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[jroc74]

Pretty crazy that AMD today announced the 6700 XT cards will have game clocks at up to 2.4 GHz, so boost clocks up to like 2.6 GHz. And these GPUs are 40 CUs, with even over 2.3 GHz base clock. So this makes the PS5's 36 CUs at 2.23 GHz look perfectly reasonable for a console. Not "overclocked."

I have the Platinum trophy and loved it. Over 100 hours. Very cool game, nothing else is quite like it.

But ya, its not for everyone lol.

Yeah, this is what I was waiting for.


40 cu's, 2.3 Ghz. It was logical for some of us to think this was gonna be the case, just glad its out there now.

 

[Zheph]

Did you even cared to read my post?

I did my guy, I read all of your post with a burning flame in my heart, don't you even worry. I understand you finished it and I commend you on that.
Ignore my morning spill, never a good idea to answer a quote after you just woke up

 

[Lysandros]

Yeah, this is what I was waiting for.


40 cu's, 2.3 Ghz. It was logical for some of us to think this was gonna be the case, just glad its out there now.

Indeed, it's even more impressive to hit that frequency for PS5 since it's a APU with the added heat of the CPU and other components. Besides, Cerny made pretty clear in Road to PS5 that without their custom variable frequency feature they wouldn't be able to run it that high. Extensive cooling solution certainly contributes to it of course.

 

[Riky]

For the first time I spotted one of the consoles today but it was the Xbox s. Was tempted to grab it. What is the consensus on the S. A good buy for those on 1080p and want to experience gamepass? Not really sure when I jump on 4K myself.

Yes it's well worth the money, you get all the quality of life improvements like Quick Resume and doubling of framerates on some games and it looks great on a 1080p screen.

 

[sinnergy]

Yeah, this is what I was waiting for.


40 cu's, 2.3 Ghz. It was logical for some of us to think this was gonna be the case, just glad its out there now.

It’s right slotted behind the 6800 which has the same clocks as Series x, what does this mean?

 

[jroc74]

It’s right slotted behind the 6800 which has the same clocks as Series x, what does this mean?

Uh....because the higher frequency and the lower cu's?

Some legit argued against this. Granted it was because the 6700 wasnt revealed yet. But some made it seems like it wasnt gonna be possible.

Some ppl still wanna focus on the 5700XT as a desktop comparison, maybe now they can look at the 6700XT?

 

[FatKingBallman]

Pretty crazy that AMD today announced the 6700 XT cards will have game clocks at up to 2.4 GHz, so boost clocks up to like 2.6 GHz. And these GPUs are 40 CUs, with even over 2.3 GHz base clock. So this makes the PS5's 36 CUs at 2.23 GHz look perfectly reasonable for a console. Not "overclocked."

I have the Platinum trophy and loved it. Over 100 hours. Very cool game, nothing else is quite like it.

But ya, its not for everyone lol.

So, i've heard PS5 GPU is a equivalent to 5700 GPU.

 

[FrankWza]

For the first time I spotted one of the consoles today but it was the Xbox s. Was tempted to grab it. What is the consensus on the S. A good buy for those on 1080p and want to experience gamepass? Not really sure when I jump on 4K myself.

Should I buy a Xbox Series S?

Yeah, so I really need a console right now and I only have around $500. I can afford to buy the Xbox Series S and not the X, but I am trying to sell my iPad Air and Magic Keyboard so I can buy the X. Thing is, should I buy an S in the meantime even though I have a 4K TV? I know it’s not the best...

www.neogaf.com

This should give you a good idea. OP ended up with an x.

 

[jroc74]

So, i've heard PS5 GPU is a equivalent to 5700 GPU.

Exactly, lol

 

[LiquidRex]

https://www.laptopmag.com/amp/news/...ng-this-june-report?__twitter_impression=true interesting

 

[dcmk7]

You gonna dig out the quotes of people who like it too? You know, to try and at least convey the sense of impartiality?

XSS is a great machine for the price. If you’re not 4K, then it’s a good upgrade over any existing Xbox. My boy has one, and it impresses me every time I see it.

If your willing to splash the cash, and more importantly can find them anywhere (I hear Finland is good), then go for the XSX/PS5 for a more future proof machine.

Just wanting to show him that some people have suffered buyers remorse.

He is asking for opinions and advice after all.. and those quotes are, you know, opinions from people who have actually bought one.

Should he not be made aware of that?

 

[BigLee74]

Just wanting to show him that some people have suffered buyers remorse.

He is asking for opinions and advice after all.. and those quotes are, you know, opinions from people who have actually bought one.

Should he not be made aware of that?

By all means. I just wonder why, as a guy who obviously doesn’t own one, you felt the need to only show quotes from those with buyers remorse?

 

[dcmk7]

By all means. I just wonder why, as a guy who obviously doesn’t own one, you felt the need to only show quotes from those with buyers remorse?

Well partially because a user asked a similar question here very recently, and those were amongst the replies.

It would be the same with PS5, XSX, though admittedly. Not everyone is going to like the console, it's never going to be 100% in favour.

But if he wants to make an informed decision, he should at least know about the users who bought it and regretted it and that not everyone who bought one likes it.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

By all means. I just wonder why, as a guy who obviously doesn’t own one, you felt the need to only show quotes from those with buyers remorse?

Because others have already given more positive testimony.

It helps for buyers to have a range of perspectives.

When you buy something from Amazon, do you only look at the positive reviews? Of course not. Most of the time the detail on what people disliked about the product can be more informative towards your potential purchase.

Stop being so sensitive. Folks have every right to post whatever perspectives they want. They don't need you to police them.

 

[jroc74]

Well partially because a user asked a similar question here very recently, and those were amongst the replies.

It would be the same with PS5, XSX, though admittedly. Not everyone is going to like the console, it's never going to be 100% in favour.

But if he wants to make an informed decision, he should at least know about the users who bought it and regretted it and that not everyone who bought one likes it.

Because others have already given more positive testimony.

It helps for buyers to have a range of perspectives.

When you buy something from Amazon, do you only look at the positive reviews? Of course not. Most of the time the detail on what people disliked about the product can be more informative towards your potential purchase.

Stop being so sensitive. Folks have every right to post whatever perspectives they want. They don't need you to police them.

Agree with this.

I look for the negatives when trying to make an informed decision. Then decide how much the positives....and negatives ....will effect me.

 

[BigLee74]

Well partially because a user asked a similar question here very recently, and those were amongst the replies.

It would be the same with PS5, XSX, though admittedly. Not everyone is going to like the console, it's never going to be 100% in favour.

But if he wants to make an informed decision, he should at least know about the users who bought it and regretted it and that not everyone who bought one likes it.

So you selected a few choice negative replies to highlight, ignoring everything else? That was very noble of you.

Different title, same old thread. As transparent as it gets.

Emoji away my beloved Sony fans, emoji away . I’ll be fucking gutted if I don’t get a triggered from at least Bo, and CrispyFatRolls!

 

[dcmk7]

So you selected a few choice negative replies to highlight, ignoring everything else? That was very noble of you.

Different title, same old thread. As transparent as it gets.

Emoji away my beloved Sony fans, emoji away . I’ll be fucking gutted if I don’t get a triggered from at least Bo, and CrispyFatRolls!

Wow, so sensitive.

Of course there MUST be alternative motives here .

I bet you were happy as Larry when every response was positive for the XSS right? As soon as some people highlighted negative things to say, you couldn't handle it, why is that?

Don't quite understand the anger on display.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

So you selected a few choice negative replies to highlight, ignoring everything else? That was very noble of you.

Different title, same old thread. As transparent as it gets.

Emoji away my beloved Sony fans, emoji away . I’ll be fucking gutted if I don’t get a triggered from at least Bo, and CrispyFatRolls!

The only thing that's transparent here is the dude trying to cry fanboy and police the discussion because of how another poster answered a simple question.

If Zheph posted anything you disagreed with, you could have just engaged with the content of his post and shared your counter-points to the criticisms raised. That would have made you come off less like a fanboy. Instead you went straight to the ad hominem attack... it's pretty telling why.

 

[Lysandros]

So, i've heard PS5 GPU is a equivalent to 5700 GPU.

Yeah, i've heard the same from the Governor himself.

 

[SlimySnake]

​

War... War never changes...

I would love for DF to stop with this nonsense and actually dig a bit deeper into these issues. This pic doesnt list Control which also has framedrops below 30.

They reach out to devs all the time. Maybe try and find out why the xsx is dropping these frames despite performing better in photomode, despite there being DRS in place, and despite the fact that it as a tflops advantage over the PS5. I am sure devs know whats going on. A little behind the scenes off the record tidbit would go a long way explaining stuff like this.

Is the DRS in Outriders and Cyberpunk not aggressive enough? Does it have to go down to 1080p like AC Valhalla? If so, why? Why is a 12 tflops GPU is that able to consistently hit 55 fps in photomode with ray tracing on at 1440p is struggling to hit 60 fps in a non ray traced game at 1200p? I highly doubt that the devs dont know where the bottleneck is.

After control, im convinced the bottleneck isnt the GPU. The CPU is virtually identical and around 2% faster with fixed clocks so that cant be the issue either. So what gives? Its been 4 months and literally over a dozen AAA games with the same issues. Can we finally get some devs to talk about this off the record? What is DF doing?

 

[LiquidRex]

https://patentscope.wipo.int/search...21041182&tab=DRAWINGS&_cid=P22-KLV1GE-50613-1

 

[Interfectum]

I would love for DF to stop with this nonsense and actually dig a bit deeper into these issues. This pic doesnt list Control which also has framedrops below 30.

They reach out to devs all the time. Maybe try and find out why the xsx is dropping these frames despite performing better in photomode, despite there being DRS in place, and despite the fact that it as a tflops advantage over the PS5. I am sure devs know whats going on. A little behind the scenes off the record tidbit would go a long way explaining stuff like this.

Is the DRS in Outriders and Cyberpunk not aggressive enough? Does it have to go down to 1080p like AC Valhalla? If so, why? Why is a 12 tflops GPU is that able to consistently hit 55 fps in photomode with ray tracing on at 1440p is struggling to hit 60 fps in a non ray traced game at 1200p? I highly doubt that the devs dont know where the bottleneck is.

After control, im convinced the bottleneck isnt the GPU. The CPU is virtually identical and around 2% faster with fixed clocks so that cant be the issue either. So what gives? Its been 4 months and literally over a dozen AAA games with the same issues. Can we finally get some devs to talk about this off the record? What is DF doing?

I agree with this. It's going to be hard for DF and others to do because console warring is at it's peak thanks to barely any games to play but it is kinda crazy how man PS5 versions just work better. I'd like a more technical explanation other than just 'teh tools' and how PS5 is able to brute force that much better while also arguably being the weaker console.

 

[LiquidRex]

https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2021041538&_cid=P22-KLV1GE-50613-1 cool

 

[huraga]

You can't look at that list and make any inferences about SDK or tools though.

The kernel / SDK is usually more mature than the OS's UI layer.

I don´t think so. Usually the SDK has more features available than the Kernel can support, because is quite more complex for devs update the kernel than a SKD. Think that we are talking about a Windows Kernel, its very complex.

 

[Killer Sakoman]

I would love for DF to stop with this nonsense and actually dig a bit deeper into these issues. This pic doesnt list Control which also has framedrops below 30.

They reach out to devs all the time. Maybe try and find out why the xsx is dropping these frames despite performing better in photomode, despite there being DRS in place, and despite the fact that it as a tflops advantage over the PS5. I am sure devs know whats going on. A little behind the scenes off the record tidbit would go a long way explaining stuff like this.

Is the DRS in Outriders and Cyberpunk not aggressive enough? Does it have to go down to 1080p like AC Valhalla? If so, why? Why is a 12 tflops GPU is that able to consistently hit 55 fps in photomode with ray tracing on at 1440p is struggling to hit 60 fps in a non ray traced game at 1200p? I highly doubt that the devs dont know where the bottleneck is.

After control, im convinced the bottleneck isnt the GPU. The CPU is virtually identical and around 2% faster with fixed clocks so that cant be the issue either. So what gives? Its been 4 months and literally over a dozen AAA games with the same issues. Can we finally get some devs to talk about this off the record? What is DF doing?

PS5 has an advantage because of the variable frequency many people here were making fun of. The GPU and CPU can share that extra power they don't need at specifoc senario which resolve any bottleneck that causes framerate to drop. It's a hardware level optimization. No software solution could do anything to help.

 

[huraga]

I agree with this. It's going to be hard for DF and others to do because console warring is at it's peak thanks to barely any games to play but it is kinda crazy how man PS5 versions just work better. I'd like a more technical explanation other than just 'teh tools' and how PS5 is able to brute force that much better while also arguably being the weaker console.

It doesn´t mean that PS5 is better using brute force, it´s only a question of mhz. It´s quite more easier take advantage of mhz than CU´s or other features. Do you remember when we had CPU with 8 threads but in that moment videogames only took advantage of 2 or 4 threads. In that moment was faster for video games use 4 cores or threads for example 3ghz than 8 cores/threads at 2.7ghz. It´s more or less the same.

 

[LiquidRex]

Seems like desperation to me, I think it won't be around much longer.

 

[DarkMage619]

I agree with this. It's going to be hard for DF and others to do because console warring is at it's peak thanks to barely any games to play but it is kinda crazy how man PS5 versions just work better. I'd like a more technical explanation other than just 'teh tools' and how PS5 is able to brute force that much better while also arguably being the weaker console.

It could be as simple as the PS5 being the lead console for development and developers just doing quick ports to other platforms. Sony consoles tend to have the biggest install base so it makes sense to spend the most time on those versions of games. All of the framerate issues and glitches seem to be absent from MS published titles. Did Gears 5 have massive drops on the XSX or XSS? MS titles also tend to run at 1440p and have 120 fps modes on the XSS as well.

 

[DemonCleaner]

So, i've heard PS5 GPU is a equivalent to 5700 GPU.

yeah and we all know who you heard this from. and he's wrong.

he's pretty good when it comes to the software side, but not so much when it comes to hardware.

 

[assurdum]

It doesn´t mean that PS5 is better using brute force, it´s only a question of mhz. It´s quite more easier take advantage of mhz than CU´s or other features. Do you remember when we had CPU with 8 threads but in that moment videogames only took advantage of 2 or 4 threads. In that moment was faster for video games use 4 cores or threads for example 3ghz than 8 cores/threads at 2.7ghz. It´s more or less the same.

That's not true at all. Games runs better on ps5 not because it's faster (a total nonsense) but I most suspect probably because it hasn't the weird RAM/bandwidth configuration of series X. In any case games to have more CUs gives advantage too, it not needs particularly crazy recoding stuff to push them from what I heard.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

If I read another poster use the term "Brute Force" relating it to any console, I think I'm gonna suffer an aneurysm.

ALL consoles are inherently designed for maximising efficiency. There is no fucking brute force. Let it die.... please.

 

[LiquidRex]

EA learnt something...

 

[Lysandros]

That's not true at all. Games runs better on ps5 not because it's faster (a total nonsense) but I most suspect probably because it hasn't the weird RAM/bandwidth configuration of series X. In any case games to have more CUs gives advantage too, it not needs particularly crazy recoding stuff to push them from what I heard.

Why PS5 GPU's higher speed can't contribute to its overall better performance, why is this 'a total nonsense' exactly? Edit: Are you saying that rasterization, fill rate and cache speed/bandwidth are irrelevant to game performance?

 

[SlimySnake]

EA learnt something...

Not all online integration is bad. Death Stranding has fantastic asynchronous online. TBH, I wouldnt mind seeing what other players are up to if it makes open worlds more organic and dynamic. Souls games have shown that you can have both tight single player design and coop and PvP elements.

That said, this is probably for the best.

 

[LiquidRex]

 

[Vagos48]

I would love for DF to stop with this nonsense and actually dig a bit deeper into these issues. This pic doesnt list Control which also has framedrops below 30.

They reach out to devs all the time. Maybe try and find out why the xsx is dropping these frames despite performing better in photomode, despite there being DRS in place, and despite the fact that it as a tflops advantage over the PS5. I am sure devs know whats going on. A little behind the scenes off the record tidbit would go a long way explaining stuff like this.

Is the DRS in Outriders and Cyberpunk not aggressive enough? Does it have to go down to 1080p like AC Valhalla? If so, why? Why is a 12 tflops GPU is that able to consistently hit 55 fps in photomode with ray tracing on at 1440p is struggling to hit 60 fps in a non ray traced game at 1200p? I highly doubt that the devs dont know where the bottleneck is.

After control, im convinced the bottleneck isnt the GPU. The CPU is virtually identical and around 2% faster with fixed clocks so that cant be the issue either. So what gives? Its been 4 months and literally over a dozen AAA games with the same issues. Can we finally get some devs to talk about this off the record? What is DF doing?

Well CERNY said it . It's not so easy to keep the GPU fed in a wide design. Also, it's well know that the Microsoft OS layer sits "higher" from the hardware , than the Sony equivalent. It's all about efficiency.! Not power. I would think, that this performance gap can be closed, but not without some amount of time from the development teams.

 

[LiquidRex]

 

[Neo_game]

That's not true at all. Games runs better on ps5 not because it's faster (a total nonsense) but I most suspect probably because it hasn't the weird RAM/bandwidth configuration of series X. In any case games to have more CUs gives advantage too, it not needs particularly crazy recoding stuff to push them from what I heard.

Are these corss gen games using more than 10gb of RAM ?

It doesn´t mean that PS5 is better using brute force, it´s only a question of mhz. It´s quite more easier take advantage of mhz than CU´s or other features. Do you remember when we had CPU with 8 threads but in that moment videogames only took advantage of 2 or 4 threads. In that moment was faster for video games use 4 cores or threads for example 3ghz than 8 cores/threads at 2.7ghz. It´s more or less the same.

You are probably right but GPU unlike CPU are more into parallel processing. So having more cores, CU in GPU definitely helps. I think the reason is that some people had already made up their mind that there was going to be a big difference. Hitman3 is the biggest difference we will see IMO and even that is not representative because SX performance is somewhere between RX5700 and 5700XT. PS5 is doing worse than RX 5700 which is strange.

 

[assurdum]

Why PS5 GPU's higher speed can't contribute to its overall better performance, why is this 'a total nonsense' exactly? Edit: Are you saying that rasterization, fill rate and cache speed/bandwidth are irrelevant to game performance?

Probably in some way but not all the time it's the cause in this case. Considered the difference in the CUs is even higher ,in theory series X should be ahead more significantly and more often, when CUs are more important in the engine performance.

 

[Lysandros]

Yes please Matt, give us some more hints about the PS5 architecture.

 

[assurdum]

Are these corss gen games using more than 10gb of RAM ?


You are probably right but GPU unlike CPU are more into parallel processing. So having more cores, CU in GPU definitely helps. I think the reason is that some people had already made up their mind that there was going to be a big difference. Hitman3 is the biggest difference we will see IMO and even that is not representative because SX performance is somewhere between RX5700 and 5700XT. PS5 is doing worse than RX 5700 which is strange.

I don't understand why many people think it's non issue use the bandwidth configuration on series X until the infamous 10 GB limits. It's an unified hardware configuration splitted virtually. A lot of perfomance could be left on the table.

 

[Three Jackdaws]

Not really a fan of Madz because of his fanboy history (although he has cooled down in recent months) but he had LeviathanGamer2 on his podcast recently to talk about the next-gen consoles, it's worth the watch.

Why am I not surprised.

 

[Lysandros]

Because the difference in the CUs is even higher on series X so in theory should be ahead more significantly when CUs is more involved.

Yes this difference in CU number amounts to 18% higher max theoretical floating point operations per second and texel fill rate. In the same time (again) PS5's GPU has 22% higher rasterisation, culling (fixed function), pixel fill rate and cache bandwidth compared to XSX due to speed. And since these metrics are still relevant to game performance, i have very hard time seeing a 'total nonsense' there.

 

[assurdum]

Yes this difference in CU number amounts to 18% higher max theoretical floating point operations per second and texel fill rate. In the same time (again) PS5's GPU has 22% higher rasterisation, culling (fixed function), pixel fill rate and cache bandwidth compared to XSX due to speed. And since these metrics are still relevant to game performance, i have very hard time seeing a 'total nonsense' there.

It's a total nonsense think the perfomance issue on series X are just relative to the higher frequency on ps5....

 

[Lysandros]

It's a total nonsense think the perfomance issue on series X are just relative to the higher frequency on ps5....

Okay friend.

 

[kyliethicc]

Yeah, this is what I was waiting for.


40 cu's, 2.3 Ghz. It was logical for some of us to think this was gonna be the case, just glad its out there now.

So, i've heard PS5 GPU is a equivalent to 5700 GPU.

Well the PS5 will actually be even more similar to the upcoming AMD RX 6700 (non xt). That'll be AMD's 3060 Ti competitor.

That card will have the same 36 active CUs as PS5 with clocks probably ranging from like 2.1 to 2.4 GHz.

But, no L3 cache, different RAM bus setup, different type of boost clock, etc and so ultimately PS5 is a custom GPU.

 

[Three Jackdaws]

Not really a fan of Madz because of his fanboy history (although he has cooled down in recent months) but he had LeviathanGamer2 on his podcast recently to talk about the next-gen consoles, it's worth the watch.

LeviathanGamer2 on the difference between the consoles, nothing new but interesting nuggets especially when it comes to the latencies of the GPU and frame-time:

"PS4 Pro vs Xbox One x, One X wins in almost everything expect checkerboard rendering and 16 bit floating point operations...Then PS4 and Xbox One, Xbox one has slightly better CPU and GPU clocks but loses out on almost every other front to the PS4, so these previous consoles favoured one system which was more powerful in all areas, whereas the new current ones, the PS5 and Series X, they each have their strengths and weaknesses, the PS5 has advantages where the hardware units are identical to the Series X in number and then it comes down to clock speed, but then the Series X wins out on compute heavy workloads because of the 52 active CU's".

"So PS5 will be better at parts of the graphics pipeline which are clock speed and latency dependant, whereas the Series X will outperform in compute heavy workloads such as ray tracing, RT is very compute heavy...We've kinda been seeing this with 120 FPS, that's a very small frame time so the latency becomes more of an important factor when it comes to performance so that favours the PS5".

EDIT: On Primitive and Mesh Shaders and the Geometry Engine:

"So at its core, what the Geometry Engine is, they did an overhaul in AMD's Vega architecture, so previously your geometry pipeline had two possible ways of executing, you had to go through the dedicated fixed function hardware which there is one primitive unit per shader array which can do 1 unit per clock cycle or you can use a compute shader and pass it through all your compute units which can do way more calculations...but compute shaders have some drawbacks because they cannot utilise the caches of the graphics pipeline, so you stress your memory bandwidth and you need the CPU to manage it and the weak Jaguar cores would have to manage that, so there were explicit bottlenecks with it. Vega made a change to now allow you to issue these compute shaders instructions but from the graphics side of the pipeline so you get full access to the graphics cache and the code can directly talk to each other without relying on the CPU...so that's what Primitive and Mesh Shaders are about."

 

[DarkMage619]

It's a total nonsense think the perfomance issue on series X are just relative to the higher frequency on ps5....

What is total nonsense is that software issues on Xbox is attributed to hardware defects yet software issues on PS5 are attributed to defective developers. Glitches happen regardless of platform but there is a clear incentive to pay extra attention to the system that has historically sold the best. It's not rocket science.

 

[Elog]

Somewhere it is rather simple even though the underlying root cause might be technically complicated - and would be great from a development point of view to hear about. I must point out that many people pointed out this potential difference between the consoles before we had them in our hands.

If the XSX got all the 12 Tflops etc out on screen the frame drops would not happen. Way to often we miss the fineprint around those numbers - it is the theoretical max. That means that the PS5 - in those scenes - has a computational advantage or in other words the CUs of the XSX are not being fed with tasks to perform - or in other words the I/O system of the XSX is bottlenecking the GPU.

What is the root cause of that bottle-neck? I do not know - some developers must have identified where the challenge is - but so far two things are interesting. Firstly, that the PS5 is built bottom-up for highly efficient I/O from a design goal point of view and Sony seems to have succeeded in achieving that and secondly, how consistent the pattern has been since the launch regarding the XSX - the vast majority of games has these issues on the platform - a pattern has emerged.

 

[Esppiral]

I was playing Control and I got a system Pop up saying out of video memory and the game quitted to the dashboard