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Cringe Digital Foundry's Alex on Project Eve's main female character: "old (2000's) and not flattering to a Modern Audience...in comparison to...Forespoken"

Feb 27, 2021
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I find jiggle physics funny and not erotic as well. Are jello t&a supposed to be erotic? It looks absurd. I think that is the intent of devs doing that kind of stuff. Its funny people complain about adult women in skin tight clothes but never seem to be much uproar about the ones with kids with skin tight clothes even more erotic than this. We have games with nudity with young girls(not adult) but barely anyone complains about it. Does this game get the brunt of the push back because it is a relatively indie title? I remember even Bayonetta getting praise for the sexual nature of the character because it promotes female sexuality in a positive way or something.
 
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Fredrik

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This modern design stuff is bullshit.

Thousands of women are sexualizing themselves across social media, but somehow a "sexualized" female character in a video game is going too far? :messenger_tears_of_joy:
Lol exactly.
Something something "they (real women) have agency" and "game characters have no agency", so that makes it ok in the case of the former example. Yet if all game characters don't have any agency, why is this a big deal to begin with? And how does this even compare and connect to real world women in the first place?

Don't expect either logic or consistency from the people who advocate such things.
I’ve seen this talk before, and to me it’s kinda hilarious and clashes in a big way with what we do in 99% of the games today - Kill stuff.

Game characters are never treated as real and living when it’s about killing, doing headshot, chopping head, slicing throats, etc.

Then it’s just polygons, so everything is okay and we should stop gaming if we can’t separate gaming fiction from real life.

But when the game character is a sexy woman something happens… somehow they come to life and is so so real like omg you wouldn’t believe how real they are, and we have to think about how realistic their looks are, how they would feel to do the stuff we tell them to do, how likely it is that they would want to wear the clothes we tell them to wear, etc. Of course we do. And we’re all filthy pigs for just sitting there pressing a button forcing her to do her sexy moves. Shame on us all!

Why not stay on track? Why not just say it’s not real? It’s polygons?

And if by some miracle game characters are somehow coming alive in games in 2021 when the coder press compile - then who cares about jiggling buttocks? why are we not offended by how we’re just going about brutally killing everything we see?
 
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keram

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"Western gaming industry thinking" .... O RLY?
Looks almost like an Anime char :messenger_grinning_sweat:
 

betrayal

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Blah blah blah, non sequitur and ad hominem, the first refuge of the logically impaired.

Another waste of time.

It takes quite a bit of narcissism to dictate what other people are allowed to feel.

If you really have problems with free expression of will and its practical implementation, then I don't even want to know what kind of strange life you lead.

The fact that you do not respond to my post at all only confirms that you value your intolerance more than facts.
 
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Feb 13, 2019
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I can understand people complain about a character not fitting the rest of a game, but are we really living in a time, where video game characters are not allowed to be sexy anymore?
The main target audience of most games are still men and that will not change, because men and women have different tastes and that is a good thing. If my wife would like the same stuff like me, I am sure I would enjoy life less.
I am also not getting the recent push for more girls in the video game industry. Why do we have to push women to play or make games if their main interests are perhaps different? Tastes between men and women will never change, because they are different. Which is a good thing and don't have to be changed.
If someone thinks a character is too sexy or too cute for them to enjoy the game, just don't play the game. But that doesn't mean every character in video games must be less sexy and preferably of color?

Sorry, but the whole thing makes me mad exactly like the fact that a movie with a diverse cast gets higher chances of winning an oscar? A movie (or game) should solely be judged based on their quality and not on how many checkboxes they can fit.
 

Spaceman292

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Ofcourse the Anime Avatars are already furious about his opinion.

Personally: I think he has a point. There's a clear difference between sexy and oversexualization and a lot of camera angles clearly served no purpose other than to do just that. Its even more ridiculous in the announcement trailer:
This game looks janky as hell and probably will never come out anyway.
 

Rayven_king

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I always find it funny that most of the people who complain about these designs are Male gamers. There is this idea that women in general have issues with such designs, but the fact is most do not give a crap. Not once in my life in the real world have I ever heard a woman whine about sexy character designs in video games. Its always this small section of whiners on the internet who are complaining.
This right here, my girlfriend at the time loved the DOA games she'd walk in mid game with comments like "oooh I love the pink hair", "oh she thicc thick I wish I had that outfit" she spent more time messing about with the extra costumes than actually playing, never heard a peep about objectification.🤷‍♂️
 

SegaSnatcher

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This right here, my girlfriend at the time loved the DOA games she'd walk in mid game with comments like "oooh I love the pink hair", "oh she thicc thick I wish I had that outfit" she spent more time messing about with the extra costumes than actually playing, never heard a peep about objectification.🤷‍♂️

Yeah, somehow people forgot women in the real world actually like female game characters that strongly express feminine traits. We can take this all the way back to the 90s. Lara Croft wasn't only admired by male gamers, she was a big hit with female gamers as well.
 

kanjobazooie

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I swear these people are acting as if the Project Eve woman was doing this in the trailer. 👇



I don't care about the game and will never play it, but I really can't understand why they're mad when there are other games that have more "objectifying" shit.

I'm actually surprised that so far Project Eve didn't show an intent to include one of these "funny" anime scenes like when a male character inappropriately touches a woman's breast. The trailer implied that the game is somewhat serious.
I'm pretty sure Xenoblade had one of these stupid scenes.
 

Boglin

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But when the game character is a sexy woman something happens… somehow they come to life and is so so real like omg you wouldn’t believe how real they are, and we have to think about how realistic their looks are, how they would feel to do the stuff we tell them to do, how likely it is that they would want to wear the clothes we tell them to wear, etc.

This is an interesting contrast. A game can have nothing but nameless grunts to mow down or instead it can spend a long time fleshing out villains to make them as human as possible. These characters are created with the expectation that people will kill them and most of the time the players will want to kill them. Yet most people know they are easily able to compartmentalize killing a video game character vs killing a real human being and know they aren't dehumanizing people. We know these characters were never human in the first place and were created precisely for the purpose of being "killed".

It's seems strange to me that a portion of the population can compartmentalize violence against characters but they are unable to do the same with sexual content.

I can totally understand someone thinking it's juvenile, tasteless, embarrassing or whatever in the same manner people do with violent content due to subjective tastes. But I'm having a very difficult time wrapping my mind around the thought process that leads some people to believe that sexy characters are an affront to real women.
 

Fredrik

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It's seems strange to me that a portion of the population can compartmentalize violence against characters but they are unable to do the same with sexual content.
Perfect summary, thank you 🤝

This right here, my girlfriend at the time loved the DOA games she'd walk in mid game with comments like "oooh I love the pink hair", "oh she thicc thick I wish I had that outfit" she spent more time messing about with the extra costumes than actually playing, never heard a peep about objectification.🤷‍♂️
heh yeah women and men really aren’t wired the same way. Here’s how it went down here for Project Eve:

Wife: ”It really shows that this is an asian developed game…
Me: … *okay here it comes*
Wife: ”…because she’s got so long legs.
Me: ???

I’m sure there are those who hate the design but I for one think it’s a minority. Even if it’s a sexy design it’s still a pretty and badass female character, lots of people will think that’s a plus I think.
 
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Yeah, somehow people forgot women in the real world actually like female game characters that strongly express feminine traits. We can take this all the way back to the 90s. Lara Croft wasn't only admired by male gamers, she was a big hit with female gamers as well.

I agree. I mean seriously would most men like playing God of War as some neck beard, pot bellied, soy boy... as opposed to Kratos. I sure as hell wouldn't. I swear some people forget that gaming for a lot of people is fantasy and putting yourself in a role you never could fill in real life. If I want a dose of the shitty real world I'll just watch the news and consider blowing my brains out afterwards.
 
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Hayabusabruh

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I think her design is great. Not sure about unrealistic body, cause I see a lot of chicks shaped like that, and that's just at my work. lol. My only concern about the girl, is that she seems to lack personality. There are Bayonetta comparisons, but she seems to be so lifeless.
 

dcll

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Pathetic excuses of men people like this. A majority of these fucking dweebs are so desperate to get any kind of positive attention from women they will do shit like this to project and show how awesome and supportive they are. Women don’t like fucking spineless weasels like you and others of your type
 
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ToTTenTranz

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Alex is obviously entitled to his opinion. My only problem with his opinion though is the fact that he declares the Forspoken MC as a model to follow.








I'm fine with both Forspoken and Project Eve. Why exactly is Forspoken good and Project Eve bad again?
Is it because the former is using so many layers of clothes that you can't even tell a single body curve from it (from earlier trailers I couldn't tell the MC's gender BTW)?
Are "Modern Western Values" for female videogame character clothing the same values as those in the Sharia law? We're now supposed to shun female characters that show curves?

Also, what's wrong with Project Eve MC's proportions again? Those aren't particularly large breasts nor particularly large buttocks. The legs are long but honestly not that long considering she has high heels. I've seen hotter bodies live at the beach, and longer legs in fashion shows.
 

Spaceman292

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Yes because the CEO of the studio got 260 PS5s to give 1 to each employee so they all could play a game that will never come out. :D
Of course. So all I have to do is buy 300 playstations and all my wishes and dreams are guaranteed to come true.
 
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Aenima

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Of course. So all I have to do is buy 300 playstations and all my wishes and dreams are guaranteed to come true.
The trailer u quoted was from 2019 the game seems already very far in development from what was shown in the Playstation Showcase trailer. If dont come out next year it will come out in 2023.

In case u missed it, might take a look at the new trailer.

 
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Spaceman292

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The trailer u quoted was from 2019 the game seems already very far in development from what was shown in the Playstation Showcase trailer. If dont come out next year it will come out in 2023.

In case u missed it, might take a look at the new trailer.

It just seems like there have been a lot of overly ambitious Korean or Chinese games shown off with 'Project' in the title and they never actually come out
 

JoeBudden

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Nah, he's definitely right about the character being distracting, but that's because of her outfit and all the pervy slow motion close up shots of her ass. She doesn't look like she belongs in this post apocalyptic alien invaded world at all.

Her body is actually pretty normal, and not overly sexualized like Soul Calibur games. It's just the outfit is really revealing.
 

DeepEnigma

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Something something "they (real women) have agency" and "game characters have no agency", so that makes it ok in the case of the former example. Yet if all game characters don't have any agency, why is this a big deal to begin with? And how does this even compare and connect to real world women in the first place?

Don't expect either logic or consistency from the people who advocate such things.
Because these people are a bunch of empty vessels being programmed on the daily. I.e., robots in the matrix. So they can relate.
 

gioGAF

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The problem is not that these people don't like the character, the problem is they don't like it and they think you shouldn't like it either. The problem with the woke mob is that they have appointed themselves the ultimate arbiters. Project Eve is bad and shouldn't exist, they will try to exert pressure on the company behind the game to derail it. They approve of Forspoken = stunning and brave.

Most companies are either run by cowards or people who are neck deep in worse shit and don't want any undue attention, so they cave in. The story of the world corporate landscape. Here is some money for your cause, now leave us alone so we can continue exploiting whoever we want to make more money.
 

p_xavier

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I can understand people complain about a character not fitting the rest of a game, but are we really living in a time, where video game characters are not allowed to be sexy anymore?
The main target audience of most games are still men and that will not change, because men and women have different tastes and that is a good thing. If my wife would like the same stuff like me, I am sure I would enjoy life less.
I am also not getting the recent push for more girls in the video game industry. Why do we have to push women to play or make games if their main interests are perhaps different? Tastes between men and women will never change, because they are different. Which is a good thing and don't have to be changed.
If someone thinks a character is too sexy or too cute for them to enjoy the game, just don't play the game. But that doesn't mean every character in video games must be less sexy and preferably of color?

Sorry, but the whole thing makes me mad exactly like the fact that a movie with a diverse cast gets higher chances of winning an oscar? A movie (or game) should solely be judged based on their quality and not on how many checkboxes they can fit.
The wokes don't believe that. The ones pushing for that "diversity" agenda. Hence why equality is becoming equity. Your game is sexist if 50% of gamers are not women, because population is 50% women.
 
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Senhua

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I'm fine with both Forspoken and Project Eve. Why exactly is Forspoken good and Project Eve bad again?
Is it because the former is using so many layers of clothes that you can't even tell a single body curve from it (from earlier trailers I couldn't tell the MC's gender BTW)?
Are "Modern Western Values" for female videogame character clothing the same values as those in the Sharia law? We're now supposed to shun female characters that show curves?

Also, what's wrong with Project Eve MC's proportions again? Those aren't particularly large breasts nor particularly large buttocks. The legs are long but honestly not that long considering she has high heels. I've seen hotter bodies live at the beach, and longer legs in fashion shows.
I think it's fine if he just stated "Forspoken MC is more of my (western) audience tastes rather than P. Eve which I find more ugly" though personally I find the exact opposite of that but whatever float his boat.

The problem came with his "not flattering to a modern audience" which is sound strange because that kind of beauty (P. Eve) still popular with modern audience in East Asia so.... yeah that kind of sound a bit of wrong for me.
 

Panajev2001a

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I think it's fine if he just stated "Forspoken MC is more of my (western) audience tastes rather than P. Eve which I find more ugly" though personally I find the exact opposite of that but whatever float his boat.

The problem came with his "not flattering to a modern audience" which is sound strange because that kind of beauty (P. Eve) still popular with modern audience in East Asia so.... yeah that kind of sound a bit of wrong for me.
Modern Audiences anywhere but the awoken part of the west are at best uncivilised savages that need to be taught better for their own good evidently… 🤷‍♂️ (that seems to be the core of the spiel and the cognitive dissonance when this is said by the same people who decry colonialism/imperialism… well…)..
 
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Blah blah blah, non sequitur and ad hominem, the first refuge of the logically impaired.

Another waste of time.

For someone who's so galaxy brained, you sure do like to call out logical fallacies while presenting some of the worst examples of sophistry in this thread.

It's kind of disconcerting to see so many people question how such imagery could be sexist when it just seems self-evident.
To me it's demeaning in the same way that a woman dancing nude for men in a strip club is demeaning, ie *obviously*
To me it's weird that anyone would question this.
Isn't it just *obviously* so?

Horrendous "it is because it is" circular reasoning.

I actually find this thread strangely educational, in that I'm being asked to deconstruct a position that I hold that's just so obvious to me that I probably haven't thought about it much for a while.

"Oh no, how dare people ask me to actually argue my position properly!" Fuck off.
 
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Claus Grimhildyr

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Something else I'd like to add:
'Not flattering to a modern audience'

No, Alex. Not flattering to a PARTICULAR GROUP of the modern audience. Unlike what you'd like to believe, not everyone shares your (group's) views.
This Alex guy seems like a mentally ill weasel.

Blah blah blah, non sequitur and ad hominem, the first refuge of the logically impaired.

Another waste of time.

This shit isn't ResetEra where you can hide behind your own ignorance. Discuss or don't post at all.
 
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CGiRanger

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Sexy is problematic!

The ones that get me are where it's often followed up by "The Proportions are just Unrealistic!" or "Real Women do not have bodies like that!". I mean, while it's certainly true that there are many out-or-proportion characters in games with exaggerated "assets", there are times (like in this case) where the reaction against it is so over-the-top and targeted towards characters that are nowhere near "out of proportion"

I mean, this seems real to me...
 

MasterDerico

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Ok let's finish this quick;

He was offended with TLOU2 sex scene, of course not.

They live in a bubble where they make the rules, if you don't accept it, you're wrong, because you have to think like them.

Are WE really the dictators? These people are sick, lack of reading, lack of culture. Dividing people into bubbles and groups only brings disgrace to humanity. They started canceling the others who disagreed with them, now they cancel each other, and then they decided that canceling is not a good idea.

They are sick people, most in need of psychiatric treatment.

Art ceases to be art when people come to censor and set rules. You have age ratings to use, everyone can be happy and let them have the right to express themselves in art form. If the guy wanted that character, it's his creation.

You always have two choices: drink the wine or not.
Just don't make me swallow false morals. Bunch of "home office warriors" without anything to do.

They do the opposite of what they preach.
 

SegaSnatcher

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I agree. I mean seriously would most men like playing God of War as some neck beard, pot bellied, soy boy... as opposed to Kratos. I sure as hell wouldn't. I swear some people forget that gaming for a lot of people is fantasy and putting yourself in a role you never could fill in real life. If I want a dose of the shitty real world I'll just watch the news and consider blowing my brains out afterwards.

I guess fantasy worlds are toxic now. People don't want to control characters who actually look like they can do the things they do in the game. We need more characters that represent what the average American looks like and can actually physically do. Looking forward to the next game called "My trip to Walmart and how I survived."
 

RafterXL

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I always find it funny that most of the people who complain about these designs are Male gamers. There is this idea that women in general have issues with such designs, but the fact is most do not give a crap. Not once in my life in the real world have I ever heard a woman whine about sexy character designs in video games. Its always this small section of whiners on the internet who are complaining.
I always love the juxtaposition of the internet and real world, because they aren't remotely similar things. In the real world, normal people, both male and female, don't give this shit a second thought. On Twitter, or other mentally I'll safe spaces like that other forum, people turn these non-issue into full blown controversies. We all know these are a minority of the population, they just screech the loudest.

I don't know if this dude really believes what he says, or is just pandering to an audience he knows will lap this shit up, either way he's a tool. The comparison to Forspoken was just hilarious because if that character were white he'd be bitching about how they made her look like a model instead of a "real woman" but because she's black it's ok that's she's super attractive. Honestly, if you flipped these characters outfits, the same people crying "sexist" would be screeching "representation" and "diversity".

I also gotta laugh at the "hyper porportions" comment he made, because this character is average proportions for just about any non-fatty woman or dude taking estrogen, which is probably all he knows.
 
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Still getting both games but I find it odd that a (gay?) man is speaking for modern audiences? Like who made him the authority on anything? Stick to your frame rate and pixel counting scrub.
 
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azertydu91

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Perfect summary, thank you 🤝


heh yeah women and men really aren’t wired the same way. Here’s how it went down here for Project Eve:

Wife: ”It really shows that this is an asian developed game…
Me: … *okay here it comes*
Wife: ”…because she’s got so long legs.
Me: ???

I’m sure there are those who hate the design but I for one think it’s a minority. Even if it’s a sexy design it’s still a pretty and badass female character, lots of people will think that’s a plus I think.
Yep I watched it with my girlfriend and she just told me that the game looks cool.And most of the girls I know that play games absolutely don't care but they love it when a woman is badass no matter how she looks.
Except for one that absolutely wants women to be sexy in games (she is bisexual) and she often said "if I have to look at the back of a character the whole game give it at least a sexy ass".
But I got to admit I don't have a lot of sjw friends so that may explain why I haven't encountered such "alex" behaviours.
 

azertydu91

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Ok let's finish this quick;

He was offended with TLOU2 sex scene, of course not.

They live in a bubble where they make the rules, if you don't accept it, you're wrong, because you have to think like them.

Are WE really the dictators? These people are sick, lack of reading, lack of culture. Dividing people into bubbles and groups only brings disgrace to humanity. They started canceling the others who disagreed with them, now they cancel each other, and then they decided that canceling is not a good idea.

They are sick people, most in need of psychiatric treatment.

Art ceases to be art when people come to censor and set rules. You have age ratings to use, everyone can be happy and let them have the right to express themselves in art form. If the guy wanted that character, it's his creation.

You always have two choices: drink the wine or not.
Just don't make me swallow false morals. Bunch of "home office warriors" without anything to do.

They do the opposite of what they preach.
Well he's the one that called himself dicktator on ree, so no surprise there.It speaks volme of his openness to different opinions, try to oppose him on ree to get a good picture you get dogpile even when you quote him being wrong.That's the open gaming forum for you direct quote and facts don't matter in front of feelings.
 
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