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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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B

Brudda26

Member
If I had to say which one it is, it will be the one missing from the list the 6700 as the 6700XT is there but the base 6700 is not. None of those cards come close to 2.23ghz clock of PS5 so the closest ones are 6800XT upwards as they are at the 2ghz area. Stream processor for stream processor yes the 6600 is a match but it's short on ROPS, clock is nowhere near it, memory bus is 192bit instead 256bit of PS5.

The 6800 matches on clocks, rops(roughly) and stream processors for the xsx but memory bus is wrong. Also the total die size for xsx 360mm2 the 6800 is 336mm2. Dont forget the xsx is a APU and also fits the CPU along with a far fee customizations within. So I would say it's likely the xsx will only be keeping the needed parts from the 6800 and will cut away what isnt needed.

PS5 is a cut down and refined 6700

XSX is a cut down and refined 6800

When I say refined I mean cutting out the stuff that's not needed for console etc (I guess there both not RDNA2 /s ) honestly if some of you dont get the sarcasm there.

It's almost as both are completely custom GPU and none of them match what AMD is planning for their own lineup.
 
geordiemp

geordiemp

Member
sircaw said:
Sigh i really hope not, i have set a 400 pounds limit anymore than that well, its a big no, hence why i like the idea of the none disk version.

Kick starter, crowdfunding, fuck it i am goin to sell my body.

Be on the corner tonight boys and girls, red mini, fishnet stockings, blondie wig, trust me you won't know the difference.

I am also expensive 5 bucks a trick.

Who's First!!!!

MODS half/price

Groups welcome and time to stop :messenger_beaming:
Click to expand...

 
K

Kerlurk

Banned
MoreLikeSameOldEra said:
We know Ps4 SOC appeared before the Series X SOC and got some major revisions.
So it makes sense they're behind in the feature set.
So the initial Ps5 SOC was based on NAVI and than later changed. I makes sense they could not change the design completely, so they got some RDNA2 features in, but the chip design is not 100% RDNA2
Click to expand...

Developers needed a development kit to work on, so it makes sense that the hardware was upgraded at the chip level over time, especially since RDNA2 was still being developed, and Sony entire PS5 development is a work in progress on many levels. What they wanted 4 years ago (after PS4 Pro release) is quite different than what they ended up with.

That not 100% RDNA2 always call into question, that it's not RDNA2. When it comes to performance, it will be RDNA2. The missing bits are related to PC components like Infinity Link (which looks to be added at the chip level for RDNA2) for example which are not needed for a fixed platform like PS5.
 
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Sinthor

Sinthor

Gold Member
Ass of Can Whooping said:
PS5 and XSX GPU aren't off the shelf desktop GPUs

really all that needs to be said
Click to expand...

Good grief....back to the old "PS5 is RDNA1!" BS. Unbelievable. I sure hope that both MS and Sony get in gear and release more detailed technical info. This silence, this late into the game (considering these are supposed to be out and on the market in November) is just ridiculous. I don't expect many of these rabid fanboys will make it much longer! ;)
 
Neo Blaster

Neo Blaster

Member
Sinthor said:
Good grief....back to the old "PS5 is RDNA1!" BS. Unbelievable. I sure hope that both MS and Sony get in gear and release more detailed technical info. This silence, this late into the game (considering these are supposed to be out and on the market in November) is just ridiculous. I don't expect many of these rabid fanboys will make it much longer! ;)
Click to expand...

Honestly, there's no teardown or disclosed info that will silent these guys.
 
geordiemp

geordiemp

Member
THE:MILKMAN said:
Consoles are standard 7nm aren't they? Or they might claim being "enhanced 7nm" (meaning mature really). 7nm consoles in November 2020 will mean the process node is as mature as 28nm was for PS4 and Xbox One in November 2013. I will be shocked if these consoles come in at or above the PS3 and Xbox One's £425/£430 launch prices never mind £500-£600!

I will stick to my prediction that these consoles will be lower priced than most seem to think. Sony's 10 million for the first 4 months indicates they are going aggressive on price surely and Microsoft certainly won't just roll over. If I'm wrong I'll simply wait a short time for the inevitable price drops.
Click to expand...

The MAD presentaton on RDNA2 said selective EUV, EUV litho is the most expensive process in semiconductor by far, and even if for a few gate layer geometry will have a bigger effect thab most predict.

People are thinking price of RDNA2 is similar to RDNA1. Its not, that 50 % perf per watt did not magic.
 
B

Brudda26

Member
I'm gonna say the base 6700 has 44CU now we know the PS5 is 36CU along with a additional CU for the tempest engine so that's "37" total. Now you cant disable a single CU you have to mirror it and disable 2. So the customised CU for audio is either a cluster or there is another active CU doing something else that's not accounted for yet. Now we know usually to meet yields they usually disable 4 or so CU before they meet there required CU target. It being "36" CU the likely hood is everyone was guessing it was cut down from 40. Disabling just 2 wont really do much for yields especially at the high clock rate. My guess is were getting 44 cut down to 38. 36 for the GPU itself 1 for the tempest engine and the other for something not spoke about yet. Leaving a total of 6 disabled. Not only will that increase yields it will also make it easier to hit higher clocks.
 
McHuj

McHuj

Member
I don’t think AMD has actually defined what RDNA2 is and what it means to be a RDNA2 GPU.

RDNA2 could simply be a set of micro architectural performance and power improvements independent of architectural features. And on top of it, all those new features could be optional.

The GPU could simply be RDNA2 because it meets performance and power metrics provided by the new enhancements and can support a feature set regardless if the customer chooses to have all of it implemented.
 
K

Kerlurk

Banned
geordiemp said:
The MAD presentaton on RDNA2 said selective EUV, EUV litho is the most expensive process in semiconductor by far, and even if for a few gate layer geometry will have a bigger effect thab most predict.

People are thinking price of RDNA2 is similar to RDNA1. Its not, that 50 % perf per watt did not magic.
Click to expand...

Yup.

ASML’s (a company based in Holland) EUV machines cost $120 million each.

Each machine, about the most advanced piece of hardware created by humanity.

TMSC bought 18 of them in February 2019 for ~$2.2 billion.

They will be used for 7nm, and 5nm chip production.

That's right. For Sony to hit 2230 MHz, they cannot manufacturer on the current 7nm node (that was used for the Radeon 5700 XT), as the chip will run too hot.

AMD's has claimed 50% improvement RDNA1 -> RDNA2.

A lot of that will be on this new advanced EUV (partial part of the process), and the older non-EUV 7nm production.

AMD traditional has included the process node improvements when talking about percentages increases from one generation to the next, along with architectural improvements.

Because of this new EUV production, you cannot look at a RDNA1 card, and overclock them to 2230 Mhz, and then run benchmarks, and say that this is how the PS5 will perform at that clock speed (showing percentage increase in the benchmark being run vs the regular clock of that chip).
 
Last edited:
THE:MILKMAN

THE:MILKMAN

Member
geordiemp said:
The MAD presentaton on RDNA2 said selective EUV, EUV litho is the most expensive process in semiconductor by far, and even if for a few gate layer geometry will have a bigger effect thab most predict.

People are thinking price of RDNA2 is similar to RDNA1. Its not, that 50 % perf per watt did not magic.
Click to expand...

Right now (like most details about these consoles) things remain unclear. What we do know about the process node for XSX comes from DF where it is specifically stated it doesn't take advantage of EUV/7nm+ but just enhancements/improvements to 7nm i.e. process maturity. Given this I would expect PS5's APU to use the same process rather than a more expensive EUV version not to mention possible lower yields. 10 million for the first run points away from that.

I still say in any case these consoles will be quite a bit lower than £500, Geordie. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised! I hope anyway....
 
SlimySnake

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
McHuj said:
I don’t think AMD has actually defined what RDNA2 is and what it means to be a RDNA2 GPU.

RDNA2 could simply be a set of micro architectural performance and power improvements independent of architectural features. And on top of it, all those new features could be optional.

The GPU could simply be RDNA2 because it meets performance and power metrics provided by the new enhancements and can support a feature set regardless if the customer chooses to have all of it implemented.
Click to expand...
PS5 GPU pretty much has to support the RDNA 2.0 1.5x perf/watt enhancements. It already has ray tracing hardware built in. I think at this point people are just splitting hairs.
 
geordiemp

geordiemp

Member
Kerlurk said:
Yup.

ASML’s EUV machines cost $120 million each.

TMSC bought 18 of them in February 2019 for ~$2.2 billion.

They will be used for 7nm, and 5nm chip production.

That's right. For Sony to hit 2230 MHz, they cannot manufacturer on the current 7nm node (that was used for the Radeon 5700 XT), as the chip will run too hot.

AMD's has claimed 50% improvement RDNA1 -> RDNA2.

A lot of that will be on this new advanced EUV (partial part of the process), and the older non-EUV 7nm production.

AMD traditional has included the process node improvements when talking about percentages increases from one generation to the next, along with architectural improvements.

Because of this new EUV production, you cannot look at a RDNA1 card, and overclock them to 2230 Mhz, and then run benchmarks, and say that this is how the PS5 will perform at that clock speed (showing percentage increase in the benchmark being run vs the regular clock of that chip).
Click to expand...

Exactly the RDNA1 posts have nota clue what they are talking about. 2.23 Ghz is all out RDNA2 frequency balls to the wall.. RDNA2 is a new revision of logic tied to the partial EUV node.

Anyone who thinks just chuck some RDNA1 stuff in their does not get it, masks and design will have been designed specfically around that node as it allows greater granularity on the photo edges and tolerances. Posters who say RDNA1 normally dont know what they are talking about.

If sony wanted to keep an RDNA1 feature, it would still have been designed in RDNA2 for that node..

And you pay for the process. What is interesting is the RDNA2 clocks and wattages, but thats about it.

Also both XSX and Ps5 are using 14 gbs RAM....BOTH are custom.
 
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Dodkrake

Dodkrake

Banned
geordiemp said:
Exactly the RDNA1 posts have nota clue what they are talking about. 2.23 Ghz is all out RDNA2 frequency balls to the wall.. RDNA2 is a new revision of logic tied to the partial EUV node.

Anyone who thinks just chuck some RDNA1 stuff in their does not get it, masks and design will have been designed specfically around that node as it allows greater granularity on the photo edges and tolderances.

If sony wanted to keep an RDAN1 feature, it would still have been designed in RDNA2.

And you pay for the process. What is interesting is the RDNA2 clocks and wattages, but tahst about it.

Also both XSX and Ps5 are using 14 gbs RAM....BOTH are custom.
Click to expand...

I think you meant 16.
 
DaGwaphics

DaGwaphics

Member
ErRor88 said:
Not sure if anyone saw this but It looks like a chart with the upcoming AMD RDNA cards has leaked on Twitter and the speculation is that XSX is between 6800 and 6900 and the PS5 is 6600.

Any thoughts? Also don't shoot the messenger. I would think the PS5 would be a 6700.

Click to expand...


The GB there referring to VRAM, right? Yikes, these AMD cards are going to be pricy with 16 and 20GB of memory. The nVidia estimates seem more in line with what I figured for the upcoming vid cards. AMD really going for it, if true.
 
D

Deleted member 775630

Unconfirmed Member
Darklor01 said:
Heads of AMD and Sony say it's RDNA 2, but everyone know better. Head of XBOX says the same... must be true. It's really annoying. Here's the thing, in BOTH cases, if a chipset has RDNA2 in it, it's RDNA2.. even if not 100%. That's just how things work.
Click to expand...
I don't think people are talking about semantics. I think they are saying that XSX GPU has more RDNA2 features compared to PS5. No clue if this is even correct, or what the impact would be, just explaining what they mean when they say PS5 GPU is between RDNA1 and RDNA2
 
sircaw

sircaw

Banned
Wraith Phantom said:
That Looks like PCWorld/Currys. I hope its all Currys in London & not just Central. I haven't been on public transport in 3 months. Nor am I heading into central for that.

If its a Currys local to me I will pop in there take some cam pics/videos & post them in here.
Click to expand...

How fast can you run, take bolt cutters, will meet you and the end of the road.

If there is a massive group chasing, don't stop keep going. :messenger_grinning:
 
Darklor01

Darklor01

Might need to stop sniffing glue
X-Fighter said:
I don't think people are talking about semantics. I think they are saying that XSX GPU has more RDNA2 features compared to PS5. No clue if this is even correct, or what the impact would be, just explaining what they mean when they say PS5 GPU is between RDNA1 and RDNA2
Click to expand...

I'm no techie, but if RDNA 2 features require a certain baseline architecture not possible on an RDNA1 chip, assuming that is true, then..
While RDNA2 may contain features inclusive of RDNA 1, the chip cannot be RDNA 1 and contain features of RDNA 2. That would be "Forward compatibility" which isn't a thing.

If they want to say that the XSX includes more active RDNA2 features than PS5 does, 1st, maybe so but prove it, and 2nd, YAY FOR THEM!
 
Dodkrake

Dodkrake

Banned
Assuming the Table is correct and going by TechPowerUp's data:

tSoaTCx.jpg


Xbox Series X
  • TDP: 200 W
  • GPU Clock: 1825 MHz
  • Shading Units: 3328
  • ROPs: 80
  • Memory Bus: 320 bit
The card that most closely resembles this configuration is the RX6800 (Navi 23), which has 64 ROPs instead of 80, which a lot have pointed previously. Also, the memory bus is not 320 bit, but 256 bit instead. TDP also matches. There's nothing too interesting here as the specs mostly match with the rumored ones. There's no other GPU where we could position the Xbox Series X, so it's likely that it's design closely matches the one there. What matches and what doesn't below

  • Lithography: Navi23
  • TDP: 6800
  • GPU Clock: 6800 (10 MHz difference)
  • Shading Units: 6800
  • ROPs: None
  • Memory Bus: None

PS5
  • TDP: 180 W
  • GPU Clock: 2233 MHz
  • Shading Units: 2304
  • ROPs: 64
  • Memory Bus: 256 bit
The card that mostly resembles the 6600XT (Navi 10) due to the 256 bit bus, clockspeed and TDP. It doesn't match on the amount of shading units, which match the 6600, and the TDP, which also closely matches that same GPU. This one is a bit more interesting though. Since we know that the PS5 is on the RDNA 2.0 lithography, it's impossible that the GPU is either of these, making it an interesting mix and match of GPU's that would confirm a more customized design. It looks like the PS5 GPU could be positioned between the 6600XT and the 6700 XT. Here's a list of what matches each card:

  • Lithography: Navi23
  • TDP: 6700XT
  • GPU Clock: None (closest GPU is the 6600XT)
  • Shading Units: 6600
  • ROPs: 6600XT
  • Memory Bus: 6600XT
 
geordiemp

geordiemp

Member
X-Fighter said:
I don't think people are talking about semantics. I think they are saying that XSX GPU has more RDNA2 features compared to PS5. No clue if this is even correct, or what the impact would be, just explaining what they mean when they say PS5 GPU is between RDNA1 and RDNA2
Click to expand...

They are both custom, no PC cards will be similar to either IMO. I expect most PC RDNA2 cards to be clocked above 2 Ghz and overclock ability near ps5 as they are larger chips.

I also believe in hindsight we will see XSX is clocked quote low for RDNA2, but it will all come out in the wash soon.

Also why are NVidia parts on 8 nm clocked higher, does not sound right.

That table looks just wrong.
 
Last edited:
Sinthor

Sinthor

Gold Member
sircaw said:
Anyone know what has happened to Bo.

Sleep deprivation from Got.
Ate to many Tacos
dodgy camel curry.
Saving himself Xbox conference.
Abducted.
Bank creditors finally caught up with him.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure he's buried in Ghost of Tsushima. If I didn't have to actually work for a living (sorta anyway :) ) right now I know I would be! That game is just.....wow. Everywhere I go I'm still spending time just looking around. Some areas are almost dreamlike.
 
K

Kerlurk

Banned
sircaw said:
Anyone know what has happened to Bo.

Sleep deprivation from Got.
Ate to many Tacos
dodgy camel curry.
Saving himself Xbox conference.
Abducted.
Bank creditors finally caught up with him.
Click to expand...

And where is SonGoku? Last seen on Jun 12, 2020.

He started this thread.
 
Last edited:
B

Brudda26

Member
Dodkrake said:
Assuming the Table is correct and going by TechPowerUp's data:

tSoaTCx.jpg


Xbox Series X
  • TDP: 200 W
  • GPU Clock: 1825 MHz
  • Shading Units: 3328
  • ROPs: 80
  • Memory Bus: 320 bit
The card that most closely resembles this configuration is the RX6800 (Navi 23), which has 64 ROPs instead of 80, which a lot have pointed previously. Also, the memory bus is not 320 bit, but 256 bit instead. TDP also matches. There's nothing too interesting here as the specs mostly match with the rumored ones. There's no other GPU where we could position the Xbox Series X, so it's likely that it's design closely matches the one there. What matches and what doesn't below

  • Lithography: Navi23
  • TDP: 6800
  • GPU Clock: 6800 (10 MHz difference)
  • Shading Units: 6800
  • ROPs: None
  • Memory Bus: None

PS5
  • TDP: 180 W
  • GPU Clock: 2233 MHz
  • Shading Units: 2304
  • ROPs: 64
  • Memory Bus: 256 bit
The card that mostly resembles the 6600XT (Navi 10) due to the 256 bit bus, clockspeed and TDP. It doesn't match on the amount of shading units, which match the 6600, and the TDP, which also closely matches that same GPU. This one is a bit more interesting though. Since we know that the PS5 is on the RDNA 2.0 lithography, it's impossible that the GPU is either of these, making it an interesting mix and match of GPU's that would confirm a more customized design. It looks like the PS5 GPU could be positioned between the 6600XT and the 6700 XT. Here's a list of what matches each card:

  • Lithography: Navi23
  • TDP: 6700XT
  • GPU Clock: None (closest GPU is the 6600XT)
  • Shading Units: 6600
  • ROPs: 6600XT
  • Memory Bus: 6600XT
Click to expand...
Rops for the 6800 is 64 and the github leaks said the xsx had 60 rops
 
Sinthor

Sinthor

Gold Member
Dodkrake said:
Assuming the Table is correct and going by TechPowerUp's data:

tSoaTCx.jpg


Xbox Series X
  • TDP: 200 W
  • GPU Clock: 1825 MHz
  • Shading Units: 3328
  • ROPs: 80
  • Memory Bus: 320 bit
The card that most closely resembles this configuration is the RX6800 (Navi 23), which has 64 ROPs instead of 80, which a lot have pointed previously. Also, the memory bus is not 320 bit, but 256 bit instead. TDP also matches. There's nothing too interesting here as the specs mostly match with the rumored ones. There's no other GPU where we could position the Xbox Series X, so it's likely that it's design closely matches the one there. What matches and what doesn't below

  • Lithography: Navi23
  • TDP: 6800
  • GPU Clock: 6800 (10 MHz difference)
  • Shading Units: 6800
  • ROPs: None
  • Memory Bus: None

PS5
  • TDP: 180 W
  • GPU Clock: 2233 MHz
  • Shading Units: 2304
  • ROPs: 64
  • Memory Bus: 256 bit
The card that mostly resembles the 6600XT (Navi 10) due to the 256 bit bus, clockspeed and TDP. It doesn't match on the amount of shading units, which match the 6600, and the TDP, which also closely matches that same GPU. This one is a bit more interesting though. Since we know that the PS5 is on the RDNA 2.0 lithography, it's impossible that the GPU is either of these, making it an interesting mix and match of GPU's that would confirm a more customized design. It looks like the PS5 GPU could be positioned between the 6600XT and the 6700 XT. Here's a list of what matches each card:

  • Lithography: Navi23
  • TDP: 6700XT
  • GPU Clock: None (closest GPU is the 6600XT)
  • Shading Units: 6600
  • ROPs: 6600XT
  • Memory Bus: 6600XT
Click to expand...

Where are you getting this info/speculation? I thought the GitHub leaks showed XSX with 60 ROPS? In any case, those don't necessarily represent the final systems of course, but I haven't seen ANYTHING solid about the ROPS for either system. Did I miss something? If I did, apologies for calling what you put there 'speculation.' I just haven't see any hard info that would allow us to compare either set of silicon to these tables. Plus the fact that we know each APU is based on "Custom RDNA2" so there may well be other changes between the console chips and your standard desktop parts. Anyway, just checking. If that has been released, I'd appreciate it if you'd throw me a link or two! :)
 
3liteDragon

3liteDragon

Member
Here’s how I look at it, if the GPU’s CU’s are RDNA 2 based, then it’s an RDNA 2 GPU. Doesn’t matter what other features the console APU’s have outside the CU’s since those are all selected according to the engineers’ needs. The CU architecture’s mainly where you’re getting the performance gains from and that’s what matters for me the most.
 
IntentionalPun

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
sircaw said:
Why would you want to skip em. Its his first play through. :messenger_grinning:
Click to expand...
I made the mistake of starting the game over after like 4 hours (which is like.. 30 minutes maybe of gameplay).. Several hours later and I'm still not back to where I was lol

I hate that shit.

But.. I'd probably skip some of these boring ass cutscnes anyways even on my first playthrough. Fun game, cliche as hell story.
 
Last edited:
Sinthor

Sinthor

Gold Member
IntentionalPun said:
I made the mistake of starting the game over after like 4 hours (which is like.. 30 minutes maybe of gameplay).. Several hours later and I'm still not back to where I was lol

I hate that shit.

But.. I'd probably skip some of these boring ass cutscnes anyways even on my first playthrough. Fun game, cliche as hell story.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I do wish they'd let you skip the scenes or at least speed the dialogue along with a button press as well. Maybe in a later update? Or the PS5 version??? :) LOL
 
Imtjnotu

Imtjnotu

Member
Dodkrake said:
Assuming the Table is correct and going by TechPowerUp's data:

tSoaTCx.jpg


Xbox Series X
  • TDP: 200 W
  • GPU Clock: 1825 MHz
  • Shading Units: 3328
  • ROPs: 80
  • Memory Bus: 320 bit
The card that most closely resembles this configuration is the RX6800 (Navi 23), which has 64 ROPs instead of 80, which a lot have pointed previously. Also, the memory bus is not 320 bit, but 256 bit instead. TDP also matches. There's nothing too interesting here as the specs mostly match with the rumored ones. There's no other GPU where we could position the Xbox Series X, so it's likely that it's design closely matches the one there. What matches and what doesn't below

  • Lithography: Navi23
  • TDP: 6800
  • GPU Clock: 6800 (10 MHz difference)
  • Shading Units: 6800
  • ROPs: None
  • Memory Bus: None

PS5
  • TDP: 180 W
  • GPU Clock: 2233 MHz
  • Shading Units: 2304
  • ROPs: 64
  • Memory Bus: 256 bit
The card that mostly resembles the 6600XT (Navi 10) due to the 256 bit bus, clockspeed and TDP. It doesn't match on the amount of shading units, which match the 6600, and the TDP, which also closely matches that same GPU. This one is a bit more interesting though. Since we know that the PS5 is on the RDNA 2.0 lithography, it's impossible that the GPU is either of these, making it an interesting mix and match of GPU's that would confirm a more customized design. It looks like the PS5 GPU could be positioned between the 6600XT and the 6700 XT. Here's a list of what matches each card:

  • Lithography: Navi23
  • TDP: 6700XT
  • GPU Clock: None (closest GPU is the 6600XT)
  • Shading Units: 6600
  • ROPs: 6600XT
  • Memory Bus: 6600XT
Click to expand...
Doesn't show anywhere in here that the XS has 80 rops
 
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