Balducci30
Member
Yikes
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CDPR institutes mandatory six-day work weeks for Cyberpunk 2077
- Thread starter Bboy AJ
- Start date
Portugeezer
Member
Planting the seed in our minds before they announce the delay.
2021 GOTY.
2021 GOTY.
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Lethal01
Member
For many it is, I've seen people who work in all kinds of fields fall apart when having to do monotonous desk jobs. Doing one does not make doing the other easy, they are often very different challenged.
GHG
Member
Delays only ever lead to more crunch.
A delay means crunch already started and that the crunch wasn't going to be enough to get a decent product out the door in time for the original release date.
A delay just means the crunch is being extended.
Anyone who believes otherwise has never worked in software dev.
A delay means crunch already started and that the crunch wasn't going to be enough to get a decent product out the door in time for the original release date.
A delay just means the crunch is being extended.
Anyone who believes otherwise has never worked in software dev.
Yeah.... let’s put a spin on this and blame the employees themselves.
Fucking seriously?
Here’s how CDPR rolls: “Hey, everyone! CDPR here. We just want to let you know what a great dev we are. We won’t ever ask our people to crunch. That’s just bad for our employees. We even said this to them when we hired them. Again, it’s super important we let you know about this, because you NEED to know what a great company we are! Thank you for your time.”
I’ve said this so many times now.... CDPR needs to cut out this PR crap. They’ve proven over and over that they‘ll say one thing and do something else.
It’s astonishing how many gamers have fallen for their bullshit.
Fucking seriously?
Here’s how CDPR rolls: “Hey, everyone! CDPR here. We just want to let you know what a great dev we are. We won’t ever ask our people to crunch. That’s just bad for our employees. We even said this to them when we hired them. Again, it’s super important we let you know about this, because you NEED to know what a great company we are! Thank you for your time.”
I’ve said this so many times now.... CDPR needs to cut out this PR crap. They’ve proven over and over that they‘ll say one thing and do something else.
It’s astonishing how many gamers have fallen for their bullshit.
Lethal01
Member
Really disingenuous to act like I'm saying me talking about it here is me trying to change it. I'm just commenting that it's fucked up, nothing more. You're acting like unless we are doing something to change a specific thing we can't talk about it and it's stupid to discuss it, if that were true then you wouldn't be here arguing.
I only got the power to decrease crunch in my country, but when someone asks for comment about mandatory crunch in another country I will point out that it's obviously bad.
Paracelsus
Member
I am not sure, but I think this is why a few og TW1 veterans bailed the hell out.
Is it history repeating itself?
Is it history repeating itself?
Scotty W
Member
Look everyone, hypocrites!!!
The whole situation is nonsense. I’ve seen this company bashed many times for delays, and now they are being bashed for crunch.
Rikkori
Member
What bothers me about the discussion on this topic is that it ignores the fact that these devs aren't slaves, and they're not child miners in some third-world shithole that have no other choice either. These are qualified professionals who can always choose to work somewhere else. That they don't is entirely on them, and I have no "sympathy" for that.
Moreover, the attitude I see here and on other similar forums is one that strikes me as particularly childish (or should I say child-like). It's the attitude of not understanding how life works, of feeling entitled to all kinds of things but never once questioning how they come into existence in the first place - or what it takes to have a society where these things exist at all. Everything in life requires a sacrifice, and the more you want to accomplish then the greater the sacrifice. Clearly the devs themselves understand this, and they've made their choice, so why is it that outsiders have such a problem with the choice they've made?
Or is it virtue signalling all the way down? Hey, look at me, I'm such a good person, I'm against people working long hours. Everyone should work only as much as they feel like, and they should be paid however much they feel is fair, and we should all just get along and hold hands and sing kumbaya together! It's so simple, why doesn't anyone get it!
Moreover, the attitude I see here and on other similar forums is one that strikes me as particularly childish (or should I say child-like). It's the attitude of not understanding how life works, of feeling entitled to all kinds of things but never once questioning how they come into existence in the first place - or what it takes to have a society where these things exist at all. Everything in life requires a sacrifice, and the more you want to accomplish then the greater the sacrifice. Clearly the devs themselves understand this, and they've made their choice, so why is it that outsiders have such a problem with the choice they've made?
Or is it virtue signalling all the way down? Hey, look at me, I'm such a good person, I'm against people working long hours. Everyone should work only as much as they feel like, and they should be paid however much they feel is fair, and we should all just get along and hold hands and sing kumbaya together! It's so simple, why doesn't anyone get it!
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Lethal01
Member
It's really not that black and white and I don't think we have REAL statistics on this.
Personally I've been in and seen firsthand several situations where companys delayed in order to have less crunch.
These situations are far more common when the company is actually under pressure to crunch less.
Lethal01
Member
Perhaps, hear me out. The internet isn't a hive mind, tons of people were totally fine with delays and expressed that they much prefer this to the Developer making the employees crunch.
B-universe
Banned
Please read back what I was responding to, for context.
Likewise, I'm just commenting on your comments.
Again, please read back what I quoted, for context.
You can do whatever you feel like doing and the rules allow for.
You hold the power to "decrease crunch" on a country-wide scale?
You're a politician, are you?
It's obvious to you.
Luckily, other people's lives are not governed by what you deem obviously bad, because what you deem obviously bad can be obviously good to them.
And provided no individual rights are being violated - and employment is voluntary and therefore does not violate individual rights - they can do whatever they please, even if it troubles your conscience.
Their conscience, their lives.
Not yours.
DJT123
Member
I don't like the fact that Schrier is breathing down CDPR's neck. They have more than enough on their plate trying to create a great contempory work? Who is he to stand in the way. At the end of the day CDPR is only really accountable to itself, its staff, and us, the fans. (and its shareholders)
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SlimeGooGoo
Party Gooper
.
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Nhranaghacon
Banned
so wrong it's almost sad, actually no it's very sad.
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DavidGzz
Member
Oh no, they have to work harder for a couple of months. Maybe take your own advice and "No, don't be stupid, stop that." by comparing game development to emergency dispatching.
It's not the end of the world man, it's crunch for the last stretch of what, 7 years since this was revealed?
Piku_Ringo
Banned
CuNi
Member
I'll go through from top to bottom.
I never said they are a bad studio.
I said people believe those companies are unfailable. Kojima made MGS, and he was very good at this genre, there is nothing to talk down there, just as CDPR did a very very good job on most of the Witcher Series with a few hiccups here and there but still above the average game dev back then. But my point is, they're not doing a Fantasy-Middle-Age RPG this time. This is Cyberpunk, a completely different genre that needs completely different game mechanics and has a world that works in a fundamentally different way. Yes CDPR has a very good chance in succeeding and delivering a game that holds up to their name, but that is not a guarantee.
Wall running? Canceled.
Multiplayer? Taken out of the game and will now release 2021.
First it was "no MTX", now we're at "no MTX for SP but MP will have some sort of it". This backpaddling is also a negative sign.
Gunplay looks quite shallow compared to other Shooters out there, which is a shame really.
Early on, the possibility to approach a issue in different ways was heavily advertised, from the demos I've seen at GC etc. they really dumped that down and it's usually either Guns blazing or "stealth" that ends with Guns blazing.
And those issues are not just seen by me but also by some of the media out there, forums etc.
Game gets delayed 3x and pushed back over a year while showing off the very same section of the game as "proof of progression" for most of its time on top of that.
Like I said it can still turn out to be a great game but for me this all looks watered down because back in the day before the very first delay they were optimistic and the further down the delay-chain you go, the more and more things get shafted under the rug and taken out of the game to not have to delay the game again.
Also, "crunch" is proof of bad time management. The excuse "but everyone does it!" is not valid. If everyone would be jumping off a bridge, would you say it can't be that bad because everyone is doing it?
It's mental to handwave crunch away. "Luckily" crunch usually happens at the very end of development when the final deadline approaches, but with CP2077, you've heard talks of crunch as early as January 2020 where they admitted there will be crunch.
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poor things
GHG
Member
Instances where crunch doesn't happen in the industry are rare, especially so with larger scale projects. The only difference in most cases is the amount of time spent crunching. Is it a couple of days, is it weeks or is it months?
There's no such thing as perfect software but yet that's what everyone (who cares) strives for - trying to perfect what cannot be perfected. Fix one bug and 3 other new ones will rear their head as a result. The nature of the work will inevitably lead to crunch more often than not, it's part and parcel of the job.
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GreyHorace
Member
I work 6 days a week with some overtime inserted in. What's the big deal?
Strategize
Member
I'm not hear to poo poo the crunch itself.
But if anyone that went at Naughty Dog, Rockstar or anyone else for crunch tries to damage control or simply stay silent here, just know you're a disgusting hypocrite, Thanks for coming to my ted talk.
But if anyone that went at Naughty Dog, Rockstar or anyone else for crunch tries to damage control or simply stay silent here, just know you're a disgusting hypocrite, Thanks for coming to my ted talk.
DeceptiveAlarm
Gold Member
I mean its almost October. What date does this come out? We're talking about what 4-6 Saturdays? So what.
Strategize
Member
MR ARCADE FOREVER
Member
Poor workers. I bet they are all getting paid below the minimum wage. Just like the average American worker working two jobs to be able to pay expensive rent and health insurance. But don't worry, socialism will fix all these issues by sharing your next gen console with those who can't afford so you will only be able to play once a month.
Fbh
Member
I'm sure some people in some departments at different times during the project. Just as in every big company ever and every big multiyear project ever.
As a "everyone has to work 6 days" thing? I don't know, haven't read anything like that. Do you have some source ?
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ZZZZ
Member
I don't see anyone here saying CDPR are saints that can do no wrong do you?
So i guess it's not the same situation.
If they were crunching before, Schreier would have made it news already.
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B-universe
Banned
And the winner of the prestigious SPOT award, Silliest Post Of the Thread goes, tentatively, to the author of the following, none other than
Kenpachii
:
Don't quit your day job. Satire is not your forte.
Your caricature, that exists in your mind alone and perhaps in some paperbacks - as devs will be working one extra day per week times 8 weeks, do the math, the grand total of 8 extra days which you're desperately trying to equate with modern slavery - your desperate caricature will never ever manage to obfuscate the fundamental truth:
The lives of devs belong to themselves. Not me, not you, not CDPR. If devs want to crunch, for whatever reason, it's their right and they will face whatever possible consequences, including but not limited to poor health, broken relationships, etc. If, on the contrary, they will not crunch, also their right, they will also face consequences.
It's always their decision, not mine, not yours.
You can stuff your moralistic preaching where it belongs.
The concept of individual rights is just alien to you. The concept of voluntary non-coerced relations between individuals is just a mirage to you.
It never crosses your mind not everyone shares your values and your perspective on life and that they're by no means obliged to follow your valise and your perspective, no matter how well-meaning you may think it is.
Yes, the word Fuck seems to be en vogue these days, notably to try to cover for poor or even absent arguments.
Try harder.
Swear more.
Kenpachii
:Don't quit your day job. Satire is not your forte.
Your caricature, that exists in your mind alone and perhaps in some paperbacks - as devs will be working one extra day per week times 8 weeks, do the math, the grand total of 8 extra days which you're desperately trying to equate with modern slavery - your desperate caricature will never ever manage to obfuscate the fundamental truth:
The lives of devs belong to themselves. Not me, not you, not CDPR. If devs want to crunch, for whatever reason, it's their right and they will face whatever possible consequences, including but not limited to poor health, broken relationships, etc. If, on the contrary, they will not crunch, also their right, they will also face consequences.
It's always their decision, not mine, not yours.
You can stuff your moralistic preaching where it belongs.
The concept of individual rights is just alien to you. The concept of voluntary non-coerced relations between individuals is just a mirage to you.
It never crosses your mind not everyone shares your values and your perspective on life and that they're by no means obliged to follow your valise and your perspective, no matter how well-meaning you may think it is.
Yes, the word Fuck seems to be en vogue these days, notably to try to cover for poor or even absent arguments.
Try harder.
Swear more.
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anothertech
Member
Almost there...
Strategize
Member
Glad to know my comment lured some out. Literally the first tweet right after the headline.
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whats wrong with 6 days a week ? that can be normal in some places, not to be rude but they are sat on they're asses probably most of the day dong something they love or else they wouldn't be there. they are not on their feet on the go form start till finish and without any form of a break.
if they need to crunch that's on them for giving a release day for an unfinished game. i feel bad for people that bought into the xbox one x console. i did but returned it when they delayed it money well saved.
since next gen version isnt coming to next year theres no rush in me playing this i dont plan to play it more than once so i'd rather wait for the optimal experience. it's turning into another last of us 2 with delays.
if they need to crunch that's on them for giving a release day for an unfinished game. i feel bad for people that bought into the xbox one x console. i did but returned it when they delayed it money well saved.
since next gen version isnt coming to next year theres no rush in me playing this i dont plan to play it more than once so i'd rather wait for the optimal experience. it's turning into another last of us 2 with delays.
ZZZZ
Member
Nowhere in that tweet says they were in mandatory crunch before.
Would need to know more details before coming to a conclusion.
Edit: Still... this is not slave labor, if you are unhappy you can quit anytime.
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Audiophile
Member
While I absolutely have sympathy with those who suffer immense stress from work, having been in the position myself while also having concurrent psychological struggles...
Is this really "crunch"? It seems to me there's "ideal work", "crunch" and a vast grey area in between. Does this culture of excessive work in all fields suck and is it far from ideal? Absolutely..!
But, if this is simply them adding on an extra working day for a temporary period (presumably ~6 weeks if it's from this point to launch), then it really is no different than say, a semi-skilled factory job.
I worked at a car factory for nearly 5 years and standard practice was to have a mandatory 30-60 mins added on to shifts if needed and with only a day's notice. It was also standard practice to have periods of 3-6 months where mandatory Saturdays could be added on 1-3 times a month.
A ~6 week stint near the end of a project with a [paid overtime] Saturday tacked on really isn't that bad in the grand scheme of things. Also, when you actually apply for a job, you have to take into account the reality of the position.
This strikes me as a "mandatory, shitty bit of extra time at work" because the project wasn't perfectly managed (find me a job that is). Jumping straight to "CRUNCH!" seems hyperbolic.
If this is what's regarded as crunch, then the average semi-skilled factory worker is doing "EXTRA CRUNCHY CRUNCH!!"; and while game development is often over-romanticized and focusing on shit on a screen can be exhausting, trust me when I say a mass-production car factory job would without a doubt be miserable by comparison.
Again, I'm not justifying it and I don't like it. But it's not as cut and dry as a little extra mandatory work = "CRUNCH TIL YOUR EYES BLEED!". There's a vast space inbetween.
Is this really "crunch"? It seems to me there's "ideal work", "crunch" and a vast grey area in between. Does this culture of excessive work in all fields suck and is it far from ideal? Absolutely..!
But, if this is simply them adding on an extra working day for a temporary period (presumably ~6 weeks if it's from this point to launch), then it really is no different than say, a semi-skilled factory job.
I worked at a car factory for nearly 5 years and standard practice was to have a mandatory 30-60 mins added on to shifts if needed and with only a day's notice. It was also standard practice to have periods of 3-6 months where mandatory Saturdays could be added on 1-3 times a month.
A ~6 week stint near the end of a project with a [paid overtime] Saturday tacked on really isn't that bad in the grand scheme of things. Also, when you actually apply for a job, you have to take into account the reality of the position.
This strikes me as a "mandatory, shitty bit of extra time at work" because the project wasn't perfectly managed (find me a job that is). Jumping straight to "CRUNCH!" seems hyperbolic.
If this is what's regarded as crunch, then the average semi-skilled factory worker is doing "EXTRA CRUNCHY CRUNCH!!"; and while game development is often over-romanticized and focusing on shit on a screen can be exhausting, trust me when I say a mass-production car factory job would without a doubt be miserable by comparison.
Again, I'm not justifying it and I don't like it. But it's not as cut and dry as a little extra mandatory work = "CRUNCH TIL YOUR EYES BLEED!". There's a vast space inbetween.
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Fbh
Member
ultrazilla
Gold Member
The game will be delayed. CD Projekt is simply giving themselves an "out" this time because they know people would be pissed over *another* delay(into 2021).
So they announce that they're going to make all their people crunch until the game ships which will drum up the "just delay it, don't crunch your employees" sentiment from fans/other industry folk.
They come back out with another press release and say after much internal discussion and due to the ongoing Covid 19, not wanting to go back on their "no crunch" mandate, they'll announce
they will instead delay the game until Summer 2021.
So they announce that they're going to make all their people crunch until the game ships which will drum up the "just delay it, don't crunch your employees" sentiment from fans/other industry folk.
They come back out with another press release and say after much internal discussion and due to the ongoing Covid 19, not wanting to go back on their "no crunch" mandate, they'll announce
they will instead delay the game until Summer 2021.
FukuDaruma
Member
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