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[Psykodad]

Yea and suddenly when the rumored TFlops from fake insiders turned out to be bullshit all anyone talks about now is the SSD.

Well, we got Epic praising PS5 SSD as well, along with their UE5 being built with that in mind (and a playable tech demo to come along with it).
So it has it's merits.

Meanwhile, MS' PR is all over the place.
And they've actually been relatively silent ever since Road to PS5, compared to all their boasting after the XSX reveal.
And suddenly tgey're talking about how sales don't matter and now Tflops don't matter anymore either.

I think people should lower their expectations for the XSX July event.

 

[geordiemp]

Nice to hear comments from an MS engineer about how it is to develop on a ps5 dev kit he does not have access to. How would he know lol

I think I would rather hear from engineers that do have ps5 dev kits.

I would rather listen to tim sweeny and Epic games, they have both..

I'm waiting for that Georgie guy to arrive, and tell us everything, Master Cerny taught him last night. I love reading how something negative, can be spun around to something positive, and even better than the original. "Consuming Sony digital food is superior to real food, because you have the option to purchase the DLC appetizer!" Wtf?!

Why dont you try reading something, or try saying something that does not make you sound like a 12 year old.

He said optimize, not develop.

Ah so he can fine tune ps5 games now after developing them......

Ok I am out, getting stupid in here.

 

[Jigsaah]

Yes he said optimize but, doesn't he know that PS5 devkits have fixed clocks so that devs don't need no extra work on optimization?... Looks like a good solution for the doubts he raises.
If that was a jab at ps5 its poor and uninformed one.

He said optimize, not develop.

Isn't optimization part of the process of development? Either way, so they are saying they could have been theoretically even more powerful with the same devices?

Also what does this mean for Sony, ya know, given that they did choose the variable route?

 

[Jigsaah]

Nice to hear comments from an MS engineer about how it is to develop on a dev kit he does not have access to. How would he know lol

I think I would rather hear from engineers that do have ps5 dev kits.

I would rather listen to tim sweeny and Epic games, they have both..



Why dont you try reading something, or try saying something that does not make you sound like a 12 year old.

MS Engineer...who had a hand in making the devkit...doesn't have access to the devkit?

What do you mean??

 

[TheCrimsnFuckr]

I mean, I'm inclined to agree with the reasoning here. They want to have something stable and consistent and they want it to be as easy to develop for as possible. It's why they use DirectX, it's why they have made the API the same as on PC, and why they wanted locked clocks and consistent speed for everything including the SSD

 

[Rikkori]

He's absolutely right.

But all I care about is that we also get Direct Storage on PC. For the rest they can fight amongst themselves. We out here with 20+ TF GPUs anyway, looking for that magical 30 next.

 

[yurqqa]

God, it's just sad so many people can't read...

The idea is that they could go even further, but they wanted to give developers a stable performance target.

Where do they say TFLOPS don't matter ? They say it's not important to go as high as possible and get a downside - that's it.

 

[geordiemp]

MS Engineer...who had a hand in making the devkit...doesn't have access to the devkit?

What do you mean??

Ps5 devkit.

Jesus.

 

[93xfan]

The only people who talk 24/7 about TFLOPS are the Xbox marketing guys and their fanboys, and that's at least since the Xbox One X.

A lot of people make the assumption that the same people who are leaning towards Xbox now are the same people who were cheering them on in 2013.

I swore off Xbox in 2013 and was majorly in the PS4 camp. Then I slowly realized that they will never bring back my PS1 and PS2 digital library from the PS3 days. They also closed down the Socom servers and never brought back even a remastered multiplayer. Socom 2 was possibly my favorite online game ever. That’s how Sony lost me.

Meanwhile, MS really put in the work with backwards compatibility. On top of that, they made the Halo MCC a reality. While a major disappointment at first, they eventually fixed it and it has a very large population. Halo online with dedicated servers and at 60FPS is a dream come true.

Add in Gamepass and plenty of pro consumer things like Smart Delivery and upgraded titles for free as well as more powerful hardware for multiplatform games and it’s an easy decision for a gamer with my tastes.

 

[DoctaThompson]

MS Engineer...who had a hand in making the devkit...doesn't have access to the devkit?

What do you mean??

It's a response you'd expect from a 12 year old. But of course people will have a little extra sodium from threads like this. This will be an interesting read nonetheless. I'm ready for all the new possibilities of spinning to a new level.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

It's a response you'd expect from a 12 year old. But of course people will have a little extra sodium from threads like this. This will be an interesting read nonetheless. I'm ready for all the new possibilities of spinning to a new level.

He was obviously talking about the PS5 devkit

 

[Captain Hero]

Good thinking .. Now you have only one thing to do ..


Turn that words into actions please .. fans don’t give a shit if you use fixed or variable speeds .. fans don’t give a shit if your boss feel good about your position against Sony .. nobody cares just show that you did understand what gamers want

GAMES

 

[geordiemp]

He was obviously talking about the PS5 devkit

You dont say, I need to check on my son, at least he is not as daft as half of them in here.

 

[Rolla]

I was thinking that I must be in the twilight zone because TFLOPS is something XBOX pushed heavily since the series X reveal.

I don't get the pivot from their marketing push to this recent statement.

 

[DoctaThompson]

He was obviously talking about the PS5 devkit

Does that change the facts of the article at all? I'm unsure of when variable clocks would be better than fixed clocks. Maybe if you want to save a little on power bill. But in performance, you would prefer max clocks, at ALL times, not a fraction of the time. YMMV

 

[Great Hair]

Funny how all of the talk about how the PS4 ran games at 1080p and the Xbox One ran games at 720p/900p magically vanished in a puff a smoke as soon as the Xbox One X came out.

How ironic and hypocritical at the same time. Thanks for admitting it.
What ever powers your dream ....

 

[Akuji]

I'm VERY pleased that Microsoft decided to go with fixed clocks as it's simply better than variable. Super hyped for Xbox Series X!!!

leaving potential performance on the table is "simply better"?
lol thats why nvidia gpus always have one clock speed.
wait the dont ...
they dont even ever use the clock speeds they advertise. they "boost" higher

 

[Peenolia010]

Oh boy, do we reach page 10 today or tomorrow?

Post like yours is golden and makes my day.

Theres nothing wrong with threads so to speak, its just certain members have a hard time with being levelheaded when giving there opinions.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Does that change the facts of the article at all? I'm unsure of when variable clocks would be better than fixed clocks. Maybe if you want to save a little on power bill. But in performance, you would prefer max clocks, at ALL times, not a fraction of the time. YMMV

Both have their advantages. Variable lets you get clock speeds you wouldn't otherwise manage to achieve. Fixed gets you consistent performance. It's not a black and white you'd want one over the other.

What isn't an advantage like this Microsoft engineer assumed, is that it'll be easier to optimize on their platform because they have fixed clocks, because developers on PS5 can also have fixed clocks.

 

[Clandsiota]

They are right though, even Cerny said something similar:

Mark Cerny sees a time where developers will begin to optimise their game engines in a different way - to achieve optimal performance for the given power level. "Power plays a role when optimising. If you optimise and keep the power the same you see all of the benefit of the optimisation. If you optimise and increase the power then you're giving a bit of the performance back. What's most interesting here is optimisation for power consumption, if you can modify your code so that it has the same absolute performance but reduced power then that is a win. "

In short, the idea is that developers may learn to optimise in a different way, by achieving identical results from the GPU but doing it faster via increased clocks delivered by optimising for power consumption. "The CPU and GPU each have a power budget, of course the GPU power budget is the larger of the two," adds Cerny. "If the CPU doesn't use its power budget - for example, if it is capped at 3.5GHz - then the unused portion of the budget goes to the GPU.

basically, devs have to build their games around power consumption due to the way ps5 clocks work. With XSX they do not have to do this at all.

 

[massivekettle]

Nice to hear comments from an MS engineer about how it is to develop on a dev kit he does not have access to. How would he know lol

I think I would rather hear from engineers that do have ps5 dev kits.

I would rather listen to tim sweeny and Epic games, they have both..

Except Tim Sweeney waxing lyrical about the PS5 is probably marketing-driven in some ways as Epic has grown quite close to Sony over the years, and the reveal of their new engine on PS5 was probably a deal struck.

The reality is, until both consoles and multiplatform games are out, and developers can talk freely, we won't genuinely know which console is faster, and which is easier to develop for. Anything we've heard to date and until launch is 90% marketing spiel. On both sides.

 

[MasterCornholio]

MS Engineer...who had a hand in making the devkit...doesn't have access to the devkit?

What do you mean??

I think he's talking about the PS5s developer kit.

 

[01011001]

Variable Clocks are a bad thing. I know some (especially fanboys and of course Sony) want to present it in a good light, but that's kinda ridiculous.
they are a necessity not the ideal.

if Sony could have the System run at full speed at all times with no thermal or noise issues they would. but they can't so that's the second best choice.
so of course if you don't need to do this, then why would you do it?

 

[geordiemp]

Except Tim Sweeney waxing lyrical about the PS5 is probably marketing-driven in some ways as Epic has grown quite close to Sony over the years, and the reveal of their new engine on PS5 was probably a deal struck.

The reality is, until both consoles and multiplatform games are out, and developers can talk freely, we won't genuinely know which console is faster, and which is easier to develop for. Anything we've heard to date and until launch is 90% marketing spiel. On both sides.

There was no deal struck, Tim sweeny said so clearly, go look yourself.

Back on topic, has anyone thought that Sony, having published a patent on cooling apu from the back (and also allows stacked die or both side cooling) .....actually had a high clock strategy all along. God forbid.

ISonys cooling is patented, if they are using that maybe thats why others dont follow. Lets wait and see what the cooling is first.

The facts are Cerny said they wanted a fast and narrow design, and they filed a cooling patent that allows cooling front and back of an APU.

But hey, follow whatever FUD narrative you guys want. Its about time MS showed and talked a bit less.

 

[Jtibh]

Soo much pr bullshit from microsoft as of late.

Shut your mouth and let the games talk.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Variable Clocks are a bad thing. I know some (especially fanboys) want to present it in that light, but that's kinda ridiculous.
they are a necessity not the ideal.

if Sony could have the System run at full speed at all times with no thermal or noise issues they would. but they can't so that's the second best choice.
so of course if you don't need to do this, then why would you do it?

Ridiculous. It's not a bad thing when it lets them achieve clocks they couldn't by opting for a fixed clock

Yeah in a perfect world Sony could just go balls to the walls with clocks without having to worry about thermals or noise. Same with Microsoft.

If we were in a perfect world.

 

[sonomamashine]

There was no deal struck, Tim sweeny said so clearly, go look yourself.

This is funny, let me ask you a simple question
Do you think that if they didn't use Sony to announce UE5 they would have the same attention or not ?
This is just one tiny part of the DEAL.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

This is funny, let me ask you a simple question
Do you think that if they didn't use Sony to announce UE5 they would have the same attention or not ?
This is just one tiny part of the DEAL.

 

[geordiemp]

This is funny, let me ask you a simple question
Do you think that if they didn't use Sony to announce UE5 they would have the same attention or not ?
This is just one tiny part of the DEAL.

I will let Tim sweeny answer....

Now that was funny.

 

[Monkeygourmet]

They are not fixed.

They are variable - tethered from Series S

 

[SlimySnake]

So many interviews, same snarky little pot shots at the PS5. It's pretty much a daily occurrence at this point. All these guys do is hurl petty little passive aggressive insults at Sony. You gotta wonder if this is PTSD from the time Jack went up on that stage and laughed it up for five minutes or that used game share video with Shu and Adam Boyes. This just screams insecurity. First it was 'WE ARE THE MOST POWERFUL' talk before the PS5 was even revealed. It's like a guy with a big dick went around screaming i have a big dick. You never see that because people with big dicks dont have to advertise it. And now, after they have literally won the war of specs, they are still going after sony literally everyday. It was Phil yesterday, and now this guy. He's not even a suit. he is basically their Mark Cerny and he's mocking Cerny's design.

The only way this makes sense if these guys are kids who were so butthurt over getting made fun of, they have kept it with them for 7 long years and are finally coming out to have their revenge. It might make them feel good, but it does not make them look good. Just petty and insecure.

 

[sendit]

 

[CatLady]

You're so right. All this never-ending damage control from Sony fans looks like nothing but

 

[LazyParrot]

I'm VERY pleased that Microsoft decided to go with fixed clocks as it's simply better than variable. Super hyped for Xbox Series X!!!

If it's that much better, why don't any PC GPUs use it?

 

[Panajev2001a]

MS Engineer...who had a hand in making the devkit...doesn't have access to the devkit?

What do you mean??

I think he is taking about the other console and btw, not sure Jason Ronald is an engineer: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jason-ronald-697ba81 although this is neither here nor there and maybe he has the tech chops.

 

[massivekettle]

There was no deal struck, Tim sweeny said so clearly, go look yourself.

Back on topic, has anyone thought that Sony, having published a patent on cooling apu from the back (and also allows stacked die or both side cooling) .....actually had a high clock strategy all along. God forbid.

ISonys cooling is patented, if they are using that maybe thats why others dont follow. Lets wait and see what the cooling is first.

The facts are Cerny said they wanted a fast and narrow design, and they filed a cooling patent that allows cooling front and back of an APU.

But hey, follow whatever FUD narrative you guys want. Its about time MS showed and talked a bit less.

I don't want to get drawn into petty console power arguments. I have no skin in this.

Epic has been working closely with Sony on the PS5 storage architecture, hence you'd be pretty sure he'd want to promote it as much as he can.

The showcase of the new Unreal Engine is as much a marketing tool for Sony as it is for Epic.

 

[sendit]

Funny how all of the talk about how the PS4 ran games at 1080p and the Xbox One ran games at 720p/900p magically vanished in a puff a smoke as soon as the Xbox One X came out.

The point has been driven in to the ground. Xbox One still runs those games at 720p/900p. Xbox One X 6TF still had to downgrade its resolution for RE2 Remake to match the same FPS output as a 4 TF PS4 Pro.

We can just chalk that up as "Optimized for the Xbox One X".

 

[LeftThumbstick]

You dont say, I need to check on my son, at least he is not as daft as half of them in here.

Can you point out the part where they said they are no longer interested in TF's anymore? I can't see it, because what they're actually saying is that they too could've used a variable clock or boosted, but they wanted a locked, consistent performance target which makes it super easy for devs to work against. Being an Engineer at one of the 3 main console manufacturers and probably had a good hand in building the very console he's describing, i'm sure he knows far, far more than you in regards to how a variable clock rate works and the advatanaged of both fixed and variable.

Microsoft didn't write the Neogaf thread title by the way, they did not say "we're not interested in tflop numbers". I think a lot of people like to spread nothing but FUD when it comes to Xbox on here. All i'm saying that if this were a thread about a Sony employee bragging about that magical GPU enhancing SSD, this thread would be a completely different place.

 

[Psykodad]

This is funny, let me ask you a simple question
Do you think that if they didn't use Sony to announce UE5 they would have the same attention or not ?
This is just one tiny part of the DEAL.

Or, like they said, UE5 is built specifically to make full use of the PS5 high speed SSD.

They don't need a marketing-deal for that.

 

[Mister Wolf]

He's just being honest.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

You're so right. All this never-ending damage control from Sony fans looks like nothing but

These bogeymen you've conjured up in your head claiming 10.2 > 12.1 don't exist lol

 

[Tomeru]

He said optimize, not develop.

Is that not part of developing?

 

[sonomamashine]

I will let Tim sweeny answer....

Now that was funny.

The deal was to make a Demo tailor made for Sony to showcase the SSD, Sony got what she wanted and Sweeney got what he wanted (Publicity for UE5) you attach that to PS5 to get a better audience, check out Unreal youtube channel & look how bad the views are on their video's, of course there are other things attached to the deal but that what comes to mind right now.
If you believe everything said by Tim Sweeney then... lol he's selling

 

[geordiemp]

Can you point out the part where they said they are no longer interested in TF's anymore? I can't see it, because what they're actually saying is that they too could've used a variable clock or boosted, but they wanted a locked, consistent performance target which makes it super easy for devs to work against. Being an Engineer at one of the 3 main console manufacturers and probably had a good hand in building the very console he's describing, i'm sure he knows far, far more than you in regards to how a variable clock rate works and the advatanaged of both fixed and variable.

Microsoft didn't write the Neogaf thread title by the way, they did not say "we're not interested in tflop numbers". I think a lot of people like to spread nothing but FUD when it comes to Xbox on here. All i'm saying that if this were a thread about a Sony employee bragging about that magical GPU enhancing SSD, this thread would be a completely different place.

And maybe Cerny is just making it up ? Timestamped.



Also consider the sony patent on cooling - we have not seen it yet. Is 22 % GPU extra speed worth it ? We shall see.

When triangles are small discussion from cernys speech, what do you think he is referring to ?

What else had lots of small traingles............

 

[Wizz-Art]

One eats monsters for breakfast and the other one is just weak. And what's wrong with that...

 

[kretos]

MS has been humiliated for 7 years straight just show us the good games you have or stfu with this bullshit that most people don't care about

 

[Hawking Radiation]

Microsoft is so transparently jealous. If your that confident in your engineering decisions then let your exclusive games do the talking.

Wait never mind... I understand Microsoft carry on then.

Yep. Said it before and will say it again.

Sony talks when they need to and they generally let the games do it for them.

With MS though...

 

[Batiman]

People getting all salty with a click bait article

 

[Jigsaah]

Ps5 devkit.

Jesus.

But he wasn't talking about the PS5 dev kit. I don't think what he's saying has any bearing on the PS5 Devkit, nor do i think that he was insinuating that.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Im ready to see that 12 teraflop Halo infinite.