Support NeoGAF

[JimboJones]

and called out the SSD’s theoretical 5.5 gbps number like it’s a negative when it’s more than 2 times the speed of x’s and he only spoke of it in terms of storage which is pretty ridiculous. But, we’ll see...

He literally says "to produce the phenomenal 5.5GB/s"

And

"Potential speeds are extraordinary even before decompression is factored in"

How is that negative?!

You are really reaching here. That or your extremely paranoid. It amazes me the amount of over analyzing you guys do over specific words and sentences.

 

[FrankWza]

I love the part they compared everything with xsx and when it came time for WiFi 6 , they just said who really has router WiFi 6 and didn't mention xsx WiFi 5

Or half the USB speeds. Or half the SSD speed. Or dram. But whatever.

 

[DeepEnigma]

So people complain they don't do a video and then complain about the one they do, lol. Maybe the problem isn't DF.

Nuance, a lost art.

 

[Agnostic2020]

I think they did a great job here considering they don't have a physical one themselves. I'd imagine it'd be hard to make a valid comparison when you have one console and not the other. Also, I saw someone mentioning the magnitude of XSX references in it, but, how can you blame him/them? They have a physical XSX, not to mention they're supposed to be comparing the two. I would imagine there'd be a stronger feeling of confidence regarding the console you can physically interact with, as opposed to the one you can only absorb media of.

Really looking forward to them getting into the PS5's nitty gritty when they can actually get one themselves. I think it's pretty silly that XSX consoles are all over the place and PS5s, not so much.

Ps4 and pro were sent to media outlet both 10 days before launch . Why would it he different this time ? Sony doesn't have to follow what ms does imo

 

[sinnergy]

The context. He’s applying it to SSD in a classic HD -sense. That’s not what they’re going for with PS5 and he knows it. We already know it’s crazy fast loading. It’s built into the system architecture and is being used to offset needs of the rest of the components.

Sure, but it could well be both load as about as fast in real world performance... or not , maybe ps5 is faster ... that’s why you need real world tests.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

How relevant to the teardown is the comparison on how both companies are communicating information?
Weird video.

Dude, they do not have access to the device itself. What do you expect?

Sometimes I think sony fanboys expect to hear something like how perfect device and get aggressive if it wasn't said. I do feel like they cannot afford anything else aside PS5 so they have to be angry to justify their purchase. PlayStation really created a cult around itself.

 

[sinnergy]

Very cool thank you.

That image does suggest the internal can possibly be changed out

NP.

Yeah it seems to suggest this .

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Well soldering the SSD is kinda weird ...

In Series it at least it looks like MS thought of replacing if needed.

I'm not yet convinced XSX SSD is any different. The below pic was used by a YouTuber to suggest it looked like it was easily replaceable but I'm not so sure that isn't just a CG cutaway to show the inside.

This real picture of the SSD from Austin Evans construction video makes it look like a sealed unit to me that is then soldered to the motherboard. Even if it isn't it still doesn't look easy or cheap to replace. I think both consoles could be expensive outside warranty if you are unlucky to have a SSD fail.

 

[Agnostic2020]

Sure, but it could well be both load as about as fast in real world performance... or not , maybe ps5 is faster ... that’s why you need real world tests.

We have yet to see much below 10 seconds for xsx load times but we have seen many 2 seconds load up for ps5. Difference is there and will be highlighted in 3 weeks

 

[FrankWza]

He literally says "to produce the phenomenal 5.5GB/s"

And

"Potential speeds are extraordinary even before decompression is factored in"

How is that negative?!

You are really reaching here. That or your extremely paranoid. It amazes me the amount of over analyzing you guys do over specific words and sentences.

That’s a perfect opportunity to then point out the compressed numbers. Which are in the double digits.

Edit: hes halving. This was the post you only quoted the end of:
He also left out the USB ports being 10gbps vs x’s 5 and completely downplayed WiFi 6 limiting its benefits to just network throughput and called out the SSD’s theoretical 5.5 gbps number like it’s a negative when it’s more than 2 times the speed of x’s and he only spoke of it in terms of storage which is pretty ridiculous. But, we’ll see...

If you’re introducing compressed data give the compressed number.

 

[Kamina]

DF doesn't do a video = You lot complain
DF finally do a video = You lot complain

?

GAF isnt a single hive-mind that shifts opinions around.
- Some people found Alex’ comment silly and wanted a video
- Other people found his comment silly and didnt want a video due to concerns of the videos quality

Now that the video is out:
- some people are satisfied
- others feel confirmed in their previous opinion

 

[MiguelItUp]

Ps4 and pro were sent to media outlet both 10 days before launch . Why would it he different this time ? Sony doesn't have to follow what ms does imo

Well, things could always change TBH. They don't have to and that's very true, but that doesn't change the fact that it's still hard to make a proper breakdown video when you have one, and not the other. It's good content to make right now, especially when there are folks that want outlet's impressions on the PS5.

 

[sn0man]

XsX has soldered SSD? How come we didn’t know that if that teardown was months ago

I’m a DF defender but this is pretty damning.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I'm not yet convinced XSX SSD is any different. The below pic was used by a YouTuber to suggest it looked like it was easily replaceable but I'm not so sure that isn't just a CG cutaway to show the inside.

This real picture of the SSD from Austin Evans construction video makes it look like a sealed unit to me that is then soldered to the motherboard. Even if it isn't it still doesn't look easy or cheap to replace. I think both consoles could be expensive outside warranty if you are unlucky to have a SSD fail.

That sure doesnt scream its changeable by the average person.

 

[vpance]

I agree. If you look at the square mm of the xsx vs the ps5, it's a considerable difference. Almost all of the ps5 (and its a big bugger as well) is vents in or out. The xsx is forced through, as you say, smaller, almost non existent channels.

To compensate, the xsx fans must be running at a higher speed/pressure to get the air in and out of the system. It doesn't surprise me that there are reports of the xsx chucking out red hot air.

I wonder how much the variable clocks in the PS5 affect the heat output of the unit? If the xsx has 56 (52?) compute units running at 100% regardless of load, vs the ps5 varying the workload over smaller amount of CUs, this could have a game changing impact on heat output. It could mean that the xsx runs as hot in the menu, as it does when running a cutting edge game.

All theoretical until we see retail units in the hands of reviewers and us

I think MS prioritized quietness, so that fan may spin as slowly as PS5’s does. MS must have good confidence in their vapor chamber setup.

 

[JimboJones]

That’s a perfect opportunity to then point out the compressed numbers. Which are in the double digits.

Why? I don't even think Sony used compressed numbers in there road to ps5 , the constantly used the 5.5 in slides.

Honestly I don't think you guys will be happy unless it is a half hour long video of Richard licking Ken Kutaragi's arsehole, even then you'd be wringing your hands about why he didn't give him a reach around.

 

[reksveks]

Ps4 and pro were sent to media outlet both 10 days before launch . Why would it he different this time ? Sony doesn't have to follow what ms does imo

Because those came out in different circumstances. I don't think anyone is saying that Sony has to have the same strategy as xbox but the xbox strategy does personally feel like an evolution of the embargo process. What console are reviewers going to be playing watchdog legions on?

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

That sure doesnt scream its changeable by the average person.

Apart from anything else it would require the user to completely teardown the console to do it! I think both will have server/enterprise grade NAND chips for reliability and we'll hardly ever hear about failures.

 

[CatLady]

This this thread and the the reaction to the DF video is exactly what I predicted we'd see from a certain set of Sony fans in the previous thread bitching about DF. They should have just ignored it unless they had an actual PS5 to do their own teardown.

Digital Foundry: “PS5 teardown is uninteresting, until we get our own hands on"

PS5 teardown happened for some days already and DF did nothing to cover the Sony event. While they keep doing videos about old games nobody cares. When asked why the reply:

www.neogaf.com

The only reason they want DF to do a video on a video of a teardown for a console DF has never even had hands on is they want DF to Ooooh, Aaaah, fawn over the brilliance and superiority of Cerny and Sony and when they don't we will have more idiotic tantrum treads like this one.

 

[mckmas8808]

Stay off twitter when you're on a downer then, it's just common sense most of us learned a long arse time ago

Most have NOT learned that actually. It's a very hard thing to learn.

Ps4 and pro were sent to media outlet both 10 days before launch . Why would it he different this time ? Sony doesn't have to follow what ms does imo

SOMEBODY please tell me this isn't true. If it is true..................*smfh at the video game's media*

 

[mckmas8808]

Because those came out in different circumstances. I don't think anyone is saying that Sony has to have the same strategy as xbox but the xbox strategy does personally feel like an evolution of the embargo process. What console are reviewers going to be playing watchdog legions on?

Xbox's strategy is a strategy born from being last place in this current gen (compared to Sony and Nintendo), that's it. And that's fine for them. Sony doesn't "HAVE" to do the same thing. Hell Nintendo didn't even tell us about the Switch until the last minute before it hit store shelves.

 

[sinnergy]

Apart from anything else it would require the user to completely teardown the console to do it! I think both will have server/enterprise grade NAND chips for reliability and we'll hardly ever hear about failures.

At a service center. Is my bet.

 

[Kerlurk]

Gaming Discussion

Video game news, industry analysis, sales figures, deals, impressions, reviews, and discussions of everything in the medium, covering all platforms, genres, and territories.

www.neogaf.com

 

[sinnergy]

I'm not yet convinced XSX SSD is any different. The below pic was used by a YouTuber to suggest it looked like it was easily replaceable but I'm not so sure that isn't just a CG cutaway to show the inside.

This real picture of the SSD from Austin Evans construction video makes it look like a sealed unit to me that is then soldered to the motherboard. Even if it isn't it still doesn't look easy or cheap to replace. I think both consoles could be expensive outside warranty if you are unlucky to have a SSD fail.

It even has a hinge of the looks of it to lift the top casing. A service center could totally do it.

 

[Romulus]

wifi 6 gets me excited about the possibility of wireless VR. Supposedly its already pretty damn good on Quest 2

 

[Orta]

So people complain they don't do a video and then complain about the one they do, lol. Maybe the problem isn't DF.

Clearly. Had a look at it myself, nothing to get worked up over. But some people can't be happy unless they have something to whinge about though.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

Its ok. Not much they can really do without an actual hands on.

Other than rake in the advertising $. If something is hot you make a fucking video about it to cash in on it. Eceleb 101.

 

[Faithless83]

I got from the DF video that the PS5 SSD was definitely soldered to the board. Perhaps because they were in the room with the engineers that designed the XSX the topic of soldered SSDs didn't come up because there were so many other topics they could touch. Also at the time they didn't know ANYTHING about the PS5's internal design. It's possible both have soldered SSDs but at this point it is only certain PS5 does.

Here timestamped:


Two boards format, do you actually see a slot for the "removable internat SSD storage"? It's southbridge (I/O) board and a northbridge (APU+RAM) board. That's it. But yeah "the topic didn't came up". Here (timestamped), we see him talking about the external SSD and and the cooling solution. Is it any better than having it literally next to the cooler itself?



I said weird video for a reason, compare both teardowns and judge it yourself.

 

[NoMoChokeSJ]

One is hardly exclusive to the other, chief.

Your point? Chief.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

This this thread and the the reaction to the DF video is exactly what I predicted we'd see from a certain set of Sony fans in the previous thread bitching about DF. They should have just ignored it unless they had an actual PS5 to do their own teardown.

Digital Foundry: “PS5 teardown is uninteresting, until we get our own hands on"

PS5 teardown happened for some days already and DF did nothing to cover the Sony event. While they keep doing videos about old games nobody cares. When asked why the reply:

www.neogaf.com

 

[Fake]

 

[FrankWza]

Why? I don't even think Sony used compressed numbers in there road to ps5 , the constantly used the 5.5 in slides.

It was. At least in the accompanying article.
You’re saying that when he introduces compression he should not give the compressed number? And if the number goes to 10 or whatever it might be, he shouldn’t mention it? I think he should have. He’s a tech analyst. Even if he’s got his journalist hat on today, tell me everything you see so I can form my opinion. Isn’t that what we want from everyone who reports on anything? As for the rest of your post I’d rather not go there. My opinion is valid because he halved 3 important aspects. And to be clear, I never felt they needed to do the video. I had an issue with them calling it uninteresting. But, after a week, if you’re gonna do the video...do it up real nice. Half info, half specs, half assed.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

It even has a hinge of the looks of it to lift the top casing. A service center could totally do it.

I see no hinge but I'm sure a service center/computer technician could fix it but at what price? Probably be about the same price as buying a new console!

Few regular people would opt for a fix if the cost is too close to a new unit.

I'll wait for confirmation about XSX SSD but either way I'm not really worried about this at all yet.

 

[jigglet]

wifi 6 gets me excited about the possibility of wireless VR. Supposedly its already pretty damn good on Quest 2

Same here. Wish XB used it too.

I'm still on wifi even though I play competitive shooters. Yeah it's not optimal but one less cable is so damn nice.

 

[gspat]

If the SSD is deep within the system behind a warranty sticker, does it matter if it's soldered down or not? Especially since with solid state electronics, if it's going to fail it will either fail right away or a looong ways down the road.

Sony's SSD is proprietary, unless things change by the time the PS5 pro comes out, they won't be selling it through consumer channels ever.

 

[dxdt]

Not sure but everything now has SSD being soldered to the motherboard.

Most Windows notebooks are not soldered. The SSD are typically removal but may not be conveniently located even the ultraportable notebooks. Only Apple is fully going to soldered SSD.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Where's the "I'm too old for this shit" option, John!? At this point I just want release day to come (not that I'll have a unit...) so we can go back to somewhat "normal".

 

[Handy Fake]

Your point? Chief.

That you can be unhappy with the lack of coverage, unhappy with the statement explaining the lack of coverage, then unhappy with the coverage itself?
Hardly a zero sum situation. I could be hungry and then complain about a shit meal.

 

[DonJimbo]

Wow this new generation started so uninteresting and not compeling the consoles are powerful but the software is so unattractive thank you Sony and MS for that I'm disappointed

 

[Tmack]

There's an argument that having it soldered to the MB reduces latency. How true that is I don't know.

Cost reduction and faster manufacture process i would say.

That seems the philosofy which defines the ps5.

 

[Faithless83]

Dude, they do not have access to the device itself. What do you expect?

Sometimes I think sony fanboys expect to hear something like how perfect device and get aggressive if it wasn't said. I do feel like they cannot afford anything else aside PS5 so they have to be angry to justify their purchase. PlayStation really created a cult around itself.

Could you please explain how Sony being tight on information and how it's panning out for them relevant to the topic of the video itself?
It's called console warring here, but if DF does it, it's fine?

Mods would have shown Richard the door for a week at least.

 

[NoMoChokeSJ]

That you can be unhappy with the lack of coverage, unhappy with the statement explaining the lack of coverage, then unhappy with the coverage itself?
Hardly a zero sum situation. I could be hungry and then complain about a shit meal.

Or people could just bitch to bitch. The people claiming DF are salty because they haven't received a console, when nobody has are a good example of this. Anyways.. moving on

 

[mckmas8808]

Because traditionally drives are connected to the main board via an interface, and if you have a problem can easily replace it, where if it fails on the motherboard, the whole motherboard has to be replaced.

It's a PCI 4.0 Bus that it's on, and Sony could have slotted it into it's own drive bay, but putting it on the main board is cheaper.

Is it also faster if you put it directly on the motherboard?

 

[Handy Fake]

Or people could just bitch to bitch. The people claiming DF are salty because they haven't received a console, when nobody has are a good example of this. Anyways.. moving on

Well that too.

 

[JimboJones]

It was. At least in the accompanying article.
You’re saying that when he introduces compression he should not give the compressed number? And if the number goes to 10 or whatever it might be, he shouldn’t mention it? I think he should have. He’s a tech analyst. Even if he’s got his journalist hat on today, tell me everything you see so I can form my opinion. Isn’t that what we want from everyone who reports on anything? As for the rest of your post I’d rather not go there. My opinion is valid because he halved 3 important aspects. And to be clear, I never felt they needed to do the video. I had an issue with them calling it uninteresting. But, after a week, if you’re gonna do the video...do it up real nice. Half info, half specs, half assed.

He mentioned it's 5.5 before hardware decompression is factored in, that is more than enough relevent information for this particular video.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Apart from anything else it would require the user to completely teardown the console to do it! I think both will have server/enterprise grade NAND chips for reliability and we'll hardly ever hear about failures.

Agreed.

These will be far more reliable than mechanical. Even cheapo SSDs are more reliable on average than mechanical.

 

[papersleeves]

Just finished watching the video. I like how Richard compared the construction of the PS5 to the Series X, and how it could play favorably to the PS5. Great analysis all around. I didn't feel like he was lukewarm or anything. He genuinely feels anxious to get his hand on a unit soon

 

[DeepEnigma]

This this thread and the the reaction to the DF video is exactly what I predicted we'd see from a certain set of Sony fans in the previous thread bitching about DF. They should have just ignored it unless they had an actual PS5 to do their own teardown.

Digital Foundry: “PS5 teardown is uninteresting, until we get our own hands on"

PS5 teardown happened for some days already and DF did nothing to cover the Sony event. While they keep doing videos about old games nobody cares. When asked why the reply:

www.neogaf.com

Don't become the very thing you despise. It's unbecoming.

 

[chonga]

Poor John, I really feel sorry for these guys and I feel like there's a lot of childish hate for them especially on this forum.

If you publish videos where you nit pick over the ultra fine details of a game and go oh look this one is better than this one and blah blah blah you are fanning the flames of the console wars with the biggest pair of bellows going.

A clear case of you reap what you sow.

Not far off of how influencer models and wannabes cry about the pressure of having to live to a certain expectation, always showing the perfect side on their Instagram and stuff. Like you literally created that expectation with images of your fake life. Can't then cry about it.

 

[Agnostic2020]

Most have NOT learned that actually. It's a very hard thing to learn.



SOMEBODY please tell me this isn't true. If it is true..................*smfh at the video game's media*

Of course its true .all media outlets got ps4 and pro from 10 days to 7 days from launch (in that time frame)