AMD RDNA 2 and upcoming RDNA 3
-NVIDIA Ampere and Hopper
-Intel Xe GPU line
-PCIE 5.0 SSD Drives

Nope not at all. Nope nope nope.

Bold of you to assume that Intel's Xe will be relevant outside of HPC and integrated graphics for many years.

 

[Bladed Thesis]

Y'all like to hate Microsoft

For no reason. But the persecution complex when Sony isn't hitting on all cylinders is off the charts. You should go count the threads of "can't we have serious discussion without flaming!?!?!"

 

[ZeroFool]

Y'all like to hate Microsoft

I am equal opportunity, I just like to hate because I am grumpy. But I love everyone!

Edit: In the 90s I was mad at Sony when my LD and MD kept breaking and the repair costs were stupid. Lol

 

[Doncabesa]

This would sound like an NDA breach to me.

Do we have verified proof this person is who he says he is?

"secret info or something" … hmmm. Funny phrase for a dev to say. I am definitely open for confirmation.

It's all from here in the comment section. https://www.shacknews.com/article/1...ed-by-epic-games-lumen-nanite-tools-showcased

 

[user1337]

They will still work fine with older HDMI.

You will just need HDMI 2.1 for 4k 120hz and the other things like VRR

4k 120hz yes, but VRR doesnt need 2.1 as such. All of the samsung qled tv's (50inch and above) have it as standard on HDMI 2.0.

 

[Radical_3d]

Y'all like to hate Microsoft

That Ghost thing was awful. Another open world game full of collectibles.

 

[Gamernyc78]

The quote was:



(source: https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/03/16/xbox-series-x-tech/)

Well, I wonder if, taking context and word usage into consideration, “a” is certainly not as strong a term as “the”. The Series X will be a beacon of tech. innovation absolutely and I wonder if the same could be said about the PS5 and even some PC parts that have yet to launch .

I don’t believe it is a stretch to assume (at this point anyway) that each console will outperform the other in certain key areas? (maybe I’m in error here). Remember, the One X is the “worlds most powerful console” as I type this and yet....well.....it isn’t so cut and dry . I guess my point there is that “can do better” may not be necessarily true.



Alright and if so, did you also read why? I’d imagine that It could have easily been playable but for the reasons stated, they did not implement the feature. I’m not sure what your point is but I’m genuinely interested . Also....I swear your name is familiar....

Taken from an Xbox site? As proof of what? Lol it has a stronger gpu marginally stronger and psv has a way more advanced ssd with more speed. Obviously both will advance in some things. I don't take PR fluff too seriously in either camp unless it comes from a neutral party. Pr is there to fluff and hype and often times falls short.

 

[Kazekage1981]

Nobody said it won't be possible on superior upcoming PCs. What is your point?

SSD sauce. Delicious.

 

[Mod of War]

Y'all like to hate Microsoft

If you're here just to derail and troll around vidya persecution complexes, feel free to let us know now.

 

[RookX22]

Am I missing something VRR is variable refresh rate aka as freesync or gsync depending on your gpu manufacturer and it is available on tvs and monitors through hdmi already?

 

[Larryfox]

Ghost is definitely one of the best stylized game I’ve seen not the best graphically though. If that makes any sense lol

 

[Ascend]

Am I missing something VRR is variable refresh rate aka as freesync or gsync depending on your gpu manufacturer and it is available on tvs and monitors through hdmi already?

It is a part of the HDMI 2.1 specification. Being HDMI 2.1 compliant means you have to support VRR. Read more here;

HDMI for Gaming - Superior Gameplay Experience

Variable Refresh Rate (VRR) reduces or eliminates lag, judder and frame tearing for more fluid and better detailed gameplay, HDMI 2.1b

www.hdmi.org

 

[IkarugaDE]

If you're here just to derail and troll around vidya persecution complexes, feel free to let us know now.

Whenever I read your messages I have a very powerful and deep voice in my head.