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All The Last of Us 2 leaks/spoilers in here and nowhere else.

Is it tho?
All i can see on twitter is 1-10k people liking every druckmann post or related stuff, keep talking about how amazing the game was for them etc.
It is okay to enjoy the game. It is okay to think it is the GOTY or best game ever created. After all, everyone has their own opinion but seriously for me they killed the magic of the first game. (& it doesn't have anything to do with the LGBTQ messages in the game)
I think it'll be just like the last jedi. It will make money and be praised except for a loud minority. Eventually the backlash will grow enough that they will begin to rethink their decisions.

Honestly i'd be happy if they make a stand alone dlc like lost prophecy. And like that dlc, fixed the issues with the main game.
 
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Piku_Ringo

Banned
Regardless of sales, which will be huge, i wonder if Cuckman can survive this long term. The public backlash is immense.
You're going to have to get use to it going forward as ND is now Neil Druckmann. So expect more BS soon from whatever games they release after this.
 

njr

Member
This game is just not fun to play for me at all. I know people used to rag on Uncharted (I played 1-3, got bored of 4 a quarter of the way through) for scripted set pieces but now I see the criticism for what it is. 25 hours of this game aside from gunplay is a mixture of a walking simulator, QTE sequences, and dreadful cutscenes. The gameplay and visuals look great, but the AI is hit/miss. I would honestly rate the game a 5/10 because it satisfies the functional requirements of a working game but can be criticized for its narrative which makes the game an unsatisfactory experience. This is not how I would give a critique of a game like Mario Odyssey because it's central focus is the gameplay, in the case of TLOU2, the central focus is the story, it ties the gameplay together. Coming out of a cutscene or walking section into the action makes it feel like a chore to move forward, and I am given no reason to care for the narrative right after creating a massacre of dead bodies. You can totally say that from an artistic perspective that the game is not meant to be fun, but I liken that to heel "heat" in wrestling terms. There's "heat" that makes a person say I want comeuppance or karma, this isn't that, it's change the channel heat.
 
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Stuart360

Member
I think it'll be just like the last jedi. It will make money and be praised except for a loud minority. Eventually the backlash will grow enough that they will begin to rethink their decisions.

Honestly i'd be happy if they make a stand alone dlc like lost prophecy. And like that dlc, fixed the issues with the main game.
It IS avery simlar situatuon to the lsat Jedi, except it was not a minority that didnt like it. You dont drop over $300mil in the US alone, from the first film if it was only a minority that hated it.
From what i see browsing sites and movie forums etc, it was the minority that liked Last Jedi.
 
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ZZZZ

Member
Regardless of sales, which will be huge, i wonder if Cuckman can survive this long term. The public backlash is immense.
The public backlash is immense but so is the love for the guy which i don't understand. i don't think anything is happening to him to be honest, at least for now, unless Sony has a change of mind.

Personally i won't spend a single dollar in any game he works on.
I made a similar promise back when Assassin's creed Revelations was released (to never buy another Ubisoft game until there's significant change in leadership and how they developed their games), and i kept it pretty easily.
 
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ruvikx

Banned
Is it tho?
All i can see on twitter is 1-10k people liking every druckmann post or related stuff, keep talking about how amazing the game was for them etc.
It is okay to enjoy the game. It is okay to think it is the GOTY or best game ever created.

All the "game of the year!" or "game of the generation!" claims have been a sure fire way to detect absolute bullshit for a while now.

I'm 35. I have played 2 real game of the year/game of the generation titles in my life: Metal Gear Solid circa 1998 & Resident Evil 4 in 2005. The rest? It ranges from great to garbage. But nothing has defined games like those two titles from my perspective. For example I believe God of War (the original ps2 game) was a wonderful, masterfully crafted title with beautiful art design, combat, music & plot, but it was still just a Devil May Cry-esque beat them all title. Point being: from what I've seen & irrespective of the shit plot & shit political agenda, The Last of Us 2 is still just another crafting/looting/stealth/slow walking game. Let's not act like hiding in the grass & stealth killing an enemy with crafted items earned from loot is "new" or original.

Its animations/graphics will be outdated fast (next gen is just around the corner) & it's not exactly pushing the boundaries of the medium. So what's left? A short period where fanboys of a particular console & other political activists beat everyone over the head with their new champion until people quickly get bored & move on. Although that "banged from behind" buttsecks meme is great though. So there's at least that.

I also don't believe Naughty Dog deserve the praise regarding the tech side considering the sheer amount of backing & time they enjoy. Sure they do a good job, but other dev studios would as well in such "luxurious" favorable circumstances, i.e. circumstances earned from the success of prior titles, lest we forget. Let's see how the fallout settles after this one (i.e. just because a game sells well, it doesn't mean it can't damage reputations future sales).
 

ToadMan

Member
I finished the game a few hours ago and I fully agree with this. It's probably my biggest problem with the story in this game. The second biggest problem I have is that I SIMPLY CANNOT BUY Ellie abandoning her life with Dina to go after Abby a second time only to let her live at the last moment because of a f*** "flashback". It's SO DUMB. Ellie has all the time in the world after their fight in the theater to think about what trying to get revenge is doing to her and those around her, she has all the time she happily spends with Dina and JJ to think about it, but no, she has to cross an entire country, get wounded, find Abby and almost kill her so that then she can suddenly realize "welp not worth it". It's absolutely ridiculous. Not in my wildest dreams I would have imagined the man who wrote TLOU1 coming up with this shit.

I don’t think it’s that.

I think when Abby has to go back and rescue Yara and Lev. As she said - she did that because she needed to. Judging by the cutscene following Joel’s death, Abby was expecting to feel something - freedom from pain, relief, satisfaction or whatever - and didn’t get that despite killing her father’s murderer. She was still left with the loss of her father and no closure.

She needed the redemption of saving Yara and Lev to be able to live normally.

The same for Ellie. She couldn’t get the images of Joel out of her mind and she went looking a for a way to end that. She thought killing Abby would do it - but realised that it wouldn’t and instead letting go of the hate and facing up to her losses would do it.

As she said, she wanted her life to matter and this was her putulent way of trying to make it matter.
 

ToadMan

Member
My thoughts were

1. I’d have preferred Ellie to have been killed by Abby if anything. I preferred Abby as a character anyway. I even went to so far as to deliberately throw the last fight hoping that would trigger an ending.

2. Maybe I’ve forgotten already but did Ellie ever actually get told by any one that Joel had killed Abby’s father? That just seems to be assumed but I don’t remember any specific dialogue about it - only that Ellie says she understands Abby wanted Joel for not letting the medical procedure continue.

3. Despite the protestations about an SJW agenda, it turns out the white guys were also the good guys in this and it was everyone else who was evil.

4. While I can understand Joel’s motivations, I just don’t like Ellie - didn’t like her in game 1 or this. The way she disrespected Joel at the party was unforgivable. She broke Joel with the way she pushed him away.

5. Lev is cool. I wouldn’t mind a game with him as lead some time.

6. Dina is irritating and she produced an ugly baby. Lol

7. There was no mention of ... “forced impregnation”. Kind of surprised at that given the gritty nature of the game. In a post apocalyptic scenario there wouldn’t be any permitted child bearing age lesbians - repopulation would be necessary to sustain survivor groups - and the times Ellie and Abby were captured I was waiting for some comments or threats to that effect. Seems like ND shied away from that stuff but were less squeamish about other things.

8. The relationships in this game would all qualify for Jerry Springer.

9. It’s true what they say about lesbian relationships. First date is dinner, second date is move in together.... lol.

10. I feel sorry for Owen, but he should have been thinking about his unborn child, not Abby. In the end it wouldn’t have saved him because Ellie was a murderer but anyway.

11. I was pleased that Abby and her “look” that had been the subject of derision was accounted for quite well both in terms of narrative and physical appearance during the game.

12 Oh and referring back to pregnancy, Ellie is immune. She has a duty to try and produce offspring and see if they also inherit her immunity. This is a matter of practicality. At the end she wanted her life to “matter” - then she should get busy breeding what could be immune children.

13. Joel was misguided but having murdered his way across the country balked at one last death and potentually doomed mankind to extinction, so he deserved to get comeuppance for that even though he was a likeable character. Ellie on the other hand isn’t likeable and is basically fucked up and probably evil and deserved to die many times. I feel cheated she didn’t die while people like Jesse and Owen - even Yara - did.
 

MiguelItUp

Member
The Last of Us 2 is still just another crafting/looting/stealth/slow walking game. Let's not act like hiding in the grass & stealth killing an enemy with crafted items earned from loot is "new" or original.

Its animations/graphics will be outdated fast (next gen is just around the corner) & it's not exactly pushing the boundaries of the medium. So what's left? A short period where fanboys of a particular console & other political activists beat everyone over the head with their new champion until people quickly get bored & move on. Although that "banged from behind" buttsecks meme is great though. So there's at least that.
That was my reaction to the original, I just felt like the story, script, writing, characters, and pacing carried it more than the gameplay itself. Gameplay was fine, sure, but nothing revolutionary even at the time it launched.

Obviously to each their own across the board, I'm genuinely happy for people that can enjoy things a great deal. It's just wild to me that there are people that thought TLOU was a "game of the generation", or even more baffling, TLOU2. Like, what games have you played that weren't worthy of that label? What truly makes TLOU and/or TLOU2 worthy of such a label? Just a genuine question full of no judgement, just curiosity, haha.
 

ZZZZ

Member
I don’t think it’s that.

I think when Abby has to go back and rescue Yara and Lev. As she said - she did that because she needed to. Judging by the cutscene following Joel’s death, Abby was expecting to feel something - freedom from pain, relief, satisfaction or whatever - and didn’t get that despite killing her father’s murderer. She was still left with the loss of her father and no closure.

She needed the redemption of saving Yara and Lev to be able to live normally.

The same for Ellie. She couldn’t get the images of Joel out of her mind and she went looking a for a way to end that. She thought killing Abby would do it - but realised that it wouldn’t and instead letting go of the hate and facing up to her losses would do it.

As she said, she wanted her life to matter and this was her putulent way of trying to make it matter.
My thoughts when playing as Abby was basically this.
tenor.gif


Jesus at one point i thought i was in a wattpad teenage drama.
 

ToadMan

Member
My thoughts when playing as Abby was basically this.
tenor.gif


Jesus at one point i thought i was in a wattpad teenage drama.

Unlucky - I enjoyed her half of the game much more than Ellie. Both the story and the gameplay.

Ellie’s part was fine but more one dimensional. Abby brought texture to the tale.

Can't have a modern day white male icon not getting talked down to by a women in media, seen it with Picard, Luke Skywalker and now Joel Miller. :lollipop_grinning:

Yeah that part was difficult to watch - I mean props to the artists and animators for that - you could see Joel’s heart break when Ellie snapped and to be fair she showed remorse fairly soon after.

But in that moment it sealed my feeling about Ellie that I’d had from the get go - we started off playing as the bad guy... and Abby is the ultimate heroin of the piece.
 

ZZZZ

Member
Unlucky - I enjoyed her half of the game much more than Ellie. Both the story and the gameplay.

Ellie’s part was fine but more one dimensional. Abby brought texture to the tale.



Yeah that part was difficult to watch - I mean props to the artists and animators for that - you could see Joel’s heart break when Ellie snapped and to be fair she showed remorse fairly soon after.

But in that moment it sealed my feeling about Ellie that I’d had from the get go - we started off playing as the bad guy... and Abby is the ultimate heroin of the piece.
I did not enjoy it at all, but i didn't like Ellie's Either.
Abby starts with you talking about torturing prisoners to let off steam because she had a bad day, proceeds to have a date with her hunk, smash some skulls like bad ass, then another lovely time with her crush.
Escape time from crazy cult then back to dating, this time she literally fucks with him when he's in a relationship with another woman which is pregnant, at this point i just gave up on the character.
It felt like a wattpad's story.
Edit: The woman that traveled across the country to help with your revenge while pregnant.
 
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Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
I don’t think it’s that.

I think when Abby has to go back and rescue Yara and Lev. As she said - she did that because she needed to. Judging by the cutscene following Joel’s death, Abby was expecting to feel something - freedom from pain, relief, satisfaction or whatever - and didn’t get that despite killing her father’s murderer. She was still left with the loss of her father and no closure.

She needed the redemption of saving Yara and Lev to be able to live normally.

The same for Ellie. She couldn’t get the images of Joel out of her mind and she went looking a for a way to end that. She thought killing Abby would do it - but realised that it wouldn’t and instead letting go of the hate and facing up to her losses would do it.

As she said, she wanted her life to matter and this was her putulent way of trying to make it matter.

If this was the case and the story of playing as Abby was supposed to be redemption then they missed the mark by a mile.

Simply because Abby is like everyone else in this world and everyone has their reasons to kill that doesn't mean she shouldn't have to face her own consequences.

She got away with murder and never even shows a tiny bit of remorse for it. Even when talking about it after the fact the dialogue is "he got what he deserved."

How did he Joel get what he deserved for trying to save the person closest to him? Because a cure could of been possible? That gives people the right to murder Ellie?

You can't try to make me feel for a character that all I have seen is be a terrible person. there's a fine line between doing what you need to do in order to survive and being a person who kills people for revenge, murders thousands of scars because they are the enemy, and has sex with an ex bf when he's clearly involved with another woman with a child on the way. And you want me to feel for her because she saved two people who were once her enemy?
 

morelan

Member
I don’t think it’s that.

I think when Abby has to go back and rescue Yara and Lev. As she said - she did that because she needed to. Judging by the cutscene following Joel’s death, Abby was expecting to feel something - freedom from pain, relief, satisfaction or whatever - and didn’t get that despite killing her father’s murderer. She was still left with the loss of her father and no closure.

She needed the redemption of saving Yara and Lev to be able to live normally.

The same for Ellie. She couldn’t get the images of Joel out of her mind and she went looking a for a way to end that. She thought killing Abby would do it - but realised that it wouldn’t and instead letting go of the hate and facing up to her losses would do it.

As she said, she wanted her life to matter and this was her putulent way of trying to make it matter.

I understand that this is how the game wants to justifiy her "last second realization", but imo it doesn't work. I'm going to repeat myself, but the game wants me to buy that Ellie had this realization in the middle of the most adrenaline filled moment of her journey, after (1) living a somewhat happy life with Dina and seeing how good it could feel, (2) facing the dangers of crossing the country, (3) being gravely injured, (4) having to take an entire fortress of Rattlers and (5) putting a knife to a kid's neck. It seems to me that every single one of these moments could much more plausibly trigger this realization than the one Druckmann chose.
 
All the "game of the year!" or "game of the generation!" claims have been a sure fire way to detect absolute bullshit for a while now.

I'm 35. I have played 2 real game of the year/game of the generation titles in my life: Metal Gear Solid circa 1998 & Resident Evil 4 in 2005. The rest? It ranges from great to garbage. But nothing has defined games like those two titles from my perspective. For example I believe God of War (the original ps2 game) was a wonderful, masterfully crafted title with beautiful art design, combat, music & plot, but it was still just a Devil May Cry-esque beat them all title. Point being: from what I've seen & irrespective of the shit plot & shit political agenda, The Last of Us 2 is still just another crafting/looting/stealth/slow walking game. Let's not act like hiding in the grass & stealth killing an enemy with crafted items earned from loot is "new" or original.

Its animations/graphics will be outdated fast (next gen is just around the corner) & it's not exactly pushing the boundaries of the medium. So what's left? A short period where fanboys of a particular console & other political activists beat everyone over the head with their new champion until people quickly get bored & move on. Although that "banged from behind" buttsecks meme is great though. So there's at least that.

I also don't believe Naughty Dog deserve the praise regarding the tech side considering the sheer amount of backing & time they enjoy. Sure they do a good job, but other dev studios would as well in such "luxurious" favorable circumstances, i.e. circumstances earned from the success of prior titles, lest we forget. Let's see how the fallout settles after this one (i.e. just because a game sells well, it doesn't mean it can't damage reputations future sales).
I'm 36 and I could probably pick a game of the year for every year I've been playing games maybe even some of the years before I was born. is there something keeping you from being able to pick a best game of a specific year?
 

ruvikx

Banned
I'm 36 and I could probably pick a game of the year for every year I've been playing games maybe even some of the years before I was born. is there something keeping you from being able to pick a best game of a specific year?

Sure, easy. No game in any given year stands out as definitively above the rest. It's been that way for a very long time. The rest is all just hype.
 

INC

Member
So heres something that annoys me, on previous ND games you could (once completing the game), use points to unlock different playable characters. Why not in this game?, so I can play as joel, or a clicker

Considering apart from new game plus, no reason to replay

No fat mode, no weird gfx filters, no mutators

Massive missed opportunity tbh
 
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OrionNebula

Member
Regardless of sales, which will be huge, i wonder if Cuckman can survive this long term. The public backlash is immense.

Rian Johnson did


I'm having fun comparing the game to real life. I live near Seattle so it's cool to see it rendered, and the architecture as well as the immediate area they use for the downtown is pretty damn close to reality.

I'm trying to upload screenshots but it's not letting me.

 
The circumstances of Ellie and Tommy surviving the introductory sequence are just comical to me. Abby´s gang is so obsessed with revenge that they travel across the country to kill Joel and host a torture party in a basement where they all sit around high-fiving each other and getting off to this guy getting beaten to death. Abby is even visibly upset at the order to finish the job because she just fucking loves torture so much and wants to keep going.

Then they decide to let the only 2 living witnesses walk away because... that would be somehow beneath them? Cmon bro.
 
The circumstances of Ellie and Tommy surviving the introductory sequence are just comical to me. Abby´s gang is so obsessed with revenge that they travel across the country to kill Joel and host a torture party in a basement where they all sit around high-fiving each other and getting off to this guy getting beaten to death. Abby is even visibly upset at the order to finish the job because she just fucking loves torture so much and wants to keep going.

Then they decide to let the only 2 living witnesses walk away because... that would be somehow beneath them? Cmon bro.
You're seeing the typical revenge story from the opposite end of the spectrum. You might as well ask why the bride in kill Bill left witnesses alive
 

Ulysses 31

Member
The circumstances of Ellie and Tommy surviving the introductory sequence are just comical to me. Abby´s gang is so obsessed with revenge that they travel across the country to kill Joel and host a torture party in a basement where they all sit around high-fiving each other and getting off to this guy getting beaten to death. Abby is even visibly upset at the order to finish the job because she just fucking loves torture so much and wants to keep going.

Then they decide to let the only 2 living witnesses walk away because... that would be somehow beneath them? Cmon bro.
The whole game hinges on the coincidence that Joel saves Abby and then Tommy saying:"That's Joel". :lollipop_grinning: :lollipop_grinning: :lollipop_grinning:
 
The whole game hinges on the coincidence that Joel saves Abby and then Tommy saying:"That's Joel". :lollipop_grinning: :lollipop_grinning: :lollipop_grinning:
That seems like a weird argument to me. I assume they did it that way the game as an anti-violence anti revenge message. So they have the person Abby wants revenge on save her life before she gets her revenge the paint that revenge in a more negative light. This isn't required for the plot it's required for the thematics
 

Ulysses 31

Member
That seems like a weird argument to me. I assume they did it that way the game as an anti-violence anti revenge message. So they have the person Abby wants revenge on save her life before she gets her revenge the paint that revenge in a more negative light. This isn't required for the plot it's required for the thematics
Still could've been written better so that Tommy doesn't give out their identities so easily. :goog_unsure:
 
Thats such a weird complaint I really don't understand the pedantic approach to criticism people use nowadays.
It's called contrived writing. AKA make Joel and Tommy do something out of character so he can die thus setting up the entire game's plot. For example, it would not be contrived if they laid out a well timed ambush preparing for his arrival instead of being surprised Pikachu face when he (and Tommy) tells them their real name. Season 8 of GOT is filled with it.
 
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Ulysses 31

Member
Thats such a weird complaint I really don't understand the pedantic approach to criticism people use nowadays.
It's a dangerous world where caution is advised, Joel was shown to be cautious in the first game so this would fall under inconsistent character writing.

How is it weird that it's expected for established characters to act in character? At least have some hints as to why they would act differently when they do.
 
Joel doesn't offer up the information Tommy does and I don't see how it contradicts Tommy's character. Joel was a ruthless person in the first game I won't deny that but I also won't deny that the idea seems to be but life has been leading since has changed him not to mention the influence of Ellie even then all he does is not call Tommy a liar. Which would be a weird thing to do anyways. I agree with the idea of survival but I don't agree with the idea that Joel should realize part of surviving is not letting someone know his name. is because you have the gift of hindsight that you realize someone knowing his name is important but why should Joel understand that
 
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Mister Wolf

Gold Member
The whole Ellie being resentful of Joel for saving her life from a group of people who weren't going to give her a choice of living or dying because he lied to spare her feelings is a crock of shit. Like something you would see in a soap opera. Add that to the fact that she spares Abby after killing Joel, Jesse, and nearly killing Tommy makes this story unacceptable.
 
The whole Ellie being resentful of Joel for saving her life from a group of people who weren't going to give her a choice of living or dying because he lied to spare her feelings is a crock of shit. Like something you would see in a soap opera. Add that to the fact that she spares Abby after killing Joel, Jesse, and nearly killing Tommy makes this story unacceptable.
If you think cold-blooded revenge is justified then sure the game isn't made for you.
 

sobaka770

Banned
Well here we go, a review after finishing the whole game earlier and collecting some thoughts. There is no TLDR portion and yes, the game does deserve a 10/10 easily so if you’re going to bash me for the upcoming praise, please, do yourself a favour and just skip to next post.

Background: I knew some of the spoilers and I knew of the certain story and apparent SJW-agenda criticisms before starting the game. I came into it, however with a totally open mind. I will no further discuss things like: lesbian romance, transgender characters or muscular women – all of this is in game but is not the focal point of the narrative and therefore it just is and I accept it as such. Also since the focal point of narrative is none of these things I would also not claim that this game is in any way a SJW-propaganda outside of normalising existing personalities and complexions.

I will also very briefly touch on gameplay: I liked the gameplay in part 1, I replayed that game twice and didn’t get bored. TLOU2 is an iterative improvement and therefore if you didn’t like the original – then you wouldn’t like part 2 anyway, but a lot of people did and I appreciate the grounded-ness of the action as well as additional traversal options like grass, larger and more vertical environments, really opening up options on approaching every encounter. Dogs profoundly changed the idea of how to play an encounter and are a great addition (despite the fact that I hated them with passion, and I killed them all without remorse).

I will also say that I fully see why this game is divisive outside of the two points above and that is because it takes large creative risks and aims higher and bolder than the fans expect or willing to go. I am a huge fan of TLJ because it took bold risks with the core assumptions of the Star Wars to make it grow and be more than just more space adventure but it didn’t fit with what the fans wanted. This game does the same to TLOU2 which is bigger and bolder than it had any right to be. I value big ideas, questions they ask, challenges in my perception they force me to overcome and unease a lot more than comfort food entertainment and this is subjectively my stance.

Let us touch on TLOU quickly. The first game is a classic but at the same time it is a simpler story than part 2 with a lot less depth. Ellie and Joel go through a year meeting people of various degree of awful who all die by the end of a chapter usually. The main story is a father-daughter relationship between Ellie and Joel which we see grow over 12-15 hours and is masterfully executed with supporting cast mainly existing to enhance that growth, give more weight to the world and play off the main duo. The ending of TLOU is considered divisive but I would argue that for most people it was a slightly uplifting ending: Joel’s arc is complete, Ellie chooses to believe him for a time and they go back to a fortified city with food and electricity where they can live pretty much “happily” if that is your headcanon.

Obviously, based on that a lot of people expected part 2 to be more of Joel and Ellie having adventures, just like TLJ was supposed to keep the Abrams drive and action drive the story. Only Naughty Dog did the hard thing and the right thing: they went deeper, the made justice to the world and characters instead of fanbase. They knew it would piss a lot of people off because it’s not a safe sequel, but it is a sequel TLOU deserves.

Joel dies in the first 3 hours of the game. People did not like that. Streamers did not like that. All I have to say is – it’s not an easy scene, it is hard and if you hated it, then you should be totally aligned with how Ellie feels in her need for revenge. In that sense Naughty Dog made everything right. I will also add that despite people wanting to see more Joel the reality is: his arc was complete in the first game. He got a surrogate daughter to raise for a couple of years, he got to retire and be happy. There is no other arc more powerful to him at his age and everything about his character was resolved – however in his death a set up for a major arc for Ellie is strong and Ellie is a protagonist who needed her own arc to be kicked off.

I will not discuss all the plot points, but the themes of this story were awesome and I do genuinely feel bad that leaks and some preconceptions ruined it for a lot of the audience. The tragic story of different factions all trying to achieve piece and prosperity only to end up fighting each other over petty differences is so poignant and actual to current world, to our separation as countries, races, ideologies or dare I say even gaming forums. Our little fiefs each convinced of their desire to practice goodness, each having means to achieve that state, each filled with genuinely diverse people good and bad and conflicted but ending up in pointless hatred toward the other instead of seeing individuals within. All of this is done masterfully with slow build-up at the beginning really paying off as everything falls in place by the end.

We see it of course through WLF and the Seraphites, societies that were founded on their notion of peace only to end up in bloodshed and disaster.

We see it also in parallel through Ellie and Abby. Nobody comes out of this as a hero, but through the crucible of irrational personal hatred everyone is humanised. When I saw Joel die, I told to myself, just as Ellie did, that I would kill every single one of them with utter conviction. And so, I did. When I had to play as Abby, I was forced to see how flawed and scarred she was by what Joel did but I was also forced to witness her being more than a person who brutally murdered a man: capable of goodness, just as her friends were, being conflicted about her purpose, dealing with personal issues of affection and beliefs. I knew that people I met were going to die as I perpetrated that death with conviction and their humanity resonated with me as they did not all deserve what they got. The sniper who led zombies to me and killed Manny was a monstrous dick, but he was also Tommy. The bitch that killed Owen, the upifiting conflicted loyal person in the story, first to see the inhumanity of the conflict between WLF and Seraphites, and his pregnant wife was Ellie.

Does it make the characters bad or unlikeable? For some it may be so but to me it felt more real than anything because everything they did from their perspective was right. They wanted closure, they wanted peace but just as the tribes, they found war and suffering and pain instead. Characters are written cohesively, strongly, they don't betray their identity and I doubt a lot of people would be unmoved by the end of it all as the final confrontation unfolds.

TLOU2 is a second part of what I assume will be at least a trilogy. The second part is supposed to be the most challenging for protagonists, it’s supposed to be darker and the be the lowest point of the story. Neil sacrifices all the sacred cows for this one, creates a hell of a ride and coupled with maybe best setpieces ND has created so far and refined gameplay, this one is easily GOTY material and I don’t think anything can match it up barring Cyberpunk later this year. For PS4 action games it is to me GOTG, above God of War once again in terms of narrative challenge the gameplay being stellar in both.

Lastly, no - this game is not perfect. No game or work of art is and 10/10 doesn't mean perfection in every detail nor should it, it means a stellar whole an acceptance of greatness with all its cracks and imperfections. I will just say that it is known that if people are predisposed to like something, they will often overlook the little things, the nitpicks, the coincidences that fuel almost every plot. But when they are predisposed to hatred, or being challenged especially emotionally – they will find the smallest thing jarring and off-putting. So yes, I know some plot relies on coincidences and minor contrivances, the pacing is not perfect either and Abby is swole AF. It is ironic that the game encapsulates the feeling of an audience bitching about these things to the point of going to Metacritic for 0/0 reviews on launch minute perfectly as they are all Ellie (or Abby) on the same revenge quest for the murder of part 1 (and let’s be honest a lot of headcanon) with that hatred blinding to the fascinating ideas behind part 2 and to all the people making us go through these emotions in this challenging work with general goodness in their heart.

The experience of playing through TLOU2, with no preconceptions and letting the ideas, story and emotions gel into a cohesive whole is a transformative experience and I wish all of you to feel that. It is not a fun game but is an important game with a clear vision and thank Sony for allowing such auteur games to exist with such budget and trust.

10/10 – will replay on PS5.

Parting thoughts: Hospital fight, sky ladders and burning city are worth the price of admission alone. Museum and Aquarium are gorgeous locations. Fuck wall-incrusted shriekers and fuck dogs – shotgun em all.
 
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StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Rian Johnson did





ND and Sony put a lot of money into production values. Solid graphics, animations, fine details when looking around buildings and bookshelves, tons of cut scenes, endless voice actors. It's like 3/4 of the budget went to non-gaming parts of LoU 2.

Just imagine how good the game would be if they shifted half those resources to gameplay.
 
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StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Just added an addition for the trans character Lev at the bottom.

For anyone late to the party, here's the quick spoiler plot of the game:

- You play half the game as Ellie and half as Abby
- Abby is the daughter of the killed surgeon from the first game. She is out for revenge trying to find Joel
- Ellie and Dina are lesbians and hook up
- Dina has a kid
- Joel and Tommy acts like idiots and get ambushed by Abby and crew
- Abby kills Joel, but let's Ellie and Tommy go (ya, pretty dumb)
- Abby's story is basically concurrent as Ellie's gameplay and you lead up to a showdown vs Ellie and Dina, in which Abby beats them up but lets them go
- Ellie goes on a hunt for Abby
- The final fight is Ellie finding Abby (who was captured) and they fight in the water. Abby's trans sidekick Lev is knocked out already
- After a slew of QTE kinds of fighting, it ends with Abby biting off Ellie's fingers, and Ellie letting them go after a life or death fight (ya, pretty dumb again). Abby and Lev sailing away on a motorboat into the horizon
- Ellie cries and the game ends with some flashbacks including Joel, and finds out Dina and the baby are long gone as they moved out of the farmhouse, and Ellie unable to play a guitar correctly as she's got two fingers bitten off
- So what's left is a dead Joel, miserable Ellie, Abby and Lev sailed away and Dina and her baby are nowhere in sight
- The end



- The game has barely anything to do with zombies, finding a cure or anything related to that
- Throughout the game there's numersous sexual stuff like Ellie and Dina smooching and flirting, Owen screwing Abby from behind
- Numerous SJW/virtue signaling topics. Joel killed off early. Main characters all female, Ellie and Dina lesbians, Abby a she-hulk, Lev trans, a "bigot sandwich" scene at the dance party where an old white guy calls them out for being lesbians and he gets told to get lost as a bigot
- If you;re someone who supports trans characters, you better look elsewhere. There was talk on Reee that even the trans community doesn't like the character. Lev is a young Asian trans character with minimal plot. Throughout the game, Lev seems to hang around Abby and the background is Lev killed his/her mom. Lev also gets the shit beat out of him/her later in the game with a phenomenal giant punch into a garage door (find a clip of it. Possibly the best animation in the whole game which makes fighting games pale in comparison), and at the end of the game is basically a comatose victim in a boat. As the trans community didn't like, Lev is basically a stereotyped abuse individual and a follower
 
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Umbral

Member
Joel doesn't offer up the information Tommy does and I don't see how it contradicts Tommy's character. Joel was a ruthless person in the first game I won't deny that but I also won't deny that the idea seems to be but life has been leading since has changed him not to mention the influence of Ellie even then all he does is not call Tommy a liar. Which would be a weird thing to do anyways. I agree with the idea of survival but I don't agree with the idea that Joel should realize part of surviving is not letting someone know his name. is because you have the gift of hindsight that you realize someone knowing his name is important but why should Joel understand that
Time has passed since the first game but they never demonstrate that Joel has softened or lost his edge before the incident. The only information we have to go off of is the Joel we know from the first game, who would not have found himself in that kind of situation.
 
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