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Digital Foundry's Alex on Project Eve's main female character: "old (2000's) and not flattering to a Modern Audience...in comparison to...Forespoken"

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Mister Wolf

Gold Member
Makes me laugh when people mention the word "sexist". The world is sexist. Dynamics between men and women has always been sexist and always will be. There are plenty of sexist privileges women benefit from in society and they arent going to give up any of that shit. As always its "remove the sexism that I dont benefit from".
 
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Whitecrow

Banned
I thought politics was banned? I don't know what's worse, era total woke or here anti woke. I just wanna talk about games! Is that too much to ask. If you don't like something don't buy it simple.
Honestly, I would ban every thread dedicated to collectively trash or attack someone. Woke or anti-woke.

This thread is an embarrasment here, and also in any other place that claims to be 'matture'.
 

betrayal

Banned
To me it's demeaning in the same way that a woman dancing nude for men in a strip club is demeaning, ie *obviously*. It's objectification: the treatment of a person as valuable only in their ability to titillate.

And that is exactly where you, like so many others, are wrong, because you ignore the context. Your way of thinking is based on false premises, which is why your conclusion and thus your presented facts are simply incorrect.

The strip club is about the attraction between man and woman. Both the dancer and the viewer know EXACTLY what they are getting into beforehand.

The paying spectator does not choose to go to the strip club to discuss feminism and the stripper does not dance or undress to argue about women's rights. It's all about objectification, sex and attraction (and money) - and both know and want it exactly that way.

It sounds strange at first, but studies and facts show that it is no coincidence that feminists (female and male) are demonstrably at the lower end of the scales for attractiveness and self-confidence. It is, like so many other things, that people perceive the strengths of others as an unfair threat, because dealing with their own reality would be much more painful and harder.
 

OmegaSupreme

advanced basic bitch
Honestly, I would ban every thread dedicated to collectively trash or attack someone. Woke or anti-woke.

This thread is an embarrasment here, and also in any other place that claims to be 'matture'.
Thank god we have true adults like yourself to tell us kids what's up. What would we do without you? Thank you for showing us the error of our ways!
 

Whitecrow

Banned
Thank god we have true adults like yourself to tell us kids what's up. What would we do without you? Thank you for showing us the error of our ways!
Laugh as much as you want. At the end of the day, you are free to not give a shit about being a decent human being.
If you want a banning spree, reset era exists. Not banning every little thing when someone gets offended is what makes this iteration of neogaf refreshing
This is not about someone being offended, is about being a grown up person who stands against public humiliation, that was a thing the past century.

You wanna mask it as 'not banning evey little thing'? Good for you. The truth is what it is regardless of the mask.

Is like trashing Era for it's cancel culture, while advocating for cancelling someone. You shoud go to Era. Not me.
 
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SkylineRKR

Member
Makes me laugh when people mention the word "sexist". The world is sexist. Dynamics between men and women has always been sexist and always will be. The are plenty of sexist privileges women benefit from in society and they arent going to give up any of that shit. As always its "remove the sexism that I dont benefit from".

Absolutely. When I used Tinder, and I think every male knows this, our options are severely limited. Only a handful of likes before you have to pay up or wait a day. Women however can go on as much as they like iirc. If this is about equality, then by all means unlock it for us too.

Its okay, I understand the mechanics. Its how the market works. There is more demand from our side, we have initiate and work for it. They can more often pick.
 

tkscz

Member
This is because she has bigger tits isn't it......when did modern men become so afraid of tits.
Project-EVE-2-scaled.jpg


Those aren't even big tits. Those are pretty average.
 

BbMajor7th

Member
I actually find this thread strangely educational, in that I'm being asked to deconstruct a position that I hold that's just so obvious to me that I probably haven't thought about it much for a while. It's kind of disconcerting to see so many people question how such imagery could be sexist when it just seems self-evident.

To me it's demeaning in the same way that a woman dancing nude for men in a strip club is demeaning, ie *obviously*. It's objectification: the treatment of a person as valuable only in their ability to titillate.

I'd thought that civilised people had accepted that a woman presented in a non-sexual context like this - a videogame character whose sex is irrelevant to her role in the game - should be depicted as much as possible as a rounded human being. Instead presenting her as something to be leered at just seems inherently disrespectful to women.

To me it's weird that anyone would question this.

Do you all, for example, reject the idea that the original Lara Croft character model, with her hot pants and gigantic pointy tits, is sexist? Isn't it just *obviously* so?

Sexy imagery is not, self-evidently sexist, and I think what Alex meant was that the character design isn't in-keeping with current western trends (see Control, HZD, TLOU II, Hellblade, Gears 5, Life is Strange, Tomb Raider and countless others). Whatever you think of that trend, he's very obviously right.

The issue is everyone thinking their vision of how certain individuals should be presented is the right one. You'll scarce find two women who agree on what the proper representation for a member of their gender is, let alone two men. Women in twentieth century media were historically presented in quite narrow and distinct terms, and women rightly got fed up with that. Not only this, the reality of those terms was even narrower: women were not only to be presented as attractive and desirable, but to presented as such in line with a specific beauty standards and accepted cultural norms.

It's a lack of variety which, for women, translates into a lack of opportunity in real terms. We don't look at an objectified man and say 'how disgusting' because we know that that is one of many different ways that men are described and understood - the fact that we sometimes see men presented as sex objects doesn't really factor into how we look at the whole gender, we can understand and accept both. Women don't get that; every representation of a woman affects the representation of all women. Too thin, too fat, too masculine, too feminine, too sexualised, too frumpy. It seems like almost every outspoken person on this subject is interested in telling women what they should and shouldn't be wearing (for the good of all women, quite often) or what they should and shouldn't be doing with their lives, as though there's some ideal standard.

I'd imagine what women really want, more than anything, is to choose for themselves and not be called ugly or frumpy for doing it one way or objectified and degraded for doing it another. I'd imagine what they really want to is to get on with their lives without people constantly interfering.
 

Mister Wolf

Gold Member
Absolutely. When I used Tinder, and I think every male knows this, our options are severely limited. Only a handful of likes before you have to pay up or wait a day. Women however can go on as much as they like iirc. If this is about equality, then by all means unlock it for us too.

Its okay, I understand the mechanics. Its how the market works. There is more demand from our side, we have initiate and work for it. They can more often pick.

And it is what it is. I understand what goes into being a man in the dating market and everything else including selective service. You only see one side really complaining about sexism and they've recruited plenty of sycophant men to champion their cause.
 
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NeoIkaruGAF

Gold Member
I'd feel embarrassed as fuck playing this and the wife walked in...
If something is deemed “offensive” against Asian women and one guy on Era says “My wife is Asian and she says she doesn’t care”, he gets banned for misogyny.

But when your wife walks in and sees you playing a game with a sexy girl, her cringe is a totally legit reaction and you’re a lucky guy to have her.

Funny how that works.
 
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OmegaSupreme

advanced basic bitch
Laugh as much as you want. At the end of the day, you are free to not give a shit about being a decent human being.

This is not about someone being offended, is about being a grown up person who stands against public humiliation, that was a thing the past century.

You wanna mask it as 'not banning evey little thing'? Good for you. The truth is what it is regardless of the mask.

Is like trashing Era for it's cancel culture, while advocating for cancelling someone. You shoud go to Era. Not me.
Now you're telling us we aren't decent human beings? For this? Nice. Fuck off your high horse.
 
I’ve been pretty much anti-censorship since I could form coherent enough personal opinions, so my take is people should be able to make whatever they want (as long as it’s not like CP or something). If people want to buy it cool, if they don’t that’s fine too.

People are allowed to criticize designs as well for whatever reason, but getting something cancelled or censored because you don’t like it is bullshit when you can simply just not buy/consume said thing you find distasteful.

I mean most guys complaining about female character designs are just doing it to signal to women that they’re “respectful” of them in a vain attempt to look more mature and dateable. Even if they tell themselves believe this stuff it’s really just a way to try and be more attractive to the opposite sex on a subconscious level.

And most girls complaining about female character designs are just insecure and don’t want people to enjoy things because of their own self-hatred/self-image problems. People from these two groups who go the extra step to try and censor things they don’t like are spiteful authoritarians who need to chill out. Discussions about stuff being distasteful is fine and good, but it shouldn’t be taken to the extreme of censorship.
 
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Shit like this just makes me want to purchase the game out of spite.

The world does not revolve around you and does not have to conform to your every wish.

There also is nothing wrong with the female body, male sexuality or sexualised female characters.

Funny how you never hear anyone complain about the male equivalent of this. Every Marvel movie has a shirtless man in it, yet nobody says anything, nor should they.

"Straight men are attracted to the female body, more at 11..."
 

betrayal

Banned
Project-EVE-2-scaled.jpg


Those aren't even big tits. Those are pretty average.
It's not even that. If some people would go out more often, they would learn that a lot of women are dressed much more revealing than this video game character. I could walk outside right now for just five minutes and see quite a few women like that. And I don't live in Las Vegas, but in a quiet small town.

This discussion, mostly led by people who always feel disadvantaged, completely misses the actual reality. But well, that's nothing new.
 

NeoIkaruGAF

Gold Member
I mean, exactly how outrageously sexualized would a female character have to get before you began to think, hmm, maybe that's a bit much?

What about a game where you play a female solider, and all the male soldiers are in normal fatigues but the woman is is bare-chested, wears a thong, and regularly bends over to expose her labia and anus? Might I be permitted to think that could be a bit sexist?

Or would that be another ridiculous take?
Such a design would be quite a far cry from the original Lara Croft, wouldn’t you think? Yet just a bit earlier you used Lara as an example of blatant sexualisation. So the question is: Where do you draw the line?

Too many people also forget that there were women working on the original Tomb Raider, and on God knows how many other games in history that featured sexy women. Have you heard these women complain that they’d make the character less sexualized? I don’t remember hearing that in the 90s.

For me, sexualization is excessive when it’s just stupid. Like what they did to the women in Soul Calibur after SC3. Piggy faces, tits that should bleed against attire that can barely contain them, every costume more revealing than the next. I hate what they did with that series, turning even the more modest woman fighter into a cheap whore.
A flash of panties here and there, though? That ain’t hurting anyone.

We’ve seen a lot of ridiculously gratuitous sexualization in games through the years, that’s a given. But the trailer being discussed here is so tame compared to some of the stuff we got only 10 years ago, to claim that it’s “not flattering to a modern audience” is blatant virtue signaling.
 

plushyp

Member
The design doesn’t fit in with the game and doesn’t look like a real person. The only reason to like it is just if you think it’s sexy. It’s fine if you do, but that doesn’t make it a good character design.
In a batshit insane world with monsters, crazy suits, ultra sci-fi environments etc.... lol
 

TheInfamousKira

Reseterror Resettler
Bet he was cheering on the Trans MMA fighter as he nearly killed his female opponent.

I fucking love Hyung-tae Kim. Sadly Men with their Dicks in chastity cages will mean the design is revised. All hail Project Abby.

Hey now, let's not kink shame here!

....

I mean, yeah, what he said!
 

SkylineRKR

Member
I’ve been pretty much anti-censorship since I could form coherent enough personal opinions, so my take is people should be able to make whatever they want (as long as it’s not like CP or something). If people want to buy it cool, if they don’t that’s fine too.

People are allowed to criticize designs as well for whatever reason, but getting something cancelled or censored because you don’t like it is bullshit when you can simply just not buy/consume said thing you find distasteful.

I mean most guys complaining about female character designs are just doing it to signal to women that they’re “respectful” of them in a vain attempt to look more mature and dateable. Even if they tell themselves they believe this stuff it’s really just a way to try and be more attractive to the opposite sex on a subconscious level.

And most girls complaining about female character designs are just insecure and don’t want people to enjoy things because of their own self-hatred/self-image problems. People from these two groups who go the extra step to try and censor things they don’t like are spiteful authoritarians who need to chill out. Discussions about stuff being distasteful is fine and good, but it shouldn’t be taken to the extreme of censorship.

This sums it up fairly well.

And to me those guys straight up show me that they don't know fuck about how it actually works/ their complete inexperience with it. The woman isn't going to pick the white knight, never. Friend zone at best. Ofcourse men and women alike come in all kinds of flavors but on average they will pick the more rude guy who isn't defending her so blatantly.

In fact a friend of me picks up women by first dismissing their clothing, asking some disrespectful as she forgot to put her pyjamas away or something and then walks away. She's shocked, but 3 out of 5 is going to bounce back and asks if he really means it.

Girls being insecure, well in my experience every single girl (no matter how good she looks, in my experience) is insecure at some level. And its what makes them attractive in the first place. I don't even feel comfortable around too secure women. But when my girlfriend is gasping over some fitness guys at the beach i'm not entirely happy either. I think this works both ways. However, I draw the line at a game character. She could play daddy Ryu or bare chested Jann Lee all day, I don't care.
 
Bet he was cheering on the Trans MMA fighter as he nearly killed his female opponent.

I fucking love Hyung-tae Kim. Sadly Men with their Dicks in chastity cages will mean the design is revised. All hail Project Abby.
Which match are you referring to? I watched one the other day. Just wondering if it's the same one.
 

Dorohedoro

Member
In this react, she says: "Eastern games have such beautiful women"


A lot of women simply want to play as pretty women. All the complaining is essentially coming from gay men wanting all of gaming to conform to their tastes of men and females that look like men and for some reason, Western gaming companies cater to that minority.

Here's another one:


"I really like her design"

They're clearly in the alt-right.
 

Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
I'm frankly grateful Asia (not only Japan, it seems) still exists for that classic gaming feel. Everyone here seems too scared to make a game with a protagonist that is not a cheeky, snarky, non-white 20-something girl. Right now, this is variety and diversity and not the other way around.
NuYcWUM.png
 

Boglin

Member
It's context, isn't it?

If you're just producing porn, or nude pictures or whatever, it's clear and understood that the only purpose is present an attractive woman or whatever. I don't think that's necessarily *sexist* as such, although it's probably always at least somewhat exploitative.

If, on the other hand, you're presenting a sex object where a real character ought to be - as a significant character in a movie, or a game or whatever - then the implication is that nothing else matters except her appearance, and we don't have to bother actually giving her a personality etc. It's basically dehumanisation of the subject, because she has feminine features that are interesting above all others, and that's enough; effectively, because she's a woman.

I don't think it's fair to say it would always be exploitive because that implies that women have some sort of claim over a straight man's sexuality even if the man is celebate and only fabricates woman completely within his own imagination. Unless you mean it's not exploitive when it's in his mind but only when he manifests it and other people can see it.


Correct me if I'm misunderstanding you, but the issue I have with saying they're presenting a sex object where a person ought to be is that it's completely subjective and it arbitrarily bars the creation of complex pornography, lest it be considered sexist. Why is there a line between an erotic character being significant and insignificant if it's all fantasy and their purpose is the same regardless? If a person can draw a character with the intention behind it to be erotic and not have it be considered sexist, then I think they should also be able to animate that picture or make a game around it as well.

Hypothetically, if the creators of Project Eve stated with explicit clarity and complete sincerity that the purpose of the game is to be extremely soft soft-core erotica, would you still have a problem with the game?

Btw, thanks for being so engaged with my questions.
 

Xenon

Member
Not a big fan of the design myself but not because I feel it's sexist. The proportions make her see more doll like than human. Also I get a little DOA2 vibe where it seems lit seems like the character is all 1 layer and they don't render the clothing seprately due to polygon limits.
 

tkscz

Member
It's not even that. If some people would go out more often, they would learn that a lot of women are dressed much more revealing than this video game character. I could walk outside right now for just five minutes and see quite a few women like that. And I don't live in Las Vegas, but in a quiet small town.

This discussion, mostly led by people who always feel disadvantaged, completely misses the actual reality. But well, that's nothing new.
It goes further than that, like I said in my previous post, the model doesn't look far off from a real Korean woman wearing make up. He's basically saying any current day Korean woman wearing make up looks like an outdated concept.
 

MikeM

Member
I am not sure why everyone is up in arms about this. Everyone is allowed to have an opinion even if it defers from yours/mine. He doesn't like it? That's cool. I personally don't care and think there is room for people of all shapes, genders etc so long as it fits the game type.

Matt Leblanc Reaction GIF
 

RJMacready73

Simps for Amouranth
Shit like this just makes me want to purchase the game out of spite.

The world does not revolve around you and does not have to conform to your every wish.

There also is nothing wrong with the female body, male sexuality or sexualised female characters.

Funny how you never hear anyone complain about the male equivalent of this. Every Marvel movie has a shirtless man in it, yet nobody says anything, nor should they.

"Straight men are attracted to the female body, more at 11..."
Who are you yelling at? Nobody is asking for anything to conform or change you're making up shit to get angry at, some people think it's cringe and a bit outdated, fuck me.. people have opinions, who would've thought.

Nobody said there's anything wrong with the female body, I sure as shit love it. So who has a problem with the female body? Oh you mean a problem with a digital avatar, again fucking opinion's man, everyone has one and I don't see anyone wanting this canceled or changed, fuck you can make it more revealing for all I give a shit, still won't change the fact that for some of is it's fucking cringe..
 

Hunnybun

Member
So all strippers ( women and men )are demeaning and shouldn’t be allowed to strip? We should abolish it because even though it’s not on any public media .. it offends you?

I mean I don’t like it … and I definitely am not teaching my daughter to be a stripper or demeaning to herself in anyway, quite the opposite. I am actually against games like this, but you are clearing attacking “ men “ as the reason / problem when it’s obviously the media and subcultures that have formed because of it. Have you ever watched a music video or listened to pop music int he last 10 years?

I'm not doing any of those things and I'm not gonna waste time responding to you if you're just gonna make wild leaps in logic like that.
 

Hunnybun

Member
And that is exactly where you, like so many others, are wrong, because you ignore the context. Your way of thinking is based on false premises, which is why your conclusion and thus your presented facts are simply incorrect.

The strip club is about the attraction between man and woman. Both the dancer and the viewer know EXACTLY what they are getting into beforehand.

The paying spectator does not choose to go to the strip club to discuss feminism and the stripper does not dance or undress to argue about women's rights. It's all about objectification, sex and attraction (and money) - and both know and want it exactly that way.

It sounds strange at first, but studies and facts show that it is no coincidence that feminists (female and male) are demonstrably at the lower end of the scales for attractiveness and self-confidence. It is, like so many other things, that people perceive the strengths of others as an unfair threat, because dealing with their own reality would be much more painful and harder.

Blah blah blah, non sequitur and ad hominem, the first refuge of the logically impaired.

Another waste of time.
 

Xenon

Member
I am not sure why everyone is up in arms about this. Everyone is allowed to have an opinion even if it defers from yours/mine. He doesn't like it? That's cool. I personally don't care and think there is room for people of all shapes, genders etc so long as it fits the game type.

Matt Leblanc Reaction GIF


He definitely didn't seem to be speaking down to people.
 
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