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[muteZX]

Curious shadows stuff:

old stuff .. /heavy on GPU/

penumbra, umbra, ante ..

 

[longdi]

don't forget sony only gave us the sequential read and write numbers but a ssd has more performance metrics, an important one is sustained performance.

not saying ps5 io is not impressive but perhaps its realworld application is not drastically as big as the numbers imply. another epic china leak was that sony gone with that many queue lanes was a cost saving one, they can use cheaper nand.

so aside from smaller game sizes and some games load a few seconds faster. imo those on nvme already, aren't really blown away. sadly because of jimbo choice to x-gen until end of 2023, it will be awhile before we can be proven wrong

 

[harmny]

And is not a direct comparison to the PS5 demo as we have not seen this demo on PC run in compiled mode from start to finish.

Simply put:

editor mode:
- Everything related to gameplay is disabled, so you have much better performance to build your scene.

compiled mode:
- Every game mechanism runs, so you can see how well it runs, more taxing because this uses every aspect of your hardware. If editor mode was more taxing, you're causing developers headaches.

I'm not talking about benefits for the PS5. That's not the point we're trying to make. The point is that this demo was all in editor.

Another great example, look at Teardown...creating in magicvoxel is less taxing then when it's running compiled in the engine. Maybe not completely the same, but yes every game mechanic is enabled when it's equally running:



Edit: Dude serious, nobody is talking about "outperforming", since what we've seen in their video today is a totally different video then before, and only show how it's been build in editor mode....nothing more.

At this point this guy snake is trolling. The guy is so wrong it's embarrassing to read.

But it's a nice gesture that he took the baton from bo hazem to be the ps5 fanboy making delusional and laughable claims page after page since that guy is probably on suicide watch after seeing this video and realizing all the energy he spent last week making 10000 words posts and analyzing "the wording " of epic previous videos was for nothing.

 

[llien]

old stuff .. /heavy on GPU/

penumbra, umbra, ante ..

That is theory (lots of it is old).
I am rather impressed by the implementation.

 

[muteZX]

2 questions

Why does PC need NV IO and DS if that is all that matters? How will PC handle UE5 more gracefully than XSX and PS5 if the whole game can't be loaded into RAM?

PS5 SSD IO — 5,500MB/s reads x 3.27 = cca 18GB/sec .. there I fixed it for ya ..

on the PC side .. IF slow SSD THAN load much more RAM /32GB+/ or of coz much faster SSD and ninja CPU/GPU for depacking if needed.

I need a rest .. use google fu .. study.

 

[Snake29]

Did we see the same demo today, since this: is the compiled version running with every mechanic enabled. Today's demo was a editor view of the area with everything disabled and not running the demo compiled with character. This is what editor is for, creating your scene or object.

No one said it can't run on any other platform. The question is HOW will it run compared to the other platforms.

Maybe i'm blind but i didn't saw this in editor? Shocking since that's not what editor mode is for duhhh....

 

[Dry_Kill_Logic_87]

This is the very definition of what I consider "next gen". Billions of polygons, lot of them casting shadows, with realistic GI. It's something we will eventually see in most of the engines from first party developers, but it's clearly not available now.
When someone say we already have next gen games, please post this video.

I respect your opinion but to me Ratchet & Clank and Horizon FW look next gen. if no one said Horizon is also on ps4, people would behave differently now.
amount of stuff happening in R&C,down and in the air, the foliage, pedestrians, puddles, animals, one box breaks in like thousand pieces...
I've never seen foliage that dense as Horizon, never seen underwater parts look that good and populated, water is clear near the beach, sun rays in the forest,
sand, concrete that was in the water is full of sea shells...

 

[namekuseijin]

This is the very definition of what I consider "next gen". Billions of polygons, lot of them casting shadows, with realistic GI. It's something we will eventually see in most of the engines from first party developers, but it's clearly not available now.
When someone say we already have next gen games, please post this video.

totally. Nextgen is polygons, not imagemaps (not really needed anymore) nor resolution or framerate. There's probably the equivalent of the entirety of GTA V or Botw maps just as surface detail on one of those rocks.

now we just need a nextgen medium on which to appreciate such graphical jump. No, it's not watching it on a boring old 4K TV, it's a VR headset allowing you to be there, face it.

 

[Snake29]

At this point this guy snake is trolling. The guy is so wrong it's embarrassing to read.

But it's a nice gesture that he took the baton from bo hazem to be the ps5 fanboy making delusional and laughable claims page after page since that guy is probably on suicide watch after seeing this video and realizing all the energy he spent last week making 10000 words posts and analyzing "the wording " of epic previous videos was for nothing.

Ow please explain then lol. Since a few people clearly don't know the difference between editor modes performance compared to complied mode running all mechanics.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

Ow please explain then lol. Since a few people clearly don't know the difference between editor modes performance compared to complied mode running all mechanics.

Editor will always use more resources than a baked demo. Until people understand this basic, simple concept, it's impossible to go forward with conversations with people who are uninformed or even ignorant to the facts. Gotta start from there to move on.

 

[Endless Fluff]

I love how Sony fanboys refuse to believe what an actual dev is saying. This is like refusing what Cerny said about PS5 being a 10TF machine.

People were banned left and right for "9TF".

Sony fanboys have been shitting up UE5 threads for the past 2-3 weeks. It's gotten really annoying.

lol. Sure mods, whatever.

 

[Papacheeks]

Im not really going to continue this much.
This will effectively be my last post regarding this topic.

In editor with everything turned on, it WILL be more taxing than the compiled game at the same settings.
Yes you can turn things off in editor, but in like for like, because you would need like for like to see what your game actually looks like....the editor version is more taxing.
You would need to see what the final game looks like but would still need to have the engine base overhead running at the same time....its the reason Dev Systems almost always have way way higher specs than what you would actually need to run the game.
It is possible to say use editor mode at 720p, with lower LODs, lower textures, lower resolution lighting etc etc throughout and then compile the game at full wormage, but its not really productive to do that because you are effectively compiling blind.....but in a like for like run, where all settings are equal....the editor running the game will beat the system up more than the fully compiled game would.



Because technology never stands still....we must always keep moving forward.
Current PCs already have CPUs and SSDs that can load/decompress data at the same rate as the XSX....its up to devs to actually utilize them. And then theres always the caveat of will enough PCs be able to give up cores to do this decompression in realtime?
DirectStorage and RTX IO are just advancements on said technology.
RTX IO has a throughput multiple times that of the PS5 even if PCs dont have dedicated decompression chips.....PCs will literally use a CPU core to do that decompression....again its up to the devs to implement that.
If a dev wanted during a loading section they could give up 3 cores to decompress and load data superfast without even needing RTXIO.
But again how many PCs can give up 3 cores even if only for a second when the current most popular core count is 4 with 6 and 8 rather slowly catching up.

But with RTXIO only half a core would be used to read at absolutely ridiculous speeds.
Its all up to devs...Sony was just clever by putting dedicated hardware to do that job.
Respect for their forethought but dont think its something that current PCs simply cant do, its more something that devs look at the current PC landscape and think well not many people will actually be able to give up the processing power.
Once RTX IO hits half a core for blistering speed.....well skies the limit.

Doneof

Im not really going to continue this much.
This will effectively be my last post regarding this topic.

In editor with everything turned on, it WILL be more taxing than the compiled game at the same settings.
Yes you can turn things off in editor, but in like for like, because you would need like for like to see what your game actually looks like....the editor version is more taxing.
You would need to see what the final game looks like but would still need to have the engine base overhead running at the same time....its the reason Dev Systems almost always have way way higher specs than what you would actually need to run the game.
It is possible to say use editor mode at 720p, with lower LODs, lower textures, lower resolution lighting etc etc throughout and then compile the game at full wormage, but its not really productive to do that because you are effectively compiling blind.....but in a like for like run, where all settings are equal....the editor running the game will beat the system up more than the fully compiled game would.



Because technology never stands still....we must always keep moving forward.
Current PCs already have CPUs and SSDs that can load/decompress data at the same rate as the XSX....its up to devs to actually utilize them. And then theres always the caveat of will enough PCs be able to give up cores to do this decompression in realtime?
DirectStorage and RTX IO are just advancements on said technology.
RTX IO has a throughput multiple times that of the PS5 even if PCs dont have dedicated decompression chips.....PCs will literally use a CPU core to do that decompression....again its up to the devs to implement that.
If a dev wanted during a loading section they could give up 3 cores to decompress and load data superfast without even needing RTXIO.
But again how many PCs can give up 3 cores even if only for a second when the current most popular core count is 4 with 6 and 8 rather slowly catching up.

But with RTXIO only half a core would be used to read at absolutely ridiculous speeds.
Its all up to devs...Sony was just clever by putting dedicated hardware to do that job.
Respect for their forethought but dont think its something that current PCs simply cant do, its more something that devs look at the current PC landscape and think well not many people will actually be able to give up the processing power.
Once RTX IO hits half a core for blistering speed.....well skies the limit.

You are correct,

But I have in my years of watching games being developed have seen people in editor/creation mode of said engines ever have things like post processing on while building. Some things and systems are on, but when you need to work quick when zoomed in on some rock faces or a character model mid combo to make adjustments, you usually dont have a lot of things turned on. When you hit editor mode after coming out of playout/demo it freezes certain things that are linked to post processing, and finalizations that add extra effects or quality rendering techniques which are even more taxing.

Theres a reason so much optimizations are done at the near end.

I'm not disagreeing that most if not all developers are using crazy high powered PC's for development that obviously far exceed in terms of real time rendering , processing. But again we dont know unless Epic shows us the same demo running/playing in realtime set to same asset settings, same asset quality (8k) with streaming assets via ssd during the end part of the demo which is obviously similar to Ratchet's gameplay when moving through different environments in a instant.

Do you not believe these conversations we are having with our knowledge of how engines work, not the same conversations Sony had with developers and engine creators? Because if there wasn't an issue with said workflows in engines in how assets/game data gets streamed to VRAM from storage using dedicated CPU cores that could be used for the actual game processing then the custom I/O solution would not make any sense to invest heavily in.
I believe the few developers I've talked to who have devkits, who are way more knowledgeable than someone like me who just is an idiot who dabbles with mods. Have a better understanding and from what they have said that they can talk about, is what we see in terms of PC development pipelines are behind SOny when it comes to the solution to asset storage/streaming.

None of the cpu cores in PS5 are being used to the extent that they are on PC for compressing/decompressing data and streaming it to vram.
Why do you think V-cache, infinity cache, chiplet design are all being talked about across the PC space? GPU's are about to go through a revolution in what they have on a chip. Your going to see some form on the cpu/cpu chiplet deisgns with possible large cache storage along with possible dedicated separate chip that talks to cpu to do the same thing the PS5 does.

But those are still a ways off which to me makes Matt's from resetera responses about Sony's solution have more merrit and make more sense now.

 

[Snake29]

I love how Sony fanboys refuse to believe what an actual dev is saying. This is like refusing what Cerny said about PS5 being a 10TF machine.

People were banned left and right for "9TF".

Sony fanboys have been shitting up UE5 threads for the past 2-3 weeks. It's gotten really annoying.

No, people claiming that editor mode is the same as running the same shit compiled, because it's not.

DonJuanSchlong No your wrong, editor mode is not running any game mechanics, so how is that ever more taxing? Since when are all mechanics enabled in editor mode if you need to create your scene?

That's why you need to compile the code to see it RUNNING with all implemented mechanics, and that's something they didn't shown in this demo video, but that was also not their intention....

The point they tried to make about the "misconception" was because some people said UE5 and Nanite was "exclusive running on PS5" and that's false. UE5 is scalable but that doesn't mean any device is running it at the same performance. They didn't mention the I/O performance since that was not the intention of this demo.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

No, people claiming that editor mode is the same as running the same shit compiled, because it's not.

It's not, you're right about that. It's more resource heavy to run the editor than a compiled product. So it doesn't make sense for people to argue about this. It's even crazier for people to think ps5 can somehow run this better, when it can't even run the editor in the first place.

I wish we could talk about the demo instead of being bumbarded by folks who come on here to cope.

 

[GuinGuin]

I respect your opinion but to me Ratchet & Clank and Horizon FW look next gen. if no one said Horizon is also on ps4, people would behave differently now.
amount of stuff happening in R&C,down and in the air, the foliage, pedestrians, puddles, animals, one box breaks in like thousand pieces...
I've never seen foliage that dense as Horizon, never seen underwater parts look that good and populated, water is clear near the beach, sun rays in the forest,
sand, concrete that was in the water is full of sea shells...

They both look way better than the sea of brown static objects in the unreal 5 demo. Sorry not sorry.

 

[muteZX]

It's not, you're right about that. It's more resource heavy to run the editor than a compiled product. So it doesn't make sense for people to argue about this. It's even crazier for people to think ps5 can somehow run this better, when it can't even run the editor in the first place.

I wish we could talk about the demo instead of being bumbarded by folks who come on here to cope.

mah inferior friend .. compiled demo exe drops to 36 fps with shit /shit=literally nothing/ going on screen on super heavy specs PC .. isnt it. So its a 30 fps Vsync locked poor thing.

I am confused, angry, sad and horny at the same time.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Bo_Hazem @PaintTinJr muteZX @geordiemp

Where is my apology?

Can't run on PC huh? Or maybe run it on the editor too!

Sorry.

If he just was honest and said without extra RAM that would've been much better.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

mah inferior friend .. compiled demo exe drops to 36 fps with shit /shit=literally nothing/ going on screen on super heavy specs PC .. isnt it. So its a 30 fps Vsync locked poor thing.

I am confused, angry, sad and horny at the same time.

*Another one.gif in Espanol and French dialects*


Also: *laughs in braille*

Sorry.

If he just was honest and said without extra RAM that would've been much better.

He does this shit every generation, which is why it's never a surprise after the first time he did it. Remember when consoles would make PC obsolete, which would also mean his engine would be worthless.... He can be a clown, but at the same time we all love him and his work. He's a genius, but just loves to take a dump where it's not needed.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Anyway, I'm glad they're diving deeper into the demo. Now if they would just release it so people could benchmark it with a vast amount of different systems, that'd be great.

 

[Three]

The SSD and I/O nonsense you are talking about is irrelevant.
Because, the whole demo was loaded into RAM.

The scripted VFX portions would buckle a PS5 well before it buckled a PC.
The Niagara parts of the demo had already run their course by the time he had arrived to their sections, because the demo had been running for hours already.

So what exactly is your argument?
Why would/should a PC struggle to run this demo....there is nothing in editor that was off that if turned on would suddenly fuck up the demo.

I don't think everything is loaded into RAM. Not even in the editor. The editor requiring a huge amount of RAM too.
You can see things stream in at 13:12.

 

[harmny]

Ow please explain then lol. Since a few people clearly don't know the difference between editor modes performance compared to complied mode running all mechanics.

people do know the difference they have been telling you the difference since their first post. but why would i explain it? i can already predict the following 8 posts.

"running the editor is much more taxing than running the compiled demo"

"yes but the editor doesn't have ALL the gameplay mechanics and logic running"

"doesn't matter and what gameplay mechanics? it's just a demo there are bascially no gameplay mechanics just some particles and a girl walking around and climbing. the editor is way more taxing"

"oh but in the ps5 demo the girl was flying at 50mph and in this demo the guy is moving the camera at 30mph"

"yes it doesn't matter. and they have to run the actual demo on a pc to see how it goes or do you think they compile it and run it on a ps5 every time they want to see how some mechanic works?"

"oh but look the editor doesn't have the portal effect at the end! emiting light!"

"yeah it doesn't matter, it's still harder to run the editor. and do you think some random effect and some light is more taxing than moving around in an editor in a room filled with 33 million polygon statues with lumen enabled? you don't need to run the demo this is all the evidence you need"

"until i don't see the exact same demo running on a pc with all the mechanics all i can say is that only ps5 is able to run that demo that well"

 

[Bladed Thesis]

No, people claiming that editor mode is the same as running the same shit compiled, because it's not.

It's more resource heavy than the demo. How are you not picking that up from like 5 people telling you this? Professionals telling you this, Epic's own guy telling you this.

At this point, the constant fud from some group of belligerent Sony boys needs to stop and the shitting up threads where they bury their heads in the sand needs to end.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

people do know the difference they have been telling you the difference since their first post. but why would i explain it? i can already predict the following 8 posts.

"running the editor is much more taxing than running the compiled demo"

"yes but the editor doesn't have ALL the gameplay mechanics and logic running"

"doesn't matter and what gameplay mechanics? it's just a demo there are bascially no gameplay mechanics just some particles and a girl walking around and climbing. the editor is way more taxing"

"oh but in the ps5 demo the girl was flying at 50mph and in this demo the guy is moving the camera at 30mph"

"yes it doesn't matter. and they have to run the actual demo on a pc to see how it goes or do you think they compile it and run it on a ps5 every time they want to see how some mechanic works?"

"oh but look the editor doesn't have the portal effect at the end! emiting light!"

"yeah it doesn't matter, it's still harder to run the editor. and do you think some random effect and some light is more taxing than moving around in an editor in a room filled with 33 million polygon statues with lumen enabled? you don't need to run the demo this is all the evidence you need"

"until i don't see the exact same demo running on a pc with all the mechanics all i can say is that only ps5 is able to run that demo that well"

Great points. There's no way anyone can have a proper rebuttal to this. Couldn't have said it any better myself. Seriously.

 

[M1chl]

Sorry.

If he just was honest and said without extra RAM that would've been much better.

Unexpected last panel : D

 

[Snake29]

It's more resource heavy than the demo. How are you not picking that up from like 5 people telling you this? Professionals telling you this, Epic's own guy telling you this.

At this point, the constant fud from some group of belligerent Sony boys needs to stop and the shitting up threads where they bury their heads in the sand needs to end.

So are these 5 people professionals...no. Epic never said what they are running was more resource heavy since it wasn't compiled atm but running in editor mode.

This is not fud, you can fucking test it yourself. I see indeed the same 5 people that are trolling in other threads around here, so nothing new. And since in editor it runs better on my machine then when i compile the game, that's when you start controlling the game with everything enabled.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

*Another one.gif in Espanol and French dialects*


Also: *laughs in braille*


He does this shit every generation, which is why it's never a surprise after the first time he did it. Remember when consoles would make PC obsolete, which would also mean his engine would be worthless.... He can be a clown, but at the same time we all love him and his work. He's a genius, but just loves to take a dump where it's not needed.

I've discussed VFXVeteran before latest demo about how games designed around PS5 would just need extra 32-64GB (depending on storage speed) RAM to run, and I'm no expert at all. And seems it's the case here with UE5.

He just made himself a clown, really. Now even older hardware with enough RAM can run the demo, which is great news because that means multiplats won't be held back, or gaming in general. PS5 might be more efficient but that's only good for few years before PC's get ahead when 32-64GB RAM's are more common or when PCIe 5.0 hits. Also I think future graphics cards will have Kraken decompressors built in, if PS5DE at $400 can afford it, can't see it being an expensive thing, even if it's as powerful as 9x Zen2 cores.

 

[Bladed Thesis]

Sorry.

If he just was honest and said without extra RAM that would've been much better.

Big ups to you on stepping forward and admitting you were wrong.

We were given crazy information and while some people were doubtful, you were going with what you heard.

I have no issues with people going with what they heard AT THE TIME. Respect, my dude.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Also I want to drink to the Epic China chief engineer, who was made a clown for no reason by known Twitter troll Tim Sweeney.

This one is to you, pal.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Unexpected last panel : D

LOL, he fooled us. I honestly thought they will never code for bigger RAM's, which is naturally the compensation for slower storage throughput. Now they did exactly that. He should've been more honest with what he was meaning, assuming he wasn't blatantly lying.

Big ups to you on stepping forward and admitting you were wrong.

We were given crazy information and while some people were doubtful, you were going with what you heard.

I have no issues with people going with what they heard AT THE TIME. Respect, my dude.

A respectful person should always admit something wrong when it's obvious/convinced. But I will never trust his words ever again and always will question his takes. What made him believable is that no one came out with the RAM argument, I think.

 

[M1chl]

LOL, he fooled us. I honestly thought they will never code for bigger RAM's, which is naturally the compensation for slower storage throughput. Now they did exactly that. He should've been more honest with what he was meaning, assuming he wasn't blatantly lying.



A respectful person should always admit something wrong when it's obvious/convinced. But I will never trust his words ever again and always will question his takes. What made him believable is that no one came out with the RAM argument, I think.

Let's be real he needed to pro-up his investment into new technology and made it that everyone want that piece of the new tech, these people are salesman first and formost.

As I already said my morals can be adjusted and I would do exactly the....drumroll...same : D

 

[CrustyBritches]

This was a cool video, I learned a lot. TBH, I was more excited about Lumen and not having to build lighting, so I just jumped right into using it with even understanding how cool Nanite is.

He used a command to show stats for Nanite that's different from the one in the editor window. While explaining clusters, he shows that a typical scene has ~12mil Nanite tris. I was able to shortly import a nanite model from Bridge, spool up a shitload of instances, and push the scene to 20-25mil Nanite tris and run in PIE mode smoothly without any issues.

It's a trip to put on Nanite triangle or cluster mode and move the camera around and see it rearrange itself.

 

[CurtBizzy]

If anything this shows that Microsoft consoles are in deep , PCs users can simply install more ram but Xbox 4.8GB/s idk

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

If anything this shows that Microsoft consoles are in deep , PCs users can simply install more ram but Xbox 4.8GB/s idk

Wtf are you talking about? Get that uninformed console warring bs out of here.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Let's be real he needed to pro-up his investment into new technology and made it that everyone want that piece of the new tech, these people are salesman first and formost.

As I already said my morals can be adjusted and I would do exactly the....drumroll...same : D

Only question would be is: Aside from it running with extra RAM, how many devs will actually code their games for 32-64GB RAM's + 10-24GB VRAM's? UE5 can scale up and down easily, but even with empty maps and no trees/NPC's/bare-minimum logic the big boys (3090/6900XT) aren't showing perfect performance. Indeed, when they figure out how to make Nanite work with dynamic objects like trees/NPC's/etc that would be insane.

Also could mesh shaders/primitive shaders work on those Nanite-non-compatible characters/assets for better middle-ground?

 

[MastaKiiLA]

Given that the PS5 has a slot to accommodate NVME cards, I think it's safe to assume that even if the demo couldn't work on existing PC tech, that it will eventually, because PC drives and bandwidth will only continue to improve. It's kind of a silly thing to fight over.

 

[SLB1904]

Sony payed to confine the demo on PS5 seem otherwise we would have all the data possible and imaginable. but after these statements do you still have doubts? the ssd and the i / o of the ps5 you guys have just overhyped
For this reason the lie of Sweeney on twitter

What you talking about? The difference in speed between ps5 and ps4 is not close.
Ssd is the best thing that happened in gaming in years. But you wouldn't know that of course

 

[Croatoan]

The thing I still dont get. When using Nanite, with these high def meshes (scan or zbrush), is there no longer a use for normal maps? Like do you just sculpt something in zbrush, texture it, UV unwrap it, bake BC, Rough, Metal, and AO and then drop it into Unreal and let nanite do its thing?

If they are using substance painter for texturing, how are they loading these massive meshes into that program without crashing it?

I really need to download UE5 and give this a try.

Epic needs to to do a "Developing High Def meshes for Nanite" course. This is a completely new work flow that no other engine uses currently.

 

[CurtBizzy]

Wtf are you talking about? Get that uninformed console warring bs out of here.

I'm console warring now lmao

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

What you talking about? The difference in speed between ps5 and ps4 is not close.
Ssd is the best thing that happened in gaming in years. But you wouldn't know that of course

Best thing to happen to *consoles* in years. Us PC guys have been using SSD for the past 10 plus years.

And before you begin to reach far and wide, there are no games that need super fast SSD right now on PC. So I'll shut that down before you begin to move the goalposts.

 

[CurtBizzy]

Best thing to happen to *consoles* in years. Us PC guys have been using SSD for the past 10 plus years.

And before you begin to reach far and wide, there are no games that need super fast SSD right now on PC. So I'll shut that down before you begin to move the goalposts.

Star Citizen

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

Star Citizen

Any SSD is viable for that game. Even the slowest ones work well. Any real world examples?

 

[SLB1904]

Best thing to happen to *consoles* in years. Us PC guys have been using SSD for the past 10 plus years.

Me? Moving goal posts? I'm not you. What ssd you were using on PC 10 years plus?
And BTW you could add ssd on ps4 since 2013.
Trying to imply that ssd solve all the bottlenecks coming with hardware doesn't make you sound smart.

 

[FloatingIslands]

One matters, the other doesn't. Running in editor mode is more taxing on the system due to all of the overhead involved in running the actual UE5 editor. The FX, the particle bugs, the climbing and jumping and the cinematic fly scene in the end are inconsequential to running the demo in compiled out mode (i.e. they take very little cost compared to Nanite/Lumen). The PC will run that demo faster and at a higher resolution than the PS5. Period. There is no discussion. You don't need to see the demo run in compiled mode. It's already in it's worst running form - i.e. the editor.


Read my thread on my own benchmarks. It's running at native 4k/ 50s- > 60FPS in compiled mode. Where the editor runs less than that and requires more system resources than the packaged exe.

I think that the problem is that when you (correctly) say 'running in the editor' you mean starting a PIE instance to run the demo which is, as you said, a lot more taxing than packaging the demo and execute the .exe.

When Snake29 says 'running in the editor' he means moving stuff or changing values in the world loaded in the editor (without starting a PIE session), which uses less resources than a PIE session.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

Me? Moving goal posts? I'm not you. What ssd you were using on PC 10 years plus?

My first SSD was probably 1gb IIRC. Maybe less. Haven't used it for 10 years, obviously. But they have been available for over 10 years. They are new to consoles, which was the whole point of my previous post.

 

[Allandor]

I've discussed VFXVeteran before latest demo about how games designed around PS5 would just need extra 32-64GB (depending on storage speed) RAM to run, and I'm no expert at all. And seems it's the case here with UE5.

He just made himself a clown, really. Now even older hardware with enough RAM can run the demo, which is great news because that means multiplats won't be held back, or gaming in general. PS5 might be more efficient but that's only good for few years before PC's get ahead when 32-64GB RAM's are more common or when PCIe 5.0 hits. Also I think future graphics cards will have Kraken decompressors built in, if PS5DE at $400 can afford it, can't see it being an expensive thing, even if it's as powerful as 9x Zen2 cores.

Well, next big jump comes with DDR5 next year.
But I guess we won't see decompression-blocks on GPUs or CPUs soon. Much to "complicated" for an open architecture. This is nothing the CPU or GPU can't handle with the resources it has. Just increase those resources (more IPC, frequency, caches, ....) and you are good to go. And does not have the problem, that you have wasted area on the chip once another more effective compression tech arises. This is one of the advantages of the PC architecture vs fixed function units. If something new coming you can use it (if you have the power to use it ^^).
Also zlib, kraken or whatever is not always optimal for all cases. E.g. a build pipeline could dynamically go through different algorithms and use the best for the data it compresses. On consoles you are more or less "forced" to use the hw-supported compression tech, else you would waste resources.
That is also the reason why we don't have hardware decompression in PC hardware today. The idea is not new but in the open environment it would just be wasted DIE area.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

I think that the problem is that when you (correctly) say 'running in the editor' you mean starting a PIE instance to run the demo which is, as you said, a lot more taxing than packaging the demo and execute the .exe.

When Snake29 says 'running in the editor' he means moving stuff or changing values in the world loaded in the editor (without starting a PIE session), which uses less resources than a PIE session.

I honestly don't understand the difference between how taxing it is in editor or the demo itself as it all depends on the frame budget as I understand. Editor could be heavier or less taxing as well. Now we need to know what's the frame budget if someone can check and screenshot.

I can download the engine myself but I don't know shit where to go and check.

 

[99Luffy]

Best thing to happen to *consoles* in years. Us PC guys have been using SSD for the past 10 plus years.

And before you begin to reach far and wide, there are no games that need super fast SSD right now on PC. So I'll shut that down before you begin to move the goalposts.

There are no games that need super fast SSD right now because Microsoft DirectStorage only just came out in 2021.

 

[SLB1904]

My first SSD was probably 1gb IIRC. Maybe less. Haven't used it for 10 years, obviously. But they have been available for over 10 years. They are new to consoles, which was the whole point of my previous post.

They are not new to consoles. For xbox maybe but not for Playstation. I would say you could use ssd on ps3 but not sure.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Ooohhh the ban hammer in this thread..

 

[RayHell]

Lumen in the land of nanite is what he completely loaded into RAM, so that specific demo will run better on a PC.
Valley of the ancient demo specifically shows how Unreal Engine 5 is super efficient at streaming since the data isnt that large a PCIE4 SSD isnt actually needed to load in and out data.
Valley of the Ancient was used to show off how you could use Unreal Engine to make open world games that can stream in millions of polygons.
Test the demo yourself and see.

P.S We already have SSDs that catchup(read as trump) the PS5 SSD.

• PS5 SSD IO — 5,500MB/s reads, 5,500MB/s writes
• PNY XLR8 CS3140 —7,500MB/s reads, 6,850MB/s writes
• Adata XPG Gammix S70 —7,400MB/s reads, 6,400MB/s writes
• Mushkin Gamma — 7,175MB/s reads, 6,800MB/s writes
• Sabrent Rocket 4 Plus — 7,100MB/s reads, 6000MB/s writes
• Samsung 980 Pro — 7,000MB/s reads, 5,000MB/s writes
• WD SN850 Black — 7,000MB/s reads, 5,300MB/s writes

And before you come at me with the whole "compressed speed" thats not relevant right now.

Having a Ferrari doesn't mean you go 200Mph in traffic. Data output and data throughput is 2 different things. Until direct storage is standard across all PC, no PC dev will capitalize on it. Ps5 is way ahead of PC for data throughput on an applicable game development standpoint.