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Fable might have been scaled down due to engine issues and lack of wrpg expertise. Could release later than expected.

Lol, wow. I usually try to avoid posting in these console warrior threads where everyone pretends they aren't console warriors, but you obviously haven't played many racing games.
I have played plenty.
Playground is a quality developer and puts out the highest regarded racing game.
They have done so for a number of years.
Only someone with an agenda would say they are an average developer.
It would be like an Xbox fanboy saying that Naughty Dog are an average developer because all their games are third person games with the same mechanics just a different paint job.
That claim would be as stupid as the one that PG are average.
 

Faust

Perpetually Tired
Staff Member
Too many games feel bloated these days. Endless cookie cutter side quests, massive maps that are utterly dead (looking at you, Ubisoft), and a slow paced story that drags needlessly.

I would much rather have a smaller, tighter experience like Fable 1 over something overly “ambitious”.
 
I have played plenty.
Playground is a quality developer and puts out the highest regarded racing game.
They have done so for a number of years.
Only someone with an agenda would say they are an average developer.
It would be like an Xbox fanboy saying that Naughty Dog are an average developer because all their games are third person games with the same mechanics just a different paint job.
That claim would be as stupid as the one that PG are average.
Did I say they were an average developer?Playground is a quality developer and I do enjoy their games, especially Forza Motorsport, but saying they are the best racing developer "bar none" is a bit over the top.
 

Y0ssarian

Banned
AcsrwW5.png
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Too many games feel bloated these days. Endless cookie cutter side quests, massive maps that are utterly dead (looking at you, Ubisoft), and a slow paced story that drags needlessly.

I would much rather have a smaller, tighter experience like Fable 1 over something overly “ambitious”.
Sounds good in theory, but if you look at the best selling games they are mostly games with tons of content, replayability or it's a cookie cutter MP sport or shooter where competition is the key factor not innovation or tight stories.

I think gamers (like people buying most things in life) will skew to getting the most shit for your dollar. And for gaming, most games are set in price tiers like $60-70, that AA $50 game and then indies at $5-25.

So if someone is going to spend $60-70, they expect top notch productions and value and content.

Whether people like it or not, it can be argued, studios like Activision/Blizzard, R*, Bethesda, UBI have set the benchmark of games with giant scope and gameplay per dollar ratio kind of thing. Not that people get out a calculator and do the math but they know if you buy COD or Assassin's Creed, you'll never be spending full price for an 8 hour game you can beat over a weekend.
 
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Too many games feel bloated these days. Endless cookie cutter side quests, massive maps that are utterly dead (looking at you, Ubisoft), and a slow paced story that drags needlessly.

I would much rather have a smaller, tighter experience like Fable 1 over something overly “ambitious”.

Fuck yes. Give me a curated core experience. A game like Fallen Order was perfect. I have no interest in a 30 hour boring-a-thon. I found even ACIV Black Flag was a bit on the grinding side by the end of the game. I dropped Witcher III the moment the map expanded. Who could be fucked with that repetition. Same goes for BotW, degrading, gathering, crafting and all that crap bores the hell out of me. Lite-open world and lite-RPG is where it's at.
 
Sounds good in theory, but if you look at the best selling games they are mostly games with tons of content, replayability or it's a cookie cutter MP sport or shooter where competition is the key factor not innovation or tight stories.

I think gamers (like people buying most things in life) will skew to getting the most shit for your dollar. And for gaming, most games are set in price tiers like $60-70, that AA $50 game and then indies at $5-25.

So if someone is going to spend $60-70, they expect top notch productions and value and content.

Whether people like it or not, it can be argued, studios like Activision/Blizzard, R*, Bethesda, UBI have set the benchmark of games with giant scope and gameplay per dollar ratio kind of thing. Not that people get out a calculator and do the math but they know if you buy COD or Assassin's Creed, you'll never be spending full price for an 8 hour game you can beat over a weekend.

Seems like a good argument for Gamepass/subs to condense and focus games without that value proposition issue.
 
Did I say they were an average developer?Playground is a quality developer and I do enjoy their games, especially Forza Motorsport, but saying they are the best racing developer "bar none" is a bit over the top.
I was originally quoting someone who said they were an "overated" studio.
That's just horseshit.

Who is the better car developer at the moment than them?
Polyphony? No. They are good, and are on par with Turn 10.
Turn 10? No, they are one step behind PG.
Codemasters? Dirt 5 is nowhere near Forza Horizon?
Slightly mad studios? No, Project Cars is nowhere near Forza MS, GT7 or Forza Horizon.
Assetto Corsa? Not a chance.
Then let's compare Metascores. With PG going on the 5th interation of the same game they were really likey to get smashed with FH5 for being yet another upgrade, but the game was so good it pushed past that with a 92.
GT7 got 87
Dirt 5 got 80
Assetto Corsa got 80
Forza Motorsport 7 got 87.

Playground Games are the best Car developer at this point in time.
 

bender

What time is it?
"You can plant a tree and watch it grow as the years progress in your adventure"

Scaled down is the MO for the Fable series.
 
I have played plenty.
Playground is a quality developer and puts out the highest regarded racing game.
They have done so for a number of years.
Only someone with an agenda would say they are an average developer.
It would be like an Xbox fanboy saying that Naughty Dog are an average developer because all their games are third person games with the same mechanics just a different paint job.
That claim would be as stupid as the one that PG are average.
They are very good at what they do which is arcadey racing games, it's going to be interesting to see how that translates to a fantasy action RPG.
 

Rykan

Member
How many variations of this uninformed take will we see in every Fable thread?

The game was greenlit in 2017 before any of the RPG studios were acquired. So unless you believe Spencer has time travel or prophetic powers…
Obsidian was acquired in 2018 which means that negotiations to acquire Obsidian were most likely already underway when this decision was made.

If it WAS greenlit in 2017 and the project started that same year, then it just further goes to show what a strange fit it is: It means that this studio has been working on it since 2017 and its still nowhere to be seen. It also begs the question why you'd shut down Lionhead studios in the first place.
 

Barlow

Member
They started to ramp up the recruiting process end 2017/mid 2018 before that the RPG Team was around 20-40 Devs.

And we know it takes some time to switch from one genre to another.
 

Kydd BlaZe

Member
I could have sworn that they were using Unreal Engine 5 for this game. Maybe that was just a rumor, but I can understand them having issues using an engine built for racing games for a WRPG. I hope they can figure this out. I have high hopes for a new Fable.
 

C2brixx

Member

So the scope of the game changes over time because they want to ship on time and avoid crunch. I'm cool with that. These "insiders" make it seem like there is always technical issues and developers just don't know what they're doing. When its just them prioritizing what should be done given the time frame.
 

GHG

Member
So the scope of the game changes over time because they want to ship on time and avoid crunch. I'm cool with that. These "insiders" make it seem like there is always technical issues and developers just don't know what they're doing. When its just them prioritizing what should be done given the time frame.

*looks at thread title*

"Could release later than expected."


someone vision GIF
 
I said it before, but giving a full RPG game to a studio who only made racers before was never a smart move. There's absolutely no reason to expect them to able to deliver a great RPG, especially based on the "writing" in Forza. I have no idea why they ever greenlit this project using this studio.
 

azertydu91

Hard to Kill
Was going to post this.
Grabbing popcorn and waiting until all those concerned posters that believed a random youtube video ignore what a Senior Produced on the game says
Well she's confirming what has been said, scope reduced...But since we have no idea of what the scope is nor the estimated release date it still doesn't change a damn thing...And scope,date,mechanics etc... are things that moves internally and changes very often.So it doesn't mean anything while being true.
 

C2brixx

Member
Well she's confirming what has been said, scope reduced...But since we have no idea of what the scope is nor the estimated release date it still doesn't change a damn thing...And scope,date,mechanics etc... are things that moves internally and changes very often.So it doesn't mean anything while being true.
She's explaining that scope changes on every game and that its part of the development process. "Insiders" are just speculating on what brought about the scope change. She says its because they want to hit release date and avoid crunch. Rumor insider says its because of Forzatech engine and they don't have rpg expertise. Are we to believe a person that's developing the game or a Youtube "insider"?
 
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azertydu91

Hard to Kill
She's explaining that scope changes on every game and that its part of the development process. "Insiders" are just speculating on what brought about the scope change. She says its because they want to hit release date and avoid crunch. Rumor insider says its because of Forzatech engine and they don't have rpg expertise. Are we to believe a person that's developing the game or a Youtube "insider"?
No maybe I wasn't clear enough in my post I was just talking about the scope part, but it doesn't mean that the engine is problematic with certain features or not this is a confirmation or denial of nothing since as of now we know nothing about this game except that maybe his internal scope changed (spoiler like every game)
 

Punished Miku

Gold Member
No maybe I wasn't clear enough in my post I was just talking about the scope part, but it doesn't mean that the engine is problematic with certain features or not this is a confirmation or denial of nothing since as of now we know nothing about this game except that maybe his internal scope changed (spoiler like every game)
Breaking: Video game years from release receives edits
 

CeeJay

Member
I was originally quoting someone who said they were an "overated" studio.
That's just horseshit.

Who is the better car developer at the moment than them?
Polyphony? No. They are good, and are on par with Turn 10.
Turn 10? No, they are one step behind PG.
Codemasters? Dirt 5 is nowhere near Forza Horizon?
Slightly mad studios? No, Project Cars is nowhere near Forza MS, GT7 or Forza Horizon.
Assetto Corsa? Not a chance.
Then let's compare Metascores. With PG going on the 5th interation of the same game they were really likey to get smashed with FH5 for being yet another upgrade, but the game was so good it pushed past that with a 92.
GT7 got 87
Dirt 5 got 80
Assetto Corsa got 80
Forza Motorsport 7 got 87.

Playground Games are the best Car developer at this point in time.
Playground may make the highest rated racing game but that doesn't make them the best. Don't get me wrong, they are amazing at what they do. It's just that what they do doesn't appeal to me as much as a pure track racer. Playground also rely on big brother Turn10 so it's difficult to argue that they are better imo.

Turn 10 develop the engine that Playground then build their games with. T10 provide all the car model assets as well as technical support so there is no Forza Horizon without Turn10. Its also very subjective to say one is better than the other, for me I prefere the motorsport series as the actual wheel to wheel racing is more true to type whereas FH is mainly an over the top arcade racer that is as much about shunting other drivers as it is about great lines through corners. Motorsport is a more pure experience where lap times and tuning are king whereas FH is made to appeal to people who wouldn't necessarily play a more sim oriented racer and as such has a lot of non-racing content.
 

Topher

Gold Member
I said it before, but giving a full RPG game to a studio who only made racers before was never a smart move. There's absolutely no reason to expect them to able to deliver a great RPG, especially based on the "writing" in Forza. I have no idea why they ever greenlit this project using this studio.

That's probably why they hired a ton of staff who have experience making RPGs including people who worked on previous Fable games.
 

Roberts

Member
I don’t know anything about video game development but I worked in both film and advertising industries and it is a usual practice. You set up some goals but during prep and development find out there is bloat and other useless waste of resources so you tighten it up. And scaling down always works in the project’s favour. Nothingburger.
 

mejin

Member
Guerilla never had experience with RPG's either but they had a pretty good first run with Horizon Zero Dawn. I guess it comes down to resources and talent.
MS should have no problem in the resources department. They have more money than God. If they want a successful RPG for their studios, they should move heaven and earth to recruit the talent necessary to complete the project in a timely manner.

If this is all true it just looks like it comes across as mismanagement.

Well, mismanegement of resources is not new from Xbox.

Greens want the benefit of doubt without them delivering the games. That's crazy.
 

Ozriel

M$FT
Obsidian was acquired in 2018 which means that negotiations to acquire Obsidian were most likely already underway when this decision was made.

If it WAS greenlit in 2017 and the project started that same year, then it just further goes to show what a strange fit it is: It means that this studio has been working on it since 2017 and its still nowhere to be seen. It also begs the question why you'd shut down Lionhead studios in the first place.

Pitched in 2017. Playground started recruiting in 2017/2017, and at that time the game was certainly in pre-production stage. Full development probably right in the middle of the COVID outbreak.
Why would MS have stalled the game for Obsidian that had their hands full with The Outer Worlds and Avowed? How does that make sense to you?

Games take time to make. For example, Sony Santa Monica will have spent 4.5 years making a sequel to God of War. Sucker Punch took 6 years to make Ghost of Tsushima. Guerilla took over 4 years to make a sequel to Horizon ZD.
There’s no hard and fast rule for development time for AAA games.
 

mejin

Member
This is one of the few studios that has regularly delivered games though, so it's really not that crazy. They just put out a game.

True, but they still are just a racing dev, even if they are the best in what they do it is not crazy to imagine they will have a hard time to transition to a real game with a universe, story, characters, dialogues, motion capture, quests, sidequests, gameplay mechanics, etc.

We don't know nothing about the game and we already have an Xbox Ambassador spilling the beans and a senior producer doing damage control. This is not normal.
 
I was originally quoting someone who said they were an "overated" studio.
That's just horseshit.

Who is the better car developer at the moment than them?
Polyphony? No. They are good, and are on par with Turn 10.
Turn 10? No, they are one step behind PG.
Codemasters? Dirt 5 is nowhere near Forza Horizon?
Slightly mad studios? No, Project Cars is nowhere near Forza MS, GT7 or Forza Horizon.
Assetto Corsa? Not a chance.
Then let's compare Metascores. With PG going on the 5th interation of the same game they were really likey to get smashed with FH5 for being yet another upgrade, but the game was so good it pushed past that with a 92.
GT7 got 87
Dirt 5 got 80
Assetto Corsa got 80
Forza Motorsport 7 got 87.

Playground Games are the best Car developer at this point in time.
Yeah, well, that's just like, your opinion, man. My issue was with your original assertion that Playground is the best racing developer "bar none". In my opinion, Assetto Corsa is a better racing game than anything Playground has ever made, and iRacing is an even larger step beyond that past anything that Playground has ever made. However, I prefer realistic racing games, while I'm assuming you prefer more of the arcade variety, and that's fine. As I said before, Playground is a quality developer, but I just disagree that they are in a league of their own as it pertains to making racing games.
 

Lognor

Banned
Going from Publisher of the Year in 2021 to not having a single game the following year isn't what I would call consistency.
Yep. When they deliver they DELIVER. But a year without a new game is obviously unacceptable. Ms needed to be making more third party exclusive deals this year but we've really got nothing. So yeah, a bad year unless there are some big surprises in the second half.

But I think starting in 2023 we'll be overwhelmed with ms games. We'll start seeing output like 2021 every year (hopefully).
 

Kssio_Aug

Member
True, but they still are just a racing dev, even if they are the best in what they do it is not crazy to imagine they will have a hard time to transition to a real game with a universe, story, characters, dialogues, motion capture, quests, sidequests, gameplay mechanics, etc.

We don't know nothing about the game and we already have an Xbox Ambassador spilling the beans and a senior producer doing damage control. This is not normal.
As pointed out in this thread earlier, there are a lot of people working with Playground, with experience on the genre. Also, about the producer, what is the problem if she is just talking facts to calm people down on a silly rumour that is apparently getting a bit out of control?
 
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Punished Miku

Gold Member
Ms needed to be making more third party exclusive deals this year but we've really got nothing. So yeah, a bad year unless there are some big surprises in the second half.
There's honestly not much even coming out this year. Gotham Knights? Gollum?

If Sega is smart, they'll put Soul Hackers 2 on GP since probably very few Xbox gamers will be getting it. I'm not holding my breath though.
 
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azertydu91

Hard to Kill
There's honestly not much even coming out this year. Gotham Knights? Gollum?

If Sega is smart, they'll put Soul Hackers 2 on GP since probably very few Xbox gamers will be getting it. I'm not holding my breath though.
Gollum is this year ?I have to admit with the lukewarm first showing I had forgotten about this game.
 

Chukhopops

Member
What could a senior producer on this game possibly know about the game?
I mean, this is standard Agile method for project management, you regularly review the scope and remove things. She’s stating the obvious and it applies to every game.

Well, mismanegement of resources is not new from Xbox.

Greens want the benefit of doubt without them delivering the games. That's crazy.
A rumor is a rumor regardless of the biased perspective people may have. But that’s too much to ask obviously.
 

Punished Miku

Gold Member
There's enough games coming for my taste but I can see how it can look dry, maybe we will have more announced in a few days/weeks
I'll be good with Splatoon 3. But I just mean in terms of third party games to get, there's actually not that many even coming out to get right now. Maybe we'll see some interesting indies I'm not aware of also.
 

azertydu91

Hard to Kill
I'll be good with Splatoon 3. But I just mean in terms of third party games to get, there's actually not that many even coming out to get right now. Maybe we'll see some interesting indies I'm not aware of also.
Yep indies are often where I'll find the most fun, I got bored of Nintendo games even though I was a huge fan.
Like
Electric-Powered-Free-Standing-Commercial-Used-Big-Floor-Fan.jpg

Edit link didn't work first I don't know why.
 
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We've seen these threads before and they always end the same way. One side looks at the evidence, facts and data and draw logical conclusions. The other side puts their fingers in their ears and say "Nah nah nah I can't hear you, this is all concern and random and pinch of salt nah nah nah"

Halo: Infinite

  • Showed a trailer in 2019 that was meant to be in game. It wasn't
  • Game gets delayed a year
  • Game launches feature light
  • Game has missing features to this day
Hellblade 2

  • Trailer is CGI. Microsoft said it was in game
  • Trailer turns out to be CGI
  • Microsoft said Hellblade was in production, using UE5, which wasn't even out
  • Game didn't enter production until 12 months after Microsoft said it was
Starfield

  • Microsoft stated it would release on time, even doubling down on the release date
  • Shows a lack of footage and instead releases artwork
  • Community says it will be delayed. Microsoft say "no"
  • Game get delayed
Redfall

  • Little information about the game
  • Microsoft said it will release on time
  • Microsoft said the game is now delayed
Forza 5

  • Was supposed to launch with RT and 60fps
  • Game launches with RT in photo mode and garage
  • Only runs at 30fps.
Now? Rumors of fable being delayed with piss-poor excuses of lack of experience - which is objectively false, and the 'fans' and community state the game isn't being delayed?

When are people going to seriously ask what the hell is going on with the xbox division? Even the terrible reveal of the xbone, and the xbone itself, doesn't compare to how shitty the division is now and I'm an xbox fan of 20+ years. You can enjoy a football team, but still hate the direction the management is taking it (See Manchester United in the UK for example).

Phil Spencer needs to be replaced. Turning away Marvel, Letting insomniac go, mismanagement of Halo, Hellblade, Forza, Starfield and now Fable, show's he has no clue about the industry. The Xbox Series is his first console launch and he has nothing to show for it. And if anyone thinks it's acceptable to hand-wave away the failures because "publisher of the year", then give your head a wobble, because you're being bamboozled.

There's no shame in wanting better.
 
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