zaitsu
Banned
Try to imagine how harsh would Alex be if horizon 2 would look worse than horizon 1. Thats how harsh they should be.
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Grodiak
Member
I think a lot of it comes with "old baggage". You read what they say through a lens of how they previously have gone about stuff.
I was waiting for more
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Fordino
Member
Agreed, they spent most of the video complaining about it. They were ‘very disappointed’ with Halo, they constantly questioned why nothing was being shown on SeriesX, and they were frustrated by the numerous ‘pointless’ CGI trailers.
They weren’t happy.
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
Yep, imagine Sony showed off Uncharted 5 4k60fps but it looked worse than Uncharted 3 in parts, DF would rip Sony to shreds and deservedly so.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Was buying your Ps4 Pro such a special occasion? Dressed like that, it is no wonder you went home with a quiet one
Yeah that was like 1 month before the wedding, was transferring my shit and playing like crazy.In the meanwhile...
This avatar is out of this world.
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jose4gg
Member
In the meanwhile...
This avatar is out of this world.
The whole open world map is a just multiple areas connected with elevators ...
zaitsu
Banned
Game design is being HELD BACK by 2013 hardware.
Yeah the 30fps thing. Pathetic.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
i mean thats true of everyone. people here werent super harsh on Sony when they didnt show much gameplay for horizon, demon souls and spiderman. I was cancelled in this very thread for daring to say it was impressive but not mind blowing. Alex has a bias, but he was sufficiently critical of MS.
the key thing here is that they didnt give them a free pass. MS and Phil need to be taken to task and I am glad that happened.
Also, glad Alex and John got into that 60 fps argument because its exactly why Halo looks so bad. It's an open world game designed to run on a 1.3 tflops gpu. PC fans, 60 fps truthers and xbox fans needed to learn this lesson. 60 fps will give you lackluster visuals the moment you go open world with it.
Keep 60 fps on PC.
Gamernyc78
Banned
You want 4k 60fps let's compare . This kills all tht "but but it's bcus it's 60fps" narrative smfh. Always an excuse.
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Tiago07
Member
Im curious about this "perfomance mode", in PS4 Pro in the some games was the 1080p with 60 fps, but I think it could be a upscaling technique or they render some objects in less resolution or its the dynamic resolution mode (which is more possible).
It would be great to games offer the 60fps mode in the NextGen, lets see If more exclusives and ThirdParty come with this.
megreotsugua
Banned
qiqiqiiq
Member
So Alex was really ready to die on the 60 fps hill huh?, that is a really bad excuse considering that some games from last gen that look better than the Halo gameplay ran at almost 4K and 60 fps on Xbox One X, weak CPU and all, like Battlefront 2 and Modern Warfare, hell even Halo 5 looks better, and what would his excuse be if The Last of Us 2 or Ghost of Tsushima receive a PS5 patch that makes them run at 4k and 60 fps?
Tiago07
Member
About this LOD talk, that Alex pushed.
Im not a professional in this area and even not a Hardware specialist.
But...
I only remember Epic talk on UE5:
"...No use of LODs and can also be apply to the entire horizon..."
Epic talked too about "the end of LODs"
Also the Alex belived in that "only a NVME SSD would be fine for UE5 demo" talk, when the greatest thing behind the UE5 demo was the Streaming pool that Tim Sweeny talked about, not the GPU.
And the use of the GPU to that super detailed world that we never saw before was comparable to Fortnite in PS4.
Also we have the ND former worker talking about the revolution of the SSD in game rendering.
Tim Sweeny also said "the team behind Lúmen and Nanite, knows more about rendering than me in all my life". And these guys pushed the "end of LODs" talk with the UE5 and super SSD.
With my actual knowledge of Hardware I can't deny Alex but these guys says the otherwise and we are talking about Epic CEO, the guys behind Unreal and a guy from Naughty Dog which is possibly the best Studio in techniqual quality in the world, so you choose who you belive.
Im not a professional in this area and even not a Hardware specialist.
But...
I only remember Epic talk on UE5:
"...No use of LODs and can also be apply to the entire horizon..."
Epic talked too about "the end of LODs"
Also the Alex belived in that "only a NVME SSD would be fine for UE5 demo" talk, when the greatest thing behind the UE5 demo was the Streaming pool that Tim Sweeny talked about, not the GPU.
And the use of the GPU to that super detailed world that we never saw before was comparable to Fortnite in PS4.
Also we have the ND former worker talking about the revolution of the SSD in game rendering.
Tim Sweeny also said "the team behind Lúmen and Nanite, knows more about rendering than me in all my life". And these guys pushed the "end of LODs" talk with the UE5 and super SSD.
With my actual knowledge of Hardware I can't deny Alex but these guys says the otherwise and we are talking about Epic CEO, the guys behind Unreal and a guy from Naughty Dog which is possibly the best Studio in techniqual quality in the world, so you choose who you belive.
PaintTinJr
Member
To be fair, I'm not a great judge of Halo gameplay. I remember having a PS2 (1000's of hours of PES with my brother) and having bought an imported Gamecube - after playing at my oldest friend's house a week before. But when my friend showed me Halo on his xbox, it just wasn't for me - despite it looking very similar to what they showed in XsX showcase - and I liked FPS games a lot back then (Quakes/Unreals/Dark Forces , Turok, etc),
In the meanwhile...
This avatar is out of this world.
My only real speculation points about the gameplay demonstration would be that I reckon the player was either using mouse/keyboard - which isn't really console - or it was AI playing the game, or it was a pad player that knew the AI actions in advance - meaning that the next-gen AI isn't happening for XsX's biggest title at launch unless it sees a change (or it was a m/k player).
Visually the lighting looked diminished (IMHO) which I suspect is because they've gone crazy using BCn/BCpack everywhere, which damages FX (IMO) because lighting FX need a dynamic colour range to provide noticeable contrast at a pixel/fragment level. Lossy texture compression like BCn narrows the colour range versus uncompressed - like watercolour overlap - so lighting fx can visually drown in the overlap (IMHO). If they were using uncompressed textures for the foreground assets then I'm not sure what the lighting problem was.
I think the game's biggest problem for visuals, is that they don't spend enough time on how it looks in 3rd person camera, which makes the need to produce good 3rd person track cam AI, small . For a next-gen title it's third person cam visuals on the buggy looked like the Halo I remember from 15years ago with the PC demo, and it looked inferior in PQ (by a large margin) to Death Stranding on an original PS4 with GCN 1.84TF power (IMHO).
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VanSiriusGabriel
Member
Yeah sure, better keeping up the narrative that Spider-Man expansion 4K\60 FPS performance mode will be as ugly as that Slender game at day.
We already know that PS4 games like TLOU2, Death Stranding, GoW and Horizon on PS5 will likely be 60 fps and far better looking than Halo Uglynite.
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sonomamashine
Member
Bo_Hazem
Banned
MasterCornholio
Member
Isn't that proving that the footage is real-time?
SSfox
Member
PaintTinJr
Member
There were a lot of games in the showcase that I thought might turnout to be really good games, but without gameplay I'm not convinced all these games will actually release.
A cgi-trailer for a game can be produced by just one person storyboard sketching an idea, and then commissioning a Cgi company to produce a trailer from the storyboard. Whereas gameplay trailers show massive financial commitment that is already spent and confirms the game is in the pipeline. I'm not saying that Microsoft haven't spent large for everyone of those games, but it is a shame they didn't show at least 20seconds of gameplay from every game presented.
A cgi-trailer for a game can be produced by just one person storyboard sketching an idea, and then commissioning a Cgi company to produce a trailer from the storyboard. Whereas gameplay trailers show massive financial commitment that is already spent and confirms the game is in the pipeline. I'm not saying that Microsoft haven't spent large for everyone of those games, but it is a shame they didn't show at least 20seconds of gameplay from every game presented.
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SSfox
Member
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ThaMonkeyClaw
Member
Xbox firing yesterday...
Sony getting ready to reply...
Haha, Enthiran was such a corny but great movie (that scene was from the sequel 2.0)! It's so ridiculous that it's great!
Sinthor
Gold Member
Thanks, mate! If you ever step a foot here you'll have your Omani coseplay, and maybe bring you to an Omani wedding that might be boring for you as it's all seperated (men/women) but some folklore stuff you might dig.
Here is what we call "Habbout هبوت" which is a tribal parade and poets are said either showing the pride of the tribe or supporting the Sultan here, those are my tribe, or lots say just a part of around ~5,500 total in the city:
Here is one of the most famous dances "Bar'ah برعة":
And this one is mostly done by the tribe and sub-tribe shiekhs
This was about the national day
Females have their own as well but this one is one of the extinct folklore dances that used to be done between relatives to encourage marriage from the same tribe members, now it's more celebrated as a traditional folklore dance by folklore bands (Rabboubah ربّوبة):
This one in 1997 during the national day
There are more than/around 50 folklore music/dances in the region of Dhofar, Oman alone.
That is too cool man. Looks like a hell of a good time. Whole community involved too. I guess the closest thing to this WE have now is a parade. Yours, the Habbout looks more fun though with everyone singing and they've got those cool knives and their rifles (THAT part would let you all fit in here in Arizona!
). The Bar'ah looks kind of similar to other folk dance traditions in Scotland I've seen or I suppose square dancing even. That's why I like seeing things from other countries and cultures man. It's all so interesting to me. Most of it just shows as well that though we all have lots of differences with our different tribes....at the lower level we're all really very much alike. Most want to just live life well and have some fun along the way. I won't write a novel on the thread, but thanks for sharing! Really cool stuff.
Gamernyc78
Banned
Checkerboarding or reconstruction look awesome so idc if it is. Sony started tht checkerboarding trend with Killzone and it paid off. Thy always finding solutions and pushing tech further.
Audiophile
Member
The Halo Infinite demo doesn't even look like a game that was aiming to be cross-gen, it looks like a current-gen title with a last minute kick up to 4K/60. Honestly, even looking at the gameplay section in the much higher quality video; if you told me it was running on an Xbox One X I wouldn't have been at all surprised. X1X is a 6TF GCN console with a HDD, poor I/O & a 2.3GHz Jaguar CPU. Nothing I'm seeing is selling the XSX to me as next-gen. A big budget, first-party title --even if it is cross-gen -- should say to me: "this is only possible, in this state, on the console with 12TF RDNA2, an SSD, good I/O & a 3.6GHz Zen2 CPU".
I was expecting Halo Infinite to be held back by the X1 in terms of fundamentals and core technology, but I wasn't expecting an XSX version to look like something running on an actual X1X.
MS' approach is to sell you game pass, but I -- and it seems many others -- want to be wowed going in to a new generation, we want to see things not possible before. Only Sony are doing this, quality over quantity.....except Sony seem to have the quantity too.
I don't think the underwhelming approach is entirely by choice (even though they try to make it seem so), they've only really started to build a more comprehensive range of first-party studios and it'll take many more years before they can see the fruits of their labour. What is a choice is over-hyping events that are going to be lackluster; and unless they're incredibly out of touch, they must surely know it'll be the case. Also, presentation matters and Sony's presentation was excellent, it had great production values in terms of the talking-head sections as well as the cool animations in between, it set the tone and had a strong atmosphere. MS' was just more crappy webcam sections alongside some execs who come across as feigning excitement as opposed to seeming genuinely passionate.
Hopefully they can really start to get some great games in the coming years and be more competitive. But as it stands, this doesn't feel like a greatstart lead-up to the new gen.
I was expecting Halo Infinite to be held back by the X1 in terms of fundamentals and core technology, but I wasn't expecting an XSX version to look like something running on an actual X1X.
MS' approach is to sell you game pass, but I -- and it seems many others -- want to be wowed going in to a new generation, we want to see things not possible before. Only Sony are doing this, quality over quantity.....except Sony seem to have the quantity too.
I don't think the underwhelming approach is entirely by choice (even though they try to make it seem so), they've only really started to build a more comprehensive range of first-party studios and it'll take many more years before they can see the fruits of their labour. What is a choice is over-hyping events that are going to be lackluster; and unless they're incredibly out of touch, they must surely know it'll be the case. Also, presentation matters and Sony's presentation was excellent, it had great production values in terms of the talking-head sections as well as the cool animations in between, it set the tone and had a strong atmosphere. MS' was just more crappy webcam sections alongside some execs who come across as feigning excitement as opposed to seeming genuinely passionate.
Hopefully they can really start to get some great games in the coming years and be more competitive. But as it stands, this doesn't feel like a great
Sinthor
Gold Member
In the meanwhile...
This avatar is out of this world.
Oh! I MISSED that in the demo...but that was definitely a loading elevator for the scene up at the top, right? Too funny! Explains some of that pop in during the ride as well...the system was busy pulling other data in!
Actual XSX Halo Infinite screen below:
BluRayHiDef
Banned
Yea, that's right! Tear their butts open, stuff 'em with cotton, and call 'em "cotton butts." Let 'em have it!
Ptarmiganx2
Member
Crazy after Microsoft took 5 years off to focus on the new machine...how bad would the current games be if Microsoft launched 1 new exclusive in the last year? Sony had 2 generational titles in the last 30 days....Sony didn’t push titles to next gen, they delivered for their fans.
Sinthor
Gold Member
Well....is it NATIVE 4k????
I do have to give them props for specifically calling out that there's no reason to FORCE native 4k when you can do dynamic 4k and then enable things like RT. At least, if it's needed. They're right about that. No reason to force resolution. But, I feel the same about framerate. Not every game needs 60FPS so pushing that to the exclusion of other features is not always the way to go.
Gamernyc78
Banned
Well....is it NATIVE 4k????
I do have to give them props for specifically calling out that there's no reason to FORCE native 4k when you can do dynamic 4k and then enable things like RT. At least, if it's needed. They're right about that. No reason to force resolution. But, I feel the same about framerate. Not every game needs 60FPS so pushing that to the exclusion of other features is not always the way to go.
I'm not one tht cares if it's native and we don't know yet. Give me checkerboard and it looks tht good we good still Def better than tht Halo showing.
It's like having a bad/gorgeous looking shorty but her Nani dry. Give me a shorty tht looks almost as good and got tht wet wet and I'll choose tht all day everyday
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icerock
Member
I'm at that point in the video and just paused to write about it here, but you've already covered that.
Seriously, why is he so condescending about any graphical discussion involving Sony FP? It's not only him, I've seen many PCMR members get tilted and start talking out of their ass whenever there is discussion regarding fidelity of FP games from them. Few minutes before that he was going on about how 'premier game in Halo showcasing more gameplay than the entire Sony conference' is such a good thing before John cut him off.
10 mins into the video and I can already see this being a slog to finish as he'll jam in few more snarky comments here and there.
Nowcry
Member
I start to think that it could be real.
We are 4 months from launch and everything running on equivalent PC hardware?
Very weird. Something strange happens and I hope that people do not have to discover it when the SX is already at home.
Many devs speaking well of PS5, many rumors of 3rd removed from the internet.
Some things have happened to start doubting.
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Tiago07
Member
It's quite strange too, but let's see how the things goes.
The Next MS move will probably be after Sony "definitive August Event".
If after this we don't see nothing Series X related or even "captured in XSX"....
Yep something is not going well.
I started to suspect about it when we see Halo Infinite with not so good graphics and running in a PC with "expected XSX version".
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Moridianae
Member
My best friend questioned this morning "Could this kill the Xbox?"
Of course, the answer is an overwhelming negative. It'll still have its massive fan base and those Big Three(Halo, Fable, Forza) will have their place, even if they have faltered in years since.
I did say that, with this lackluster showing, I felt that Microsoft will now forever be in the race for second in the majority eye.
Simply...because I feel the *idea* they are going for(Gamepass ecosystem, cross gen) doesn't cross well with having so much power at your disposal.
It's made for a bit of a tough marketing position for them.
Of course, the answer is an overwhelming negative. It'll still have its massive fan base and those Big Three(Halo, Fable, Forza) will have their place, even if they have faltered in years since.
I did say that, with this lackluster showing, I felt that Microsoft will now forever be in the race for second in the majority eye.
Simply...because I feel the *idea* they are going for(Gamepass ecosystem, cross gen) doesn't cross well with having so much power at your disposal.
It's made for a bit of a tough marketing position for them.
R3claimer117
Member
All this halo hate and I bet it still ends up being a top seller this holiday.
kyliethicc
Member
Agreed. I bet Spider-Man Miles Morales will have 2 options.I'm not one tht cares if it's native and we don't know yet. Give me checkerboard and it looks tht good we good still Def better than tht Halo showing.
It's like having a bad/gorgeous looking shorty but her Nani dry. Give me a shorty tht looks almost as good and got tht wet wet and I'll choose tht all day everyday
60 FPS w/ 4K checkboarding (temporal injection) performance mode
or
native 4K 30 FPS resolution mode.
kyliethicc
Member
Bet Microsoft won’t release sales numbers. Most will just play Halo on Game Pass, so no need to buy it.
icerock
Member
Finished it, and yeah overall they were pretty critical about it. John is generally honest about his takes, and he chimed in with good points. Alex was trying to be professional while channeling his inner fanboy, mostly fine but couldn't help himself with few jabs like 'RT reflections are better looking than GT7'. Of course, they are Alex, remember Forza is running at 30fps while GT7 is at 60fps? Funny how John immediately pointed that out. Lastly, perhaps the most disappointed in the entire showing was Richard, he's likes Xbox and he seemed crushed by the end.
Watching that was a roller-coaster in itself, pretty entertaining.
Watching that was a roller-coaster in itself, pretty entertaining.
R3claimer117
Member
Lol
isn’t SOT on game pass and has still sold like 4 million copies? Just because it’s on game pass doesn’t mean everyone will have game pass or won’t buy the physical game. If anything it might drive up game pass subs which will still be a success. I’m think by November there should Be around 15 million subs or more.
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
'RT reflections are better looking than GT7'.
Is this even true? They hardly showed anything
Is this even true? They hardly showed anything
kyliethicc
Member
Oh for sure it will help get Game Pass more subs, that’s obvious. But did Microsoft ever say how many copies Gears 5 sold?Lol
lepermessiah
Member
It's obvious why the PR spin has been as intense as it has been, there needs to be disclaimers about spec sheet theoretical power and real world power and performance. This shit just doesn't pass muster anymore.
R3claimer117
Member
If 15 million people are paying 15 dollars a month to play the game does it matter how many physical copies it sold when in three months they can make more money then the paid to make the game?
By-mission
Member
12,1 Tflp's X 1,8 Tflp's
Sinthor
Gold Member
I disagree on this. IF Lockhart comes out as some $199 gamepass oriented device I fear that it COULD completely cannibalize Microsoft's sales of the XSX. If that happens, I think Microsoft could well decided to focus on their "platform" strategy and retreat to the position of just having the lockhart type devices in the future. Stick with the lower end of technology and focus on buying the game once and running it everywhere for consumers. I hope not, but that's what I fear could well happen. I don't think Microsoft will feel the hardware market is viable for them if they continue to sell half or less than half the number of hardware units that Sony does. Having an ultra low cost low end device available for sale holds the danger of having the market focus on THAT box instead of the XSX which costs them more but also will have a higher profit margin for them
Sinthor
Gold Member
I think this quote is bunk, frankly. When they analyzed the GT7 rt reflections they actually showed what they were talking about and detailed it. These comments were made in the several seconds of visibility they had from the trailer. So they weren't able to detail ANYTHING. Also they were able to verify and see RT in GAMEPLAY for GT7 and that was not the case for the Forza trailer. They even discussed the possibility that RT reflections might just be shown in 30fps replay footage and other areas of the game that are 30fps. So a lot to be determined yet.
Objectively looking at the trailer myself, I would say that Forza looked really good and there was clearly RT in effect. However, no gameplay was shown so we don't know anything about that, besides the fact that we don't know if this was even running on XSX. Also, the gameplay outdoor terrain shown during the GT7 clips looked more realistic and better than the outdoor scenery shown during this, admittedly very short, clip from Forza. IMHO. Bottom line, I think there's a long way to go for comparison between Forza and GT7. Unless I'm recalling this incorrectly, Forza also was one of the titles that didn't show it was coming to Xbox One. If that's the case, it means it's at least two years off, which DOUBLY makes it likely that what we saw in the trailer is not representative of gameplay. If I'm misremembering that, it would be a good thing for Xbox fans as it means they'll get Forza much sooner and we will all be able to compare between that and GT7 much sooner as well.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
They have multi bounce and high res reflections.
But it was also 30 fps and prerendered unlike gt7 which was all real-time
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