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Good Gaming TV?
- Thread starter Karmic Raze
- Start date
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
This. As good as their OLEDs are, their non-OLEDS are not very good.
If you're dead set against OLED, I'd reluctantly recommend the Sony X90J, since it supports HDMI 2.1, but does not have VRR support yet and I am hesitant to recommend something that is waiting for one of it's most important features to gamers via firmware.
Whitecrow
Banned
LED PC monitors have less input lag that TVs. That's why I recommend monitors for competitive gaming.
Anyways, I didnt explain myself well, I meant that while OLED have low input lag, for competitives, LED alternatives are better.
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buenoblue
Member
I'd be careful with an oled for gaming. I had the original 1080p Oled and after 3 or so years I noticed burn in from FIFA. Also my friend has a 2017 oled with slight burn in from rocket league. Neither was super noticable but on bright colours you can definitely see it. Just a consideration if you play alot of the same game. I now have Samsung and I really like the pop it gives, especially in my bright dual windowed living room. Blacks are great unless completely dark room, even then they are still good.
Also someone at work had an oled and the kids burnt in a tv logo so if you have young kids that's a consideration.
If you upgrade tv every 2-3 years then I think oled is great, the pq and hdmi 2.1 are unconpareable. But if you want the tv to last 5-8 years a fald LCD might be better suited.
Also someone at work had an oled and the kids burnt in a tv logo so if you have young kids that's a consideration.
If you upgrade tv every 2-3 years then I think oled is great, the pq and hdmi 2.1 are unconpareable. But if you want the tv to last 5-8 years a fald LCD might be better suited.
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Yea I like the pop the Samsung can give aswell. Can only speak from experience and I've had alot of long gaming sessions with the same game for weeks sometimes and some watching TV at night and I've not had a problem but obviously it can be different for some. The Samsung game mode HDR isn't as bright as HDR would be usually and I think this years they have ips screens and even no local dimming in more mid range models.
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
That Hisense is nice. I got a Samsung because there are two things it provides that all the others don't. Low latency motion interpolation for gaming. That shines for 30fps games especially Switch games like Zelda and Xenoblade. The other is Samsung is the only TV that supports 4K 120hz VRR on HDMI 2.0. This was most important because if you don't have a new Nvidia 30 Series GPU or AMD 6000 series with HDMI 2.1 then you cant get the most out of any other 4K 120hz TV you buy, not having access 4K 120 while PC gaming.
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Excess
Member
I understand that everyone gets all hung up on the 1000+ nits peak brightness on LED, but HDR is much more about contrast, and because OLED has pure blacks, the perceived difference between specular highlight and shadow detail is incomparable. The best example of this is a starry night scene. On OLED, you can have a single pixel at 750 nits that is visible. On LED, you won't even see it because of the threshold needed to illuminate the pixel at such a high brightness without causing a complete bleed and wash out of the surrounding pixels.
Bojanglez
The Amiga Brotherhood
Do OLEDs still have a problem with 'crushed blacks' ? Or is that not an issue nowadays?
Ulysses 31
Member
Depends on the picture prosessor of the manufacturer. The more expensive ones should be accurate.
OLEDs with their perfect blacks can still have black crush as well as problems with near blacks.
He left out the lower color volumes that OLEDs have compared to QLEDs which negatively affects HDR.
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Excess
Member
Is there something specific you're referring to? Because as long as the TV is properly calibrated, shadow detail should be flawless on OLED.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
not sure about cx but c1 got below 10ms input lag in game mode
Ulysses 31
Member
Watch some recent OLED reviews/comparisons from HDTVtest and he will mention loss of shadow details/black crush.
kyliethicc
Member
For console gaming, VRR is an overrated feature that's not ready yet for TVs. Even on some new high end TVs, like the Samsung Q90T, using VRR fucks up the gamma curve and ruins the accuracy of the image.
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
I killed my LG C9 in under two years.
Ulysses 31
Member
How?
Excess
Member
While this is true, light differences are more perceivable to the human eye than color. This is why chroma subsampling, and not Luma subsampling, exists to help reduce bandwidth. Color is much more influenced by light.
Do you have the specific link? I don't watch every video he makes.
Yea some games can be a pain to get right for the brightness as they can appear very dark.
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
How?
Heavy usage I guess. It died in less than two years buying it from Costco. I opted for the Samsung QN90A as the warranty replacement over a CX. I had a C7 before I upgraded to the C9 and it has some bad burn in. Netflix logo, Windows taskbar, etc. I do use my big TVs as computer monitors though. Comfy couch PC gaming with a controller. I feel like since I'm spending that much money I shouldn't have to baby a TV. So its always contrast maxed and backlight setting maxed.
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Ulysses 31
Member
Ulysses 31
Member
Aha.
I see you don't subscribe to the "once you go OLED you can't go back" mantra some are pushing in this thread either.
Excess
Member
I saw this video. He's comparing two different OLED's and the LG handles near blacks almost as well as the mastering OLED in the middle. It's the Sony model that seems to have issues. This is not an OLED-specific issue.
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
Naw. I will take the slight hit in image quality for the gaming features Samsung provides and the protection against burn in.Aha.
I see you don't subscribe to the "once you go OLED you can't go back" mantra some are pushing in this thread either.
Whitecrow
Banned
OLEDs are better in dark scenes, yes, but in bright scenes, OLEDs are too dim for bright daylight scennes, where LEDs crush OLEDs.
buenoblue
Member
Yeah this is another thing about oleds. When there is a bright scene or using as a white pc desktop the picture is pretty severely dimmmed to stop burn in. Maybe not a deal breaker but it always bugged me on my old oled. As they say there is no perfect display, it's all about which compromises you can live with.
Also perfect black is very nice don't get me wrong, but look around you, nothing in real life is really that black anyway.
Also I've had my Samsung tv 4 or 5 years now so not really kept up with the specs but oleds 5 years ago maxed out at 600 lines motion resolution with interpolation on and 300 with it off, whereas my Samsung was double that.
Also perfect black is very nice don't get me wrong, but look around you, nothing in real life is really that black anyway.
Also I've had my Samsung tv 4 or 5 years now so not really kept up with the specs but oleds 5 years ago maxed out at 600 lines motion resolution with interpolation on and 300 with it off, whereas my Samsung was double that.
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Skyfox
Member
Bet you this is because when you change to VRR or game mode the tv treats it as a seperate profile and the default TV settings apply unless you've changed them while in that mode.For console gaming, VRR is an overrated feature that's not ready yet for TVs. Even on some new high end TVs, like the Samsung Q90T, using VRR fucks up the gamma curve and ruins the accuracy of the image.
On my Samsung I've noticed that all color/contrast settings etc. are saved for each mode.
VRR looks amazing on Batman Arkham Asylum as an example.
TKOFromTokyo
Member
Aha.
I see you don't subscribe to the "once you go OLED you can't go back" mantra some are pushing in this thread either.
I think it all depends on what you’re looking for. Personally, I’d never get a Samsung. They are overpriced, their colors are way off without calibration, they have horrible DSE, their motion handling is inferior, the game mode is visually poor compared to other brands, and they only have one HDMI 2.1 port in the US. That Samsung pop everyone talks about is because their colors are intentionally off from reference. If you look at enthusiast forums, they point you towards OLEDs as LCD (LED) still isn’t their yet for getting as close to reference as possible.
If I were to buy an LCD (LED) tv, I’d go with a Sony or a more budget tv like a higher end Hisense. The Sony will be superior picture quality and motion, and will include Dolby Vision, with some sacrifice in lag. The Hisense will give you much bigger bang for your buck than the Samsung.
I did a lot of research and waited years before buying a new tv. For me, the biggest factors were image quality, motion handling, and build quality. That’s why I chose a Sony A90J OLED, which is the best tv I’ve seen that is commercially available in the US.
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Ulysses 31
Member
LG has/had issues with black overshoots too so even if it's not an OLED specific issue, it's shouldn't be taken for granted that OLED TVs display black levels perfectly.
kyliethicc
Member
When watching a film or playing a game in a dark room, the blacks on screen shouldn't have to look just dark grey. If the artists mastered the image to be literally 0 nits, like true black, then that's how it should be viewed.
For me, its about how our eyes see. Its like when one is in a truly pitch black environment in real life and some objects and details in the space just cannot be seen without turning on a light. It has nothing to do with how "black" an object is or appears in a direct well lit environment. Put a bright red shirt in a pitch dark room, at night, with no light sources.. you won't be able to see what color the shirt is. You won't be able to see the shirt. The red shirt is thus infinitely "black" to our eyes in that moment. (Plus, technically black and white aren't even colors, blah blah etc.)
OLED is the ideal tech for allowing exactly and only the necessary pixels to be used to display. No extra blooming around highlights (or white text on screen, etc) from the inelegant backlight setups on LCDs. Downsides of course are limited brightness and burn in risk.
Nah. Its Samsung's fault, not user error. Has nothing to do with picture settings.
Samsung Q90T Xbox Series X VRR Issues
Hello everyone. So I've had the Series X for a few days now and have managed to play around with settings in various games. Some of the games I've "tested" are Gears 5, Forza Horizon 4, Ori and the Will of the Wisps, AC Valhalla, FIFA 21... So some quite varied content. The issues I'm...
eu.community.samsung.com
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NintendosBooger
Member
LG CX is the best I've owned. Got it last Jan on a Costco deal.
Skyfox
Member
When watching a film or playing a game in a dark room, the blacks on screen shouldn't have to look just dark grey. If the artists mastered the image to be literally 0 nits, like true black, then that's how it should be viewed.
For me, its about how our eyes see. Its like when one is in a truly pitch black environment in real life and some objects and details in the space just cannot be seen without turning on a light. It has nothing to do with how "black" an object is or appears in a direct well lit environment. Put a bright red shirt in a pitch dark room, at night, with no light sources.. you won't be able to see what color the shirt is. You won't be able to see the shirt. The red shirt is thus infinitely "black" to our eyes in that moment. (Plus, technically black and white aren't even colors, blah blah etc.)
OLED is the ideal tech for allowing exactly and only the necessary pixels to be used to display. No extra blooming around highlights (or white text on screen, etc) from the inelegant backlight setups on LCDs. Downsides of course are limited brightness and burn in risk.
Nah. Its Samsung's fault, not user error. Has nothing to do with picture settings.
Samsung Q90T Xbox Series X VRR Issues
Hello everyone. So I've had the Series X for a few days now and have managed to play around with settings in various games. Some of the games I've "tested" are Gears 5, Forza Horizon 4, Ori and the Will of the Wisps, AC Valhalla, FIFA 21... So some quite varied content. The issues I'm...
Those comments include people like me who dont have the problem. If anyone reading this has issues with VRR please try this:
Disable 120hz mode on the series x
Disable and re-enable latency mode on the series x
Use the xbox's VRR setting or the 120hz setting - not both. So for games that offer 120, turn 120 on in xbox settings, then turn them off again and put VRR back on if youre playing a game like Arkham Asylum which does 45fps.
Also make sure to set to auto-color instead of native when game mode is actually active if you dont like the appearance (stuff like contrast enhancer etc combined with native can look a bit garish). If youre watching TV or movies in an app then turn latency mode off.
alabtrosMyster
Banned
That one is great, but it doesn't support HDR, or colors... However it plays your venyl discs!
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Skyfox
Member
I think part of the confusion is caused by people adjusting their tv settings while in series x os instead of while a game is running.
The series x os can tell the tv to go to game mode when a game starts but the series x os itself does not run in game mode. So the tv settings jump to a seperate settings profile when the game actually starts.
The series x os can tell the tv to go to game mode when a game starts but the series x os itself does not run in game mode. So the tv settings jump to a seperate settings profile when the game actually starts.
kyliethicc
Member
You do realize most console games that will be aiming for 120 Hz will be dropping frames frequently and will benefit the most from VRR?
This issue is with how LG & Samsung have implemented VRR into their TVs, nothing to do with Xbox, btw.
I suspect this is why the HDMI Forum has yet to officially certify their VRR implementation and why Sony is waiting.
These very popular new TVs both have gamma inaccuracies when enabling VRR. Its a flawed feature for now.
Nah
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John Bilbo
Member
Otherwise a great gaming setup, but man the loading times on vinyl can be up to 44 minutes!That one is great, but it doesn't support HDR, or colors... However it plays your venyl discs!
Skyfox
Member
You do realize most console games that will be aiming for 120 Hz will be dropping frames frequently and will benefit the most from VRR?
This issue is with how LG & Samsung have implemented VRR into their TVs, nothing to do with Xbox, btw.
I suspect this is why the HDMI Forum has yet to officially certify their VRR implementation and why Sony is waiting.
These very popular new TVs both have gamma inaccuracies when enabling VRR. Its a flawed feature for now.
You keep ignoring that the tv has a seperate profile of saved settings depending on the mode active.
Your comment about games aiming for 120 being the most common usecase ignores the majority of games in existence which do not target 120 and do benefit from VRR.
kyliethicc
Member
No, I'm well aware of how Samsung has settings for SDR, HDR, SDR game mode, HDR game mode.
Has nothing to do with this.
Ulysses 31
Member
Depends how much you value creator's intent, people like to point that warm2 is closest while I think it's too red/yellow and whites look off IMO. Personally I like brighntess and popping colors and I like to see what's going on, looking at you, GoT S8E3.
DSE is unit dependent though, I've had so bad DSE on new TVs that I returned it twice. Now I got a unit with little to no DSE.
Samsung's been stingy with their one HDMI 2.1 port since 2019 indeed.
Sony's up there with Samsung with their high-end TV prices.
Personally I don't find game mode to be that much worse than non game mode but perhaps I haven't played games where's that most noticeable yet.
Since you have an A90J, did you check out QUANTUM TVs take on that TV? He hammers on the juddery motion in gaming and how few gaming options it has.
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TKOFromTokyo
Member
I’m all about watching things as the creator intended. That’s the most important thing to me.
While DSE is indeed unit dependent, Samsung has a reputation for poor DSE compared to the other higher end LCD TVs. Yes, Sony may be overpriced like Samsung, but they offer superior image quality, motion handling, and build quality in their higher end models that it’s more justified to me.
As for Samsung’s game mode, it’s been well known for a few years now that in order to reduce lag they have sacrificed local dimming, which leads to a dull picture.
I won’t even waste my time discussing Quantum. He’s a clickbait clown whose reputation is awful for a reason.
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Kuranghi
Member
Can we please relegate this bizarre myth to the annuals of display history, 99% of monitors DO NOT have 1ms input lag, some of them have 1ms response time, which is not related to input lag. The response time is also advertised as its lowest value in a specific situation, its not reflective of the average respsonse time of a pixel on screen.
If you want to know what the input lag of a monitor is, you need to look at technical reviews. Monitors are still lower generally but its six and two threes at this point for most users, at 120hz most of the high end modern TVs are under 12ms, LG is under 10ms. They're under 20ms for 60hz output as well.
Afaik there isn't much point in input lag being lower than half of the frametime, so 4.16ms for 120hz and 8.33ms for 60hz, I might be misunderstanding how it works though because I'm just going by internet enthusiast's information, like blurbusters et al.
You do want a "1ms" response time monitor for gaming, but its because each frame is displayed more clearly (with no smearing) like on VA/IPS panel LCD TVs, so when you are at 144+ hz the pixels should be able to change fully before the next frame starts being requested/drawnm which avoids smearing in motion.
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Whitecrow
Banned
Okay okay my bad. Didnt want to spread missinformation. Fixed.
StateofMajora
Banned
Samsung is getting pretty dogged on in the thread I think, but honestly Sony has fallen while the former has only gotten better.
The new Sony XR processors are a mixed bag ; some details are presented as sharper but others are inferior when compared to the 2016/2017 X1 chipsets. There's less freedom than before in the picture menus, less picture presets, always on interpolation (even though you do want this on on oled for sure).
Whilst Sony's local dimming and colors are superior to Samsung, Sony still only has 32 zones so even in game mode the Qn90A is going to have less blooming and better blacks than the X90J. And as for the colors I can calibrate the Samsung, though if out of the box color is most important to you Sony still has that edge at least.
LG oled I just don't trust anymore, after bad experience with a C9 and now A8h. They seriously need better materials and QC, and maybe inkjet printing will help with that latter. The oled materials just aren't durable enough. It's easy to say just get the warranty, but it's a pain to deal with trading in oleds all the time. And whilst you do have burn in while waiting on the swap, you have to deal with watching a busted TV as I am doing right now.
Samsung has markedly better motion this year, and while it still needs improvement I don't think it's as big a gap as some think anymore.
As I see it there are 2 valid criticisms with current QN90A :
1. There's only one hdmi 2.1 port and 2. DSE which Sony is still better at. Personally, i'm going to hope for a good panel and if it's bad i'll just swap it, no big deal.
Basically, Sony is pulling an Intel and slacking off, where they could be adding more zones with mini led and spend more time on their new processors to get every detail and option right. I admit i'm a bit salty that they gave me shitty customer service, but Sony is legitimately a worse company than they were in 2017 and giving you less, not more.
The new Sony XR processors are a mixed bag ; some details are presented as sharper but others are inferior when compared to the 2016/2017 X1 chipsets. There's less freedom than before in the picture menus, less picture presets, always on interpolation (even though you do want this on on oled for sure).
Whilst Sony's local dimming and colors are superior to Samsung, Sony still only has 32 zones so even in game mode the Qn90A is going to have less blooming and better blacks than the X90J. And as for the colors I can calibrate the Samsung, though if out of the box color is most important to you Sony still has that edge at least.
LG oled I just don't trust anymore, after bad experience with a C9 and now A8h. They seriously need better materials and QC, and maybe inkjet printing will help with that latter. The oled materials just aren't durable enough. It's easy to say just get the warranty, but it's a pain to deal with trading in oleds all the time. And whilst you do have burn in while waiting on the swap, you have to deal with watching a busted TV as I am doing right now.
Samsung has markedly better motion this year, and while it still needs improvement I don't think it's as big a gap as some think anymore.
As I see it there are 2 valid criticisms with current QN90A :
1. There's only one hdmi 2.1 port and 2. DSE which Sony is still better at. Personally, i'm going to hope for a good panel and if it's bad i'll just swap it, no big deal.
Basically, Sony is pulling an Intel and slacking off, where they could be adding more zones with mini led and spend more time on their new processors to get every detail and option right. I admit i'm a bit salty that they gave me shitty customer service, but Sony is legitimately a worse company than they were in 2017 and giving you less, not more.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Link with the specs of 4K@120Hz HDMI 2.1 monitors
Ulysses 31
Member
I know of an Asus one
ROG Strix XG43UQ | Monitors | ROG United States
43 inch, 4K UHD (3840x2160), 144Hz, FreeSync? 2 HDR, Adaptive Sync, Aura Sync, DSC
rog.asus.com
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
The mastering monitor is a LED using similar tech as the new Hisense.
Marvel14
Banned
Beaten..and I only researched and discovered this today.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Input lag numbers?I know of an Asus one
ROG Strix XG43UQ | Monitors | ROG United States
43 inch, 4K UHD (3840x2160), 144Hz, FreeSync? 2 HDR, Adaptive Sync, Aura Sync, DSC