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PS5 Die Shot has been revealed

No, you are wrong. PS5 is based on RDNA2, that's not under debate. What we are trying to understand is what makes a PS5 perform like an XSX.
Probably in part because of the wider V.S. narrower GPU design, less work is required to fill all the CUs with work.

That has to make at least a small difference in keeping all parts of the GPU busy at all times. But as the resolution gets higher the bottleneck moves to the GPU and the CPU can feed all CUs in time for the faster GPUs to make more a difference.

So these consoles perform better or worse than the other depending on the scenario and type of workload (as we have seen)... But they remain in the same ballpark.
 
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Fredrik

Member
That doesn't make up for all the other deficiencies though. I'm not saying it doesn't help but just that alone wouldn't make it on par with the other system. At least they what digital foundry said with their variable clocks video.
No offense but as far as I’m concerned everyone have a preference, and I’m not sure I would trust a prelaunch video from DF about if a higher clockspeed could give PS5 an advantage...

Personally I’m thinking if they’re both closer than we assumed, which it sounds like, no full RDNA 2 here etc, then the big differences are the number of CUs and the clockspeed. I don’t see why a higher clockspeed wouldn’t be beneficial, at least in these early games.

But then I’m thinking, it they’re close, why is XSX 0.4GHz slower? The cooling seems decent. Why not go higher?
 
Yep, but that's all old news now. I've long since accepted PS5 has capable RT hardware, and my twitter proves that. I was reading between the lines of how wishy, washy they appeared on RT compared to Xbox on RT and, I admit, I read far more into it than there truly was. I was way wrong. I don't have a problem admitting any of that.

Problem is both engineers from both sides said that their consoles have an hardware RT. From what i'm reading here and from your previous posts.... you didn't even had a small doubt about hardware RT in XSX nor questioned it. But regarding PS5 was BIIIG IF!!


Microsoft took longer to finalize their hardware design, plus they have a more unique memory setup compared to the PS5 which requires some special considerations when organizing data copies/accesses.

Longer? Few weeks longer, maybe a whole month? MS started to produce Xboxes in July, Sony in June.
Manufacturing dates said from members on some forums proves MS didn't wait so long.
Everything is so special about XSX.

I've said from the beginning, and I continue to believe, it isn't the PS5 performing like Xbox Series X because I really don't believe they are in the exact same league from a performance standpoint.

PS5 isn't the same league? LOL
You'll have a really rough gen ahead. For what it is worse, you'll continue to spread your nonsense on social media.
 
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N1tr0sOx1d3

Given another chance
A picture of my crotch is more interesting.
I’ll show you mine if you show me yours!?!?
jW6z0wk.jpg

There you go....your turn!
 
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No offense but as far as I’m concerned everyone have a preference, and I’m not sure I would trust a prelaunch video from DF about if a higher clockspeed could give PS5 an advantage...

Personally I’m thinking if they’re both closer than we assumed, which it sounds like, no full RDNA 2 here etc, then the big differences are the number of CUs and the clockspeed. I don’t see why a higher clockspeed wouldn’t be beneficial, at least in these early games.

But then I’m thinking, it they’re close, why is XSX 0.4GHz slower? The cooling seems decent. Why not go higher?

Sony had to use liquid metal and a massive heatsink to achieve those clocks. Microsoft on the other hand while they do have a good cooling solution they still have to deal with power consumption and the much higher heat produced by higher clocks.

If the clocks are not higher I don't think it's because they can make them higher. Either power consumption or heat is my guess.
 

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
Honestly, many questions ppl have are laid out in:

XSX Hotchips stream
Road to PS5 stream
AMD RDNA 1 and 2 info

Informed posts about either.

Bottom line, like many have stated even before the consoles launched, both companies had different design goals.
 
At this point it seems like it's running on magic. Loads of theories but no benchmarks to prove them.

No, it's not running on magic. We need to stop this now. There are a few very clear possibilities here and all of them are with info we've known for several months now:

[For PlayStation 5]

1: The PS5 GPU cache scrubbers are being leveraged​
2: The PS5 GPU's faster clock speed benefits more current-gen engines or engines affected by clock speeds more than wider GPU designs​
3: The PS5's I/O memory subsystem is more robust both on paper and in practice with keeping and feeding data to memory as needed​

[Against Series X]

1: There is a larger bandwidth penalty on the segmented fast/slow memory pools than anticipated (either due to design or due to software OS/kernel and/or GDK API settings that have to be optimized)​
2: The I/O memory subsystem is suboptimal either out of design or due to lack of feature availability (DirectStorage is not readily available for PC developers until quite later in 2021, so many 3P devs might not be leveraging that part of XvA. And if they aren't leveraging that, they also aren't leveraging SFS)​
3: The CPU is not fast enough to keep up with drawcalls for GPU while also needing to handle data transfer between the fast/slow memory pools and some overhead (1/10th of a core according to MS) for the XvA I/O memory subsystem when SMT is enabled (this can be "solved" by simply clocking the CPU higher, if the thermals allow for it, through a firmware patch)​
4: The GPU clock is 405 MHz slower than PS5's plus lacks hardware cache scrubbers, which can have a negative impact on game engine that are built with narrower GPU designs in mind and more reliant on faster GPU clocks (majority of current-gen game engines are this way)​

...if we start to see consistent performance in favor of Series X later in the year, then those advantages can simply be explained as:

[For Series X]

1: The system is able to maintain data transference between fast/slow memory pools optimally​
2: GPU-bound memory has a 112 GB/s bandwidth advantage over PS5's GDDR6 memory bandwidth​
3: The GPU is wider, so more work can be issued and processed simultaneously per issue compared to PS5​
4: The I/O memory subsystem has all components readily available and in use; even if I/O memory subsystem performance in​
isolation still favors PS5, the gulf could be at a point where the difference is not large enough to negatively impact the other​
aforementioned advantages (higher bandwidth in GPU-optimized pool, 100 MHz faster CPU clock, lowered overhead of hardware​
resources by system in general, etc.)​
Also worth adding that while Series X's audio might be somewhat less sophisticated than Tempest Engine, it also requires less memory
bandwidth most likely. Meaning less of a squeeze by the audio and that leaves even more for the GPU, under intense audio workloads. Of
course, all of these points are IF the performance metrics swing in favor for Microsoft longer-term; currently that is not the case.
 
I just confidently believe Series X is in a performance tier above PS5.
But it's pretty funny that right now you crawled out from somewhere and started talking about the power of Xbox series X. "In a performance tier above PS5"? What do you know about performance, buddy? Xbox has its only advantage in a thicker arithmetic part and can be in ray tracing (although this even more depends on the software part, since it is the just a tool as many others), but at the same time the whole GPU is slower. Of course, Xbox will have some of its advantages in some games, as always be. No one will deny this. But "performance tier above PS5"... It won't happen, bооoy. However, believe in what you want, you can't wash yourself anyway.
 
The unified cache stuff was always odd considering Sony's own diagram showing cache scrubbers showed a cache only attached to the GPU, not the CPU.

The Cerny talk was pretty damn detailed.. why everyone thinks they had major features not shown is beyond me lol

It's sad, but patents can only show possibilities. There's never guarantee that all or even any patents made during the development of a project will be used, because the implementation is not realistic withing the time frame or the benefits are too little to justify the work. A lot of things are not obvious from the outside, the removal of the FADD from the FPU is an example. In the end being there probably wouldn't make a difference, but not being there may make a difference giving a few more transistors for other things into Sony's budget.
Isn't funny? That the PS5 is performing so well that we thought there where some hidden tricks there? The unified cache is indeed a loss, would mean low latencies and this is something that matters will people asking for high fps games, but it's also not like the latencies are worse than they should because of this. A lot of work went to make the caches work better for all they told us, so the project is a success, right?

Now it's time to move on to discuss the SeX, that is the one true mystery.
 
Problem is both engineers from both sides said that their consoles have an hardware RT. From what i'm reading here and from your previous posts.... you didn't even had a small doubt about hardware RT in XSX nor questioned it. But regarding PS5 was BIIIG IF!!




Longer? Few weeks longer, maybe a whole month? MS started to produce Xboxes in July, Sony in June.
Manufacturing dates said from members on some forums proves MS didn't wait so long.
Everything is so special about XSX.



PS5 isn't the same league? LOL
You'll have a really rough gen ahead. For what it is worse, you'll continue to spread your nonsense on social media.

No, PS5 isn't in the same league performance wise, and I feel confident this will be proven. My take on RT has already been described to death, have fun with that. The fact you believe finalizing the hardware design happens right when mass production starts is enough reason for me to ignore you going forward.

Zzz Ok GIF by Jim Gaffigan
 
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ethomaz

Banned
No, PS5 isn't in the same league performance wise, and I feel confident this will be proven. My take on RT has already been described to death, have fun with that. The fact you believe finalizing the hardware design happens right when mass production starts is enough reason for me to ignore you going forward.

Zzz Ok GIF by Jim Gaffigan
Fans like you are one of the reasons Series X get laughed when performance is talked... the big backslash the "most powerful console ever created" received after launch.
 
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But it's pretty funny that right now you crawled out from somewhere and started talking about the power of Xbox series X. "In a performance tier above PS5"? What do you know about performance, buddy? Xbox has its only advantage in a thicker arithmetic part and can be in ray tracing (although this even more depends on the software part, since it is the just a tool as many others), but at the same time the whole GPU is slower. Of course, Xbox will have some of its advantages in some games, as always be. No one will deny this. But "performance tier above PS5"... It won't happen, bооoy. However, believe in what you want, you can't wash yourself anyway.

Crawled out of nowhere? I've been saying it from the start, and I continue to believe it with absolute certainty. Did you somehow think early games comparisons not properly taking full advantage of either piece of hardware had somehow changed my mind? I stand by this claim, and welcome it consistently being challenged as this gen matures and developers gain more experience with both boxes.
 

Kholinar

Banned
No, PS5 isn't in the same league performance wise, and I feel confident this will be proven. My take on RT has already been described to death, have fun with that. The fact you believe finalizing the hardware design happens right when mass production starts is enough reason for me to ignore you going forward.

Zzz Ok GIF by Jim Gaffigan
How big do you think the gulf is going to be if it warrants the Series X being an entire tier above the PS5?

Just wanna save your comment, that's all.
 
No, it's not running on magic. We need to stop this now. There are a few very clear possibilities here and all of them are with info we've known for several months now:

[For PlayStation 5]

1: The PS5 GPU cache scrubbers are being leveraged​
2: The PS5 GPU's faster clock speed benefits more current-gen engines or engines affected by clock speeds more than wider GPU designs​
3: The PS5's I/O memory subsystem is more robust both on paper and in practice with keeping and feeding data to memory as needed​

[Against Series X]

1: There is a larger bandwidth penalty on the segmented fast/slow memory pools than anticipated (either due to design or due to software OS/kernel and/or GDK API settings that have to be optimized)​
2: The I/O memory subsystem is suboptimal either out of design or due to lack of feature availability (DirectStorage is not readily available for PC developers until quite later in 2021, so many 3P devs might not be leveraging that part of XvA. And if they aren't leveraging that, they also aren't leveraging SFS)​
3: The CPU is not fast enough to keep up with drawcalls for GPU while also needing to handle data transfer between the fast/slow memory pools and some overhead (1/10th of a core according to MS) for the XvA I/O memory subsystem when SMT is enabled (this can be "solved" by simply clocking the CPU higher, if the thermals allow for it, through a firmware patch)​
4: The GPU clock is 405 MHz slower than PS5's plus lacks hardware cache scrubbers, which can have a negative impact on game engine that are built with narrower GPU designs in mind and more reliant on faster GPU clocks (majority of current-gen game engines are this way)​

...if we start to see consistent performance in favor of Series X later in the year, then those advantages can simply be explained as:

[For Series X]

1: The system is able to maintain data transference between fast/slow memory pools optimally​
2: GPU-bound memory has a 112 GB/s bandwidth advantage over PS5's GDDR6 memory bandwidth​
3: The GPU is wider, so more work can be issued and processed simultaneously per issue compared to PS5​
4: The I/O memory subsystem has all components readily available and in use; even if I/O memory subsystem performance in​
isolation still favors PS5, the gulf could be at a point where the difference is not large enough to negatively impact the other​
aforementioned advantages (higher bandwidth in GPU-optimized pool, 100 MHz faster CPU clock, lowered overhead of hardware​
resources by system in general, etc.)​
Also worth adding that while Series X's audio might be somewhat less sophisticated than Tempest Engine, it also requires less memory
bandwidth most likely. Meaning less of a squeeze by the audio and that leaves even more for the GPU, under intense audio workloads. Of
course, all of these points are IF the performance metrics swing in favor for Microsoft longer-term; currently that is not the case.

Star Trek Applause GIF
 

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
Probably in part because of the wider V.S. narrower GPU design, less work is required to fill all the CUs with work.

That has to make at least a small difference in keeping all parts of the GPU busy at all times. But as the resolution gets higher the bottleneck moves to the GPU and the CPU can feed all CUs in time for the faster GPUs to make more a difference.

So these consoles perform better or worse than the other depending on the scenario and type of workload (as we have seen)... But they remain in the same ballpark.
One thing we should remember is before RDNA 2 info was officially revealed, higher clocks were logically considered crazy, a dumb move.

I also remember being completely blind sided when RDNA 1 was first revealed. Many watching the stream were also surprised.

I think some are still stuck in that pre RDNA 1, RDNA 2 mindset.

At this moment in time, things should be clearer, even if not completely clear.
 
How big do you think the gulf is going to be if it warrants the Series X being an entire tier above the PS5?

Just wanna save your comment, that's all.

I'm okay with laying down a marker that is constantly thrown back at me. At the end of the day this isn't bloodsport if I'm wrong. It's fun. I feel confident in this, though.

I believe the range will be be RTX 2080/2080 Super for Series X vs 5700XT/2070 Super for PS5.
 
No, it's not running on magic. We need to stop this now. There are a few very clear possibilities here and all of them are with info we've known for several months now:

[For PlayStation 5]

1: The PS5 GPU cache scrubbers are being leveraged​
2: The PS5 GPU's faster clock speed benefits more current-gen engines or engines affected by clock speeds more than wider GPU designs​
3: The PS5's I/O memory subsystem is more robust both on paper and in practice with keeping and feeding data to memory as needed​

[Against Series X]

1: There is a larger bandwidth penalty on the segmented fast/slow memory pools than anticipated (either due to design or due to software OS/kernel and/or GDK API settings that have to be optimized)​
2: The I/O memory subsystem is suboptimal either out of design or due to lack of feature availability (DirectStorage is not readily available for PC developers until quite later in 2021, so many 3P devs might not be leveraging that part of XvA. And if they aren't leveraging that, they also aren't leveraging SFS)​
3: The CPU is not fast enough to keep up with drawcalls for GPU while also needing to handle data transfer between the fast/slow memory pools and some overhead (1/10th of a core according to MS) for the XvA I/O memory subsystem when SMT is enabled (this can be "solved" by simply clocking the CPU higher, if the thermals allow for it, through a firmware patch)​
4: The GPU clock is 405 MHz slower than PS5's plus lacks hardware cache scrubbers, which can have a negative impact on game engine that are built with narrower GPU designs in mind and more reliant on faster GPU clocks (majority of current-gen game engines are this way)​

...if we start to see consistent performance in favor of Series X later in the year, then those advantages can simply be explained as:

[For Series X]

1: The system is able to maintain data transference between fast/slow memory pools optimally​
2: GPU-bound memory has a 112 GB/s bandwidth advantage over PS5's GDDR6 memory bandwidth​
3: The GPU is wider, so more work can be issued and processed simultaneously per issue compared to PS5​
4: The I/O memory subsystem has all components readily available and in use; even if I/O memory subsystem performance in​
isolation still favors PS5, the gulf could be at a point where the difference is not large enough to negatively impact the other​
aforementioned advantages (higher bandwidth in GPU-optimized pool, 100 MHz faster CPU clock, lowered overhead of hardware​
resources by system in general, etc.)​
Also worth adding that while Series X's audio might be somewhat less sophisticated than Tempest Engine, it also requires less memory
bandwidth most likely. Meaning less of a squeeze by the audio and that leaves even more for the GPU, under intense audio workloads. Of
course, all of these points are IF the performance metrics swing in favor for Microsoft longer-term; currently that is not the case.

Well you did give me a better answer than Digital Foundry "I don't know" one.

It's still on the table whether or not there will be any big differences between the two in the future. The current results make it seem like they are practically on par with each other.
 

John Wick

Member
I've said from the beginning, and I continue to believe, it isn't the PS5 performing like Xbox Series X because I really don't believe they are in the exact same league from a performance standpoint. When things appear off (such as Series X having more trouble maintaining FPS at the same resolution and visual settings, or possibly worse and actually runs at a lower res) it's because Series X is just flat out underperforming its expected output, and that's before any more advanced capabilities are factored in.

Microsoft took longer to finalize their hardware design, plus they have a more unique memory setup compared to the PS5 which requires some special considerations when organizing data copies/accesses. Anything GPU critical must be inside the 10GB of GPU Optimal memory or else performance will be effected. Some devs will handle this better than others, but if they start to more directly take advantage of the available featureset of the Series X GPU, such as Sampler Feedback Streaming, I believe we will start to see a very different more consistent performance picture emerge.

Keep in mind I'm not calling the PS5 weak, it isn't weak, I just confidently believe Series X is in a performance tier above PS5.
It's got 18% more GPU power in certain tasks like compute and that's if everything is working at optimum. I think that will translate to about 10% in actual world scenarios maybe slightly more or slightly less.
You keep on harping on about how if and when MS starts utilising all the features of the SX as though the PS5 is gonna stay still that it's gonna vastly improve but that arguement can be made both ways. PS5 will also improve once the devs take advantage of it's feature set.
 
It's got 18% more GPU power in certain tasks like compute and that's if everything is working at optimum. I think that will translate to about 10% in actual world scenarios maybe slightly more or slightly less.
You keep on harping on about how if and when MS starts utilising all the features of the SX as though the PS5 is gonna stay still that it's gonna vastly improve but that arguement can be made both ways. PS5 will also improve once the devs take advantage of it's feature set.

True, PS5 will improve. Wouldn't dare suggest otherwise. I'm just saying that when both machines reach their maximum potential, Series X will still have that clear graphics performance edge.
 

John Wick

Member
Yep, but that's all old news now. I've long since accepted PS5 has capable RT hardware, and my twitter proves that. I was reading between the lines of how wishy, washy they appeared on RT compared to Xbox on RT and, I admit, I read far more into it than there truly was. I was way wrong. I don't have a problem admitting any of that.

If I'm to take a few licks here and there for disputing publicly confirmed information direct from the source, then others should have their fair share for believing entirely made up, speculative and outright false information that has never come directly from the source. I'm not willing to automatically dismiss that the PS5 may possess some tweaks or elements of a future RDNA architecture revision, I just challenge the so called youtube insiders that confidently state the PS5 has this or that, and everybody up and believes them. I also firmly believe there are things we aren't fully aware of regarding Series X, but my belief on that front continues to be that Microsoft has been an open book, and if there were another megaton feature hidden inside, we would potentially know about it already. I apply that same rule to Sony and PS5.
Now your being very reasonable and it's worth having a discussion. The only reason why people maybe think or expect that PS5 might have some or non secret features because Sony are quite secretive and don't reveal as much as MS. The GE might turn out to be a game changer? Or it might not.
 
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Lysandros

Member
It's got 18% more GPU power in certain tasks like compute and that's if everything is working at optimum. I think that will translate to about 10% in actual world scenarios maybe slightly more or slightly less.
You keep on harping on about how if and when MS starts utilising all the features of the SX as though the PS5 is gonna stay still that it's gonna vastly improve but that arguement can be made both ways. PS5 will also improve once the devs take advantage of it's feature set.
Are you expecting an average of 10% difference on compute tasks only or on GPU performance as a whole?
 
No, PS5 isn't in the same league performance wise, and I feel confident this will be proven.

Like i've said, you'll have a rough gen. No wonder why XSX is mocked. I'll bet you'll do an account suicide sooner or later if XSX doesn't prove if it is a, like you said : "league above" PS5.

My take on RT has already been described to death, have fun with that.

No need. I've already figure it out that you're messed up

The fact you believe finalizing the hardware design happens right when mass production starts is enough reason for me to ignore you going forward.

Of course not. But it is a very good indication that MS didn't waited that much longer as you think it is. In fact, they wanted to start to manufacture Xboxes during May last year, a month before Sony.
 
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John Wick

Member
True, PS5 will improve. Wouldn't dare suggest otherwise. I'm just saying that when both machines reach their maximum potential, Series X will still have that clear graphics performance edge.
I've never disputed that. Both PS5 and SX are based on the same CPU and GPU architecture and if everything else was equal then MS advantage would be clear. Its the custom silicon that clouds how much better SX will be in GPU. For example look at RTX 3090 and 3080. When tested with everything else being equal the 3080 is only 10-15% down on 3090 even though it's double the price and far more capable. Paper specs very rarely hold true especially when it comes just to tflops.
 

John Wick

Member
Are you expecting an average of 10% difference on compute tasks only or on GPU performance as a whole?
In the games that take advantage of SX GPU yes. But PS5 has its advantages in rasterisation and higher clocks for example. Some games will favour the wide and slow and other fast and narrow. But overall the SX should hold about 10% advantage when used fully
 

Loxus

Member
I've said from the beginning, and I continue to believe, it isn't the PS5 performing like Xbox Series X because I really don't believe they are in the exact same league from a performance standpoint. When things appear off (such as Series X having more trouble maintaining FPS at the same resolution and visual settings, or possibly worse and actually runs at a lower res) it's because Series X is just flat out underperforming its expected output, and that's before any more advanced capabilities are factored in.

Microsoft took longer to finalize their hardware design, plus they have a more unique memory setup compared to the PS5 which requires some special considerations when organizing data copies/accesses. Anything GPU critical must be inside the 10GB of GPU Optimal memory or else performance will be effected. Some devs will handle this better than others, but if they start to more directly take advantage of the available featureset of the Series X GPU, such as Sampler Feedback Streaming, I believe we will start to see a very different more consistent performance picture emerge.

Keep in mind I'm not calling the PS5 weak, it isn't weak, I just confidently believe Series X is in a performance tier above PS5.
Bruh, just stop.
You can clearly see from both die shots, the PS5 and XBSX are not the same.
Both designs are highly custom and should not be compared like you would compare desktop GPUs.

Teraflops may not play as much as a big deal you make it out to be.
The PS5 die shot alone should tell you that shit is mad engineered.

Just stop the console war for a moment and marvel at the engineering masterpieces that are the PS5 and XBSX.
 

MonarchJT

Banned
[ Legend, post: 262368425, member: 755986"]
I give you A for effort but an F for execution as I am simply making fun of the childish Sony bots. The joke is on you because I own both systems and adore both for different reasons. Try a lil harder next time little friend. GG. :)

MQKjpRn.jpg

[/QUOTE]
gg ))

ps. my god .that ps5 is fuckin enormous lol
 
Now your being being very reasonable and it's worth having a discussion. The only reason why people maybe think or expect that PS5 might have some or non secret features because Sony are quite secretive and don't reveal as much as MS. The GE might turn out to be a game changer? Or it might not.

The Geometry Engine is DEFINITELY a game changer for the PS5. The significance and potential is mind boggling with Sony's top first party studios. So I want to be careful to not be seen as downplaying the PS5. I know this thing is going to kick serious ass. The only reason why it might come off as if I am downplaying it at times is because I genuinely believe the Series X has a much higher ceiling, particularly if Microsoft actually makes good on their Machine Learning style up-sampling tech. Then there's SFS and Mesh Shaders. So Series X has it's own highly advanced Geometry Engine while also having possessing the additional compute capability to make the most of Mesh Shaders, as this capability scales quite well with more ALUs. I believe Mesh Shaders are one of the biggest reasons Microsoft made their GPU as big as they did.

Xxs1W7m.jpg




So again, the PS5 Geometry Engine is a game changer. Looking at what it's capable of there's no genuine reason it wouldn't be with the talent Sony has. I just don't feel it will change the performance/capability outcome between the two consoles once both hit full stride. Only time will tell of course. It's a game changer for game development and advancing videogames, as is Mesh Shaders on Series X. I just don't believe it's a game changer that changes the performance picture between the two machines, but we will see things we've never seen from big budget playable games before.
 

Seketh

Neo Member
In the games that take advantage of SX GPU yes. But PS5 has its advantages in rasterisation and higher clocks for example. Some games will favour the wide and slow and other fast and narrow. But overall the SX should hold about 10% advantage when used fully
Focusing on raw performance shouldn't be the point of this thread.

What is important is what can be expected to improve on each console, given the feature set. And development with ML on the Xbox will be far more interesting to see than Kraken + Oodle texture on the PS5.
 
At this moment in time, things should be clearer, even if not completely clear.
They should, but we still have mis information and MS is still pushing the same story they did last time (we will optimize X and you will see how we smoke the competition). This has been going on sine 2013 and people are still parotting these ideas like DX12 and the cloud would have delivered on the Xbone.

The worst is that they (as a group) seem so sure of their technical know how, you would bet that they're all graphics artists and chip engineers,if you had no grasp of the mumbo jumbo.
 

Lysandros

Member
In the games that take advantage of SX GPU yes. But PS5 has its advantages in rasterisation and higher clocks for example. Some games will favour the wide and slow and other fast and narrow. But overall the SX should hold about 10% advantage when used fully
Okay, thanks for the clarification. Our opinions differ slightly on that one. 👍
 

John Wick

Member
No, PS5 isn't in the same league performance wise, and I feel confident this will be proven. My take on RT has already been described to death, have fun with that. The fact you believe finalizing the hardware design happens right when mass production starts is enough reason for me to ignore you going forward.

Zzz Ok GIF by Jim Gaffigan
Even the 3090 isn't in a performance league above the 3080 and that's far more capable than your Xbox and a bigger gap between PS5 and SX. As most devs have said they are pretty close.
 

FlyyGOD

Member
Isn't RDNA 2 based off RNDA 1?
Which is why it's called RDNA 2
Only difference, is it has Ray Tracing and Infinity Cache.
No wonder you got banned.

And if that's the case, why doesn't XBSX has Infinity Cache?
Which is a RDNA 2 feature.

I think Cerny is right when he said the PS5 is based on RDNA 2.
You only need to keep what would benefit your console.
I thought infinity cache was an RDNA 3 feature if im not mistaken.
 

MonarchJT

Banned
Bruh, just stop.
You can clearly see from both die shots, the PS5 and XBSX are not the same.
Both designs are highly custom and should not be compared like you would compare desktop GPUs.

Teraflops may not play as much as a big deal you make it out to be.
The PS5 die shot alone should tell you that shit is mad engineered.

Just stop the console war for a moment and marvel at the engineering masterpieces that are the PS5 and XBSX.
there is nothing , like z e r o in the engineering of the ps5 that is making it special over the other consoles (and I'm pulling also the switch in this) the ps5 is a nice sony console of 10.2 tf and is special.becauee is the only console that can run sony exclusives ..and that's it . And that extensively given the perfomance/size it could be engineered much better ... given the competition performance / features / dimensions
do not mythologize something that has nothing mythical about it.
 
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Bruh, just stop.
You can clearly see from both die shots, the PS5 and XBSX are not the same.
Both designs are highly custom and should not be compared like you would compare desktop GPUs.

Teraflops may not play as much as a big deal you make it out to be.
The PS5 die shot alone should tell you that shit is mad engineered.

Just stop the console war for a moment and marvel at the engineering masterpieces that are the PS5 and XBSX.
Quit whining because I'm having a discussion. Who doubts that both consoles are heavily engineered beyond our basic understanding? Nobody doubts their custom nature to fit the particular needs of their respective client (Microsoft and Sony) What's impressive about the Xbox Series X is far from just the teraflops, just as there is more to PS5 than its teraflops. I'm excited about the features Series X has confirmed on top of the high compute performance. Just because we are having a discussion where I believe one may be better than the other doesn't have to mean it's automatically a war.

Put the knife down.
 

James Sawyer Ford

Gold Member
I've said from the beginning, and I continue to believe, it isn't the PS5 performing like Xbox Series X because I really don't believe they are in the exact same league from a performance standpoint. When things appear off (such as Series X having more trouble maintaining FPS at the same resolution and visual settings, or possibly worse and actually runs at a lower res) it's because Series X is just flat out underperforming its expected output, and that's before any more advanced capabilities are factored in.

Microsoft took longer to finalize their hardware design, plus they have a more unique memory setup compared to the PS5 which requires some special considerations when organizing data copies/accesses. Anything GPU critical must be inside the 10GB of GPU Optimal memory or else performance will be effected. Some devs will handle this better than others, but if they start to more directly take advantage of the available featureset of the Series X GPU, such as Sampler Feedback Streaming, I believe we will start to see a very different more consistent performance picture emerge.

Keep in mind I'm not calling the PS5 weak, it isn't weak, I just confidently believe Series X is in a performance tier above PS5.

lmao...welcome back

your delusions still haven’t gone away. “XSX” in a “performance tier” above PS5 yet overwhelmingly evidence points to that NOT being the case.

the situation doesn’t generally change over time either, if past gens are anything to go by. XSX is not some esoteric and complex hardware to develop for.

can’t believe you’re coming back get spouting the usual fanboy nonsense despite being proven wrong
 

MonarchJT

Banned
Isn't RDNA 2 based off RNDA 1?
Which is why it's called RDNA 2
Only difference, is it has Ray Tracing and Infinity Cache.
No wonder you got banned.

And if that's the case, why doesn't XBSX has Infinity Cache?
Which is a RDNA 2 feature.

I think Cerny is right when he said the PS5 is based on RDNA 2.
You only need to keep what would benefit your console.
there is no infinite cache ....my god....this are the bullshits inculcated by fud spreaded by that youtuber red gaming something
 

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
It's doing pretty good considering 💁
[ Legend, post: 262368425, member: 755986"]
I give you A for effort but an F for execution as I am simply making fun of the childish Sony bots. The joke is on you because I own both systems and adore both for different reasons. Try a lil harder next time little friend. GG. :)

MQKjpRn.jpg
gg ))

ps. my god .that ps5 is fuckin enormous lol
[/QUOTE]
Only Xbox powered on, seems like current trend : P
 
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