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[IntentionalPun]

What R&C does is about the detail level.

Been saying since the game reveal; that obviously could be done on any hardware really. Just with a much bigger data cache, which means less RAM for what's on screen.

You also could just do stuff like re-organize a level w/o any real new assets. Which would produce the same gameplay like the "puzzle" sections, and just not be as visually impressive.

In the end R&C is showing the power of asset variety w/ the SSD/io complex, and fast load times (which we already saw with Spiderman, and it's awesome as all hell)

 

[Lethal01]

What a weird take....



Obviously it's a proof of concept... Pretty sure there is more than 1 person who worked on R&C, vs this....

One is heavily funded, one is made just to prove PC is more than capable of doing this, and that it doesn't require cerny architecture for it to be possible. It's what many of us have been saying all along, people need to stop thinking a certain way because of he say she say, and think with logic and rationale for a second.

What a weird take, Obviously the point here is that this does not prove the concept.

Obviously, it's possible to load things in, What's impressive about Ratchet and Clank is the scale at which it's done, the size and quality of the world that they are loading in.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

What a weird take, Obviously the point here is that this does not prove the concept.

Obviously, it's possible to load things in, What's impressive about Ratchet and Clank is the scale at which it's done, the size and quality of the world that they are loading in.

What a weird take. How many games implement fast switching worlds, besides a handful of games that released prior to R&C? Titanfall, Medium, etc.

There doesn't really seem to be a market for games like that, hence it CAN be done, but barely anyone bothers, cause it's not warranted in 99.9% of games.

R&C took the concept and ran with it. Nothing wrong with it, but name one game that tried this and failed? Doubt you'll find one, cause most devs don't care for it. So many look at it as a gimmick or distracting. Do you think all games are now going to have teleports throwing you in world after world? Is this the direction we are considering next gen?

 

[Corndog]

The ps5 has 36 cus not 72. People are misunderstanding dual cus

 

[Lethal01]

What a weird take. How many games implement fast switching worlds, besides a handful of games that released prior to R&C? Titanfall, Medium, etc.

It's almost like they couldn't do it at this scale and without huge amounts of work which is why any attempts to do something similar are done at a tiny scale which is why while they idea might be the same they are doing totally different things than what ratchet and clank is doing.

There doesn't really seem to be a market for games like that, hence it CAN be done, but barely anyone bothers, cause it's not warranted in 99.9% of games.

Hence? You have said literally nothing to back this up, it is nothing but pure speculation. There is nothing for me to refute here since you have brought nothing to the table.

name one game that tried this and failed? Doubt you'll find one, cause most devs don't care for it.

So the fact that no game has done it is somehow evidence that anyone could do it... How high are you?

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

It's almost like they couldn't do it at this scale and without huge amounts of work which is why any attempts to do something similar are done at a tiny scale which is why while they idea might be the same they are doing totally different things than what ratchet and clank is doing.



Hence? You have said literally nothing to back this up, it is nothing but pure speculation. There is nothing for me to refute here since you have brought nothing to the table.



So the fact that no game has done it is somehow evidence that anyone could do it... How high are you?

You said it's possible yourself, wtf are you talking about? . It's a gimmick, there's no reason to go to different worlds 10 seconds apart from the other world. It's a gimmick if you can't stop and explore everything around you. Am I wrong? Instead of going through 2 different portals in a matter of seconds, could you stop after the first portal to just hang out, instead of running through QTE to the next portal?

You haven't refuted anything I've said, literally nothing. You couldn't even being water to the table at this point.

Nobody cares to do these gimmicks. Imagine adding these portals to COD, Halo, Forza, TLOU2, etc. Do you know how fucking stupid that sounds? It's a gimmick, accept it and move on. It was supposed to hype the ps5 SSD, nothing else.

 

[Md Ray]

Titanfall, Medium, etc.

There's no world switching happening in these games, not even close. R&C does more than what these are doing. It unloads a level and then loads a completely different level (world) with different sets of geometry, terrains and assets and more in under 2 seconds, whereas the TF2 & Medium aren't.

Titanfall 2

Same level structure, assets and everything just a simple lighting and effects switching and some enemies spawning and despawning. All of these elements remain in the memory. There's no R&C level of complexity happening here like bringing in an entirely different level from the disk to memory.

Medium

Same thing as Titanfall 2.

Rift Apart


Now look at the first couple of seconds of R&C. It's in a completely different realm altogether compared to TF2 and Medium.

 

[Lethal01]

You said it's possible yourself, wtf are you talking about? .

I've literally said nothing but the opposite. You could not have done this on ps4 or xbox one, that tech demo isn't doing the same thing either.

It's a gimmick, there's no reason to go to different worlds 10 seconds apart from the other world. It's a gimmick if you can't stop and explore everything around you. Am I wrong? Instead of going through 2 different portals in a matter of seconds, could you stop after the first portal to just hang out, instead of running through QTE to the next portal?

"These devs could totally have done this before if they wanted to, they just didn't want to" They couldn't which is why they didn't. If you think otherwise point to a game that's doing it. If you think Titanfall anywhere close to doing the same thing then you have no idea what you're talking about and should just leave the thread now.

 

[Md Ray]

I've literally said nothing but the opposite. You could not have done this on ps4 or xbox one, that tech demo isn't doing the same thing either.



"These devs could totally have done this before if they wanted to, they just didn't want to" They couldn't which is why they didn't. If you think otherwise point to a game that's doing it. If you think Titanfall anywhere close to doing the same thing then you have no idea what you're talking about and should just leave the thread now.

Yeah, he is clearly clueless lol.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

There's no world switching in these games. R&C does more than what these are doing. It unloads a level and then loads a completely different level (world) with different sets of geometry, terrains and assets and more in under 2 seconds, whereas the TF2 & Medium aren't.

Titanfall 2

Same level structure, assets and everything just a simple lighting and effects switching and some enemies spawning and despawning. All of these elements remain in the memory. There's no R&C level of complexity happening here like bringing in an entirely different level from the disk to memory.

Medium

Same thing as Titanfall 2.


Now look at R&C. It's in a different realm altogether.

Someone posted a hobby made UE4 demo to prove it's possible to do without all the hype and PR involved. But I'm sure you saw it already.

PC can have all of this in memory already. That has been proven already. That's literally the point. Pci gen 3 can do it already. Literally that's the entire point of the demo, besides showing off more in depth info about the engine. They started off saying you don't need a super SSD.

I've literally said nothing but the opposite. You could not have done this on ps4 or xbox one, that tech demo isn't doing the same thing either.



"These devs could totally have done this before if they wanted to, they just didn't want to" They couldn't which is why they didn't. If you think otherwise point to a game that's doing it. If you think Titanfall anywhere close to doing the same thing then you have no idea what you're talking about and should just leave the thread now.

When have I ever mentioned ps4 or xb1? I'm a PC gamer, I could give a fuck about consoles.


You missed the point entirely. No one cares to do teleports, as they wouldn't make sense in 99% of games. Why would you have this in Tony Hawk, MLB, spyro, battlefield, overwatch, grand turismo, etc? Please tell me what games can benefit from this, and why these "specific" games aren't out yet?

You obviously latch on to any PR involving your plastic console of choice. Me on the other hand, I don't care about any plastic console. I'm a glass and metal guy, exclusively on PC (although I own a switch). You should leave the thread if you can't add something to the table or discussion at least.

 

[Md Ray]

Imagine adding these portals to COD, Halo, Forza, TLOU2, etc. Do you know how fucking stupid that sounds? It's a gimmick, accept it and move on. It was supposed to hype the ps5 SSD,

 

[Md Ray]

posted a hobby made UE4 demo to prove it's possible to do without all the hype and PR involved. But I'm sure you saw it already

It's nowhere close to the same scale and sheer density as R&C. Wtf are you smoking?

 

[staticshock]

It's almost like they couldn't do it at this scale and without huge amounts of work which is why any attempts to do something similar are done at a tiny scale which is why while they idea might be the same they are doing totally different things than what ratchet and clank is doing.

Yeah, this is definitely in the same league as ratchet and Clank.... As long as you're blind.

There's no world switching happening in these games, not even close. R&C does more than what these are doing. It unloads a level and then loads a completely different level (world) with different sets of geometry, terrains and assets and more in under 2 seconds, whereas the TF2 & Medium aren't.
Now look at the first couple of seconds of R&C. It's in a completely different realm altogether compared to TF2 and Medium.

That Infiltrator > Zen Garden portal takes less than 2 seconds and they could have loaded up other Epic Games free environment.
It doesn't matter because R&C portals take about 3 seconds.
While the Valley of the ancient Demo unloads the desert completely and loads the Dark world from scratch in 4 seconds without superfast SSD, no direct storage, no RTX IO.
Valley of the ancient Demo uses an orders of magnitude more geometry and textures than R&C. Its not even close.
This is orders of magnitude higher leagues than R&C. The only way you can't see it if you're blind.

 

[Lethal01]

why these "specific" games aren't out yet?

because it wasn't possible to achieve this. Please prove otherwise by showing a game that has done it, instead of speculating that devs "just didn't want to"

Pci gen 3 can do it already. Literally that's the entire point of the demo, besides showing off more in depth info about the engine. They started off saying you don't need a super SSD.

The point is that the demo isn't proving it can be done. It's not doing anything close to the same level.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

because it wasn't possible to achieve this. Please prove otherwise by showing a game that has done it, instead of speculating that "they just didn't want to"

Are you obtuse? Or willfully ignorant? You are proving my point. Nobody cares to do this because it's a gimmick. That's my point. As you see it's possible on pc, and has been for a long time. But there are no games that would benefit from this, gameplay wise, which is also my point.

Now on the other hand, why don't you prove some games that would benefit from this gimmick? If it's already possible, then why is nobody doing it? It's not because they can't, which you've already proven. So where is it, where are the games?

 

[Lethal01]

As you see it's possible on pc, and has been for a long time.

What are you talking about? The whole point here is that the demo isn't showing it's possible, at all. Just like Titanfall isn't showing it's possible. Since they are doing totally different things.

 

[staticshock]

It's nowhere close to the same scale and sheer density as R&C. Wtf are you smoking?

R&C portals take about 3 seconds to load a mostly empty desert location with low poly geometry and textures.
While the Valley of the ancient Demo unloads the desert completely and loads the Dark world from scratch in 4 seconds without superfast SSD, no direct storage, no RTX IO.

That's right. Valley of the ancient Demo unloads and loads over 1 million assets with over 100+ billion triangles in 4 seconds.

 

[Md Ray]

That Infiltrator > Zen Garden portal takes less than 2 seconds and they could have loaded up other Epic Games free environment.
It doesn't matter because R&C portals take about 3 seconds.
While the Valley of the ancient Demo unloads the desert completely and loads the Dark world from scratch in 4 seconds without superfast SSD, no direct storage, no RTX IO.
Valley of the ancient Demo uses an orders of magnitude more geometry and textures than R&C. Its not even close.
This is orders of magnitude higher leagues than R&C. The only way you can't see it if you're blind.

Nice cope. But nope. What they're doing with R&C would absolutely cripple the entirety of 8+ core CPUs on PC because they're already using hardware decompression for this game on PS5. World switching at the PS5 levels on PC would absolutely require RTX IO/DirectStorage and NVMe's help.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

That Infiltrator > Zen Garden portal takes less than 2 seconds and they could have loaded up other Epic Games free environment.
It doesn't matter because R&C portals take about 3 seconds.
While the Valley of the ancient Demo unloads the desert completely and loads the Dark world from scratch in 4 seconds without superfast SSD, no direct storage, no RTX IO.
Valley of the ancient Demo uses an orders of magnitude more geometry and textures than R&C. Its not even close.
This is orders of magnitude higher leagues than R&C. The only way you can't see it if you're blind.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

Nice cope. But nope. What they're doing with R&C would absolutely cripple the entirety of 8+ core CPUs on PC because they're already using hardware decompression for this game on PS5. World switching at the PS5 levels on PC would absolutely require RTX IO/DirectStorage and NVMe's help.

Holy shit, please show proof. UE5 requires much more hardware wise, yet you are here looking clueless as Lethal01 in this respect.

You and Lethal01 should probably show some white papers, developer quotes, etc, before y'all keep digging a deeper grave. Imma lmfao when this comes to PC, and someone runs it with a pre-directstorage/pre-rtx I/O build. Imma laugh at you guys, just like I laughed at y'all for pushing bullshit like this demo, which proves you armchair devs are incapable of understanding game development.

 

[Lethal01]

 

[Md Ray]

Holy shit, please show proof. UE5 requires much more hardware wise, yet you are here looking clueless as Lethal01 in this respect.

You and Lethal01 should probably show some white papers, developer quotes, etc, before y'all keep digging a deeper grave. Imma lmfao when this comes to PC, and someone runs it with a pre-directstorage/pre-rtx I/O build. Imma laugh at you guys, just like I laughed at y'all for pushing bullshit like this demo, which proves you armchair are devs incapable of understanding game development.

UE5 demo requires much more hardware wise, in terms of GPU, yes.

Insomniac Games are using hardware decompression to decompress assets when moving data from SSD to memory (PC will use the CPU for this task w/o RTX IO, will be painfully slow, probably cause stutters). <2 sec load times are aided by HW decompression.
The whole memory is used for each level and data is pulled in as/when needed from the SSD. The compressed data in the disk is already in the GPU native format so as soon they decompress and drop the data into the unified memory, it's ready to be read by the GPU. Data inside the disk on PC isn't readily available in the format that GPUs can read so it's the driver's job to convert it before sending out to the system RAM > VRAM, therefore there's additional driver overhead cost on top (which DirectStorage might be looking to solve). For Insomniac, the PS5's I/O was so fast that pretty quickly it's their engine that became a constraint and there's still more untapped potential or "perf left on the table". These are the facts.

So yeah, world switching in R&C at the PS5 levels on PC would absolutely require RTX IO/DirectStorage and NVMe's help based on the above info from them.

 

[staticshock]

Nice cope. But nope. What they're doing with R&C would absolutely cripple the entirety of 8+ core CPUs on PC because they're already using hardware decompression for this game on PS5. World switching at the PS5 levels on PC would absolutely require RTX IO/DirectStorage and NVMe's help.

Oh another variant of the UE5 demo will need 128GB RAM on PC to run, Editor is less taxing than compiled build, Lumen and Nanite ran on PS5's Tempest Engine and Unreal engine engineers are lying.

UE5 demo requires much more hardware wise, in terms of GPU, yes.

Insomniac Games are using hardware decompression to decompress assets when moving data from SSD to memory (PC will use the CPU for this task w/o RTX IO, will be painfully slow, probably cause stutters). <2 sec load times are aided by HW decompression.
The whole memory is used for each level and data is pulled in as/when needed from the SSD. The compressed data in the disk is already in the GPU native format so as soon they decompress and drop the data into the unified memory, it's ready to be read by the GPU. Data inside the disk on PC isn't readily available in the format that GPUs can read so it's the driver's job to convert it before sending out to the system RAM > VRAM, therefore there's additional driver overhead cost on top (which DirectStorage might be looking to solve). For Insomniac, the PS5's I/O was so fast that pretty quickly it's their engine that became a constraint and there's still more untapped potential or "perf left on the table". These are the facts.

So yeah, world switching at the PS5 levels on PC would absolutely require RTX IO/DirectStorage and NVMe's help based on the above info from them.

Valley of the Ancient demo already does this without none of that nonesense.
LMFAO. without superfast SDD, DirectStorage and RTX IO.
Unloading and loading over 1 million assets, over 100 billion triangles in 4 seconds...wow!

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

UE5 demo requires much more hardware wise, in terms of GPU, yes.

Insomniac Games are using hardware decompression to decompress assets when moving data from SSD to memory (PC will use the CPU for this task w/o RTX IO, will be painfully slow, probably cause stutters). <2 sec load times are aided by HW decompression.
The whole memory is used for each level and data is pulled in as/when needed from the SSD. The compressed data in the disk is already in the GPU native format so as soon they decompress and drop the data into the unified memory, it's ready to be read by the GPU. Data inside the disk on PC isn't readily available in the format that GPUs can read so it's the driver's job to convert it before sending out to the system RAM > VRAM, therefore there's additional driver overhead cost on top (which DirectStorage might be looking to solve). For Insomniac, the PS5's I/O was so fast that pretty quickly it's their engine that became a constraint and there's still more untapped potential or "perf left on the table". These are the facts.

So yeah, world switching in R&C at the PS5 levels on PC would absolutely require RTX IO/DirectStorage and NVMe's help based on the above info from them.

PC didn't need compression like that. That's the difference, and it's been talked about several times now, where have you been ?!

You still don't understand the basics of game development, if you are spewing stuff you don't understand, as facts. You have no quotes, proof, etc to back up your claim. While on the other hand, we have hard, solid proof. Hence this thread for instance. How long did you personally peddle this whole, "PC can't run this demo!!" Only to be proven completely wrong.







Where's the proof of needing for upgraded I/O? Please provide links since you are so confidently wrong at this, that is actually funny as fuck to see you guys make all these claims out your ass. Especially after claiming b.s. about this engine. Who doubles down after being so wrong?

 

[Md Ray]

How long did you personally peddle this whole, "PC can't run this demo!!"

Never did that for this demo.

You have no quotes, proof, etc to back up your claim.

I have all the quotes, proof, etc of what I said about Insomniac's R&C in my previous post. Ask me and I'll provide.

 

[Loxus]

PC didn't need compression like that. That's the difference, and it's been talked about several times now, where have you been ?!

You still don't understand the basics of game development, if you are spewing stuff you don't understand, as facts. You have no quotes, proof, etc to back up your claim. While on the other hand, we have hard, solid proof. Hence this thread for instance. How long did you personally peddle this whole, "PC can't run this demo!!" Only to be proven completely wrong.







Where's the proof of needing for upgraded I/O? Please provide links since you are so confidently wrong at this, that is actually funny as fuck to see you guys make all these claims out your ass. Especially after claiming b.s. about this engine. Who doubles down after being so wrong?

You sound just like Linus before he understood the PS5 hardware.
I think you should watch this video before you post again.

 

[Md Ray]

You sound just like Linus before he understood the PS5 hardware.
I think you should watch this video before you post again.

He was on the verge of tears here.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

You sound just like Linus before he understood the PS5 hardware.
I think you should watch this video before you post again.

Do you or Md Ray have a list of games that can't run on PC, because DirectStorage isn't out? I keep asking this same question, and you guys just move the goal posts. So.... Names, links, quotes?

 

[Loxus]

Do you or Md Ray have a list of games that can't run on PC, because DirectStorage isn't out? I keep asking this same question, and you guys just move the goal posts. So.... Names, links, quotes?

PC had a hard time emulating PS3 games, so imagine a PS5 game fully utilizing the SSD.

 

[Md Ray]

Do you or Md Ray have a list of games that can't run on PC, because DirectStorage isn't out? I keep asking this same question, and you guys just move the goal posts. So.... Names, links, quotes?

R&C. The basic rendering side of things, definitely not an issue for a RT capable GPU on PC. The fast world switching you see here in the first 35 seconds:



Not possible without RTX IO/DirectStorage & NVMe. I've stated the reasons in the post #972 and those were straight from the devs such as the use of HW decompression, data being GPU ready while in storage, using all the memory for each level, etc.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

PC had a hard time emulating PS3 games, so imagine a PS5 game fully utilizing the SSD.

Ps5 can't even emulate them at all lol! You do realize the cell architecture exists, right???

R&C. The basic rendering side of things, definitely not an issue for a RT capable GPU on PC. The fast world switching you see here in the first 35 seconds:



Not possible without RTX IO/DirectStorage & NVMe. I've stated the reasons in my previous post and those were straight from the devs such as the use of HW decompression, data being GPU ready while in storage, using all the memory for each level, etc.

How is this not possible on PC? I'm waiting on proof. Like actually heard cold facts. Please tell me you at least have some factual proof, and not going on just your FEELINGS. PC didn't need super compression, which has been started before.

 

[PaintTinJr]

I opted to directly quote rather than paraphrase your position, because it was not 100% clear to me. However, my understanding of what you said was that Tempest together with the PS5's GPU could accelerate Lumen, such that "1400p30" rendering would be possible, instead of 1080p30. Feel free to correct me if I have misunderstood.

I think the misunderstanding is that the audio RT + the 3D audio simulation inference in my assumed speculation is zero cost, because it will be getting done in most UE5 games anyway - maybe the audio tracing uses some of the 36CUs and just the inference and simulation gets done on Tempest chip - so what I was really speculating about is whether the simulation is able to provide useful volumetric information about the scene before Lumen begins, to eliminate enough of the HW and SW RT redundant traces to facilitate the UE5 PS5 demo being so much more performant.

In going through this thought process, I now wonder if the PS5 UE5 demo even used HW RT, and actually just got such great results from the 1km mesh distance field setting and with Lumen's SW RT with a final gather setting at maybe a 2.

 

[Md Ray]

Ps5 can't even emulate them at all lol! You do realize the cell architecture exists, right???

How is this not possible on PC? I'm waiting on proof. Like actually heard cold facts. Please tell me you at least have some factual proof, and not going on just your FEELINGS. PC didn't need super compression, which has been started before.

The mere fact that RTX IO is being developed to offload decompression from CPU and DirectStorage is being planned to be pushed for PC is enough of a proof for you lol.

Read my #972 post again, nice and slow this time.

 

[Loxus]

Ps5 can't even emulate them at all lol! You do realize the cell architecture exists, right???

How is this not possible on PC? I'm waiting on proof. Like actually heard cold facts. Please tell me you at least have some factual proof, and not going on just your FEELINGS. PC didn't need super compression, which has been started before.

Exactly, so how do you expect a PC to run a PS5 coded game.
The SSD in the PS5 is built similar to the cell with specialized hardware that may never come to PC.

A 7.5 GB/s expandable pcie ssd still has to rely on the PS5 specialized hardware to reach that 22 GB/s decompression.

Watch this and gain some knowledge.

 

[Md Ray]

DonJuanSchlong

Here's another thing for you. The key to R&C's fast world switching is basically in bringing down load times dramatically from double digits to single digit.

Spider-Man which uses the same engine as R&C:

This is proof that R&C's world switching in 2 or so seconds would have taken almost 30 seconds on an HDD.

Now, I'd like you to show me a game on PC taking roughly 20-25 seconds with an HDD to load a save game and then taking 2 seconds when switched to an NVMe, in other words, I want you to show me an improvement of over -90% reduction in load time when switching from HDD to NVMe in a PC game.

If you can do that, and this is a challenge. If you can do that, then I'm wrong and it's proof that R&C's fast world switching can be done without RTX IO/DirectStorage, NVMe on PC.

I'll wait.

 

[Loxus]

DonJuanSchlong

Here's another thing for you. The key to R&C's fast world switching is basically in bringing down load times dramatically from double digits to single digit.

Spider-Man which uses the same engine as R&C:

This is proof that R&C's world switching in 2 or so seconds would have taken almost 30 seconds on an HDD.

Now, I'd like you to show me a game on PC taking roughly 20-25 seconds with a HDD to load a save game and then taking 2 seconds when switching to an NVMe, in other words, I want you to show me an improvement of over -90% reduction in load time when switching from HDD to NVMe in a PC game.

If you can do that, then I'm wrong and it's proof that R&C's fast world switching can be done without RTX IO/DirectStorage, NVMe on PC.

 

[ColdAfternoon]

Valley of the Ancient demo already does this without none of that nonesense.
LMFAO. without superfast SDD, DirectStorage and RTX IO.
Unloading and loading over 1 million assets, over 100 billion triangles in 4 seconds...wow!

Using the same train of thought I can do the same in unity on my integrated graphics laptop, beause you dont see those triangles at the same time, nor are they from unique assets.

 

[Corndog]

R&C. The basic rendering side of things, definitely not an issue for a RT capable GPU on PC. The fast world switching you see here in the first 35 seconds:



Not possible without RTX IO/DirectStorage & NVMe. I've stated the reasons in the post #972 and those were straight from the devs such as the use of HW decompression, data being GPU ready while in storage, using all the memory for each level, etc.

You don’t need to use all the memory on pc so this is totally possible to do all in ram. It would just have a large min spec for ram.

 

[Md Ray]

You don’t need to use all the memory on pc so this is totally possible to do all in ram. It would just have a large min spec for ram.

DonJuanSchlong

Here's another thing for you. The key to R&C's fast world switching is basically in bringing down load times dramatically from double digits to single digit.

Spider-Man which uses the same engine as R&C:

This is proof that R&C's world switching in 2 or so seconds would have taken almost 30 seconds on an HDD.

Now, I'd like you to show me a game on PC taking roughly 20-25 seconds with an HDD to load a save game and then taking 2 seconds when switched to an NVMe, in other words, I want you to show me an improvement of over -90% reduction in load time when switching from HDD to NVMe in a PC game.

If you can do that, and this is a challenge. If you can do that, then I'm wrong and it's proof that R&C's fast world switching can be done without RTX IO/DirectStorage, NVMe on PC.

I'll wait.

 

[Corndog]

The mere fact that RTX IO is being developed to offload decompression from CPU and DirectStorage is being planned to be pushed for PC is enough of a proof for you lol.

Read my #972 post again, nice and slow this time.

No it proves developers and hardware manufacturers know most people won’t have enough ram to load up entire areas.

I think you at also missing the point that no onethinks having faster io isn’t a good thing. It is. That’s why both console manufacturers embraced it. It makes things possible on a 500 dollar console with only 16 GB of ram and speeds up game loading times.

 

[Corndog]

You don’t need fast loading. You could use a tape drive. You just need enough ram. Ram is much faster then any drive. In this case near 100 times faster. Look at ps5 and Xbox bandwidth specs.

 

[Vognerful]

DonJuanSchlong

Here's another thing for you. The key to R&C's fast world switching is basically in bringing down load times dramatically from double digits to single digit.

Spider-Man which uses the same engine as R&C:

This is proof that R&C's world switching in 2 or so seconds would have taken almost 30 seconds on an HDD.

Now, I'd like you to show me a game on PC taking roughly 20-25 seconds with an HDD to load a save game and then taking 2 seconds when switched to an NVMe, in other words, I want you to show me an improvement of over -90% reduction in load time when switching from HDD to NVMe in a PC game.

If you can do that, and this is a challenge. If you can do that, then I'm wrong and it's proof that R&C's fast world switching can be done without RTX IO/DirectStorage, NVMe on PC.

I'll wait.

But, that was discussed in this thread all the time.

SSDs are reducing loading time significantly (even more when the game code is adjusted to take advantage of it). But the current discussion is :

1) Average SSDs are still strong enough to do 99% of the job without PS5 extreme speed in IO
2) after the first load, how many loading screen do you have in most open world games?

maybe you should direct the discussion in how it help providing better textures as you can load them faster from SSD (R&C character textures based on distance from character.)

 

[Md Ray]

You don’t need fast loading. You could use a tape drive. You just need enough ram. Ram is much faster then any drive. In this case near 100 times faster. Look at ps5 and Xbox bandwidth specs.

What is this impractical bullshit?
At some point the RAM will get filled and hit its limitation when moving through the game world. You need to dump the previous data and load new level/data extremely fast. No PCs have infinite RAM. And you NEED fast loading to fill up 100s of GB of RAM (assuming you've installed 128GB of RAM.

Filling 128GB, in theory, using a 7GB/s drive would take nearly 20 seconds. At this point, you absolutely need RTX IO like hardware-based decompression unit to keep up when transferring data at such speeds (5-7GB/s) because the conventional CPU cannot and will not.

Come back to reality.

 

[Md Ray]

But, that was discussed in this thread all the time.

SSDs are reducing loading time significantly (even more when the game code is adjusted to take advantage of it). But the current discussion is :

1) Average SSDs are still strong enough to do 99% of the job without PS5 extreme speed in IO
2) after the first load, how many loading screen do you have in most open world games?

maybe you should direct the discussion in how it help providing better textures as you can load them faster from SSD (R&C character textures based on distance from character.)

Are the SSDs (PCIe 4.0 NVMe) on PC reducing load time in the -90% realm consistently like the PS5 when switched from HDD?

The discussion I'm in is about R&C, because it was brought up. R&C's world switching depends on PS5's 5+ GB/s SSD, HW decompression, etc.

If you want to replicate what PS5 is doing - on PC - you would absolutely need a similar HW decompression solution like the RTX IO and DS to bring down load times to single digits, which is fundamentally the key to those instant level switching.

 

[Loxus]

You don’t need to use all the memory on pc so this is totally possible to do all in ram. It would just have a large min spec for ram.

The problem with that, system ram is still a lot slower that graphics memory.

Stuff is stored in system ram because fetching data from there is a lot faster than getting it from storage but still a lot slower than graphics memory.

Also, you can hold lots of game data in memory, but the speed of the CPU will still determine how rapidly that data can generate visible on-screen action and responses.

With the PS5, the decompression hardware does all the work to get stuff from storage to graphics memory blindingly fast. Faster than the CPU can fetch stuff from system ram in most cases.

 

[Vognerful]

Are the SSDs (PCIe 4.0 NVMe) on PC reducing load time in the -90% realm consistently like the PS5 when switched from HDD?

The discussion I'm in is about R&C, because it was brought up. R&C's world switching depends on PS5's 5+ GB/s SSD, HW decompression, etc.

If you want to replicate what PS5 is doing - on PC - you would absolutely need a similar HW decompression solution like the RTX IO and DS to bring down load times to single digits, which is fundamentally the key to those instant level switching.

it can if you recode the game to take full advantage of SSD, CPU decompression and other features. it is the same reason why not every game on PS5 loading is not shrunk that extremely (on other cases, even slower than XSX, or even PS$ with SSD).

 

[Vognerful]

If you want to replicate what PS5 is doing - on PC - you would absolutely need a similar HW decompression solution like the RTX IO and DS to bring down load times to single digits, which is fundamentally the key to those instant level switching.

Just a heads up, there are already games on PC with single digit loading time with the use of SSD. Once you recode the game to take advantage of it, you can even go further.

 

[Md Ray]

it can if you recode the game to take full advantage of SSD, CPU decompression and other features. it is the same reason why not every game on PS5 loading is not shrunk that extremely (on other cases, even slower than XSX, or even PS$ with SSD).

This "recode" is what DirectStorage is basically here for. To allow the software (games) to take full advantage of the SSD. Read up on it. At NVMe's speeds, according to NVIDIA it takes 24 cores of CPU for decompression. If decompression alone can take 10+ cores what do you think will be left for the game itself? What about those with 8 cores and 6 cores CPU, which is what most gaming PCs have or moving towards these days. This is why RTX IO was introduced. Please educate yourself on this matter, makes you look ignorant.

 

[Md Ray]

Just a heads up, there are already games on PC with single digit loading time with the use of SSD. Once you recode the game to take advantage of it, you can even go further.

I'm sure there are. Are there games that went from 20+ secs to 2 secs?

i.e. a reduction of -85-90% in load time (when going from HDD > NVMe).

Nope.

PS5 is already there.

This might be a hard pill to swallow for people like DonJuanSchlong , but it's the reality.

 

[Hoddi]

Not that I want to get into this silly argument but Doom Eternal loads in ~2s off my Intel 660p while reading 3.5GB from disk. Loading directly from RAM takes less than a second so I'm still somewhat limited by the 1.8GB/s drive. Loading from HDD then takes around 20s but it also spends another 30s streaming in additional data before coming to a stop.

It's also compressed using Kraken, interestingly enough.