sircaw
Banned
I be Ralph, you be piggy.
funny enough that was the second book i ever read.
The first one gave me nightmares, best not to speak its name.
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I be Ralph, you be piggy.
funny enough that was the second book i ever read.
The first one gave me nightmares, best not to speak its name.
D
Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
I think all those numbers are off though, the PS5 isn't going to be $399, that's just too low. I could be wrong, I hope to be wrong, but that's really not a lot for what we are getting
XSS - $249-$299
PS5DE - $399-$449
XSX - $449-$499
PS5 - $499
Reason why I think XSX might drop to 449 is only if PS5DE is 399 and PS5 499, otherwise it will also be $499.
Trogdor1123
Member
Sorry if already answered but is there a list of current games confirmed getting next gen patches?
Only one I really know of is destiny 2 but assume the other Gaas ones will too but haven't seen anything confirmed.
Only one I really know of is destiny 2 but assume the other Gaas ones will too but haven't seen anything confirmed.
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
I'd be shocked if diskless is less than $399; I think you guys are gonna be disappointed if you expect the disk version to be 399.
pawel86ck
Banned
Initial load time in BC game is comparable to PC SDD 500MB/s, because XSX cant use VA componnents and therefore must decompress evertything with software (like PC). There's really no surprise here.
When game is unpacked XSX I/O can move data really fast if you havent noticed it. Quick resume video on YT shows XSX was able to save entire RAM dump (Xbox One X has 12GB, so memory dump can be up to 12GB) and loaded a new one in just a few seconds. XSX has transfered around 24GB data in just a few seconds and you want to tell me that's not impressive? You cant load news games so quckly on PC currently, so even 5-6 seconds is very impressive to me. I doubt XSX compress game data with BCpack (XSX has only HW decompression, and it would take long a time to compress textures with BCpack), so real games compressed with BCpack should fill entire 13.5 GB in just 3 seconds exactly as MS claims and that's not even accounting for SFS savings.
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Neo Blaster
Member
Exactly, if they are so confident on their solution, why not just say the transfer speed instead of a multiplier?
Sinthor
Gold Member
I think all those numbers are off though, the PS5 isn't going to be $399, that's just too low. I could be wrong, I hope to be wrong, but that's really not a lot for what we are getting
XSS - $249-$299
PS5DE - $399-$449
XSX - $449-$499
PS5 - $499
Reason why I think XSX might drop to 449 is only if PS5DE is 399 and PS5 499, otherwise it will also be $499.
Yeah, I tend to agree with you. Was just basing that comment off the thread and where it was talking about the XSX and PS5 being $399. I mean...if they WERE that cheap...WOW! But yeah, I just can't see those machines being $399....not with everything we've seen they have and can do. Like you....would LOVE that but...not expecting it. Heck, at first when things started coming out I was thinking that maybe we were even talking $599 for XSX and PS5. That would have made lockhart fit in well at even $299. I still think $299 would be good for Lockhart if XSX is in fact $499 or even $450. Will be interesting to see how this goes!
FranXico
Member
The multiplier is a factor by how much less memory is consumed, it's not directly related to the I/O. It does not make data transfer by itself faster, but introduces a significant resource optimization.
DaGwaphics
Member
I think they've said that the SSD is 2.4GB/s raw and 4.8GB/s compressed (on average).
ANYTHING they do to try and lower the amount of data they need to fetch when rendering a frame does not increase the actual transfer rates. PS5 has superior IO.
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IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Why do you take such an issue with the multipliers?
It's not like it's difficult to understand what they are saying. It's only misleading if you don't bother to read the details. Whether it be decompression or SFS the idea is "For a texture this size this is what the RAW i/o speed would need to be w/o the specializations." For decompression it's just easier to understand, but conceptually it's the same. "To get this 1GB texture into memory without SFS would take 2x's the i/o." It just takes up less memory footprint as well.. which honestly, makes it MORE efficient than decompression. If it's misleading, it's misleading in the opposite direction as you aren't only saving bandwidth but memory.
(I'm personally not completely sold on SFS myself.. it sounds like it would lead to weird visual artifacts and complications.. but I'll wait to actually see it in action to judge)
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silent head
Member
PS5 review: Untapped potential, with a revolutionary controller
Sony's PS5 is leaps and bounds ahead of its predecessors, as it should be. With a blazing-fast SSD, a great launch lineup of games, and a sleek UI, it's clear the future is here.
www.androidcentral.com
Are you sure?
Oodle Texture Compression
RAD Game Tools' web page. RAD makes Bink Video, the Telemetry Performance Visualization System, and Oodle Data Compression - all popular video game middleware.www.radgametools.com
And another bit that might be of interest:
"And of course, it all works incredibly with the PS5's built-in hardware Kraken decoder. "
Damn bro you murdered him! It's funny tho he mentions it needs GPU resources that's the whole point of having the hardware block dedicated to it in the I/O pipeline so it doesnt have to use other resources.
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Does Oodle not work with Microsoft's decoder?
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Yeah, hellblade 2 in real time... People will set themselves to massive disappointment.
DrDamn
Member
People rarely read the details - particularly those looking for clicks. The misleading part then becomes widespread.
I think with SFS it's very specific to the situation it's used in and the developer taking advantage - so misleading to use in general discussions of IO. It's really nice clever tech, but it's not making XSX load times overall shorter, it's making it more efficient when streaming.
saintjules
Member
Yeah, hellblade 2 in real time... People will set themselves to massive disappointment.
Haha, real-time, in-engine. What about 'with your own two eyes, controller in hand-time?
T-Cake
Member
Oodle Texture is the same as Microsoft's BCpack, then Sony will use hardware Kraken and MS will use hardware ZLib.
Neo Blaster
Member
Perfect catchy word to go with Halo.So, just wanted to point out that we went from
2.4 raw - > 4.8 Compressed
to
2.4 raw -> 4.8 compressed, but actually 6
to
2.4 raw -> 6 compressed x 2 = 12
to 2.4 raw x 2.5 -> 12 compressed x 2.5
I predict, sometime next week, that we will be at
Neo Blaster
Member
I wouldn't consider a lie, but a very 'colorful' truth.
SSfox
Member
This news really smells like PS5 won't go above the 450 bucks... but not sure tho still
Neo Blaster
Member
So, the only video supposedly running in real-time on XSX is from a game releasing exclusively for PC right now? When did we get into inverted world?
Bo_Hazem
Banned
D
Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
It has nothing to do with transfer speed. SFS provides an effective multiplier on available system memory and I/O bandwidth, resulting in significantly more memory and I/O throughput available to make your game richer and more immersive.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
THE:MILKMAN
Member
You kid but the analysis of Sony's own forecast shows it is possible!
ArmGunar said:
Just got to wait a couple of weeks to include a few other pieces of info to get the latest figures.
Dodkrake
Banned
"Halo. The pinnacle of First Person Shooters. A beacon of technological innovation designed specifically for the Xbox Series X*, fully utilizing its 12TF and specially architected SSD. Combined with Xbox's Patented Technology, Velocity Architecture, Halo offers an unprecedented level of detail that is 2.5X** as efficient as the one from previous generations.
*The Xbox Series X version of the Halo was designed considering the constraints of the Xbox One
** Unprecedented level of detail that fully utilizes our Velocity Architecture technology to provide an effective boost of 2.5X of an unspecified number"
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IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Well depends on how they use it. If you have 6GB of texture data and you only need to use 3GB with SFS. You could use that savings for another 3GB of data, or you can use it for loading 3GB less data and thus decrease load times. It's actually MORE flexible than something that simply increases transfer speed or increases compression, not less, because it saves you i/o and RAM.
(granted maybe SFS makes games have weird texture pop-in, and might have other complications, but if your game CAN support it, and it doesn't have drawbacks, on paper it's really awesome)
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Dabaus
Banned
Say that there is a 399 digital and a 499 disc drive, but the digital only makes up 35-40 percent of produced models... It gives sony the "now starting at 399" price point im sure they covet but also sort of forces buyers to buy the more expensive model. Just because it starts at 399 doesnt mean all the PS5s sold will be 399 thus incurring this huge loss. Plus the money made from digital downloads from the digital ps5. Its alot more grey than just "sony is going to lose x amount of losses at 399." Not to mention we dont know how much sony makes off of ps4 hardware. A 299 ps4, and 499 ps5 dics drive might be enough to make up for whatever loss a 399 ps5 digital would lose.
Perhaps something like this, pure speculation on my part of course:
299 PS4- 50-100 Profit
399 PS5 Digital: 100 Dollar Loss
499 PS5 Disc Drive: Break even
Sony would essentially be breaking even on hardware and profiting from software and services, thats not terrible for a new console launch. But who knows.
Perhaps something like this, pure speculation on my part of course:
299 PS4- 50-100 Profit
399 PS5 Digital: 100 Dollar Loss
499 PS5 Disc Drive: Break even
Sony would essentially be breaking even on hardware and profiting from software and services, thats not terrible for a new console launch. But who knows.
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Neo_game
Member
I think all those numbers are off though, the PS5 isn't going to be $399, that's just too low. I could be wrong, I hope to be wrong, but that's really not a lot for what we are getting
XSS - $249-$299
PS5DE - $399-$449
XSX - $449-$499
PS5 - $499
Reason why I think XSX might drop to 449 is only if PS5DE is 399 and PS5 499, otherwise it will also be $499.
Why would Microsoft make loss on both console. 250 and 450 is very wishful thinking to say the least.
Neo Blaster
Member
Considering the front cover design so far, what would we see in case there is a XSS? 'XBOX SERIES - XBOX ONE'?
Bo_Hazem
Banned
MasterCornholio
Member
Probably "Xbox One - Xbox Series X - Xbox Series S "
Then they will have something that tells people where the game plays best.
PaintTinJr
Member
Just out of interest, how can SFS "stack" with zlib-esq RDO'd texture compression? I get that SFS can work with BCn - the textures are random access addressable - but how does SFS save SSD IO bandwidth while trying to randomly access subsets of BCn textures that are using non-random access compression?
Enjoy the reality check.
This is a Microsoft Engine Architect saying your wrong.
Now if you want to claim Microsoft is lying I can get with that. But please stop acting like I'm the one misunderstanding what they are claiming
For texture data
It's the raw throughput (2.4) * Effective modifier due to compression (2) * Effective modifier due to SFS(2.5) = 12 (
Atleast according to the guy working on it
If you have to decompress the BCpack textures to RAM first, then benefit with SFS by only keeping the subset you are using, you won't get any IO benefit from SFS - only GPU processing saved and RAM residency saved. But yet again, the PS5 can do all of this too, just with a hardware based IO complex that is more effective and more Raw SSD throughput, so it seems like the Microsoft Engineer is being co-oped to spreading misinformation, or correct information in the wrong context to deceive - will be really interested if SFS can make savings by accessing the subset data without having to decompress the BCn textures to RAM first.
Metroiddarks
Member
What I'm surprised is seeing the lack of understanding on your part about any technical terms.Jason Ronald has explained In the article what's the difference between standard mipmaps and their SFS implementation.
If PS5 doesn't have similar feature then we have a new winner in I/O throughput
Currently something similar is already done with software now like with the Far Cry 4 (Adaptive Virtual Texture) and even now UE (Virtual texturing)
can do the same, only now Xbox introduce this as part of its API and use hardware to reduce but not eliminate the overhead in your
CPU when you are using it, is very important companies like Xbox introduce this kind of technologies to its API for a simple reason not all
the devs will have the time or money to introduce this to its respective engine so have already as part of your API of Direct 12 ultimate
with a reduce overhead compare to the last gen is good news for them.
http://twvideo01.ubm-us.net/o1/vault/gdc2015/presentations/Chen_Ka_AdaptiveVirtualTexture.pdf
https://docs.unrealengine.com/en-US/Engine/Rendering/VirtualTexturing/index.html#:~:text=Unreal Engine 4 (UE4) supports,Streaming Virtual Texturing (SVT).&text=Supports very large texture resolutions,by the GPU at runtime.
This reminds me of 2013 when basically Tiled resources were used as magic thing.
They mentioned SF cannot be used in every texture request, in addition this same technology is 100% compatible with turing
(it is almost as if it was not exclusive), think if it was so spectacular you would have NVIDIA using it as a basic marketing
weapon.
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sircaw
Banned
D
Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
450 is to match Sony, which they said they would. 250 is if the PS5DE is 399, otherwise I can see it being 299.
AeneaGames
Member
sircaw
Banned
Ok, ok, you're right, I should think about what I eat! I'll start now!
Your just upset cos my pearly whites are better than yours. Look at my Avatar and marvel at them, Chewbacca jnr.
Neo Blaster
Member
That would be too long to fit inside that black stripe, and inconsistent, since 'XBOX ONE' refers to two consoles.
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MasterCornholio
Member
Just make the font smaller.
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Darklor01
Might need to stop sniffing glue
This news really smells like PS5 won't go above the 450 bucks... but not sure tho still
I'm still in the $500 disc system camp for at least one of the SKUs, but..
Here's the thing.. They (Sony) have stated that this system would have a faster transition time from PS4 to PS5 than from PS3 to PS4 (if I remember correctly). The ramping up production does not mean that this wasn't their plan all along to have x number of units available by launch. We don't know what their plan was in relation to that. If their plan is to have a faster adoption rate than from PS3 to PS4, the number of units they have available within the launch window have to be there and the pricing has to be right.
These factors does not preclude that one of the two versions of the console could hit a $400 price tag and the other a higher tag. It also doesn't mean we know what the splits in SKUs will be. I'm going to hedge my bet in saying that the discless one will be $400. I think they'll make up lost money on additional storage sales through strategic partnerships with manufacturers of storage chips and in other ways.
If the cost variance between SKUs has a great enough delta, it would potentially make the cost of purchasing additional memory easier to swallow as an advantage at the price point of the discless SKU, even if you're going to have to deal with not being able to play your disc based library on that version of the system. It's an interesting way of doing things if this turns out to be their plan.
AeneaGames
Member
Neo Blaster
Member
Making things smaller in front covers is not a MS thing...
Bo_Hazem
Banned
This is a meat free burger my mates and I had at St Kilda almost a year ago at a place called Matcha Mylkbar. Its supposed to be a crispy chicken flavour but is actually made with jack fruit and yeah was pretty legit best meat free burger I've had thus far.
Yesterday I ate around 1 kg of meat, liver, and guts. Nothing could replace that
sircaw
Banned
Aww but look how adorable I am?
Yes, cute, especially under the magnification of a hunters scope.
With that said Peace to you my furry friend
.
sircaw
Banned
Yesterday I ate around 1 kg of meat, liver, and guts. Nothing could replace that
If you look at the post directly below yours, you will find an image of something smiling.
Good replacement i think.
FeiRR
Banned
Was your price prediction a gut feeling then?Yesterday I ate around 1 kg of meat, liver, and guts. Nothing could replace that
DaGwaphics
Member
There's that chance all their skus are already covered, too. Depending on how long they foresee lockhart being a productive part of the lineup (if it ever makes it).
Metroiddarks
Member
Don't worry is clear for me you are not game developer.
But as part of be dev in understand when a new technology is presented, you should understand it as much as you can instead just quote.
See if exists a predecessor of that technology and see if is enough to be presented as feature/improvement to a possible client of the lead of you project.
In the personal I cannot make a presentation in this way:
-Me: With X technology we reduce the footprint in memory in 66%
-Lead project: good but this a new technology with any precedent?because sounds too cool
-Me: I don't know I just use first paragraph of the home page of the company who presented this technology
-Lead project: Do you what ? wait this is not basically the same we used in the last project as part of Y software solution
-Me: I don't know I never checked but the buzzwords are awesome
-Lead: And can we used always ? because is just too good to not have any cost
-Me: yes why not the video say it
-Lead: ....
When in reality should be:
-Me: boss did you remember the Y software solution?
-Lead: yes why?
-Me: now is part of the new API and they reduce the cost of use it, but we still need to think the best way of use it as you now is not free
-Lead: still sounds awesome so we don't need waste so many time for the next project, please present the improvement against the
only software solution for the next meeting
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Well, I like our traditional Dhofari way of meat cooked on stone, but seems there is enough room for variation.
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