Support NeoGAF

[ScrapBrain]

I can't speak to the legacy of the franchise, I was a genesis kid growing up, and truthfully I've never liked racing games that much; I always thought they were kind of boring and uninspired (I remember trying to like outrun in the arcade and I played it for it's rockin' tunes when a friend wanted to, and the 'DAYTONAAAAAAAAA' scream from 'Let's Go Away' on Daytona USA for the Saturn is forever burned into my brain, but the majority of racing games were outright skipped in my personal experience). But I remember being gifted F-Zero GX and being absolutely blown away with how absolutely bonkers it was. It was in-your-face, looked visually amazing with lots of bright colors and effects, crazy and interesting characters, and was easy to understand in terms of it's basic mechanics... it was fast and if you could keep up, you were usually in pretty good shape. The game could also be punishing and difficult at times, but it was still a blast to play and managed to keep me engaged.

It was my first entry into the series and that's why it is special for me. I've tried to go back and play the other games, but they just don't scratch that itch for me, they don't have that 'special sauce' that makes me want to play for extended periods of time. Not hoping to change any minds here, just wanted to offer a perspective from someone that doesn't play racing games consistently

 

[RAIDEN1]

What's Nintendo playing at not reviving this franchise or at least making a HD reboot....

 

[ThatOneMexican]

Hell no! Gx is better

 

[KINGMOKU]

X controlled better and the attacks were a hell of a lot more useful and substantial. I played both games to death and I firmly believe if GX controlled as well as X it would have been no where near as difficult as it is. GX is just TORTURE at times.

I also chalk this up to Nintendo developing one game, and Sega developing the other. Nintendo has always been know for super right gameplay and the differences here become obvious the more you play both games.

Don't get me wrong, I love both games. Just X wins due to tighter gameplay.

On a different note, I actually preferred blue storm over the original wave race.

 

[alken]

.

 

[Jezan]

X has rubberband in normal races, GX only in story mode. GX wins.

 

[nkarafo]

MEGA-BUMP
(NeoGAF lifted e-mail restrictions, so I was finally able to register.)

Hey, i remember this thread of mine (i just edited a typo in it, lol). Thanks for bumping it and nice post as well. You also mentioned some good points i missed. Like how much better the speed building boost feels in X.

I only disagree about the controls with modern controllers. Even the Gamecube controller doesn't feel right because it's shoulder triggers are analog. You need "clicky" digital shoulders in X for the bump attacks to be instant. The analog ones are not as responsive and they don't feel right. Thus, it'a better to emulate so you can use a 360 controller and use the digital shoulders.

 

[ZAMtendo]

Totally agree - Death Race alone is reason enough.

 

[Terrible_Majesty]

I played both. For hundreds of hours. Possibly over a thousand.
I was even ranked first place in Canada for some tracks on AX on the official AX website. I played under the names MERKABAH and Chariot7.

The debate is whether AX is better than GX. There is something you cannot replicate about the moving arcade machine. X isn’t even close in my book. My only argument is that GX wouldn’t exist without X. It was a necessary stepping stone. But similarly, Mario kart 7 -> 8 is a similar but not exact argument.

You have Sega’s arcade division at their peak in the arcade racing game. Nintendo at their peak in the graphics and gameplay before all this Blue Ocean we don’t compete in the hardware red ocean arms race. GX is simply perfection and will not be replicated ever again. Unless it’s an HD remake.

 

[Petrae]

All I can say is that X had a better difficulty curve on the single player. GX is pretty much unplayable - it’s like trying to climb a 90 degree vertical cliff.

So much this. It’s too bad, because GX looks great— but it just isn’t F-Zero. It’s someone else’s interpretation of F-Zero, and it’s missing the smoother learning curve and accessibility of Nintendo’s games.

I also strongly prefer the guitar-driven soundtrack of X to the techno stuff that GX offers.

 

[Ryu Hayabusa]

Personally speaking I think F-Zero GX destroys F-Zero X in every area except music which is no where near as good. I'm surprised to see someone defending F-Zero X not bring up the X-Cup, that's like the coolest feature of the game. Hell if you were lucky enough to own an N64 DD with the F-Zero X Expansion Kit, you could even make your own crazy tracks.

I agree with you

 

[Omegatron]

One thing I've always had a problem with in all F-Zero games is that the stats on the machines doesn't line up most of the time.

If a machine had an "A" rank in boost for example, it might actually have had a "C" rank in boost after people did some testing comparing all the machines to one another.

If they ever do make another F-Zero game then this is an aspect of the franchise I wish that they'd look over, since it tricks you into thinking that the machine you're using it the best one suited for you, when in reality a machine whose stats didn't speak to you (Like having a "D" rank in grip for example) actually had the perfect controls you wanted.

Also I don't know why, but I love the announcer for X more than GX, even though the X announcer sounds like he's drowning. Hearing "You've got boost power!" in X makes me far more hyped than hearing the same sentence in GX.

Maybe it's because I grew up listening to metal music, so things like pitch perfect audio recordings isn't really something I have cared too much about, since the quality on some of the bands I've heard over the years have been far from great.

 

[Electric-Wizard]

Hey, i remember this thread of mine (i just edited a typo in it, lol). Thanks for bumping it and nice post as well. You also mentioned some good points i missed. Like how much better the speed building boost feels in X.

I only disagree about the controls with modern controllers. Even the Gamecube controller doesn't feel right because it's shoulder triggers are analog. You need "clicky" digital shoulders in X for the bump attacks to be instant. The analog ones are not as responsive and they don't feel right. Thus, it'a better to emulate so you can use a 360 controller and use the digital shoulders.

Thanks and welcome my man.
You're right, X with Gamecube controller shoulder buttons doesn't work well.

One thing I've always had a problem with in all F-Zero games is that the stats on the machines doesn't line up most of the time.

If a machine had an "A" rank in boost for example, it might actually have had a "C" rank in boost after people did some testing comparing all the machines to one another.

If they ever do make another F-Zero game then this is an aspect of the franchise I wish that they'd look over, since it tricks you into thinking that the machine you're using it the best one suited for you, when in reality a machine whose stats didn't speak to you (Like having a "D" rank in grip for example) actually had the perfect controls you wanted.

Also I don't know why, but I love the announcer for X more than GX, even though the X announcer sounds like he's drowning. Hearing "You've got boost power!" in X makes me far more hyped than hearing the same sentence in GX.

Maybe it's because I grew up listening to metal music, so things like pitch perfect audio recordings isn't really something I have cared too much about, since the quality on some of the bands I've heard over the years have been far from great.

They have some detailed documentation on GX ships over at F-Zero Central. Don't think misleading ranks were an issue in X. GX is more complex in that regard, with parts and custom ships.

 

[Electric-Wizard]

All I can say is that X had a better difficulty curve on the single player. GX is pretty much unplayable - it’s like trying to climb a 90 degree vertical cliff.

You can still progress through the cups, gradually upping the difficulty. I do think GX is harder, because it is more out-of-control. And of course story mode is harsh, too harsh imo. Some missions more than others. You need a lot of perseverity and skill to complete those.

That's one thing I like about F-Zero. You can keep playing and improving over time. It has such deep level of mastery. Was really satisfying for me to get sliding down in X. And more recently, I went back to GX and beat all staff ghosts. Just going at it track by track, shaving seconds off of my times until staff ghost came within reach (which I wouldn't have always deemed possible at the start).

Don't forget to calibrate the analog stick to max reach in GX. Default sensitivity makes it harder.

(sry can't edit this into my previous post anymore)

 

[boutrosinit]

I adore this game. Nagoshi's take on it blew me away. I did not put in the time and dedication needed to master the three kinds of turn. Such a deep, hardcore game. And completely adore the music.

I would expect a game of this calibre to be celebrated in E-Sports circles, and am disappointed we are yet to see an E-Sports league around F-Zero GX.

 

[Kai Ozu]

Wrong.

 

[deriks]

Is kinda unfair to compare, but GX is not even the best F-Zero, but a better racing game overral.

 

[Shoogoo]

GX is better imho

 

[Electric-Wizard]

I adore this game. Nagoshi's take on it blew me away. I did not put in the time and dedication needed to master the three kinds of turn. Such a deep, hardcore game. And completely adore the music.

I would expect a game of this calibre to be celebrated in E-Sports circles, and am disappointed we are yet to see an E-Sports league around F-Zero GX.

Glad someone mentioned it. I think F-Zero and E-Sports are a match made in heaven. Already had the idea of 2-player racing teams, where the co-pilot could look around using the gamepad for possible incoming side/spin attacks, but of course a Wii U F-Zero never happened.

The thing with racing as a spectator sport is, it's very easy to understand. DOTA, I don't know what the heck is going on, unless I'm willing to learn to understand the game (which I'm not). Same with Starcraft. If you haven't played it, it's gonna take time to learn and appreciate. But everyone understands racing and it doesn't take long to learn the particulars of F-Zero.

The big racing franchises (GT Sport, Forza 7, Project Cars 2) are pushing online competitive racing, so I think if Nintendo is ever to bring F-Zero back, now's the time. They are sitting on gold. It's like they're holding the joker card in their hands and they're not playing it. The excuse is that futuristic racing is a niche genre, but once you experience F-Zero, you know it's something special. It's exciting, deep skill, unique. They just need to market it, be ambitious about it, do an E-Sports league. Smash and Splatoon did wonders for them.

---

A little something to illustrate the importance of a clear view and how the devil is in the details:

I have Need for Speed Most Wanted on Wii U. It's a modern racing game with HD visuals and lots of scenery, yet it's not always clear to me where I need to go in the road ahead. Coupled with this, there are lots of obstacles that put you pretty much to a dead standstill if you collide with them and the fact that the controls suffer from input delay (car doesn't react immediately upon input, but takes a moment to do so). Result: frustration in what otherwise would have been a decent racing title.

Btw I also had a Need for Speed game on PS3, but that one stuttered frequently enough to really bother me. A big budget, fully-priced game should have kinks like that ironed out before release.

 

[Pachi72]

Why hasn't Nintendo ported GX to Switch yet?

 

[Yagami_Sama]

Both are great games, but the GX is in another level. I was so impressed when I play it for the first time, and even today I still boot the game on my Game Cube and always have some good things to say about the game.

But I understand your points, and agree with you on the matter of the attack button.

 

[woopWOOP]

Only after typing this up I realized this thread is 5 years old, lol. Still:

X wins for me just because of the X-cup.
It's no level editor (I would've loooved the 64DD editor mode), but being able to race on something weird and new every time with 4-players was a lot of fun. Especially when the course had some sort of ramp followed by a quick turn and everyone just died immediately.

 

[VectorVictor]

I really hope this thread was bumped because someone's trying to drop a hint about tomorrow's Nintendo Direct.

 

[Electric-Wizard]

Guys, this year is F-Zero X's 20th anniversary. 20 years old, still plays as good as ever.

Only after typing this up I realized this thread is 5 years old, lol. Still:

X wins for me just because of the X-cup.
It's no level editor (I would've loooved the 64DD editor mode), but being able to race on something weird and new every time with 4-players was a lot of fun. Especially when the course had some sort of ramp followed by a quick turn and everyone just died immediately.

Good times.

I really hope this thread was bumped because someone's trying to drop a hint about tomorrow's Nintendo Direct.

Wishful thinking.

 

[robor]

Just a friendly bump to remind ya'll F-Zero X is still the superior title.

 

[RoadHazard]

GX is faster than Sonic.

 

[robor]

It should have been a really fast Sonic game then...

 

[Dr. Suchong]

I bought F-zero X on Japanese import and I think we can all agree on the fact that the box art is sublime. Not my image. Mines stored safely away from the ravages of Sunlight.
Both are great, but GX edges out in front for me personally.
Edit. The announcer in X still makes me laugh "YOO GOTT BOOOSSSHHT POWWWURRR!!"

 

[TintoConCasera]

Great game, love the speed and the music. Too bad I can't beat a single race on Master.

 

[Marty-McFly]

I'm just going to say it, the SNES version was the best as was the SNES Mario Kart in that series.

 

[SpongebobSquaredance]

I'm just going to say it, the SNES version was the best as was the SNES Mario Kart in that series.

 

[Punished Miku]

X was always better. GX is actually almost too hard to play because of how insane it is. If you mastered that game you have my respect. Its insanity. X has a better balance but I respect both games.

 

[Griffon]

I can't fathom how wrong this thread is

 

[ReBurn]

X and GX need a collection on Switch. I'd be ok with straight ports.

 

[Jeeves]

I love X and GX, but I've always liked X more. Perfect balance of fun playability and skill, whereas GX at times gets a little too intense for its own good. Good luck breaking that game out with your uninitiated friends.

Also I sorely miss Death Race and especially the X Cup. I used to stay up all night with my dad playing X Cup over and over, we never got bored of it.

 

[Naked Lunch]

I got actual physical pain reading the title of this thread.
No, just no.
GX is on a whole other level - from most other games, period - not just the inferior X.

Here's my old GAF thread on the subject if anyone cares:

F-Zero GX - the best game ever released on a Nintendo console.

My Gamecube has been boxed up for over a decade - I find the GC's library pretty jank outside of a handful of games (Killer 7, Fire Emblem, and the glorious F-Zero GX)- but I NEEDED to play F-Zero GX again on my HDTV. I dont currently own a wii so I recently bought a Carby solely to play it...

www.neogaf.com

 

[robor]

GX is atrocious.

 

[Shut0wen]

It seems like the majority of gamers hold F-Zero GX as the representative game for the franchise. It is the best F-Zero game for most people. I disagree and instead of just claim "X is the best F-Zero" i will try to actually explain why i like it more.

Graphics:
There is no doubt that the graphics in F-Zero GX are dazzling. Its surely one of the best looking GC games featuring both 60fps AND incredibly detailed backgrounds, unlike X where they had to do lots of sacrifices for the 60fps rate, making X one of the least appealing games on N64. Despite that i still think the game looks great in motion, still pictures and 30fps youtube videos can't make it justice.

But here's one thing people seem to miss about the graphics and art direction. After the original SNES F-Zero and F-Zero X, i had the feeling that the tracks were supposed to be high in the sky, the stratosphere or in space. This created an interesting atmosphere and a feel of isolation as there were no crowds or fancy events going on. It was just you, 29 opponents and the floating road. It made the races feel less inviting, more deadly and less "crowd pleasing" in the universe the game is taking place.

In comparison, some F-Zero GX tracks feel like they are taking place in big events with lots of spectators. Some even give me a "carnival" vibe. Many tracks are ground based and there are even some underwater parts. And lets not talk about the obsession Sega has with freaking casinos. It just doesn't feel like F-Zero after The first two games.


Music:
This is a matter of taste but anyway, lets exaggerate, the F-Zero X OST is hundreds (if not millions) times better than the over-distorted, messy GX soundtrack. X has some amazing thrash/death metal compositions and the few remixes feel closer to the original songs. GX still has some great metal character themes though (Bio-Rex, YEAH)


Controls:
I will just copy-paste the comment i made on the F-Zero GX thread. In GX they messed the "attack" ability completely. In X you double tapped the shoulder buttons to perform the attack and it really felt like your craft hits the opponent with its weight. Additionally, this move could be used to do sharp turns without lose much speed. You tapped the right shoulder button fast twice and you did a sudden "jump" at the right. Or the left shoulder to jump left. It just felt right. In GX they stripped all that and they mapped one general attack move on a random button. It doesn't feel right and i rarely even bother using it. I know that the analog shoulder buttons of the GC controller wouldn't work so well for something like that though, so i don't blame Sega entirely.

Additionally, in F-Zero X the analog controls sensitivity was better imo and the somewhat "harder" analog stick allowed me to better turn my craft with the correct amount of push it required so i won't lose my grip. The much more sensitive, lighter GC stick was more unstable and it was easier to push it more than you really wanted.



So, who agrees/disagrees with this and why?

I only prefer x because its easier, GX after 1st gran prix just becomes impossible, havnt played it for well over 18 years though

 

[joedan]

Recent DF video

 

[TintoConCasera]

I'm just going to say it, the SNES version was the best as was the SNES Mario Kart in that series.

I don't know if it's the best but it's a damn fine racing game, up there with my favorites. The OST, graphics and driving mechanics are top notch.

 

[ProgenitorCastle]

Thread sold me on it! I want to get it soon. Seems more like a true follow up to the SNES original than the later games

 

[TintoConCasera]

BTW, if anyone is interested in playing the 64DD version, it was translated and ported from disc-format to cartridge-format, so it's playable in Everdrives and the like.

It has:

• Stereo soundtrack, sounds better than before
• New music tracks Rainbow Road now has it's theme
• 2 new cups, both harder than the previous ones
• Car editor
• Race editor

 

[robor]

I only prefer x because its easier, GX after 1st gran prix just becomes impossible, havnt played it for well over 18 years though

It's hard because it's bad. If you go and watch the clip in Naked Lunch's thread, you'll find the person playing has mastered the track from pure memorization. It's all mechanically anticipated.

Any racing game that requires rote memorization to succeed and come 1st is a cardinal sin in game design.

 

[Grechy34]

I can't speak to the legacy of the franchise, I was a genesis kid growing up, and truthfully I've never liked racing games that much; I always thought they were kind of boring and uninspired (I remember trying to like outrun in the arcade and I played it for it's rockin' tunes when a friend wanted to, and the 'DAYTONAAAAAAAAA' scream from 'Let's Go Away' on Daytona USA for the Saturn is forever burned into my brain, but the majority of racing games were outright skipped in my personal experience). But I remember being gifted F-Zero GX and being absolutely blown away with how absolutely bonkers it was. It was in-your-face, looked visually amazing with lots of bright colors and effects, crazy and interesting characters, and was easy to understand in terms of it's basic mechanics... it was fast and if you could keep up, you were usually in pretty good shape. The game could also be punishing and difficult at times, but it was still a blast to play and managed to keep me engaged.

It was my first entry into the series and that's why it is special for me. I've tried to go back and play the other games, but they just don't scratch that itch for me, they don't have that 'special sauce' that makes me want to play for extended periods of time. Not hoping to change any minds here, just wanted to offer a perspective from someone that doesn't play racing games consistently

Off topic but dude when I hear that Daytona theme these days it bring back vivid memories of hanging out at arcades for hours with friends. Good times man. That and the SFII character selection screen.

ROLLLLIIIIIINNNNGGG STAAAARRRTTTT

 

[RoadHazard]

I'm just going to say it, the SNES version was the best as was the SNES Mario Kart in that series.

It's by far the worst.

(Well, maybe some of the portable ones are worse, I never played those.)

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

The best FZero game is Wipeout

 

[nkarafo]

It's hard because it's bad. If you go and watch the clip in Naked Lunch's thread, you'll find the person playing has mastered the track from pure memorization. It's all mechanically anticipated.

Any racing game that requires rote memorization to succeed and come 1st is a cardinal sin in game design.

That's not the case with X thankfully.

I easily beat the expansion tracks in harder modes the first time i played them, after i mastered the original.

I also beat most random generated levels as well.

 

[jigglet]

God X was a hard game, I 100%'ed it. I remember the way I did it was being very tactical about who I pushed off the track. I would target the competitors that were at the top of the scoreboard. That way even if I didn't get 1st place every time I could still win overall due to points.

 

[Naked Lunch]

It's hard because it's bad. If you go and watch the clip in Naked Lunch's thread, you'll find the person playing has mastered the track from pure memorization. It's all mechanically anticipated.

Any racing game that requires rote memorization to succeed and come 1st is a cardinal sin in game design.

While I respect your perspective - the GX clip you are referring to (I think) is that crazy one with the dude doing the snaking to skip thru the tracks.
Ive finished all courses in GX on all difficulties (it was NOT easy) and I never used snaking - didnt even know it existed.
Finished the old fashioned way.
I might have had to kill a rival during the run with the spin attack or side attack - but thats part of the gameplay too.

Look GX is a very difficult game - one of the most difficult in gaming history by my estimation - but its not unfair.
Its that classic Sega arcade racing game design - from Daytona to Sega Rally - those are not easy games either.
F-Zero GX's difficulty is a big part of why its so revered.

With all their talent and polish, I wish Nintendo would toss us a super hardcore, difficult game every couple years or so - but those days are apparently long gone.

 

[Velius]

GX was better. Also it has a better version of the Mute City theme. Smash Melee has the best version though