Lort
Banned
im pretty sure i just explained that .. and lets be honest i did not shout or even call anyone “dumb”.
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im pretty sure i just explained that .. and lets be honest i did not shout or even call anyone “dumb”.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
I am not sure they even bother. Their remaining fans are diehards (almost by definition) who would probably not jump ship even if Xbox Division shuts down. I guess the PR department needed to get their paychecks somehow.
Thirty7ven
Banned
Ah! Now tell us which hardware block exclusive to XSX is responsible for sampling the previous scene and precaching the data?
ArcaneNLSC
Member
So, just wanted to point out that we went from
2.4 raw - > 4.8 Compressed
to
2.4 raw -> 4.8 compressed, but actually 6
to
2.4 raw -> 6 compressed x 2 = 12
to 2.4 raw x 2.5 -> 12 compressed x 2.5
I predict, sometime next week, that we will be at
The power of the cloud will make the return
sircaw
Banned
So, just wanted to point out that we went from
2.4 raw - > 4.8 Compressed
to
2.4 raw -> 4.8 compressed, but actually 6
to
2.4 raw -> 6 compressed x 2 = 12
to 2.4 raw x 2.5 -> 12 compressed x 2.5
I predict, sometime next week, that we will be at
This is the kinda bullshit Microsoft does, i remember one of the videos a month ago, and i said they were being dishonest in that, but xbots were like no no no, its not misleading.
I am surprised there is not a watchdog for this kinda crap where they get fined for purposely trying to mislead people. The real horrid thing about all this is people will just keep arguing and defending this disgusting type of behaviour. People talk about "Oh, there so pro consumer" Look at this shit they are doing, this is like the most anti consumer stance they could take. Openly misleading and lying to customers is just not right, STOP DEFENDING IT PEOPLE.
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Dodkrake
Banned
I would agree no court would fine them over this. They are being creative with words, but they are giving accurate information. Then they let people extrapolate. But the essence of the information is truthful. And let's face it, every company does it, even Sony. The difference is that Sony is a Japanese company and they are usually more practical with their communication (nowadays, they were a shitshow in the PS3 era).
Just look at Apple and their "super retina HD + sharpness bazooka display" which is nothing more than a second grade Samsung display.
sircaw
Banned
It's that line they skirt around, i hate it. I just think there ethics suck.
It should be like proper Journalists. i want the news not their slant or activist view point on how they think things should be reported.
pawel86ck
Banned
Besides MS no one can say for sure how much data was moved during that 5-6 seconds (quick resume feature). XSX has HW decompression but I'm not so sure if it has HW compression. They are probably saving entire memory dump (up to 12GB if these were x enhanced games) rather than compressed down to something much smaller. Later on they also need to load again similar amout of data from different save state.
Handy Fake
Member
When did SFS become such a huge deal?
Secret Fucking Sauce?
Secret Fucking Sauce?
DaGwaphics
Member
What did they "Openly mislead and lie about" now? LOL
I'm guessing the rough 2.5 comes from data they obtained using the hardware profiler on the one x and just gave an average. People forget since Microsoft is putting games on the PC to day 1 they need solutions that can be implemented on the PC and are cheap enough to be adopted. They don't have the luxury of doing what they want and letting 3rd parties figure out the PC port.
As textures have ballooned in size to match 4K displays, efficiency in memory utilisation has got progressively worse - something Microsoft was able to confirm by building in special monitoring hardware into Xbox One X's Scorpio Engine SoC. "From this, we found a game typically accessed at best only one-half to one-third of their allocated pages over long windows of time," says Goossen. "So if a game never had to load pages that are ultimately never actually used, that means a 2-3x multiplier on the effective amount of physical memory, and a 2-3x multiplier on our effective IO performance."
Inside Xbox Series X: the full specs
This is it. After months of teaser trailers, blog posts and even the occasional leak, we can finally reveal firm, hard …
www.eurogamer.net
pawel86ck
Banned
It's Sony strategy as well and if you think otherwise then tell me if 5.5GB/s SSD is sustained or peak raw transfer? I also want to know how much PS5 GPU will downclock in the worst possible scenario. Cerny has said "not much", but I want to know exactly.
geordiemp
Member
1. Instant access
2. 2.5 x less memory than a baseline something whatever
We now have posters claiming XSX is less latent because of instant, and 15 Gbs because of 2.5 x.
Most are easily confused by vague wording, and its on purpose.
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sircaw
Banned
Its the vagueness and intentional wording. Read the last 5 pages, read the post above this one. Its there, on a plate for you. If you think its, fine, more power to you, i don't. sorry.
Thirty7ven
Banned
If you watch the Road to PS5, Cerny explains they targeted at least 5, gave the reasons for it and said they ended up achieving 5.5.
If you come away from the detailed information given by Sony and the feedback from devs with such nagging suspicion, then it’s incomprehensible how you believe anything from the other guys without painting yourself as a foolish fanboy.
Neo Blaster
Member
Just like other terms, DirectStorage is just a fancy name to getting rid of all that I/O bloated layers, courtesy of Windows, and going straight to the needed data. However, it must still have more hardware abstraction than what Sony is using in their API, cause it's got to support PC.
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Daniel_Mallorca1985
Member
Found to be fake supposedly. Really good one though.
Edit: some of the comments in the post say it can't be identified if it is
pawel86ck
Banned
Cerny didnt mentioned if 5.5GB/s is sustained and I'm not intersted in your interpretation.
saintjules
Member
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
Ar¢tos
Member
Please stop!So, just wanted to point out that we went from
2.4 raw - > 4.8 Compressed
to
2.4 raw -> 4.8 compressed, but actually 6
to
2.4 raw -> 6 compressed x 2 = 12
to 2.4 raw x 2.5 -> 12 compressed x 2.5
I predict, sometime next week, that we will be at
It is ALL true!*
* but the magic multipliers only apply to 0.1% of the data read from the SSD
Bo_Hazem
Banned
I believe first would be Sony TV's, X950H for example can already detect the surroundings and viewer distance: (timestamped)
Not sure about other lesser models, but that detector would play a big role in speeding the home theater 3D audio setup. It's always a safer bet to pick a Sony TV.
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Thirty7ven
Banned
And MS didn’t say if XSX has geometry culling capabilities. That’s going to be a huge problem for them if they don’t(lol).
But sure you can argue if.
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Dodkrake
Banned
zaitsu
Banned
1. Sustained , peak is 22 gb/s without oodle textures , could be around 30 Gb/s peak with that.
2. We know for sure that it isnt more than 10%*safe number*
By-mission
Member
Cerny diz que a velocidade é 5.5 Gb / s RAW e entre 8 e 9 Gb / s compactados, e com picos de até 22 Gb / s ... Talvez você queira ver isso em "Road to PS5".
Isso se você estiver ignorando o compactador de textura Oddle ... uma média de 40 a 60% de compactação de textura ... Só estou dizendo que esses números aumentarão ..
Isso se você estiver ignorando o compactador de textura Oddle ... uma média de 40 a 60% de compactação de textura ... Só estou dizendo que esses números aumentarão ..
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Neo Blaster
Member
Let's summarize:
Custom SSD
Raw speed: 5.5 GB/s(PS5) > 2.4 GB/s(XSX)
Hardware decompression block
Kraken+Oodle Textures/Zlib(PS5) >=(?) BCPack/Zlib(XSX)
Storage access API
Hardware specific(PS5) > DirectStorage(XSX) (Sony's API is more efficient cause support is for only one hardware, MS' must support Xbox and PC)
Texture streaming efficiency
Software(Partially Resident Textures) + hardware(cache scrubbers, coherency engines, two co-processors, on-chip RAM pool, DMA dedicated controller)(PS5) > SFS(software solution)(XSX)
But SFS and BCPack will not just close the gap, it will exceed it...
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Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
... What are you talking about?
Dodkrake
Banned
And now we have the reverse side, people exaggerating the PS5 side of the deal.
From what I can understand, the PS5 decompressor can handle 22GB/s. So, no matter how much you compress, you cannot exceed 22GB/s of compressed data. That's it. What may happen with Oodle Texture on top of Kraken is that your effective average may jump from 8 or 9GB/s to 13 / 15GB/s. I still don't believe it, those are ridiculous numbers.
In any case, please don't spread misinformation.
From what I can understand, the PS5 decompressor can handle 22GB/s. So, no matter how much you compress, you cannot exceed 22GB/s of compressed data. That's it. What may happen with Oodle Texture on top of Kraken is that your effective average may jump from 8 or 9GB/s to 13 / 15GB/s. I still don't believe it, those are ridiculous numbers.
In any case, please don't spread misinformation.
By-mission
Member
Cerny says the speed is 5.5 Gb / s RAW and between 8 and 9 Gb / s compressed, with peaks of up to 22 Gb / s ... You might want to see that in "Road to PS5".
That's if you're ignoring the Oddle texture compactor ... an average of 40 to 60% texture compaction ... I'm just saying that these numbers will increase.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
They would support it but it will never ever reach HRTF level accuracy, not even 5%. But expect Dolby Atmos to merge those sound sources to like 32 max or a refined 7.2 signal.
This is with Dolby Atmos through built in speakers, but it's more obvious and rewarding it it's packed with Acoustic Multi-Audio that gives you the feeling of sound coming from the screen like 65" models of X900H and X950H and other OLED and 8K tv's they have.
Found in older models as well like X950G
And for home theater:
Hear sound as you would from a separate multi surround speaker. By upconverting inputs, S-Force Front Surround virtually reproduces a multi surround speaker system within your TV so you can enjoy all the thrills of more immersive sound.
How good they would sound? Not sure, I've been using only headphones for PC, gaming, netflix for like 6-7 years now, so it should be something I would worry about but should be complimentary to have them do such effort to make even built it speakers and HT matter.
Hope this helps.
MastaKiiLA
Member
Y'all squabbling over split hairs, just to realize this winter that games will look the same on both consoles, unless you break out the by-knock-you-larz to see the one pixel that's out of place. The things that makes me laugh is the people who complained about each system's recent showings not differing much from the current gen, then trying to stake a claim to an even smaller power gap being meaningful to overall graphical performance. If you don't think next-gen looks different from current gen, then forget about one next-gen machine being distinguishable from the other. Shit ain't that serious.
DaGwaphics
Member
I see plenty of nonsense from Sony fans too (That 60x faster io comes to mind), I don't hold Sony accountable for idiotic statements I read online.
What can you say about number 1, it's by its own nature a hyperbolic word in common usage. Most people get it in the right context.
2, the comparison there is obviously about 1X, they have never mislead on the SSD speed. There are several ways they could have, like listing the 4.8 with no qualifiers, etc. If they've solved some of the primary problems with resident textures, the inefficient lookup processes and the misses caused by that, for example, good on them. Them emphasizing greater memory efficiency likely has more to do with 1X than PS, at face value 12GB to 16GB is a very small jump.
Entroyp
Member
Makes me wonder why wont MS just slap a TI-85 as a GPU and load DXIIU magic edition to turn it into a “25” TF monster with infinite I/O speed. Saves you the cost of an expensive AMD GPU or customs silicon.
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Insane Metal
Member
Dat forest at 5:49. Holy shit!
Entroyp
Member
So, just wanted to point out that we went from
2.4 raw - > 4.8 Compressed
to
2.4 raw -> 4.8 compressed, but actually 6
to
2.4 raw -> 6 compressed x 2 = 12
to 2.4 raw x 2.5 -> 12 compressed x 2.5
I predict, sometime next week, that we will be at
This is eerily reminding me of my differential equations class back in college.
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
NO NO NO.
hope your 40 virgins awaiting you in heaven are fat, old and like to go shopping alot with your credit cards.
That will teach you.
You got me cornered
Can't counter that. But I would rather introduce you to your piranha cousins.
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Neo Blaster
Member
RAM memory, not storage.
sircaw
Banned
You see that word too that is highlighted
You are admitting Microsoft are being misleading.
Ok gotcha, thanks bud. CASE FUCKING SOLVED.
Why not just say that in your first post you linked instead of saying I quote. What did they "Openly mislead and lie about" now? LOL
Come on dude, be better. If its bullshit call it out, if Sony does it call it out. If anyone does it call it out.
Microsoft have been flooding the airways over the last few months with a constant barriage of information.
They know what they are doing.
sircaw
Banned
You got me cornered
You don't UNDERSTAND BO, I AM THEIR LEADER.
NEXT TIME you take a trip to the ocean, remember, we are in there.
That last bit reminded me of , WE ARE VENOM
Don't mind me heh
Bo_Hazem
Banned
This is actually pretty damn impressive considering the frame time limit for 30FPS (33.3ms) and 60FPS (16.7ms). Formula is 1000milliseconds/FPS the game’s currently running at. So since it says the frame time the PS5 achieved just through geometry rendering is “comfortably in budget” for 60FPS output, that means even after rendering the entire frame (including the GeometryBuffer and everything else), PS5’s frame time will still probably be under 10ms. Meaning it can easily run the UE5 demo at 4K@60FPS.
Well, that's when you have a state-of-the-art tech, you're always in the comfort zone.
jasondefaoite
Member
pawel86ck
Banned
I have watched Cerny "the road to PS5" presentation on YT, but there's no definitive answer there (and the same with GPU clock). On PC no one gives average raw numbers for SSD, but only peak, so if you buy the fastest possible SSD on PC, it's average speed will be slower. If PS5 SSD has sustained 5.5 GB/s read transfer than it's peak transfer would be much higher. I just want a definitive answer from sony, because I dont want to base my opinions on guesses and different interpretations.
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DaGwaphics
Member
The key word was "fans", I see a lot of BS from both Sony and MS fans, to be sure. I don't hold MS or Sony accountable for fan reactions. MS's official statements have been PR heavy, but I don't see anything that could construed as lies. Just a difference in viewpoint, I guess.
Even the 25TF thing appears reasonably measured when you look at RT performance when 100% software based vs. with hardware acceleration.
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
I believe both consoles are designed in a way that their RAW speed is consistent, unlike PC.
I know that's what MS is saying about XSX; there's no throttling for whatever reason and IIRC Sony has said the same thing about PS5.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Saw this image floating around, XVA better than PS5's I/O complex confirmed. Misinformation is around the corner. People just outright refuse to accept PS5 has an advantage over XSX. Funny enough, this is the same people that gets mad at others who can't accept the GPU advantage on XSX.
Microsoft knows that their followers can be easily manipulated, now a new cycle of FUD is on.
Just don't mind that 11sec loading screen of State of Decay 2 on XSX.
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