Not really.
If SIMD execution unit with this is 10% larger than one without it - there's your 'small area cost' right there.
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If SIMD execution unit with this is 10% larger than one without it - there's your 'small area cost' right there.
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Maybe you are right, I don't know, but the difference in performance listed there suggest that it's something powerful and not units inside the GPU. Many devices have some "AI engine" which is actually a real block on silicon, so I would expect that...
Again - no, that's what SIMD was always about, getting large increases from relatively small silicon investment (while piggy backing on existing compute infrastructure).
The SIMD extensions in RDNA2 allow to operate on 32-4bit operands for the same cost as 4-32bit ones. That's a 8x raw-compute increase, without accounting for other benefits of smaller-data workloads.
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dcmk7
Banned
Only read the first sentence boy, then realised you were intent on describing an alternate reality.We've had this discussion before but no one but overzealous Sony fans made claims about the XSS 'holding back gaming'. No dev worth his/her salt would make that claim without fully utilizing the features of the device first. Especially on a dev kit that was incomplete. You are well aware that the XSS has not had all its memory saving features used.
Looking at the list of 120 fps currently available for the PS5 it looks like there are already compromises being made on that platform. What ever steps are taken to make the feature work on the XSS it is currently available in much larger quantities than a console that is more expensive. This is a fact no matter how many memory issues are brought up. It is a budget console afterall. Perhaps it's 'punching above its weight'?
I can name a cheaper console that currently runs more games at 120fps and in some cases with games like, Biomutant, run at higher resolutions too. As many here say power on paper is meaningless when in execution that power isn't really usable. XSS, the 'worse' performing platform on the market, has features and performance that more expensive platforms lack. Not too shabby for the console that will end console gaming as we know it.
We have heard from developers that XSS specs will have an affect on game development, that's their prediction, and we know from some others developers that are predicting the memory constraints to hold back as the generation develops. Let's see how it develops.
Don't say you haven't heard these comments before and don't exist. That's silly even for you
But any gamer who wants an actual next generation experience, without compromising versions (like getting a weird 45fps on cross gen title and sometimes raytracing and sometimes not) then PS5DE is the entry point.
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Are we really trying to have a discussion about 120fps modes in games and how the amounts on PS5 vs Series consoles equal a compromise based on specs? When if you take off all the BC games on Series consoles that list turns into about 11 for PS5, 30-35 for Series consoles?We've had this discussion before but no one but overzealous Sony fans made claims about the XSS 'holding back gaming'. No dev worth his/her salt would make that claim without fully utilizing the features of the device first. Especially on a dev kit that was incomplete. You are well aware that the XSS has not had all its memory saving features used.
Looking at the list of 120 fps currently available for the PS5 it looks like there are already compromises being made on that platform. What ever steps are taken to make the feature work on the XSS it is currently available in much larger quantities than a console that is more expensive. This is a fact no matter how many memory issues are brought up. It is a budget console afterall. Perhaps it's 'punching above its weight'?
I can name a cheaper console that currently runs more games at 120fps and in some cases with games like, Biomutant, run at higher resolutions too. As many here say power on paper is meaningless when in execution that power isn't really usable. XSS, the 'worse' performing platform on the market, has features and performance that more expensive platforms lack. Not too shabby for the console that will end console gaming as we know it.
Maybe we should start to include the PSVR games that run in BC on PS5, lets see how the lists stacks up for 90fps and 120fps.
PSVR-Exclusive Blood & Truth Now Runs At 4K, 90FPS On PS5
The ever-evolving saga of “Is it worth getting a PS5 just for PSVR improvements?” just got a new wrinkle: PlayStation London Studios announced today in a Q&A blog post that its marquee PSVR-exclusive action romp, Blood & Truth, runs at 4K, 90FPS, natively on the PS5 itself. The support was
uploadvr.com
PSVR Shooter DWVR Receives An Update, Making It Playable On PS5, Boosting Frame Rate As Well - PlayStation Universe
The PSVR shooter DWVR has recieved an update, allowing the game to be played on PS5 and boosting the frame rate of the experience to 120 FPS.
www.psu.com
There were 120fps PSVR games on the PS4, Pro...But hey....going by this and the logic in that 120fps thread...I guess this means the PS4 and Pro were being held back by the One X.
MS goes above n beyond for BC games, this was already established months ago. How they handle BC games have nothing to do with current gen games.
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kyliethicc
Member
Don't even try to compare the power of the XSX to the PS5.
12TF but still no Knack? Useless.
12TF but still no Knack? Useless.
Neo Blaster
Member
Well, we know now every teaser trailer MS have shown so far are outsourced CGIs, don't we?
Neo Blaster
Member
Yes, we have, did you forget they've shown it last year?
MasterCornholio
Member
Spiderman is proof that the same experience is possible on the PS4. That's the whole point. With a HDD those transitions would be a lot longer and from what I've seen they happen often.
Yes it's possible but would you really want to play Ratchet with 30 second transitions instead of 2 second transitions?
My point isn't if the game is possible is if the same experience is possible.
MasterCornholio
Member
A Spider-man tech demo was crested to show how traversal speed was limited by I/O speed and that was something for developers to see how to use on top of initial loading times being smaller. It was them flexing their SSD.
You seem to be implying that for a launch game they should have made the character swing around at twice the mph just because well, you are being a bit disingenuous with MM’s scope and understating what adding more details to stream (draw distance was increased and the streets were more densely packed with additional detail and NPC’s) and doubling the framerate is further flexing of said SSD (small RAM increase, better detail, short loading times, RT, etc…). Not sure what you expected…
Now it seems like we are being a bit funny with placing the goalposts for Ratchet.
Not to mention Ratchet wasn't designed to work on HDDs while Spiderman was. Having a huge upgrade in I/O can allow developers to change a games design. Which is something Insomniac have mentioned in interviews.
DarkMage619
$MSFT
Yes an alternate reality where a $300 device offers features that more expensive consoles lack. For every developer that complained about the launch GDK for the Xbox Series consoles there were developers that didn't have any issues at all. SFS and VA will be able to alter the way the graphics pipeline is handled vs. the last generation. Once those features are used the launch complaints will be rendered moot. It's just your choice to cherry pick negative comments that fit your narrative. No one thought the XSS would do ANYTHING better than PS5 yet here were are with multiple new games doing surprising things. It shows people need to be careful with predictions. I'm willing to wait to see actual games developed with the new technology before making a judgment. Right now things look promising.Only read the first sentence boy, then realised you were intent on describing an alternate reality.
We have heard from developers that XSS specs will have an affect on game development, that's their prediction, and we know from some others developers that are predicting the memory constraints to hold back as the generation develops. Let's see how it develops.
Don't say you haven't heard these comments before and don't exist. That's silly even for you
But any gamer who wants an actual next generation experience, without compromising versions (like getting a weird 45fps on cross gen title and sometimes raytracing and sometimes not) then PS5DE is the entry point.
The PS5DE is not offering a better entry point when there are games on that platform than run worse than an even cheaper console. Luckily for Sony they don't have to offer the best value because they have the bigger name so it's MS that has more to prove. Still if India is any example MS will be able to restore their reputation for people who aren't emotionally opposed to their system.
You are doing the same thing I mentioned earlier. If you want to make a condition that makes PS5 look better why not just pretend the Xbox doesn't exist? That way no matter what PS5 wins! Even with your carve outs the Xbox still has more higher fps titles. MS has gone above and beyond to make games run better on the Xbox. They have enabled features that in some cases don't require the development of an exclusive patch for their systems. I have never seen that before on consoles. It's amazing to see how so many are quick to hand wave it away. I wonder if it was the PS5 who had the better numbers would it be just as unimpressive.
There is no need to carve out exceptions especially if those exceptions are meaningless to customers and in some cases developers. THQ was able to get a new title out in Biomutant for the X1 and were able to get multiple versions of that game without the work making separate versions like they'll have to with PS5. I wonder how those devs who preferred PS5 development take these recent events.
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TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Was there some recent news I missed?
..........You say this.....basing it off a list that literally left off any PSVR games ran in BC on PS5.....
What I have also seen hand waved away is early analysis results for next gen versions of cross gen games. This didnt happen the previous 2 generations.
Yet here we are.
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azertydu91
Hard to Kill
Yep but the ps5 doesn't have a new Knack though ... sadly.
Neo Blaster
Member
These are links for SoD3 and Fable trailers, made by Blur Studio.
Fable is back
The legendary franchise is returning, and at the Xbox Games Showcase, Blur's teaser for Fable 4 got the and finally slot in the lineup of title announcements. (video:https://vimeo.com/442447160 …
www.blur.com
State Of Decay 3 | Blur Studio |
Saying all trailers are outsourced is a hyperbole, I know, but considering these two cases, I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case for most of them.
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MasterCornholio
Member
These are links for SoD3 and Fable trailers, made by Blur Studio.
Fable is back
The legendary franchise is returning, and at the Xbox Games Showcase, Blur's teaser for Fable 4 got the and finally slot in the lineup of title announcements. (video:https://vimeo.com/442447160 …State Of Decay 3 | Blur Studio |
www.blur.com
I really don't like when any company does this kind of stuff. I much prefer realtime cinematics or actual gameplay demos. At least with those we have an idea of that the games will look like.
Great Hair
Banned
There's literally a thread about it for Sniper Contracts 2 on the front page.There appears to be talk on games been delayed due to PS5 technical difficulties... Has anyone heard of this? Is it just Bollocks?
Imtjnotu
Member
boy are you late lol
3liteDragon
Member
PlayStation 5 Hits Game Data Compression Ratios the Xbox Doesn't Touch - ExtremeTech
Sony's PlayStation 5 offers much smaller downloads for some games compared with the Xbox Series S|X. We dive into the compression technology behind the company's achievements.
www.extremetech.com
MasterCornholio
Member
There appears to be talk on games been delayed due to PS5 technical difficulties... Has anyone heard of this? Is it just Bollocks?
Just find it strange that this only came up recently with the system on the market for a while. Maybe there was some weird update to the SDK that messed things up?
Neo Blaster
Member
Where did that come from? Contradicts every single bit of info we've seen so far.There appears to be talk on games been delayed due to PS5 technical difficulties... Has anyone heard of this? Is it just Bollocks?
So far it seems to be 2 games with issues? I havent dug deeper into it and stayed out of the threads for obvious reasons....
Biomutant is one, Sniper Contracts 2 is another. I dont think both situations are similar but I saw the words tech difficulties in thread titles for both games.
Biomutant isnt delayed, but it has some kind of issue on PS5.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
they look realtime to me. the only hesitation is the fact that if they had this running in realtime last year, why wait a full year to show some actual gameplay? sure if they are that far along with their engine then gameplay shouldve been right around the corner.That is annoying, that was one of my favourite shots through out the trailer as well.
I'm extremely curious to see how this game looks on the PS5 hardware, if it looks anything like these shots then we're in for a treat even though it's a cross-gen title. The additional optimisations especially around the load times, haptics and 3D audios will be a cherry on top.
Although if check the HFW page on the Playstation website, there are several gorgeous shots which were "captured on the PS5" such as these.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
could be a recent firmware issue. returnal devs also blamed some of their recent issues on the PS5 OS. of course it didnt affect re8 so who knows whats going on there.
Mr Moose
Member
PlayStation 5 Hits Game Data Compression Ratios the Xbox Doesn't Touch - ExtremeTech
Sony's PlayStation 5 offers much smaller downloads for some games compared with the Xbox Series S|X. We dive into the compression technology behind the company's achievements.
What? There is no PS5 version.
Oh, it was Tom, who could've guessed.
I agree, I had no save issues until recently. My Miles cloud save got deleted or corrupted somehow. And yet my Returnal save is fine.
Mr Moose
Member
Biomutant is BC, the other I don't think is.
Biomutant is using the PS4 Pro settings, that's the "issue".
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squarealex
Member
Not gonna lie... Mass Effect on PS4/PS5 is badly optimized...
Like a curse for this IP on PlayStation.
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Zadom
Member
When Riky said that the PS5 would struggle to keep up with the Series S, were you his source?
DarkMage619
$MSFT
PSVR is an accessory right? You want to add in games for PS5 based on how they run on the PSVR, something MOST PlayStation gamers don't have? Sure then. I assume if you add in those PSVR titles we have reached parity with regards to 120fps titles on Xbox and PlayStation correct?
With regards to early results for cross gen titles, I suppose you missed the outright celebration when Dirt 5 and Assassins Creed came out and those games performed better on PS5. I remember memes and joyous outbursts. If you want to call that hand waves you weren't paying attention. It's what birthed the whole 'tools' meme. Shocked that you didn't see any of that.
This is what I was curious about. The Biomutant devs didn't say the PS4 version of the game was working as intended on PS5. They said technical issues. They also mentioned they disabled the 4K mode. I was unaware you could upgrade the resolution of PS4 titles running on PS5. It would be quite interesting if PS5 was capable of upgrading titles like you can on Xbox. I bet at the very moment it's confirmed it will become an impressive feature.
bitbydeath
Gold Member
Interesting, hadn’t seen that before.
Wasn’t some of those Spider-Man, Ratchet and GT7 scenes in that trailer gameplay?
MasterCornholio
Member
I don't think the console is weaker than the XSS though. It's probably some sort of technical issues with trying to upgrade the PS4 version for the PS5. Even Sonys 1st parties are only providing framerate boosts with their games. I haven't really seen any that provide resolution boosts to BC titles on the PS5.
When Riky said that the PS5 would struggle to keep up with the Series S, were you his source?
Can we stop saying the PS5 is weaker than the XSS?
It's getting really annoying at this point.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
the Avowed, Fable, SoD3 and perhaps even Perfect Dark all looked CG to me.These are links for SoD3 and Fable trailers, made by Blur Studio.
Fable is back
The legendary franchise is returning, and at the Xbox Games Showcase, Blur's teaser for Fable 4 got the and finally slot in the lineup of title announcements. (video:https://vimeo.com/442447160 …State Of Decay 3 | Blur Studio |
Saying all trailers are outsourced is a hyperbole, I know, but considering these two cases, I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case for most of them.
Hellblade and Halo slipstream demos were both game engine demos. Anything thats usually labeled game engine or in-engine is typically pre-rendered. otherwise they would call it realtime. but it's not CG.
343 called it a game engine demo in the trailer.
Phil introduced hellblade as an inengine trailer.
I would say they came pretty close to matching the game engine demo footage with the 2020 gameplay reveal.
Game Engine - 2018
Gameplay - 2020
However, Horizon still looks a gen ahead which is weird because its also cross gen. no idea whats going on with horizon. maybe its being developed on ps5 first then downported to ps4 because i just dont see how they get this running on a ps4. unless this is also a pre-rendered game engine demo. if thats the case they are going to receive a huge backlash when people see the downgrade.
MasterCornholio
Member
the Avowed, Fable, SoD3 and perhaps even Perfect Dark all looked CG to me.
Hellblade and Halo slipstream demos were both game engine demos. Anything thats usually labeled game engine or in-engine is typically pre-rendered. otherwise they would call it realtime. but it's not CG.
343 called it a game engine demo in the trailer.
Phil introduced hellblade as an inengine trailer.
I would say they came pretty close to matching the game engine demo footage with the 2020 gameplay reveal.
Game Engine - 2018
Gameplay - 2020
However, Horizon still looks a gen ahead which is weird because its also cross gen. no idea whats going on with horizon. maybe its being developed on ps5 first then downported to ps4 because i just dont see how they get this running on a ps4. unless this is also a pre-rendered game engine demo. if thats the case they are going to receive a huge backlash when people see the downgrade.
I wouldn't compare the technical prowess of Guerilla games with 343. It's not surprising if HFW ends up looking better than a 343 game.
Edit: Maybe in wrong
Riky
but I would appreciate a rebuttal from you if you don't agree. Instead of a dumb emoji.
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the Avowed, Fable, SoD3 and perhaps even Perfect Dark all looked CG to me.
Hellblade and Halo slipstream demos were both game engine demos. Anything thats usually labeled game engine or in-engine is typically pre-rendered. otherwise they would call it realtime. but it's not CG.
343 called it a game engine demo in the trailer.
Phil introduced hellblade as an inengine trailer.
I would say they came pretty close to matching the game engine demo footage with the 2020 gameplay reveal.
Game Engine - 2018
Gameplay - 2020
However, Horizon still looks a gen ahead which is weird because its also cross gen. no idea whats going on with horizon. maybe its being developed on ps5 first then downported to ps4 because i just dont see how they get this running on a ps4. unless this is also a pre-rendered game engine demo. if thats the case they are going to receive a huge backlash when people see the downgrade.
Only thing that gives me hope is Miles being cross gen and no one knew until Sony said it. Thats one reason if God of War is cross gen I expect a good ass looking game.
kyliethicc
Member
Here’s why PS4 games now feel better with the PS5’s DualSense controller
It smoothed out PS4 haptics on the DualSense
www.polygon.com
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
But thats not what I am doing. I am trying to compare game engine footage to gameplay footage and trying to figure out if Horizon is next gen or not.
Halo is a 60 fps game while Horizon is just aiming for 30 fps so that could be the part of the reason, but again assuming both are pre-rendered in-engine, the gap is still way too wide.
And 343i is a great technical studio. Halo 4 was easily the best looking game on the 360 on par with the best ps3 exclusives. they got dealt a bad hand with the weaksauce that was the 1.3 tflops xbox one especially since they decided to make it 60 fps. there is not a single 60 fps first party action game on the PS4 so I am not going to judge Halo 5's mediocre graphics too much. it's basically a game designed on a 650 gflops GPU if you think about it. the rest of the GPU was spent trying to 2x more frames per second instead of making it look prettier.
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They can, like even Falcom somehow updated PS5 version of YS IX from 1080p on Pro to 4k(maybe it's not native 4k i didn't pixelcount it, but it's a big upgrade in overall sharpness). Limitations should be on a more low level than just inability to change basic settings like resolution.
Let me get this straight, new bc titles on Xbox series consoles perform better on Xbox than PlayStation, (which we’ve known for ages with how the Xbox sdk works compared to the ps5 sdks for bc titles), in titles like biomutant is more impressive than actual native ps5 titles such as resident evil 8, crash, control, dirt 5, ass creed Valhalla, etc all perform significantly better on ps5 than the series s and more than half that list performs better than series x too yet older bc titles is somehow the series s is more impressive than what the ps5 is doing?
You do realise absolutely nothing Xbox has even shown running on the series hardware has come close to what demon souls remake is doing? (rachet & clank is just unfair and overkill tbh). Better 3d audio then returnal? Games which are still barely scratching the surface of what the ps5 is capable off btw before you spout the some rdna 2.0 techno babble not being used.
Btw PS4 games are capable of resolution boosts on ps5, plenty of examples. It’s just the PS4 sdk is capped at 60fps unlike the Xbox, as Xbox one x is capable of 120fps, so good foresight by Xbox but it was obvious would have better bc like they did last gen & the game one x is quite abit more powerful than the PS4 pro too.
Can you please explain why cod, crash, dirt 5, dmcv, etc all perform better at 120fps on ps5 than Xbox series consoles? (Native ps5 titles not bc titles)?
Can you please list me actual games on the series x/s which are more impressive than the best on the ps5?
Is velocity architecture capable of out doing the ps5 I/o too, if so please list me the games or showcases that demonstrate that?
You don’t know if horizon runs at 60fps on ps5, but I’m willing to bet it has a dynamic 4k 60fps performance mode like all ps5 first party titles currently have.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
It's native 4k 30 fps so 4kcb or 1440p 60 fps is a possibility. But the halo slipspace engine demo was native 4k 60 fps so again that could be part of the disparity in visuals.
Of course the gameplay was nowhere close to that native resolution but we haven't seen gameplay for horizon either.
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dcmk7
Banned
4a games used the GDK. They still made a negative prediction.
What feature does PS5 lack compared to XSS? Whatever it is, are you saying the PS5 is technically incapable of it? XSS cant do many things better than X1X let alone PS5DE. Let's not get silly here
Any owners of a X1X thinking they are 'upgrading' to the XSS, will lose the 4k resolution feature, we all know that for sure.
Why is it when you're faced with comments you don't like, you ignorantly blame the developers even though they know far, far, far more than you? Makes no sense.
I really think you should stop blaming them, it's a terrible look for you. Do you really believe that 4A games are flat out lying when they made their prediction?? You don't think that they are experts in their field and actually you know better than them.. because.. SFS? If it's so easy you really should be running a gaming studio.
They know all about the technologies available to them and they still made the prediction.
What actually makes you not buy into their claim? Why are they wrong.
Riky
$MSFT
The Xbox One X was made for 4k resolution the Series S was not, however on Series S you get framerates up to 120fps, not possible on One X.
If you play the likes of Mad Max and Far Cry 4 you get twice the framerate on Series S over One X so when you add that to the loading times, Quick Resume, Auto HDR and 16x AF the Series S is a decent upgrade for less money than a One X.
If you play the likes of Mad Max and Far Cry 4 you get twice the framerate on Series S over One X so when you add that to the loading times, Quick Resume, Auto HDR and 16x AF the Series S is a decent upgrade for less money than a One X.
dcmk7
Banned
If you have a 4k TV that doesn't sound a decent upgrade.
The console is outputting 900p on some games (even without raytracing).
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You require an accessory for 120fps on XSS/XSX, too: a TV/Monitor which supports them. Something MOST Xbox gamers don't have, even less probable people on a "budget" (you know, the people you say are the main target audience of the XSS...).
Isn't it funny putting some conditionals when they support your argument?
MasterCornholio
Member
Really good answer and I appreciate it. The Infinite demo really threw me off but with the delay it's possible that they can make some massive improvements. I guess it's better to wait and judge the game once we get more footage.
As for HFW I guess we have to wait and see if they were trying to pull a fast one on us. You're right that we haven't seen any gameplay yet so that trailer isn't a good indication of what we will get. I'm confident that the game will look good due to how nice the first one looked.
kyliethicc
Member
Dirt 5 on Sbox is 576p @ 120 Hz...basically standard definition. Like a PS2.
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