Support NeoGAF

[Wraith Phantom]

So next gen consoles and RDNA 2 must have put pressure on Nvidia to go for lower prices than expected.

Could AMD have asked Sony and Microsoft to wait to announce prices til later, and also held back RDNA 2 prices, all in a unified plan to keep Nvidia guessing and hope they'd announce 3000 prices first? The consoles are AMD RDNA2 as well after all.

Maybe that and covid pushed all this back. AMD should show their stuff soon now. Maybe all the RDNA2 GPUs & consoles will announce prices soon?

Economy. Need to show good quarters during pandemic.Major competetion from AMD. AMD are bringing the heat.Pretty obvious.

Additionally Diminishing returns in marketing terms TFLOPS,4K blah,blaj. Everyone can hit 4K/60. In the end a £50 nike shoe & £160. Nike Jordans is the same shit. Still a trainer for sports or casual wear. You either bought them for utility or looks. No actually difference outside cost of design /materials.

Consoles high value/status in gaming. These are only things I can think of with those "shock" prices.In the end you have to reflect the times. You cant charge high price for things many other devices can do. Unless your Louis Vuitton level status (166 years old luxury brand) and deliver on quality.

 

[Brudda26]

RTX I/O = DIRECT Storage API = Big win for Xbox and Microsoft. Microsoft did what Sony did I/O wise but made it universal with PC and Console DX12U.

Very tired so cant understand if this is sarcasm but if it's not. Your hilariously wrong.

 

[FunkMiller]

NV is making from 7 GB/s PCIE-4 SSD 14 GB/S, PS5 is placed around 9 GB/s and even 22 GB/s is perfectly handled.
XSX is standing on miserable 5 GB/s.

There is no reason to buy XSX over PC right now. I'm sorry one ; money.
There is a reason to buy PS5 over XSX and PCs : SONY exclusives tittles.

You have money : PC and PS5
You don't have money : PS5
You don't have money and you want to miss some GOTY games for no reason : XSX, XSS

Perfectly put.

The Series X has NO u.s.p.

That’s disastrous for a product in this field.

 

[TheGreatWhiteShark]

RTX I/O = DIRECT Storage API = Big win for Xbox and Microsoft. Microsoft did what Sony did I/O wise but made it universal with PC and Console DX12U.

They still have to deliver first, as I wrote previously

 

[3liteDragon]

 

[sircaw]

one characteristic of having money, is that you don't make such a big deal about it.
then I look at your posts, they all talk about money and poors....

Just out of curiosity what do you think about the speeds he is linking, i am not technical i am sure you know that but, he linked them there, whats your take on it?

NV is making from 7 GB/s PCIE-4 SSD 14 GB/S, PS5 is placed around 9 GB/s and even 22 GB/s is perfectly handled.
XSX is standing on miserable 5 GB/s.

Is he lying, are those numbers true?

Is there truth in his comment etc etc.

 

[kyliethicc]

Sony alone said their solution uses 11 zen 2 cores worth of power. Kinda insane nvidiatis going that route

Watch Coreteks video on the consoles. He shows how Nvidia has been focusing on IO communication for a while. Nvidia and Sony both agree IO is a huge bottleneck for performance going forward, both are building custom IO units to offload the work from the CPU.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

What I don't get with Nvidia's I/O decompression specs (24 cores) is why Microsoft's XSX version (5 Zen2 cores) seems really weak in comparison even though they must have been aware of this given the DirectStorage link?

Microsoft clearly knew about Sony's variable clocks so must also have known what they were doing on the I/O said too (9 Zen2 cores).

 

[Wraith Phantom]

The decompression through Ampere GPUs maxes out at 14 GB/s. That is the figure that's being quoted in the Nvidia slide. The Kraken decompression unit is capable of 22 GB/s. These are the figures Alex should have compared, but naturally he didn't.

I think old boys jump the gun here. Direct storage is all software. Rough times for XSX & PC.

Where's geordie when you need him.

 

[Saudumm]

RTX I/O = DIRECT Storage API = Big win for Xbox and Microsoft. Microsoft did what Sony did I/O wise but made it universal with PC and Console DX12U.

I don't understand how a proprietary Nvidia technology is a big win for Xbox?

 

[ErRor88]

They still have to deliver first, as I wrote previously

True but they are now shipping the new APIs and with that shift will begin. Dev teams just need to use DX12U and be good at it.

 

[TheGreatWhiteShark]

Just out of curiosity what do you think about the speeds he is linking, i am not technical i am sure you know that but, he linked them there, whats your take on it?

NV is making from 7 GB/s PCIE-4 SSD 14 GB/S, PS5 is placed around 9 GB/s and even 22 GB/s is perfectly handled.
XSX is standing on miserable 5 GB/s.

Is he lying, or those numbers true?

Is there truth in his comment etc etc.

I think xbox speeds are waaaaaaay more than enough improvement and performance for every single game that will come out the coming years.
Even at mid-gen refresh time I don't see any need for them to upgrade, and although I would like to see video games expand that much, I dont see it happening.

 

[Codexer]

 

[quest]

This is so wrong though...
for the DXIO to be a success in PC, it will have to be a success on XSX

Furthermore, I really can't believe how some people are spinning the NVIDIA presentation into XSX negative news.
You guys are sick

Considering direct storage now will be the standard games wil be built around. I can't wait to listen to the apologies from those calling the Microsoft engineers liars and direct storage only PR lol.

 

[Dodkrake]

The decompression through Ampere GPUs maxes out at 14 GB/s. That is the figure that's being quoted in the Nvidia slide. The Kraken decompression unit is capable of 22 GB/s. These are the figures Alex should have compared, but naturally he didn't.

Of course he didnt. He's probably more concerned jerking off to NVIDIA then actually reporting facts.

 

[Wraith Phantom]

I don't understand how a proprietary Nvidia technology is a big win for Xbox?

No its not nvidias its MS. The same one from XSX. Same direct storage.

 

[BlueXImpulse]

Of course he didnt. He's probably more concerned jerking off to NVIDIA then actually reporting facts.

He doesn't know anything about PS5. I doubt he's aware that the Kraken decompression unit is capable of 22GB/s.

 

[ErRor88]

I don't understand how a proprietary Nvidia technology is a big win for Xbox?

RTX I/O = DIRECT Storage API with Nvidia GPU.
MS created DIRECT Storage= Big win for MS/Xbox and DX12U.

 

[zaitsu]

one characteristic of having money, is that you don't make such a big deal about it.
then I look at your posts, they all talk about money and poors....

I have money because i don't didn't smoked it on 2080 TI, won't smoke it on 3090 either.
I like giving a thought when i buy something : is it really worth that kind of money ?
3070 is giving me an itch that's some worth buying card over there
PS5 is giving me an itch that's some worth buying console over there

If gamespass would be esclusive to XSX, it would give me same itch.
But PC has it also.
So it's giving me nothing.
God i hate MS for making Xbox brand so miserable.
Glad i've enjoyed x360 moment when it lasted.

 

[kyliethicc]

Just out of curiosity what do you think about the speeds he is linking, i am not technical i am sure you know that but, he linked them there, whats your take on it?

NV is making from 7 GB/s PCIE-4 SSD 14 GB/S, PS5 is placed around 9 GB/s and even 22 GB/s is perfectly handled.
XSX is standing on miserable 5 GB/s.

Is he lying, or those numbers true?

Is there truth in his comment etc etc.

Of course its true. Just numbers.

PS5 - 5.5 GB/s raw, ~ 9 GB/s compressed average
XSX - 2.4 GB/s raw, ~ 4.8 GB/s compressed average

RTX 3000 w/ PCIe Gen4x4 SSD
- Up to 7 GB/s raw, up to 14 GB/s compressed (average?)
- This could depend on what CPU is used too.

 

[Tiago07]

If you guys want to watch it.

 

[TheGreatWhiteShark]

Considering direct storage now will be the standard games wil be built around. I can't wait to listen to the apologies from those calling the Microsoft engineers liars and direct storage only PR lol.

These people dont even apologize to me, when we are talking in here together, they are attacking me and they are proven wrong.
Do you really think they will apologize for calling their "worst enemy" a liar? Really?
I don't think they have that human capacity

 

[Saudumm]

No its no nvidias its MS. the same one from XSX.

RTX I/O is using Microsofts Direct Storage API only to access data on the SSD. The rest is Nvidia technology.

 

[Brudda26]

True but they are now shipping the new APIs and with that shift will begin. Dev teams just need to use DX12U and be good at it.

Direct storage just allows nvidia to make use of I/O stuff without having to go and make an expensive proprietary software. The actual physical numbers are achieved because of stuff on nvidia hardware side mainly stuff done on the GPU itself.

 

[vpance]

I think old boys jump the gun here. Direct storage is all software. Rough times for XSX & PC.

Where's geordie when you need him.

PC will have spare processing power to use on the GPU side for sure, but I think latency is still incomparable to PS5 I/O from top to bottom.

 

[kyliethicc]

RTX I/O = DIRECT Storage API with Nvidia GPU.
MS created DIRECT Storage= Big win for MS/Xbox and DX12U.

Except Nvidia RTX IO only supports DX, doesn't require it. And they clearly have custom IO accelerators in the 3000 GPUs.

 

[Dodkrake]

I don't understand how a proprietary Nvidia technology is a big win for Xbox?

In the head of some people, the Xbox catching fire upon first boot would be a big win because it would light up the living room.

 

[zaitsu]

3080 is really 2x2080...
What a beast.

 

[Larryfox]

Reactions from Tim and Andy who were in the 3090 reaction vid of 8k at 60fps

 

[TheGreatWhiteShark]

I have money because i don't didn't smoked it on 2080 TI, won't smoke it on 3090 either.
I like giving a thought when i buy something : is it really worth that kind of money ?
3070 is giving me an itch that's some worth buying card over there
PS5 is giving me an itch that's some worth buying console over there

If gamespass would be esclusive to XSX, it would give me same itch.
But PC has it also.
So it's giving me nothing.
God i hate MS for making Xbox brand so miserable.
Glad i've enjoyed x360 moment when it lasted.

I didnt ask you if you have money, and actually I dont give a damn about your financial position.
You've been calling people "poor" left and right, me included, and I only explained what that means.

 

[zaitsu]

I think xbox speeds are waaaaaaay more than enough improvement and performance for every single game that will come out the coming years.
Even at mid-gen refresh time I don't see any need for them to upgrade, and although I would like to see video games expand that much, I dont see it happening.

k

Why you want to buy XSX over PC ?
Why you want to buy XSX over PS5 ?

Please serious answers.

 

[Mr Moose]

RTX I/O = DIRECT Storage API = Big win for Xbox and Microsoft. Microsoft did what Sony did I/O wise but made it universal with PC and Console DX12U.

What did you expect a PC GPU to use? Not DirectX? We've known about this for months, it's nothing new.

 

[kyliethicc]

Do you see that happening though? We know SeriesX is not a cheap bit of hardware to put together. How much of a loss can they sell it at? Are we talking worse than Sony PS3 losses? Because... ouch.

In fact, double ouch after the relative failure of the XBone.

Idk. They are not making money on Game Pass yet, maybe they will want to profit on hardware.

But the idea I was talking about is just Xbox All Access. They already do the monthly pay for GP and a console. They currently will sell you an Xbox One for less than $150 over 2 years in monthly payments, just to secure 2 years of GPU sub.

Xbox All Access: Xbox Console & Over 100 Games | Xbox

Xbox Series X|S, plus 24 months of Xbox Game Pass Ultimate, from $24.99 a month for 24 months.

www.xbox.com

This is their only way to sell hardware going forward I bet.

 

[Nickolaidas]

This is so wrong though...
for the DXIO to be a success in PC, it will have to be a success on XSX

Furthermore, I really can't believe how some people are spinning the NVIDIA presentation into XSX negative news.
You guys are sick

Why three laughing emojis? Why not two, four or five?

Is this a 'code' for trolling?

I noticed this on twitter too. Whenever someone wants to troll or annoy someone, he spouts his asinine logic, then adds three laughing emojis.

It's a code, isn't it?

 

[zaitsu]

Of course its true. Just numbers.

PS5 - 5.5 GB/s raw, ~ 9 GB/s compressed average
XSX - 2.4 GB/s raw, ~ 4.8 GB/s compressed average

RTX 3000 w/ PCIe Gen4x4 SSD
- Up to 7 GB/s raw, up to 14 GB/s compressed (average?)
- This could depend on what CPU is used too.

Damn Xbox like holding nextgen with xbox one wasn't enough.
Now they are holding nextgen with XSX and XSS !

 

[IntentionalPun]

nVidia stuff is pretty juicy!

Probably wait a year or so but will definitely built a system around 3080 at some point; probably wait for higher memory units.

 

[Elog]

Cerny was right again - I/O will be king the next gen to drive graphics, Interesting how fast the narrative changes once Nvidia entered the scene saying the same thing

Looking at the PS5 numbers and how they compare (looks slightly superior to me - but we need to look at averages) - PS5 is really a beast.

Will be interesting to see the average latency on the 3090 compared to PS5 - believe the PS5 will win that race with some margin due to the longer hardware chain on the PC but we will see.

 

[ErRor88]

Except Nvidia RTX IO only supports DX, doesn't require it. And they clearly have custom IO accelerators in the 3000 GPUs.

They're probably using the tensor cores to decompress the assets. Either way, DIRECT Storage API is the method of delivery. Everyone can try to downplay it but any I/O delivery on Windows is because of DX12U and the innovation MS brings to it's OS.

 

[kyliethicc]

What I don't get with Nvidia's I/O decompression specs (24 cores) is why Microsoft's XSX version (5 Zen2 cores) seems really weak in comparison even though they must have been aware of this given the DirectStorage link?

Microsoft clearly knew about Sony's variable clocks so must also have known what they were doing on the I/O said too (9 Zen2 cores).

Well thats because in that scenario Nvidia is using a 7 GB/s raw SSD. Tons of data being moved.

The amount of cores that would needed for handling IO scales with speed. So PS5 is 5.5 GB/s raw and therefore it needs 9 Zen2 cores (equivalent) to handle decompression.

XSX is only 2.4 GB/s raw, so it doesn't need that many Zen2 cores to handle its IO decompression.

 

[Killer Sakoman]

So after NV show XSX must be priced lower than 500$ to make anyone even consider buying it over PC.
This is very happy news for us - becuase I'M like 99% confident over pricing both consoles at 499$, with PS5 DE at 399$ and XSX at 299$.
It will be as cheap as this gen was.

This card is fantastic. It allows you to build a $1200 highend next gen PC from scratch. 4k DLSS 60 fps games with RT on.
A console killer. This proves that a console needs content to sell.

 

[kyliethicc]

They're probably using the tensor cores to decompress the assets. Either way, DIRECT Storage API is the method of delivery. Everyone can try to downplay it but any I/O delivery on Windows is because of DX12U and the innovation MS brings to it's OS.

Only supports it. Not required.

 

[Dodkrake]

Nvidia showing that Sony was right and Microsoft was wrong in their respective approaches, and absolutely humiliating the sad sad numbers in the Xbox's IO, is now proof, that MS wins. I'm gonna be honest, some people here do need psychiatric help. This is not healthy.

I'm honestly sad there is no competition to Playstation, yet again, and with Microsoft's approach to multi gen games as a service thing, even their limited but good exclusives will likely be a shell of their former selves.

 

[zaitsu]

Cerny was right again - I/O will be king the next gen to drive graphics, Interesting how fast the narrative changes once Nvidia entered the scene saying the same thing

Looking at the PS5 numbers and how they compare (looks slightly superior to me - but we need to look at averages) - PS5 is really a beast.

Will be interesting to see the average latency on the 3090 compared to PS5 - believe the PS5 will win that race with some margin due to the longer hardware chain on the PC but we will see.

BuT SsD iS oNlY fOr LoAdInGs

 

[Killer Sakoman]

smoke on what game? marbles?
i guarantee to you that PS5 will have best looking games next-gen PC simply doesn't have enough talented studios it only have Rockstar and CD-Red which multiplatform btw, so sony is big 7 vs PC big 2.

He means it will smoke a console that has no advantage over PC content wise.

 

[ksdixon]

Go away Ubisoft, you're not the event on Sept 10th I want to see announced.

 

[Neo Blaster]

Let's see, I'm reading a lot of dramas.



Spiderman takes 0.83 seconds to load. R&C doesn't take longer. The rest of the time is the period used for the "visual" transition from one world to another. If there was no such transition, you would see a black screen for 0.83 seconds. If you pass the demo frame by frame you will be able to check the exact moment between the start of the load and the end of it. Not from the transition. Just the load. And it does not reach 1 second (by very little). This will be a constant in all PS5 games, so it is more worth it for unbelievers to assume it.

Spoiler: So fast

 

[Bo_Hazem]

11 Zen 2 cores for up to 22GB/s. It's more efficient.

Not just that, it's separated, not using either the GPU nor the CPU. This is great news, makes the PS5 Pro pretty much realistic.

 

[Wraith Phantom]

PC will have spare processing power to use on the GPU side for sure, but I think latency is still incomparable to PS5 I/O from top to bottom.

Yeah its not getting close to PS5 in latency.To man seperate parts, dx12,winndows To many layers as Sweeny said. Should be interesting how people decipher this shit until next week.

I did'nt see anything special it just looked like software solution. Looked like MS version ,but fit for nvidia cards. Might have to check the diagrams again. I'm still reading the Sony Tech PDF. Trying to get my basic ass to understand that stuff.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Entroyp]

Nvidia showing that Sony was right and Microsoft was wrong in their respective approaches, and absolutely humiliating the sad sad numbers in the Xbox's IO, is now proof, that MS wins. I'm gonna be honest, some people here do need psychiatric help. This is not healthy.

I'm honestly sad there is no competition to Playstation, yet again, and with Microsoft's approach to multi gen games as a service thing, even their limited but good exclusives will likely be a shell of their former selves.

I remember some folks saying it was all PR and Sony’s TV TV TV moment. Those folks looked like fools back then and even more so now.

 

[ThaMonkeyClaw]

Only supports it. Not required.

That's the key thing there, how many developers are going to take advantage of it since only 0.01% of people will be able to take advantage of it, probably very few.