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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Garani

Member
Nah pizza is marinara and mozzarella, lil bit of basil, grated parmigiano.
Maybe a nice spicy salami, like soppressata piccante, if you want a meat for a topping.

Pineapple on pizza is a hate crime.

So is this.

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I approve of De Luca's message!
 
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I don't really understand what they won?

They have just confirmed that AMD GPUs have infinity cache, which they do not have in SX.
That AMD GPUs have high frequencies that SX don't.
AMD desing have not made more than 10 CU per shader array a different SX shader array with 14/16
AMD has RT new hardware inside CUs.
And that the CU or DCU have variable clocks and SX dont.

Did they just tell you that the SX GPU is nothing like the design that AMD has and that in return they have VRS, Mesh Shaders that the opposite console will have the same with its name?

Something tells me that they have not understood what they have been taught. You have just been taught that the MS GPU lacks pretty much everything you have learned today.

Nor do I say that PS5 has it, but of course we already know that SX does not.
I think Microsoft's choices were influenced by cloud server and compatibility with other devices in their ecosystem. Being too exotic would hamper their play-everywhere goals.
 
Man, one statement about RDNA 2 and all the Xbox fans come to gloat

I mean, if Sony comes out and details their RDNA 2 customizations and they are incredibly well done and impressive....then yeah, Sony gloat-fest incoming. As someone who will pick up his XSX in less than two weeks...I’m still extremely interested in what Sony has cooked up for their own solution.
 

Zadom

Member
I mean, if Sony comes out and details their RDNA 2 customizations and they are incredibly well done and impressive....then yeah, Sony gloat-fest incoming. As someone who will pick up his XSX in less than two weeks...I’m still extremely interested in what Sony has cooked up for their own solution.
Yeah, I guess, but it wouldn’t be cool for PS fans who never post here, to only show up to gloat. Kind of petty.
 
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Nowcry

Member
I think Microsoft's choices were influenced by cloud server and compatibility with other devices in their ecosystem. Being too exotic would hamper their play-everywhere goals.
I know what you mean, but this is a PC GPU and what they seem to want is to look like a PC with all the backwards compatibility, and new areas like RT hardware or cache enhancements could have improved performance.

Rather I think there is a cost performance balance based on CU parallelization because it is what has been running on PC for years.

And for MS goal it is the right one, but it is not a goal that is really going to change the game. What sony seems to be looking for.
 
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Please, read back my earlier statement and just count all the "if"s. We know that XSX has been marketed as the most powerful, which on paper seems correct. But "if" the games stay as they have been show, or perform at parity, someone has to explay why a more powerful box is just as good as a less powerful one.

Is my statement more clear now?
I don't believe this is going to go anywhere so I bid you good day.
 
I know what you mean, but this is a PC GPU and what they seem to want is to look like a PC with all the backwards compatibility, and new areas like RT hardware or cache enhancements could have improved performance.

Rather I think there is a cost performance balance based on CU parallelization because it is what has been running on PC for years.

And for MS goal it is the right one, but it is not a goal that is really going to change the game. What sony seems to be looking for.
Agreed 👍
 
I don't believe this is going to go anywhere so I bid you good day.

My views on what he said are this.

Microsoft marketed the Series X as the world's most powerful console. At the moment I expect that to be true otherwise they wouldn't have marketed the system that way. If it doesn't happen then they deserve to explain why.

That's really it.

Same goes for Sony and their I/O. If the XSX I/O outperforms the PS5s then I expect an explanation on why.
 

kyliethicc

Member
My views on what he said are this.

Microsoft marketed the Series X as the world's most powerful console. At the moment I expect that to be true otherwise they wouldn't have marketed the system that way. If it doesn't happen then they deserve to explain why.

That's really it.

Same goes for Sony and their I/O. If the XSX I/O outperforms the PS5s then I expect an explanation on why.
All of Ubisoft's games are same res and FPS on PS5 and XSX.

So... I assume you are waiting for Phil to explain that?
 

geordiemp

Member
My views on what he said are this.

Microsoft marketed the Series X as the world's most powerful console. At the moment I expect that to be true otherwise they wouldn't have marketed the system that way. If it doesn't happen then they deserve to explain why.

That's really it.

Same goes for Sony and their I/O. If the XSX I/O outperforms the PS5s then I expect an explanation on why.

Even is XSX plays a game worse, it still has the most TF so it would stand up in court, they never said every game will run better.

Marketing will use whatever it can.

Remember power of the cloud last gen with crackdown and EESRAM benefits that got chucked in the bin ? Or Sony with Cell.

PR just say whatever they can get away with.
 
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Nowcry

Member
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I think this forum says many things.

The high frequency design can be found in PS5 APU

Holistic Design Optimization can be symmetric configuration with maximum 10 CU per Shader Array like PS5 i think

Performance By Infinity cache, I think Cerny has its own solution with dedicated hardware or has a kind of small infinity cache.

Managing the clocks by CU could be what Matt leaked on RT on PS5. It's quite possible that PS5 also has Ray Accelerator which closely resembles Cerny's description in his lecture.

I think that PS5 has a lot of things in common to be able to have that% of performance above current GPUs. Hopefully Sony wants to introduce the hotchip in a few days.
 
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Garani

Member
I don't believe this is going to go anywhere so I bid you good day.

I agree. But I don't understand what you are expecting from me: it's not like I am going to change my mind if you don't want to debate.

My views on what he said are this.

Microsoft marketed the Series X as the world's most powerful console. At the moment I expect that to be true otherwise they wouldn't have marketed the system that way. If it doesn't happen then they deserve to explain why.

That's really it.

Same goes for Sony and their I/O. If the XSX I/O outperforms the PS5s then I expect an explanation on why.

Thank you. It's exactly my point. And yes, it goes both ways.
 
My views on what he said are this.

Microsoft marketed the Series X as the world's most powerful console. At the moment I expect that to be true otherwise they wouldn't have marketed the system that way. If it doesn't happen then they deserve to explain why.
So if they don't believe it will happen why bother say it? These threads have way too many posts already, why fill out with what ifs you don't believe to happen?
All of Ubisoft's games are same res and FPS on PS5 and XSX.

So... I assume you are waiting for Phil to explain that?
Locked fps? Same settings? Load times?

Edit
Had a quote I must of fat fingered
 
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Allandor

Member
AMD-Radeon-RX-6000-Series-Graphics-Cards_RDNA-2-Big-Navi-GPU-Architecture_7-740x416.png


I think this forum says many things.

The high frequency design can be found in PS5 APU

Holistic Design Optimization can be symmetric configuration with maximum 10 CU per Shader Array like PS5 i think

Performance By Infinity cache, I think Cerny has its own solution with dedicated hardware or has a kind of small infinity cache.

Managing the clocks by CU could be what Matt leaked on RT on PS5. It's quite possible that PS5 also has Ray Accelerator which closely resembles Cerny's description in his lecture.

I think that PS5 has a lot of things in common to be able to have that% of performance above current GPUs. Hopefully Sony wants to introduce the hotchip in a few days.
forget infinity cache. Infinity cache on RX 6800 is really big (128MiB) and many performance advantages will just come through shear size of the cache. Even the much larger xbox soc has "just" 74 MiB (I think that was the number, but can be wrong but it was in the 70th). Yes the cache in the xbox soc is shared through all CUs (so more or less the same as infinity cache) but with 5 MiB it is much, much smaller. We don't know much about the PS5 Soc, but such high cache sizes aren't possible on this small chip. It will more or less be in the 4MiB region (according to CU count). But both are not the really big infinity cache solutions some folks here dream about.

On a large Chip like RX 6800 will have, 128MiB won't use to much Die area, but it will increase it for sure. SRAM is easy to fabricate and is also a good extra cooling area, because it doesn't get as hot as GPU-Logic area. So you can effectively can increase your cooling area with a large cache. At the prices of those GPUs the extra area won't be such a problem.
nvidia added other cores that help with specific operations. AMD integrated RT and ML into the GPU and added a large cache which helps with all tasks.
 

PaintTinJr

Member
No difference so far. All of Ubisofts games are same on both.

Only difference so far is DMC5 next gen edition has RT on PS5 day 1, while XSX gets RT later, and XSS has no RT at all.

powa
I know it probably means the same, but has Microsoft listed what they exactly mean by DirectX12 RT? I would hope they wouldn't, but is it possible that this doesn't entirely mean hardware RT in all situations - and is dependent on the console they are discussing?

You've given an example that RT isn't happening on the XsS. So in the case of the XsS if it is listed as RDNA2 DirectX12 RT capable, are we expecting it to do RT, or SSR when scaling down from the XsX version?

I know Microsoft will want to solidify the perception that non DirectX12 cards can't do RT, but as an old hand in PCs, adding the DirectX12 prefix makes think they are leaving wiggle room, so that if they want to market a game as having RT, but without the time to implement it, or unable to hit a resolution/frame-rate bullet point with the feature, then they'll just use SSR in place of hardware RT, and just use the DirectX12 RT descriptor instead.
 

Nowcry

Member
No, I am not saying that PS5 has such a large infionity cache, I am just saying that it has an infinity cache of your size, possibly 16MB / 32MB and connecting caches through L2 and L1 and L0 doesn't offer the benefits of infinity cache. It offers the benefits of the usual caches, which have always been able to communicate at least between l2 l1 and l0.

 
Ok, let's say that you are right and I am wrong. Let's see what happened with PS4 vs XBOne: PS4 got the lead in sales. MS tried to change direction with the XBoneX, which is superior to the PS4Pro. End result? Microsoft never recovered and Sony won hands down.

For this reason I tell you that it's meaningless the future performance: you have to bring home the core base now so that you can build on that. At the moment Microsoft doesn't have anything impressive to show, other than some marketing material.



1) R&C is launch window. Basically you'll see it soon enough.
2) XSS is still available right this moment for pre-order. And I assure you that we will see both consoles in shops during XMas time: no one wants to miss XMas sales.
3) About CoD: we do know how it will look like on PS5, we still have to see WG, AC and CoD running on XSX.

The core user base is made right now, and Sony has it in the bag at this point. Recovering from this position will be a difficult job for MS.

Doubt we will see any in shops due to COVID
Will most likely be in store pickup and curbside pickup for online orders
 
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Three Jackdaws

Unconfirmed Member
No, I am not saying that PS5 has such a large infionity cache, I am just saying that it has an infinity cache of your size, possibly 16MB / 32MB and connecting caches through L2 and L1 and L0 doesn't offer the benefits of infinity cache. It offers the benefits of the usual caches, which have always been able to communicate at least between l2 l1 and l0.


Also this
Paul from RedGamingTech

"There is one small little thing, I'm kinda hesitant to bring it up because I know people are going to get mad at me, but I'm going to mention it anyway, I have a sneaking suspicion that a variant of the Infinity Cache is in the PS5, now the reason I say that is because when I was asking my sources, a couple of them accurate, the same sources told me that the PS5 was running incredibly quiet, very cool and they gave me all the breakdown of the PS5 testing procedures from Sony thats turned out to be accurate, they told me that the cooling solution was very different, very unique and they gave me other insights and lo and behold we started to see patents for that.....but one hint they gave me was that cache coherency on the PS5 is incredibly important and this is one of the reasons we see cache scrubbers...when I asked my source why does it look there is some sort of stacked memory on the PS5, are we looking at 3D stacked memory? they told me and I quote "think PS Vita". So I don't know if that is the case that there some type of chunk of cache or if it some type of Infinity Cache, I am still pretty dam confident in my information that PS5 has custom RDNA 2 features, or more specifically it's built on RDNA 2 with custom features which are NOT seen on RDNA 2 silicon...we'll just have to wait and see."

Timestamped link

 

bitbydeath

Gold Member
No, I am not saying that PS5 has such a large infionity cache, I am just saying that it has an infinity cache of your size, possibly 16MB / 32MB and connecting caches through L2 and L1 and L0 doesn't offer the benefits of infinity cache. It offers the benefits of the usual caches, which have always been able to communicate at least between l2 l1 and l0.



I do wonder if the GPU cache scrubber is a variant of the infinity cache.

If the ideas are sufficiently specific to what we're trying to accomplish like the GPU cache scrubbers I was talking about then they end up being just for us.

If you see a similar discrete GPU available as a PC card at roughly the same time as we release our console that means our collaboration with AMD succeeded.

In producing technology useful in both worlds it doesn't mean that we as sony simply incorporated the pc part into our console.
 

Nowcry

Member
I do wonder if the GPU cache scrubber is a variant of the infinity cache.

Hopefully Sony show on hotchip

Setting up for yet another letdown. Not to far from DGPU in the brick at this point.


That much Cache would take up an insane amount of Die space, it makes no sense for a APU
Another disappointment? For me today there is only good news, all the hardware that RGT has said and that Mat filter has been confirmed, now it only remains for Sony to remove the hotchip to see how it is implemented.

Both RT hardware, as Infinity cache, as High clocks.

I think it has not failed in anything and of course everything described by hardware has similarities with PS5. We just don't know how.

Everything described by software is from MS.

Nothing new under the sun / moon / whatever.
 
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Loxus

Member
I've been busy lately, so I can't keep up with this thread and next gen news.
Microsoft is definitely using social media to take advantage of Sony and use PR in full.
How can Microsoft claim to have the only console that is full RDNA 2?
When in fact Sony stated to have the same features (using different names) and more.
A lot of people are sleeping on Road to PS5.

PS5 may very well have Infinity Cache, Mark Cerny just didn't call it that.
Sony says SSD and Microsoft says Velocity Architecture,
like wtf is wrong with Microsoft and these fancy names?
 
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Three Jackdaws

Unconfirmed Member
Setting up for yet another letdown. Not to far from DGPU in the brick at this point.


That much Cache would take up an insane amount of Die space, it makes no sense for a APU
Relax, I'm not emotionally invested in this stuff unlike others, I only share it because it's a speculation thread and I could care less which console has more "points"

As far as I'm concerned, not much has changed since even before the event with regards to what we know about each consoles feature set along with their customisations.
 
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Relax, I'm not emotionally invested in this stuff unlike others, I only share it because it's a speculation thread and I could care less which console has more "points"

As far as I'm concerned, not much has changed since even before the event with regards to what we know about each consoles feature set along with their customisations.

I'm confused about something.

What's the horrible news that came out of this conference?
 
Relax, I'm not emotionally invested in this stuff unlike others, I only share it because it's a speculation thread and I could care less which console has more "points"

As far as I'm concerned, not much has changed since even before the event with regards to what we know about each consoles feature set along with their customisations.
Also RGT has been right lately. He could be right about PS5 too, but as long as Sony doesn't say a thing... we just can go with the things that have been publicly said.
 
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Three Jackdaws

Unconfirmed Member
I'm confused about something.

What's the horrible news that came out of this conference?
I'm genuinely thinking about that right now, some people are coming on here pretending there was sort of big win for team Green and some major disappointment for Team Blue, I really don't see it honestly. Unless people had some wild expectations for todays event or something but who knows lol

Also RGT has been right lately. He could be right about PS5 too, but as long as Sony doesn't say a thing... we just can go with the things that have been publicly said.
Yes exactly, I consider RGT a very reliable source as many of you already know. If his information is correct then Sony won't say it flat out, it's never been their style, we'll likely hear it in some sort of interview with Mark Cerny or even developers but God knows when.

Even other information which he has leaked, like PS5's APU unique customisations and certain features which will influence AMD's Roadmap like RDNA 3, well we won't even find out till a year from know when RDNA 3 gets revealed.
 
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