Support NeoGAF

[PaintTinJr]

PaintTinJr & BadBreathOfTheWild I would need your help here. Assuming that the leaked Phison (flash controller?) for XSX is true, why DRAM-less?

Spoiler

Could they use their own DRAM soldered in the motherboard to be shared with both the internal and external SSD? Or it's a strange cost-cutting stunt?

I'd give them the benefit of the doubt on this one. I suspect it wasn't about cost - even though in theory it should help xbox make their external offering cheaper or more profitable.

My first thought when watching the video and him saying about "mapping" was that this is a security concern for piracy.

I suspect they've gone with a much bigger shared DRAM pool - ie bigger than game sections of backward compatible games - so they can increase the drives life-span by not touching the disk while running oider games, once loaded., and also improve performance. The DRAM being closer to the system should also reduce latency.

If they are also offering external USB storage for older games, a shared DRAM pool might also be able to act as an SSD cache.

The video seemed completely correct for PC advice, but consoles being fully custom those drawbacks wouldn't necessarily apply if Xbox went this route. I'm pretty sure xbox has balanced their solution the best they can after doing as much as they could to remove vectors to hack the system.

 

[Vaztu]

There is power control by activity info monitoring and AMD smart shift. Both help to keep the console quite while keeping the GPU and CPU at max clocks when needed

Okay, so AMD SmartShift found in laptops don't control(shift) power by monitoring activity info ?

 

[IkarugaDE]

So, I've never been a Sega fan. I always had Nintendo consoles and switched to the PlayStation later. So I see all with a little distance.
But reading hints like "It will shatter the gaming industry", "it's PS5-wired-revelation like" and "It's an article about a world premiere" doesn't sounds like a Sega mini-console like a dreamcast mini or saturn-mini. IMO this would not be a thing which shatters the gaming industry.

On the other hand, I somehow cannot imagine that Sega will bring a competitor to the PS5 and XSX onto the market. That would be doomed to fail. What I can imagine, however, would be a competitor to the Switch with some cool/innovative features. In my view, that would be the most sensible and obvious idea. What else would be so revolutionary?

Okay, there is one thing that could underline it.

Sega (as a publisher) still released 4 Games in 2020: Yakuza 5 (Remastered for PS4; was also released for PS3 in 2015), Bayonetta & Vanquish 10th Anniversary Bundle (PS4 and XBOX One), Two Point Hospital (PS4 and XBOX One; First released on PC in 2018) and Streets of Rage 4 (PC, PS4, XBOX One and Switch).

There is only one title left this year (Yakuza: Like a Dragon), whereby it already released in Japan in January.

In other words: There is no other planned completely new release in the name of Sega for other consoles or PC this and the upcoming year. Of course, this does not have to mean anything, but is very noticeable due to the announcement.

 

[whoever81]

 

[FeiRR]

So, I've never been a Sega fan. I always had Nintendo consoles and switched to the PlayStation later. So I see all with a little distance.
But reading hints like "It will shatter the gaming industry", "it's PS5-wired-revelation like" and "It's an article about a world premiere" doesn't sounds like a Sega mini-console like a dreamcast mini or saturn-mini. IMO this would not be a thing which shatters the gaming industry.

On the other hand, I somehow cannot imagine that Sega will bring a competitor to the PS5 and XSX onto the market. That would be doomed to fail. What I can imagine, however, would be a competitor to the Switch with some cool/innovative features. In my view, that would be the most sensible and obvious idea. What else would be so revolutionary?

I've never had a Sega console because they had disappeared from the market before consoles reached our poor man's land. But I can imagine that releasing a console nowadays would cost several billion dollars and be extremely risky. Do they have that much money to gamble?

 

[TBiddy]

The reloading of a pause state is nothing to do with unoptimsied game though, that is reloading 5 GB or so of a last gen game that has been stored and reoloaded by XSX using all its hardware bells and whistles, SFS, VRS, BCPack, light saber, the one ring, bla de blah

So 5 GB is generous, probably allot less as obviously will be a compressed save state.

Fact is, what has been shown sio far by MS, XSX is very slow I/O compared to Ps5 however you want to dress it.

I suspect you quoted the wrong person.

 

[BadBreathOfTheWild]

Okay, so AMD SmartShift found in laptops don't control(shift) power by monitoring activity info ?

It does intelligently spread an allowed wattage across the CPU and GPU based on activity, but that’s just the perfect partner for what PS5 is doing by scaling frequency depending on activity while aiming for a fixed power draw.

Computation costs power draw and creates heat. A fixed clock can be generating little to excessive heat depending on work load.

PS5’s scaling of frequency doesn’t take into account system temperature, but an expected temperature based on the environments they’re targeting and the nature of the task being worked on.

This is different to the kind of Boost paradigm found in a laptop where SmartShift can help sustain ultimately unsustainable boost clocks for twice as long.

SmartShift is one piece of the puzzle and one that really extends PS5’s deterministic fixed power draw target.

 

[Bogroll]

Invent what? AMD SmartShift improves the efficiency of how PS5 deals with cooling, but is only a piece of the puzzle, not the entire solution.
Is there something other than SmartShift being used in that package? Hard to find information on it.

Read the bold on the poster i quoted. It's me who's asking.

Here some of you have a wrack off to this.

 

[Agnostic2020]

Looks like the article is from April 16th. I maxed out my current viewings on Bloomberg so I'm now behind a paywall in order to see the rest.

well he mentions the same in the article they put out yesterday for June 3. Saying sony is stating mass production in June so they will show the console design soon

 

[Agnostic2020]

Okay, so AMD SmartShift found in laptops don't control(shift) power by monitoring activity info ?

No there is another chip That controls activity info of both CPU and gpu To ensure fan doesn’t go into overdrive . Smart shift only helps the gpu boost its output when the code doesn’t require the CPU to be at max clock. So when there is extra power budget available from CPU it sends it to gpu to push higher resolution.

 

[bitbydeath]

These xbox one BC games arnt build to use XSX I/O hardware

Sounds like the games would be broken and not play if the I/O didn’t function. What makes you think it requires coding to work?

 

[mitchman]

Why has this picture become a ''thing''? Context? I think Dictator is great in what he does.

He managed to write a full article on the UE 5 demo without mentioning SSD a single time, it was as if he didn't want to acknowledge that PS5 beats his holy PC in this regard. So yeah, no impressed with him.

 

[keram]

We are getting the PS5 event date tweet today.

You ready ?❤


Time to get hyped.

Its happening

WE/I need a PS5 hype train !

 

[BadBreathOfTheWild]

Read the bold on the poster i quoted. It's me who's asking.

Here some of you have a wrack off to this.

As I said, SmartShift is only part of the puzzle. Laptops like this don’t target a fixed power draw, but staying under a certain monitored temperature. A console couldn’t work that way.
And without knowing the history of SmartShift, it’s hard to say who was involved in its development.
Async Compute (now a big part of game engine design and ubiquitous on discrete PC GPUs) was developed by AMD and Sony—presumably for the upcoming PS4 which leveraged it more than Xbox One—and also found its way into PC, laptops etc.

 

[pasterpl]

there was a man who done the same with 3,5GB/s SSD on PC and the game loaded in 12sec. this shows how Sony is myles myles ahead with SSD and IO solutions. how somebody said it : PS5 SSD IO solutions is next next gen.

at least there was a demo from xbsex, still nothing official from Sony, only theory

 

[Agnostic2020]

WE/I need a PS5 hype train !

We did hype train for ps5 gdc talk and XSx gameplay event .both crashed and everyone died.lets skip trains this time so we stay alive

 

[Gamernyc78]

We did hype train for ps5 gdc talk and XSx inside xbox .both crashed and everyone died.lets skip trains this time so we stay alive

Let's do a hype plane instead so we can crash and burn in style

Damn tht would be cool if someone did make a hype plane flying towards a gigantic Kraken

 

[kuncol02]

Sounds like the games would be broken and not play if the I/O didn’t function. What makes you think it requires coding to work?

For the same reason why PC with 3,5GB NVME SSD still takes 10 seconds to load game. There is lots of things happening when you load game. Not only pulling data from disk. You need to decompress data, build data trees, deserialize objects, initialize game and calculate lot of data for many different game systems (pathtracking, etc).
There is game .kkrieger. Whole game is 96KB on disk, but after it's loaded it takes few hundreds MB of RAM.
First Witcher game had load times counted in minutes (like 5 minutes when entering small building with one room), they quickly patched it by and shortened by an order of magnitude.

 

[Delpij]

This announcement might very well be an M&A move too.

 

[Md Ray]

Maybe I missed it, but why aren't there more discussions about machine learning? I know that a chief studio officer from EA, I believe, made mention of machine learning being powered by the GPU in one of the WIRED articles from 2019. But my questions are:
1. Why didn't Mr. Cerny speak or give any hint about ML in his 'Road to PS5' talk?
2. If ML is present, then is it the same kind of implementation that MS has in their XSX? Basically, does the PS5 support ML just like the XSX does?

 

[geordiemp]

explain me how vrs and sfs help to load a viewstate.
it's even possible bcpack is not use here if they are blindly dumping all the ram when they save.
in this scenario PS5 is untouchable but most VXA features are not there for it ( and need game engine to support them)

I think when I added light saber and one ring to rule them all I was being funny maybe ?

The point is the save and reload is using XSX hardware and silicon and latest apis, whatever they are.

 

[geordiemp]

I suspect you quoted the wrong person.

Maybe, I was working home office and gaffing in parralel lol

 

[Neo Blaster]

Cyberpunk looks like a game which you gonna need to play at least 2 times for platinum

If you play a game in different platforms, wouldn't there be two different platinums? That's what happens today for crossgen games, isn't it?

 

[Agnostic2020]

This tells me ps5 news is soon

 

[geordiemp]

Maybe I missed it, but why aren't there more discussions about machine learning? I know that a chief studio officer from EA, I believe, made mention of machine learning being powered by the GPU in one of the WIRED articles from 2019. But my questions are:
1. Why didn't Mr. Cerny speak or give any hint about ML in his 'Road to PS5' talk?
2. If ML is present, then is it the same kind of implementation that MS has in their XSX? Basically, does the PS5 support ML just like the XSX does?

ML is just int 4/8 /16 compute stuff in effect and part of RDNA2 so what is to say about it ?

MS and Sony do not invest in it like Nvidia and so what do you want them to say other than PR and buzzwords ?

Quite frankly the temporal upscaling from 1440 to 4K on the UE5 demo is fine, nobody could see jack shit or count pixels (DF had to be told lol), so who cares about DLSS?

 

[geordiemp]

This tells me ps5 news is soon

Its missing some boxes

Yes - slow as hell instant resume
Yes - dont ask us to do high asset quality real time streaming anytime soon

 

[Shmunter]

This tells me ps5 news is soon

Lol, things are getting sweaty at Xbox

 

[IkarugaDE]

This tells me ps5 news is soon

That's why I don't like the communication from MS. I never saw something similar from Sony in the past.

 

[saintjules]

This tells me ps5 news is soon

 

[Yakuzakazuya]

This tells me ps5 news is soon

Is this tacit acknowledgment that they don't have next gen only exclusive?

 

[pasterpl]

Maybe I missed it, but why aren't there more discussions about machine learning? I know that a chief studio officer from EA, I believe, made mention of machine learning being powered by the GPU in one of the WIRED articles from 2019. But my questions are:
1. Why didn't Mr. Cerny speak or give any hint about ML in his 'Road to PS5' talk?
2. If ML is present, then is it the same kind of implementation that MS has in their XSX? Basically, does the PS5 support ML just like the XSX does?

Microsoft mentioned it when they did xbsex showcase

DirectML – Xbox Series X supports Machine Learning for games with DirectML, a component of DirectX. DirectML leverages unprecedented hardware performance in a console, benefiting from over 24 TFLOPS of 16-bit float performance and over 97 TOPS (trillion operations per second) of 4-bit integer performance on Xbox Series X. Machine Learning can improve a wide range of areas, such as making NPCs much smarter, providing vastly more lifelike animation, and greatly improving visual quality.

but there is much about direct ml when you look at the pc space

Hardware & Tech News - OC3D.net

OC3D is where you can find the latest PC Hardware and Gaming News & Reviews. Get updates on GPUs, Motherboards, CPUs, and more.

www.overclock3d.net

 

[thurnishaleygw]

This tells me ps5 news is soon

"This is not gonna make us look salty, right?

Nah, absolutely not, let's post it, guys."

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

 

[Agnostic2020]

Today is the day ❤

 

[Gediminas]

This tells me ps5 news is soon

Yes- low level gamespass filler games
Yes- no exclusives
Yes- salty as efing

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Posted at 06:00 local shortly after a ERA thread about BC. OK.

In any case I'm not a fan of that kind of tick box Tweet. Goes against how Phil, Shu and other "rival" execs talk about each other in interviews and photo ops.

 

[TBiddy]

Maybe, I was working home office and gaffing in parralel lol

Sounds like my kind of working from home day

 

[Gediminas]

Posted at 06:00 local shortly after a ERA thread about BC. OK.

In any case I'm not a fan of that kind of tick box Tweet. Goes against how Phil, Shu and other "rival" execs talk about each other in interviews and photo ops.

you really expect any class from xbox gang? are you nuts?

 

[Entroyp]

This tells me ps5 news is soon

Pathetic.

 

[IkarugaDE]

Posted at 06:00 local shortly after a ERA thread about BC. OK.

In any case I'm not a fan of that kind of tick box Tweet. Goes against how Phil, Shu and other "rival" execs talk about each other in interviews and photo ops.

Yep, MS has a bit of Sega only 30 years later.

"Sega does what Nintendon't"
"blast processing"

 

[ANIMAL1975]

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

you really expect any class from xbox gang? are you nuts?

Phil seems like a decent guy all round and does loads of interviews but others don't instill confidence. Sony seem to have pulled back from having any execs or otherwise engage with the fans. Even Sid Shuman is on the periphery TBH and barely seen/heard from.

 

[Andodalf]

Gears 5 tech demo was impressive, but maybe even a little bit too much, because I dont know how they managed to run Gears 5 with such quality at 4K 60fps. Results are far above 5700XT and not even 2080ti can do it on PC, so they were either using dynamic resolution, or something like VRS.

Pretty sure they said it had dynamic scaling, and for sure it did during cutscenes.

 

[TBiddy]

you really expect any class from xbox gang? are you nuts?

You on the other hand exhibit pure class with posts like that.

 

[Agnostic2020]

Phil seems like a decent guy all round and does loads of interviews but others don't instill confidence. Sony seem to have pulled back from having any execs or otherwise engage with the fans. Even Sid Shuman is on the periphery TBH and barely seen/heard from.

Well this is under greenberg and not Phil to begin with. So we can't fault Phil directly for it .

 

[Omega Supreme Holopsicon]

Yo, when I build a new PC, that shit has "cross buy or smart delivery"... fucking A, they really do look at console gamer's lower on the nuance level.

Steam has cross buy. Before that, sometimes very old games could not be easily installed on new versions of windows.

 

[Thedtrain]

This tells me ps5 news is soon

The vibe they go for is just....idk. Their brand ambassadors are manchildren and their Twitter is full of gotcha type posts.

 

[Thirty7ven]

No boost mode and no downclocking bits are the kind of attention seeking PR talk that shows how much they are actually lagging behind the competition.

They actively need to bring the competition into the conversation, and that's quite honestly a sign of weakness and shows where you stand on the pecking order.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Steam has cross buy. Before that, sometimes very old games could not be easily installed on new versions of windows.

I get it, I was being silly. I remember still needing a DOS box for some time until they had updates.

This is pure marketing for console plebs though. Especially with BC as these console ecosystems become more and more PC/Mobile like.

 

[Corndog]

Sounds like the games would be broken and not play if the I/O didn’t function. What makes you think it requires coding to work?

MS introduced a new io api.