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[German Hops]

Based on the Hague conventions, general principles of international law, jus cogens etc..., i can safely say that the indiscriminate bombing of the city was indeed a war crime. But that doesn't seem to resonate with a lot of people.

And don't come give me the "b-but it was total war!" crap. Everyone knows that in a war, you don't attack civilians on purpose.

You tell me that THIS isn't a war crime?

Had the Germans won, wouldn't they have put some people on trial on the allies side for war crimes?

 

[Fuz]

Of course it was.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

It's only a war crime if you're the loser.

The firebombings of Dresden, Hamburg, and Tokyo actually killed more people than the nuclear bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki but no one talks about those.

 

[FunkMiller]

The justification for the bombing was that millions more would have died in a ground assault on mainland Japan, which would have happened otherwise.

So, there’s a very real case to suggest the bombing of Hiroshima saved many more lives than it took.

It’s up to you to decide whether you believe this was the correct course of action or not, but for me, it was a hideous, but inevitable consequence of Japan’s ongoing imperialistic depredations, and did bring the war to a close far quicker than would have otherwise been the case.

 

[SentientStone]

Evil imperialists did this.
But the psyop worked, it made Asia and the Chinese feel better about America for avenging them.
I love my Apple products.

 

[ClanOfNone]

It's only a war crime if you're the loser.

There is only one rule in war, win the war.

 

[Loope]

Yes. To me it was. Same with what the soviet troops did when fighting in Germany and Dresden bombings etc.

It's just, in hindsight, when you put it against the atrocities commited by the Germans and Japanese people tend to forget bombings when compared with gasing people, killing babies like nothing, raping women and children like nobody's business.

 

[ZywyPL]

Hard to tell, at the end of the day it's killing people, whether it's a nuke, Tomahawk missle, RPG rocket, bullet from AK47, knife, your own hands, the end result is the same - people die. I personally can't wrap my head about all the conventions - this if forbiden, this is ok, like wtf your intentions are to kill people to begin with anyway, just don't do war AT ALL.

 

[Scotty W]

Can’t find the original video anymore.


There is video of 8000 Japanese committing mass suicide after the Yanks took Saipan- with Japanese translators begging them to stop.

 

[OZ9000]

The justification for the bombing was that millions more would have died in a ground assault on mainland Japan, which would have happened otherwise.

So, there’s a very real case to suggest the bombing of Hiroshima saved many more lives than it took.

It’s up to you to decide whether you believe this was the correct course of action or not, but for me, it was a hideous, but inevitable consequence of Japan’s ongoing imperialistic depredations, and did bring the war to a close far quicker than would have otherwise been the case.

The aftereffects of nuclear warfare are devastating including a substantial increase in birth defects and cancer. As far as I am concerned, there is nothing more heinous than using nuclear weapons. An invasion would have been kinder to the Japanese.

 

[Irobot82]

The aftereffects of nuclear warfare are devastating including a substantial increase in birth defects and cancer. As far as I am concerned, there is nothing more heinous than using nuclear weapons. An invasion would have been kinder to the Japanese.

Did we know what the after effects would be before we dropped the bombs?

 

[Aurelius]

You reap what you sow.

 

[DragoonKain]

It cost countless Japanese lives. It also saved countless American lives continuing a bloody grind of a war that the Japanese were adamant in not surrendering and still didn't want to after both bombs were dropped.

War is ugly, few choices are simple. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. They made a choice to spare soldiers the horrors of grinding out against a die-hard enemy.

Don't think it was a war crime.

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

Excuse me and my answer will be controversial, but what they did with Hiroshima and Nagasaki ...

It is not only a great barbarity, it is a great crime and a shame what they did with the poor Japanese.

This criminal act is inexcusable.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

When it comes to war, I'm on the side of anything goes to win. And back then it sure was anything goes. Fire bombings, nukes, concentration camps you name it. It sure seemed like there were no war rule standards.

If that meant nuking cities to stop the war, do it. It sure seemed to teach Japan lesson fast. Googling it, they bailed less than a week after the first bomb dropped.

If the US didnt, who knows how long it would take the US to finally take down Japan.

On a side note, it did Japan a favour. Growing up before net, you never really heard about Japanese WWII stuff except Pearl Harbour and kamikaze pilots. Then you read up on Japan an back then they were some kind of dictatorship iron fisted government that did all kinds of wacky shit to prisoners and to people they took over in nearby Asian countries. If the US didn't defend the Pacific, who knows how far Japan would spread.

After the US bombed the shit out of them they changed tune to focus on education, industry, and being super chill people and government.

 

[Little Mac]

Can we discuss the Nanjing Massacre?

History.com:

"In late 1937, over a period of six weeks, Imperial Japanese Army forces brutally murdered hundreds of thousands of people–including both soldiers and civilians–in the Chinese city of Nanking (or Nanjing). The horrific events are known as the Nanking Massacre or the Rape of Nanking, as between 20,000 and 80,000 women were sexually assaulted. Nanking, then the capital of Nationalist China, was left in ruins, and it would take decades for the city and its citizens to recover from the savage attacks."

"In light of such atrocities, the United States began passing economic sanctions against Japan, including trade embargoes on aircraft exports, oil and scrap metal, among other key goods, and gave economic support to Guomindang forces. In September 1940, Japan signed the Tripartite Pactwith Germany and Italy, the two fascist regimes then at war with the Allies.

Tokyo and Washington negotiated for months leading up to the Pearl Harbor attack, without success. While the United States hoped embargoes on oil and other key goods would lead Japan to halt its expansionism, the sanctions and other penalties actually convinced Japan to stand its ground, and stirred up the anger of its people against continued Western interference in Asian affairs."

"In May 1940, the United States had made Pearl Harbor the main base for its Pacific Fleet. As Americans didn’t expect the Japanese to attack first in Hawaii, some 4,000 miles away from the Japanese mainland, the base at Pearl Harbor was left relatively undefended, making it an easy target.

Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto spent months planning an attack that aimed to destroy the Pacific Fleet and destroy morale in the U.S. Navy, so that it would not be able to fight back as Japanese forces began to advance on targets across the South Pacific.

Japan’s surprise attack on Pearl Harbor would drive the United States out of isolation and into World War II, a conflict that would end with Japan’s surrender after the devastating atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasakiin August 1945."



World War 2. It was fucked up ... all war is. But I'm not calling someone who allied itself with Nazi Germany, amongst numerous other atrocities at the time, a victim of a war crime so I voted no.

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

I have a lot of love for both Mexico and the people of Japan.

That movie makes me sad, because of everything the Japanese had to go through.

 

[DanteFox]

Excuse me and my answer will be controversial, but what they did with Hiroshima and Nagasaki ...

It is not only a great barbarity, it is a great crime and a shame what they did with the poor Japanese.

This criminal act is inexcusable.

Ah yes, those poor, innocent Japanese. How we just attacked them without warning... Oh wait, that's what they did to us.

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

Ah yes, those poor, innocent Japanese. How we just attacked them without warning... Oh wait, that's what they did to us.

There are no winners or losers in a war.

And yes, and I repeat it... Poor people who have had to live in such a disastrous war.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Don't think it was a war crime.

I dont think so either.

Now if Japan surrendered, and the US kept nuking them for the hell of it that would be different.

 

[Blade2.0]

I don't think anything should go in war, but then again, will the other side listen? What's the point in winning if there's nothing to rule over when you're done?

 

[Wulfer]

Excuse me and my answer will be controversial, but what they did with Hiroshima and Nagasaki ...

It is not only a great barbarity, it is a great crime and a shame what they did with the poor Japanese.

This criminal act is inexcusable.

Man your entitled to your opinions but, I think you should read the link below before making such statements. Plus no one had ever used an atomic bomb before the US dropped one. They didn't know what the level of devastation was possible from these bombs.

https://www.history.com/topics/world-war-ii/pearl-harbor

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

Man your entitled to your opinions but, I think you should read the link below before making such statements. Plus no one had ever used an atomic bomb before the US dropped one. They didn't know what the level of devastation was possible from these bombs.

https://www.history.com/topics/world-war-ii/pearl-harbor

OK friend... Im gonna read your link.

 

[Arkangelus0]

Its a war crime, period

Americans can try ALL the fucking excuses to look like heroes, when in facts are Just murderers like the rest, and the excuse it saved millions was bullshit

They drop the bomb to show the World of what they are trully capable, and what would happen if you mess with américa

 

[Mistake]

I think the worst of it is that they KNEW what the radiation would do. Plenty of scientists died before they even dropped those bombs. This is what tips me over to the “it was a war crime” side

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Its a war crime, period

Americans can try ALL the fucking excuses to look like heroes, when in facts are Just murderers like the rest, and the excuse it saved millions was bullshit

They drop the bomb to show the World of what they are trully capable, and what would happen if you mess with américa

Thats the point.

And no foreign governments ever attack the US on their soil since then. Just imagine if the US didn't end the pacific war with Japan with nukes. It could had gone on for ages.

Sometimes when someone punches you in the face, you hit them on the head with a baseball bat to end it. If you dont, then you might get into a stupid back and forth match trading punches forever.

 

[ManaByte]

It cost countless Japanese lives. It also saved countless American lives continuing a bloody grind of a war that the Japanese were adamant in not surrendering and still didn't want to after both bombs were dropped.

200,000 dead vs 3 million dead from Operation Downfall.

 

[En Sama]

Yeah we all did some fucked up shit but maybe it is time we start getting over it.

 

[newtypepilot]

No it's not because context is really important. The purpose of the bombs was to force Japan to surrender. It was a "lesser of two evils" because hundreds of thousands more lives on both sides will die if the Allies went for amphibious landing instead. The Japanese were willing to defend to the last man literally, even resorting to using the civilian population as meat shields by arming them with makeshift weapons and through propaganda saying it's more honorable to die for the emperor. The battles on places such as Okinawara and Iwo Jima showed that the Japanese were willing to stall and inflict as much as casualties as they can using tactics like kamikazes due to their unwillingness to surrender, despite the fact that by that point, it was impossible for them to win the war.

You should read about Operation Downfall and Operation Ketsugo.

The Japanese committed way worse atrocities with a WAY higher death count in its campaign across China, and South East Asia. Nanjing Massacres, Unit 731, comfort women, now these are war crimes.

 

[Chronicle]

They had Korea occupied at the time and were imprisoning them in camps and erasing their history. They did unspeakable things. They got their asses kicked and got the fuck out of Korea. Fuck them.

It's funny how the west doesn't know that.

Yoko Ono used to play that shitty card too. Like she was sone poor Japanese girl and owed something. What a joke.

 

[haxan7]

Japan deserved it. The world is lucky USA was here to stop them.

 

[Northeastmonk]

Pearl Harbor happened. I get why we feel guilty, but what about our American troops who died in sinking ships and what not? I feel like we can’t have empathy for the soldiers who died in sinking ships. We just circle around to what we did in retaliation. I think it was extreme, but it’s what happened.

No one can go back and change what we did to end the war. It ended it. I feel like no one gives two sh*ts about American troops sometimes.

Idk is it against ToS for this subject?

 

[Woggleman]

No matter how you slice it was mass murder on a huge scale. Whether or not it was a necessary evil to prevent something even worse is a matter of debate. Maybe it was the only way to bring a swift end to the war but let's be honest about the horrific atrocity that it was.

 

[TaylorSwiftFan]

Japan were given ample warning but did not back down and would have gone to the end. But did they have to drop the bomb in a city with so many civilians?

 

[Arkangelus0]

Thats the point.

And no foreign governments ever attack the US on their soil since then. Just imagine if the US didn't end the pacific war with Japan with nukes. It could had gone on for ages.

Sometimes when someone punches you in the face, you hit them on the head with a baseball bat to end it. If you dont, then you might get into a stupid back and forth match trading punches forever.

América was never invaded, in fact its almost imposible to invade the american continent, so thats excuse is pathethic

Americans are a bloodthirsty salvages, always in the need of war, if they Just wanted to show their nukes, they can do it in an abandoned Island like many of japan and prove their point, but no, they have to commit a genocide, because killing for them feels good and need to prove they are heroes

 

[bitbydeath]

There’s no such thing as a war crime during war. That’s like saying you can only eat from the salad bar during an all-you-can-eat.

Nothing is off the table.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

The fact that they didn't surrender after the first bomb means no.

 

[Tams]

Considering the atrocities that the Japanese armed forces committed? The same for the Tokyo bombings. No. It was a direct response to what they did. And the populace of Japan shared their part in those atrocities.

It is also been and done now. The best we can do is to not repeat the whole sordid affair, though history since seems to suggest we haven't changed much as a species.

Now, were there various other reasons than getting the Japanese to surrender behind the bombs being dropped? Of course. But I think too many people in the safety of a time of peace are willing to dismiss and both sides parts of history where actually evil things happened. And the world is not all cuddly where you can ask the bad people to 'just stop'.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

The Japanese were on the losing team but refused to surrender, what do you do when it’s all out war and negotiations aren’t on the table?

I guess they could have nuked a non populated area and told them we will drop the next one on your head if you don’t wave the white flag.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

América was never invaded, in fact its almost imposible to invade the american continent, so thats excuse is pathethic

Americans are a bloodthirsty salvages, always in the need of war, if they Just wanted to show their nukes, they can do it in an abandoned Island like many of japan and prove their point, but no, they have to commit a genocide, because killing for them feels good and need to prove they are heroes

Relax. WWII ended almost 80 years ago. You have zero proof showcasing nukes on an abandoned island would make Japan surrender. But blowing up their cities did end it.

US might be part of lots of battles, but dont forget often times they are asked for help. I bet no other country on Earth gets begged more for military and financial help than the US. Most other countries in the world do absolutely zero. There's around 200 countries in the world and same maybe 10 do all the legwork as global protectors. The rest sit there as if nothing happened and just live life hoping they dont get affected. And that even includes some countries right in the middle of warzones (ie. Switzerland). The first thing they do is claim neutrality and try to make money from both sides.

Be appreciative the nukes ended the war, and the US was a big part in Europe too. If it wasnt for the US, we could all be speaking German or Japanese now.

 

[Denton]

Reading about what japanese empire was like and the unbelievable evil it perpetrated, Japan is lucky it wasn't nuked off the face of the earth entirely.

 

[AJUMP23]

The Japanese by the last years of the war were murdering around 100,000 civilians a month. Most in mainland China. The Japanese were unwilling to surrender knowing that they had already lost. Their last ditch offensive maneuver failed. They were low on fuel and had begun arming civilians to fight a mainland invasion.

While nukes were horrific in their use the killed 300,000 Japanese civilians and saved the lives of millions of Japanese and Americans.

They were not a war crime. While war is terrible there is really only one rule in war, destroy your enemy by any means necessary. War crimes are a modern concept for what is supposedly a civilized age. The idea of them is merely a political bargaining tool.

 

[TGO]

While I don't agree with the use of the atomic bomb, retaliation isn't a war crime.
And you can't expect the retaliator to have mercy on innocent civilians when the attacker didn't.
You hear it a lot these days with people sympathising with the ones that struck first, even claiming war crimes against their own country.
No of it is right, but when has revenge been right and fix anything.
It just makes you as bad as them, it's human nature.

 

[MightySquirrel]

If we're talking war crimes of extreme proportions why go so far back? To answer the question at hand, that was totally inexcusable.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some hypocritical comments here are so palpable it's almost hysterical.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

They were not a war crime. While war is terrible there is really only one rule in war, destroy your enemy by any means necessary. War crimes are a modern concept for what is supposedly a civilized age. The idea of them is merely a political bargaining tool.

I'm no history buff, but at some point (maybe it was the aftermath of WWII) all these policies and agreements resembling "if you're going to war, it would be great if you guys were strategic about it" came about trying to turn war into some meticulous Call of Duty game where the only players in the war are soldiers. Whereas in reality, there's economic, societal and and millions of civilians roaming around.

As I said earlier when you get into a fight, instead of doing a tit for tat equal justice, sometimes you got respond hard to make it stop. Teach the other side a lesson and it ends there.

No different than fist fights in school. Two guys duking it out equally might just keep doing it. If one guy lays a stomping, the other guy will likely concede and stop.

 

[Sleepwalker]

Absolutely. Neither Nagasaki or Hiroshima were military targets, it was a targeted attack on civilians. Despicable in every sense.

 

[En Sama]

Yeah I think it is a war crime because you nuked innocent civilians. That sounds like a war crime to me. I suppose we could have done all the things the posters here are saying apart from dropping a nuclear bomb on innocent civilians but it doesn't negate the fact that a nuclear bomb was dropped on innocent civilians.

Now what sort of recompense would you want for this heinous war crime that was committed? That is where I would start to back America up in their reasons for dropping a nuclear bomb on innocent civilians.

 

[zombrex]

Japan was willing to have every citizen fight, woman, child, disabled and old and decrepit.
There are some great propaganda videos that show how the Japanese trained disabled people to crawl under tanks to blow them up(suicide attack), women how to use improvised weapons like bamboo spears etc. They were absolutely willing to fight to the last person.

Historian Herbert Bix noted the nadir of Japanese savagery towards prisoners. In eight years of war in China from 1937 to 1945, the Japanese killed at least two to three million Chinese soldiers. When Japan was required to hand over the prisoners of war she held after surrender, she presented a total of 56 Chinese. Almost half of Australian battles deaths in the war (8,000 of 17,000) occurred among those captured by Japan. About 35 percent of American prisoners of war held by Japan perished compared to 0.9 percent of Americans captured by Germany.

There Are No Civilians in Japan | The National WWII Museum | New Orleans

Allied military planners faced a bitter truth as they planned for a possible invasion of Japan: there were no distinctions between soldiers and civilians.

www.nationalww2museum.org

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Japan was willing to have every citizen fight, woman, child, disabled and old and decrepit.
There are some great propaganda videos that show how the Japanese trained disabled people to crawl under tanks to blow them up, women how to use improvised weapons like bamboo spears etc. They were absolutely willing to fight to the last person.

https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/there-are-no-civilians-japander

Never knew all this, but not surprised.

When you got a country with kamikaze pilots and ancient hari-kari self kills, I'm not surprised they'd fight to the last person.

Although with a few nuke drops, it shows even the most stubborn combatant will give in.

Seems like the US, just said to themselves, "Fuck this Japan and any longlasting war of attrition and aerial and land raids. Lets just obliterate them one bomb at a time till they concede".

Looks like it took two bombs.

 

[En Sama]

Um you do know that they were at war?