Support NeoGAF

[Evilms]

 

[xacto]

I mean Sony is a business, that’s their job to frame this as a win but seriously? An engine demo that no one would remember if this was E3.

"An engine demo that no one would remember" - yes, possible, if you have Alzheimer's disease. Otherwise everyone will remember that. If you want to be taken seriously, you have to try a little harder than that, this is low effort.

Speaking of "framing as a win" you know what actually people will remember from an E3? Xbox games actually running on Windows 7 PC's, back in 2013. Remember that? If not, here's a little reminder for you.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

Next-Gen Consoles Run the Swarm Engine 'Amazingly', Could Render a Lot More Than WWZ's 1K Zombies

Saber CEO said that the studio's Swarm Engine runs 'amazing' on next-gen consoles and could render a lot more than World War Z's 1K zombies.

wccftech.com

WWZ Dev talks next gen console power

Next-Gen Consoles Run the Swarm Engine ‘Amazingly’, Could Render a Lot More Than WWZ’s 1K Zombies

As part of our interview with Saber Interactive CEO Matthew Karch, we inquired with him regarding the upcoming next-gen consoles, PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X.

To begin with, we asked what got the developers at Saber Interactive most excited about this new generation of hardware by Sony and Microsoft.

Saber uses its own Swarm Engine, which famously was capable of rendering over a thousand zombies on screen in the studio's multi-million hit World War Z. How bigger could this number have been if the game had been made with next-gen hardware in mind?

Bigger, a lot bigger. Running the Swarm Engine on next-gen hardware is amazing. The things we can do with the new systems will have a material impact on the experience. I would love to talk about what we have already been able to do on the new consoles, but it’s too soon.

Karch also commented on the DirectX 12 Ultimate feature set recently detailed by Microsoft. Apparently, Saber intends to use it to the full extent in future titles, which is certainly good news for gamers as DirectX 12 Ultimate will work across both the next-gen Xbox and Windows PC.

Yes, we are planning on using multiple new hardware features in the upcoming games. We are working on global illumination and realtime reflection technologies based on DirectX raytracing. We are planning on unifying our geometry and LOD authoring pipelines with Mesh shaders. Sampler feedback will be used to help optimize sparse textures and variable rate shaders will deliver a performance boost. We are excited about new technologies coming up in this DirectX update and are always looking for ways to optimize our games by taking advantage of the newest technologies.

Is WWZ confirmed for Next Gen port already? If WWZ 2 happens it sounds like it will be great on XsX and PS5

 

[whoever81]

Yup it's coming alright. Another playstation.com site update! Beat me to it Soon is now sooner.

PlayStation®5 | Play Has No Limits | PlayStation

Everything you need to know about the PlayStation®5 console and PlayStation®5 Digital Edition with a new slim PS5 design. The best PS5 games, PS5 accessories, and the DualSense wireless controller.

www.playstation.com

 

[geordiemp]

https://www.playstation.com/en-us/ps5/

i know its not really anything but the site has been updated.

Dr Strange was right all along, praise the insider knowledge

 

[Gediminas]

"An engine demo that no one would remember" - yes, possible, if you have Alzheimer's disease. Otherwise everyone will remember that. If you want to be taken seriously, you have to try a little harder than that, this is low effort.

Speaking of "framing as a win" you know what actually people will remember from an E3? Xbox games actually running on Windows 7 PC's, back in 2013. Remember that? If not, here's a little reminder for you.

it was like another day in m$ office, things like this happens pretty much everytime when they show something or talk something. they are out of touch. they treat people like morons without any intellect.

 

[aclar00]

Oh, you mean someone else posted this on here too?

oh, no...i have kids...

 

[xacto]

it was like another day in m$ office, things like this happens pretty much everytime when they show something or talk something. they are out of touch. they treat people like morons without any intellect.

Well, when you look at the people they use to promote their new console... Timdog & Co. there's really no wonder.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

Yup it's coming alright. Another playstation.com site update! Beat me to it Soon is now sooner.

PlayStation®5 | Play Has No Limits | PlayStation

Everything you need to know about the PlayStation®5 console and PlayStation®5 Digital Edition with a new slim PS5 design. The best PS5 games, PS5 accessories, and the DualSense wireless controller.

www.playstation.com

Just like years before during E3, we will now know both systems' price and games in June. Just a few more weeks

 

[Rikkori]

Guy I have a question for you what do you think about AdoreTV ? Specially after the reveal of Navi

He's ok. He's less completely full of shit than ppl like moores law, Coreteks, and redgamingtech, but he doesn't shy away from wild speculation nor does he have the necessary technical chops to back up what he's talking about. It's a lot of summarising and repeating of anandtech articles basically. Sadly he's the best of a bad bunch, because the next level up doesn't exist on youtube and it involves a lot of very technical papers & pre-existing knowledge.

In short, don't put money on what he says but feel free to watch the videos and be entertained. Makes for a nice morning coffee watch. Besides, who doesn't love a Scottish accent.

 

[saintjules]

Getting real tough with this 'soon' 'June' stuff

 

[Gediminas]

 

[nosseman]

Nope.

The XSX can only have 2 Shader Engines. 4 SEs are mathematically impossible for the XSX's GPU configuration.

Why?

Because each Shader Engine contains 2 Shader Arrays.
A Shader array must have an even number of Compute Units, because RDNA(2) uses Dual Compute Units (also known as Work Group Processors).

The XSX has 56 CU on the fully unlocked die, which is then cut down to 52 CU for the production chip for redundancy. This has been confirmed my Microsoft.

With 2 Shader Engines (4 Shader Arrays), you have 28CU per Shader Engine, or 14 CU per Shader Array. 2 CU (or 1 WGP) is disabled per Shader Engine. So the configuration is some variant of [14 ,12, 14, 12] for each array

With 4 Shader Engines (8 Shader Arrays), you have 14CU per Shader Engine or 7CU per Shader Array. 7 is not divisible by 2. So it doesn't work.

Given that each Shader Array has 16 ROPs, a Shader Engine has 32 ROPS.

Based on the above math, the XSX can only have 2SE's and 64 ROPS.

Side note:
You also messed up your math. If the XSX had 60CU, broken into 3 SE's of 20CU, then if you disabled 3 CU per SE, you'd be disabling 9 in total and you'd be left with 51 CU's. If you disabled 2CU per SA, then you'd be left with 54CU.
The maths just doesn't work out I'm afraid.

That sounds right.

It just looks so packed with only 2 SEs.

According to the rumor Navi 21 is 40CUs on 2 SEs (20 CUs per SE), Navi 22 is 60 CUs on 3 SEs (20 CUs per SE) and Navi 23 is 80 CUs on 4 SEs (again - 20 CUs per SE).

The Xbox Series X should have 56CUs on 2 SEs which is 28 CUs per SE - that sounds so strange when AMD does not put more than 20 CUs per SE in their other cards.

 

[Metroiddarks]

You said BCPack is in Xbox one. I have not seen this sighted anywhere so I assume it was pure speculation.

Let's say BCPack with that name doesn't exists but part of BC exists since many time ago and was available for the current gen of xbox and PC:

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/direct3d11/texture-block-compression-in-direct3d-11
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/wi...programming-guide-resources-block-compression

Even before was not called BC was DXT

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/direct3d9/using-compressed-textures

Probably BCPack include a new kind of compression maybe not and is only hardware (which itself is a good improvement).

Let me just quote one line of BC of Direct 10

Block compression is a texture compression technique for reducing texture size. When compared to a texture with 32-bits per color, a block-compressed texture can be up to 75 percent smaller.

That sounds familiar right.

Is so common than now you can some of this BC you can use in any big commercial engine:
https://docs.unity3d.com/es/2018.4/Manual/class-TextureImporterOverride.html
https://docs.unrealengine.com/en-US...extures/TextureCompressionSettings/index.html

That means BCPack is exactly the same than BC, not I am sure not because put a nice name to already existing technology and then saying is a very important
part of you new console will be not correct even dishonest.

 

[ToadMan]

@BadBreathOfTheWild

After a bit more reading...

There are indeed a NVMe controller inside the SSD hardware too... it is flexible and can be updated with firmware (for example to update the NVMe protocol form version 1.2 to 1.4).

The motherboard needs to run the NVMe software.
You are right about the NVMe controller inside the SSD hardware... there is two controllers the SDD one and the host-controller.

And the NVMe controller can have it software updated via firmware.

Example of an host-NVMe board (look at the NVMe controller on the board/host):

BTW the priority levels are software based that can be updated via firmware on SSD and driver on host.

I can’t see any scenario where Sony try to update a 3rd party SSD firmware. The warranty issue alone would be impossible to resolve - nevermind the technical issues of supporting firmware updates.

Sony will just be putting a firmware wrapper around those 3rd party drives to map 6 priority levels to 2 (or 3) and that’s it.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Since the game awards back in December to the most recent Inside Xbox, it seemed like Microsoft was leading the charge in terms of messaging for next generation. It seemed like they had momentum and that the wind was in their sails. It seems to me that the most recent inside xbox, or perhaps the way they sold it, was a misstep for them. Going into next generation was always going to be an uphill climb for Microsoft, but Epic following up the next week with a true next gen look on PS5 I think set them back alot, if not permanently in terms of momentum and perception. Just something ive been thinking.

It could always be a too much too soon kind of thing. Transparency can be bad thing if it isn't handled correctly.

 

[Insane Metal]

38 games? The fuk?

 

[pasterpl]

it was like another day in m$ office, things like this happens pretty much everytime when they show something or talk something. they are out of touch. they treat people like morons without any intellect.

“everytime“ it is quite a rich statement, from xbsex announcement until that inside Xbox event they were doing quite well, much more open than Sony this time around

 

[Gediminas]

Well, when you look at the people they use to promote their new console... Timdog & Co. there's really no wonder.

they are like those people. that's why they associate with them. it is zero surprise for me.

 

[Gediminas]

“everytime“ it is quite a rich statement, from xbsex announcement until that inside Xbox event they were doing quite well, much more open than Sony this time around

if you quoting at least do it right.

 

[Apollo Helios]

No way I trust OPM after Godfall cover. + 38 games?? that must include a lot of cross gen games while still saying next gen right?

 

[Bryank75]

I can't watch what games did he mention.

Nothing specifically, just says they have loads of games and have heard so for nearly 2 years from their sources.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

38 games? The fuk?

Final nail in the coffin for "IronmanPS5" saying #176 would have the PS5 on the front cover.

 

[Insane Metal]

Geoff Keighley liked the post. Who is this and why is this relevant?

 

[Deleted member 775630]

No way I trust OPM after Godfall cover. + 38 games?? that must include a lot of cross gen games while still saying next gen right?

It includes cross gen games, but 38 is still a lot. PS4 launched with 26 games, but I think now there will already be a lot more indie titles available on both systems cross-gen.

 

[ToadMan]

Actual games in development. Full games. Or a demonstration of an engine that will run on multiple devices including my phone?

I mean Sony is a business, that’s their job to frame this as a win but seriously? An engine demo that no one would remember if this was E3.

I’ll get excited when I see PS Studios games. At least Cerny agrees with me “Game players are here for the fanatics games”

The UE5 demo was Epic not Sony. Sony haven’t framed the UE5 demo as anything.

As for games, you got a handful of 3rd party trailers that looked meh and are months if not years away, and in the next 2 months there’s TLOU2 and GOT from Sony actually releasing.

It’s clear where the games are.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Anyone posts spoilers an I'm pressing the button.

 

[Metroiddarks]

It includes cross gen games, but 38 is still a lot. PS4 launched with 26 games, but I think now there will already be a lot more indie titles available on both systems cross-gen.

Also remember guys from boh companies where are going to see games far to be released, yes you know a quick teaser without any date in the of the video.

 

[Reficul]

The 5700 XT is 40CUs/64ROPs divided by two SEs- 20CUs in each and 32 ROPs in each.

"Big navi" is supposed to have 80CUs/128ROPs in 4 SEs (same 20CUs and 32 ROPs in each).

What is interesting is that the Series X supposed to have 52CUs. To much for just 2 SEs and to little for 4 SEs.

What if Xbox Series X has 3 SEs? That would mean (if all CUs and ROPs are there) 60 CUs and 96 ROPs.

We all know Series X only has 52 CUs so that means that in that case 3 CUs are removed/disabled for each SE.

The problem is the ROPs. There are 32 on each SE so if Series X have 3 they should have 96 ROPs and even if some are removed the number cant be 80 (since 80 is not even divided by 3).

Could it be that Xbox Series X use 4 SEs but each SE is more cut down?

That would mean 52CUs and 80 ROPs divided by four SEs - 13 CUs and 20 ROPs per SE vs 20 CUs and 32 ROPs per SE for an uncut chip.

Sorry, I dont speak Gibberish. Can anyone explain it in layman terms?

Just kidding Nosseman. Nice speculations

 

[Agnostic2020]

Guys next week is the week . Book this post. Ps5 annoucmeent next week . Where is Dr Strange when u need him to be ready ?

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

 

[sircaw]

38 games? The fuk?

Bloodborne, bloodborne 2, bloodborn 3, bloodborne 4..............

Fs of to take my medicine.

 

[SSfox]

Geoff Keighley liked the post. Who is this and why is this relevant?

 

[MrPotato]

 

[Metroiddarks]

Bloodborne, bloodborne 2, bloodborn 3, bloodborne 4..............

Fs of to take my medicine.

 

[Apollo Helios]

I think I won't be sleeping tonight.

 

[Sinthor]

If this was SH leaks 'insiders' been talking about then LOL

What's so funny about it? Might not be your speed but it LOOKS pretty incredible. That barbed wire looked real, at least from the quick glimpse. I dunno...but it looks fine for just a quick teaser trailer to me.

 

[ksdixon]

<meta name="keywords" content="ps5, playstation 5, next gen, nextgen, playstation5, five, dualsense, ray tracing, 4k, 8k, backwards compatibile, backcompat, compat"/>

They use 8k as a keyword.

I'm more interested in BC as keyword. What's this from?

 

[PSX]

Geoff Keighley liked the post. Who is this and why is this relevant?

 

[MasterCornholio]

38 next gen games.....

And gameplay screens...

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

*Only Brits will likely get this Gif....

 

[Games Dean]

Guys next week is the week . Book this post. Ps5 annoucmeent next week . Where is Dr Strange when u need him to be ready ?

Would you guess both the announcement and the event will be next week or an announcement next week for an event the following week? If that makes sense.

I can't decide which I think they'll do.

 

[Great Hair]

 

[zaitsu]

I'm more interested in BC as keyword. What's this from?

Dude it probably means only that - bc with ps4

 

[MasterCornholio]

Final nail in the coffin for "IronmanPS5" saying #176 would have the PS5 on the front cover.

 

[Entroyp]

Geoff Keighley liked the post. Who is this and why is this relevant?

Is that the shape of the PS5?

 

[Radical_3d]

Geoff Keighley liked the post. Who is this and why is this relevant?

 

[DaGwaphics]

That sounds right.

It just looks so packed with only 2 SEs.

According to the rumor Navi 21 is 40CUs on 2 SEs (20 CUs per SE), Navi 22 is 60 CUs on 3 SEs (20 CUs per SE) and Navi 23 is 80 CUs on 4 SEs (again - 20 CUs per SE).

The Xbox Series X should have 56CUs on 2 SEs which is 28 CUs per SE - that sounds so strange when AMD does not put more than 20 CUs per SE in their other cards.

Navi supports a wide variety of configurations, you adjust front-end size of the SEs as needed. The 5500 has 24 CUs on a single (larger) SE.

 

[Corndog]

Let's say BCPack with that name doesn't exists but part of BC exists since many time ago and was available for the current gen of xbox and PC:

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/direct3d11/texture-block-compression-in-direct3d-11
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/wi...programming-guide-resources-block-compression

Even before was not called BC was DXT

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/direct3d9/using-compressed-textures

Probably BCPack include a new kind of compression maybe not and is only hardware (which itself is a good improvement).

Let me just quote one line of BC of Direct 10


That sounds familiar right.

Is so common than now you can some of this BC you can use in any big commercial engine:
https://docs.unity3d.com/es/2018.4/Manual/class-TextureImporterOverride.html
https://docs.unrealengine.com/en-US...extures/TextureCompressionSettings/index.html

That means BCPack is exactly the same than BC, not I am sure not because put a nice name to already existing technology and then saying is a very important
part of you new console will be not correct even dishonest.

Doesn’t the exact same thing apply to ps5? Since I’m sure PS4 used some form of texture compression. I know PC Cards use compression as well.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

Guys next week is the week . Book this post. Ps5 annoucmeent next week .

When you say announcement, do you mean that their reveal event will be announced or the actual console as well as an event will be happening?