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[64bitmodels]

I don't see how people can say that they're awful in comparison to AAA games and then proceed to ignore the sizeable amount of really good looking indies. There is a sizeable number of people on this forum who constantly complain about how bad AAA is but won't accept indies because they 'look bad' or 'are all derivative of 8 bit games' or 'are all depression simulators' (ignoring the fact that 99% of indies are trying to help people get OVER depression, not encourage it)
Well guess what, Stray's out, it looks amazing, people like it, and if that's not enough for you, we've got Ravenlok, (which is coming out soon) Sifu, Kena, Cuphead, Ori, Skullgirls, A Hat in Time, Scorn (coming out soon as well), High on Life, (also coming out soon) and a whole lot more from where that came from.
These indies will become the AAA of the future (as evidenced by Returnal, which was the first AAA game from a primarily indie studio), the only way we can see newer, more interesting, less greedy developers is if we give them the support that they need.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Played an hour of Stray today and dayum is it ever gorgeous. I agree with you completely these games should be supported so we can encourage more of these types of reasonably priced passion projects. If these games, as pretty and polished as they are, can't break through the closed mindedness of someone, then they're never going to take a chance on them.

Though in all honesty I think these games have such nice visuals that a lot of people wouldn't realize they're indies to begin with. My best friend is one of the most closed minded gamers out there and he bought Kena day 1 because of the graphics alone. This is a guy who only knows what rogue lites are because of Returnal and he still laughs at me any time he asks me what I'm playing and my answer is its an indie or pixel art style game.

Ps5/Series X seems to be the generation that finally allows indies to compete with AAA to a degree when it comes to graphics.

 

[Captain Toad]

Throw in Cuphead and Ori.

 

[adamsapple]

There is a sizeable number of people on this forum who constantly complain about how bad AAA is but won't accept indies because they 'look bad' or 'are all derivative of 8 bit games'

Any "gamer" with narrow minded thinking like this are depriving themselves of some of the best experiences this medium has to offer.

 

[Little Chicken]

Who thought that? Games like Tunic, Death's Door, Rogue Legacy 2, Olli Olli World, Moonlight Bay, Sable, Chicory, Ender Lillies, Cyber Shadow, Road 96, Axiom Verge 2, The Ascent, Artful Escape, Lost in Random, The Lake, Yes, Your Grace, Forgotten City etc etc etc

Indie games have propped this generation up as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Aenima]

I will never understand why some indie devs like using 8 bit or older style graphics. Just because a game is indie it dosent need to look like shit.

Luckly thers still a good amount of indie devs that apreciate good visuals and artstyle. Those are the ones that get my money.

 

[Jigsaah]

I don't see how people can say that they're awful in comparison to AAA games and then proceed to ignore the sizeable amount of really good looking indies. There is a sizeable number of people on this forum who constantly complain about how bad AAA is but won't accept indies because they 'look bad' or 'are all derivative of 8 bit games' or 'are all depression simulators' (ignoring the fact that 99% of indies are trying to help people get OVER depression, not encourage it)
Well guess what, Stray's out, it looks amazing, people like it, and if that's not enough for you, we've got Ravenlok, (which is coming out soon) Sifu, Kena, Cuphead, Ori, Skullgirls, A Hat in Time, Scorn (coming out soon as well), High on Life, (also coming out soon) and a whole lot more from where that came from.
These indies will become the AAA of the future (as evidenced by Returnal, which was the first AAA game from a primarily indie studio), the only way we can see newer, more interesting, less greedy developers is if we give them the support that they need.

Are people actually saying indies are awful though? That's not the feeling I get at all...at least from GAF.

 

[LazyParrot]

There have always been games that utterly destroy that particular stereotype. If anyone still believes it today, then I doubt those three games will suddenly change their mind.

I will never understand why some indie devs like using 8 bit or older style graphics. Just because a game is indie it dosent need to look like shit.

Have you considered that some people might actually like the 8-bit look?

 

[Aenima]

There have always been games that utterly destroy that particular stereotype. If anyone still believes it today, then I doubt those three games will suddenly change their mind.


Have you considered that some people might actually like the 8-bit look?

I know some ppl like it, thats why they make games that look like it. Some ppl also like to eat shit, dont mean i have to eat it too.

 

[Lognor]

Duh? Those of us who don't turn our noses up at indies have known this for YEARS

 

[64bitmodels]

I know some ppl like it, thats why they make games that look like it. Some ppl also like to eat shit, dont mean i have to eat it too.

i don't know how you can equate pixel art to shit when more often than not modern pixel art looks really really good

 

[64bitmodels]

Duh? Those of us who don't turn our noses up at indies have known this for YEARS

wait, you're one of us? that profile picture really made me think otherwise- it's usually the Sony guys on this board who shit on indies

 

[Lognor]

wait, you're one of us? that profile picture really made me think otherwise- it's usually the Sony guys on this board who shit on indies

Really? Maybe Sony guys weren't eating as well as PC, Xbox and Switch owners?

I seem to recall during the first year of the PS4 when there wasn't much content at all that Sony was really pushing indies. So at one point I think Sony guys did like indies, but in the more recent years maybe not? I dunno. I've always loved indies.

 

[Aenima]

i don't know how you can equate pixel art to shit when more often than not modern pixel art looks really really good

There are good looking pixel art, and awfull looking pixel art. Most of the good looking pixel art only become good looking in motion thanks to good animations though.

In the times PS+ oferered a good amount of indie games, i played a good amount of pixel art games that made me throw up in my mouth. And not even the animations saved them. And thats why i dont understand why some devs go this path for art choice. Is not like they dont have tools to make something more good looking.
Eye candy not only helps sell games, but also helps player enjoy a bit more the games.

 

[marjo]

You've taken the first step young Padawan. Now try brothering your horizons further by playing games like Inscription, Last Call BBS, Slay The Spire, etc. and a whole new realm of awesome games awaits!

 

[Shits_McGiggles]

I see people relentlessly shit on AA games, but rarely indie games.
Though its obnoxious how many indie games are incorporating "rogue-like" and "survival/crafting" elements. It kills me a bit inside every time I see an indie game get announced that is some rogue-like survival card-based game with crafting.

 

[TexMex]

I'm sure you've seen one or two people who feel this way but it certainly is not the prevailing line of thinking on this board at all.

Also being indie doesn't immediately make them exempt from criticism either. Plenty are derivative 8/16 bit clones. Doesn't make them bad of course but pointing at very clear outliers like Stray and Kena and calling them the rule is equally unfair.

Kena, in particular, isn't really representative of what I would even call an indie. That game was pitched to and partially funded by Sony themselves as a publishing partner.

 

[64bitmodels]

Really? Maybe Sony guys weren't eating as well as PC, Xbox and Switch owners?

not really that... Moreso that the PC guys on this board (myself included) flaunt about the massive library of indies on PC, and Sony guys usually counter by talking about how shitty they look in comparison to the exclusives- hence this thread to begin with

There are good looking pixel art, and awfull looking pixel art. Most of the good looking pixel art only becomes good looking in motion thanks to good animations though.

In the times PS+ oferered a good amount of indie games, i played a good amount of pixel art games that made me trow in my mouth. And not even the animations saved them. And thats why i dont understand why some devs go this path for art choice. Is not like they dont have tools to make something more good looking.
Eye candy not only helps sell games, but also helps player enjoy a bit more the games.

What WOULD you consider bad looking pixel art then? from my experience most of the well known regarded indies have amazing pixel art- Shredder's Revenge, Blasphemous, Sonic Mania, Crosscode, Freedom Planet, Terraria, Rivals of Aether, list goes on

 

[CitizenZ]

Duh? Those of us who don't turn our noses up at indies have known this for YEARS

Actually its been close to a decade+ now.

 

[LazyParrot]

I know some ppl like it, thats why they make games that look like it. Some ppl also like to eat shit, dont mean i have to eat it too.

I get not being into certain genres or art styles. But to pretend that something as trivial as enjoying pixel graphics is both utterly incomprehensible to you and comparable to eating human excrement is... a bit much, don’t you think? Why all the hyperbole?

 

[Captain Toad]

wait, you're one of us? that profile picture really made me think otherwise- it's usually the Sony guys on this board who shit on indies

He's a Xbox fanboy. That avatar is his losing a bet.

 

[March Climber]

Are people actually saying indies are awful though? That's not the feeling I get at all...at least from GAF.

Hang around here during E3/Summer Games Fest week and find out.

 

[CosmicComet]

Indie games got that stigma because that was the seemingly large majority of what they were in the PS3/360 days.

Nowadays it's easy for an indie game to be better than Ubisoft.

 

[Torrent of Pork]

I will never understand people that look at great pixel art games, and are turned off due to the graphics. You don't play the graphics.

PS1/N64 games look like hot dogshit nowadays, and they had some of the best bangers to this day.

 

[bitbydeath]

Sony’s usually pretty good at courting indies.
They’ve even had some GOTY winners, beating out AAA games.

 

[Griffon]

Tho, neither Stray, Kena, nor Sifu are indies. These are AA studios with publishers.

Why are people calling those indie to begin with?

 

[Punished Miku]

Its really shocking to see GAF realize just today that indie games are good. A lot more sheltered people than I realized.

 

[Soapbox Killer]

Indies have been on par with major studios since at least Shovel Knight.

 

[Represent.]

Can someone tell me what strays gameplay loop is? Is it just walking around as a cat? I don’t give a shit about cats so I’ve been showed literally zero interest in it

Sifu is probably in my top 10 all time list however

 

[KXVXII9X]

I see people relentlessly shit on AA games, but rarely indie games.
Though its obnoxious how many indie games are incorporating "rogue-like" and "survival/crafting" elements. It kills me a bit inside every time I see an indie game get announced that is some rogue-like survival card-based game with crafting.

Same. I am always lost when people praise indies for being unique and innovative when a very large portion of them are what you described. I can see people loving indies a lot more if they love those kinds of genres/mechanics, but I don't.

AA games with polish and a budget behind them are my favorite. Stray, Sifu, Psychonauts 2, Kena, It Takes Two, Ori, Divinity Original Sin 2, Bugsnax, Cuphead, Hades, and the upcoming The Plucky Squire and Skate Story from Devolver Digital. fit that. Most indies that are praised are AA. Even the indie darling Journey is closer to AA. A lot of true indies aren't really pushing many boundaries, imo. There are A LOT of games in-between indie and your typical AAA release. A lot that gets great reception and love. Indies and AA games have been a huge thing since Xbox360 and PS3. Nintendo Handhelds were full of quality AA games. It seems like a lot of gamers woke up to other games other than AAA and have to sing the praises not knowing people have been playing non-AAA games for decades. Of course, they can be more than 8-bit depressing simulators.

 

[CS Lurker]

Indies are my thing since I played Braid in 2008.

 

[jigglet]

Tho, neither Stray, Kena, nor Sifu are indies. These are AA studios with publishers.

Why are people calling those indie to begin with?

Cause it fits his narrative.

 

[CitizenZ]

Same. I am always lost when people praise indies for being unique and innovative when a very large portion of them are what you described. I can see people loving indies a lot more if they love those kinds of genres/mechanics, but I don't.

AA games with polish and a budget behind them are my favorite. Stray, Sifu, Psychonauts 2, Kena, It Takes Two, Ori, Divinity Original Sin 2, Bugsnax, Cuphead, Hades, and the upcoming The Plucky Squire and Skate Story from Devolver Digital. fit that. Most indies that are praised are AA. Even the indie darling Journey is closer to AA. A lot of true indies aren't really pushing many boundaries, imo. There are A LOT of games in-between indie and your typical AAA release. A lot that gets great reception and love. Indies and AA games have been a huge thing since Xbox360 and PS3. Nintendo Handhelds were full of quality AA games. It seems like a lot of gamers woke up to other games other than AAA and have to sing the praises not knowing people have been playing non-AAA games for decades. Of course, they can be more than 8-bit depressing simulators.

Your not even talking about 2 mods who have owned the last decade and are the most influential in game design today. The scope of this site is so narrow it is depressing sometimes.

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

.

 

[JayK47]

Who says indies are crap? AAA games are in a slump. They cost too much to make, take too long to make, have massive scope creep, and have been playing it safe forever.

Indies take chances, and do a lot with a small team. Most of the best games in recent history are indies for me. At my age, I appreciate cheaper games that I can wrap up in less than 20 hours.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Tho, neither Stray, Kena, nor Sifu are indies. These are AA studios with publishers.

Why are people calling those indie to begin with?

Because they are independently owned game studios, that aren't owned and funded by a larger mega-corporation.

That's literally what "indie" is an abreviation for.

It's got nothing to do with the game budget or whether the game is self-published or not.

 

[BadBurger]

I don't get why some people are so anti-indie. They're more often than not merely games with smaller budgets (ignoring large indies like Valve, as that's not how "indie" is used by gamers in this sense), created by people with either complete creative freedom or are largely unrestrained by a publisher. One would think more gamers would be onboard with such endeavors. It's where some of the best ideas come from, inevitably adopted by larger studios and eventually perfected - or in the case of devs like Concerned Ape, such a smashing success that they can go on to evolve the formula themselves.

 

[It's all in the wrist]

I just went from Cyberpunk straight into Omori.

Play whatever the fuck you wanna play.

 

[Abriael_GN]

I don't see how people can say that they're awful in comparison to AAA games and then proceed to ignore the sizeable amount of really good looking indies. There is a sizeable number of people on this forum who constantly complain about how bad AAA is but won't accept indies because they 'look bad' or 'are all derivative of 8 bit games' or 'are all depression simulators' (ignoring the fact that 99% of indies are trying to help people get OVER depression, not encourage it)
Well guess what, Stray's out, it looks amazing, people like it, and if that's not enough for you, we've got Ravenlok, (which is coming out soon) Sifu, Kena, Cuphead, Ori, Skullgirls, A Hat in Time, Scorn (coming out soon as well), High on Life, (also coming out soon) and a whole lot more from where that came from.
These indies will become the AAA of the future (as evidenced by Returnal, which was the first AAA game from a primarily indie studio), the only way we can see newer, more interesting, less greedy developers is if we give them the support that they need.

It's hilarious that "indies" has gone from "made by an independent studio independently without the support of a publisher" to "not AAA"

PS: there's no need to prove that a premise that no one argues for is false. Plenty of *actually* indie games that are not that without going to scavenge for games that have the support of fairly sizable publishers.

 

[Kagey K]

It's hilarious that "indies" has gone from "made by an independent studio independently without the support of a publisher" to "not AAA"

I had this debate with someone last week. Basically most peopke that talk about hating indies and only like AAA games don't even know what they are.

Had to explain that most of the games they actually like are AA and indie doesn't mean pixel sidescroller.

Made me give up on trying to have any discussion with people on this subject.

 

[solidus12]

Add F.I.S.T to the list

 

[Abriael_GN]

I had this debate with someone last week. Basically most peopke that talk about hating indies and only like AAA games don't even know what they are.

Had to explain that most of the games they actually like are AA and indie doesn't mean pixel sidescroller.

Made me give up on trying to have any discussion with people on this subject.

Pixel sidescroller doesn't mean 8-bit depression simulator. The vast majority of indies don't focus on tech glitz, so it's fair to see it as a common theme, albeit like many themes, there are plenty of exceptions.

The problem here is that if we enlarge the definition too much, it easily loses its meaning and it simply becomes a marketing term (which some "indie-minded" publishers absolutely love to use). By some people's definitions anything done by CD Projekt, the Plague Tale series, the new Star Ocean, and many many more AA and even AAA games are "indies" because they're made by independently owned studios.

The truth is that "indie" started as a term of identity, and now it's has simply become marketing, basically losing its identity.

 

[Strider Highwind]

Yo Indie games have been my fave experiences over the past 6 or 7 years. Some of them capture the feeling of having a good time playing really dope games like the SNES-PS2 era..They take risks, aren't so copy/paste, and they're usually a great bit more challenging than the big budget games.

I like the variety offered with big games and indies nowadays.

 

[jm89]

If wasn't for Indies I think I wouldnt be gaming as much due to AAA fatigue.

 

[Chukhopops]

People really believed that indies were only that? Seems like they were severely biased or not very bright.

I find it puzzling how people get suddenly excited because of three indies over a year which just happen to be exclusives of the same brand (a coincidence of course).

Never mind the fact that those indies are neither the highest rated or most popular indies to come out last year… at least if it helped change people’s perception I guess it’s worth it.

 

[Bonfires Down]

I think the craziest thing is that almost all of us played games with indie level production values when we grew up. But now that's just not good enough anymore? Some people will outright refuse to play pixel art games.

 

[consoul]

I will never understand why some indie devs like using 8 bit or older style graphics.

I think it's often a case of limited resources rather than stylistic preference. 8 bit style visuals are achievable on lower budgets.

 

[DeliciousDoc]

AAA are the ones that all look and play the same, not indies.

 

[MrA]

Are people actually saying indies are awful though? That's not the feeling I get at all...at least from GAF.

They aren't the op is just a bit of a clown

 

[Crayon]

I'll also pass on the pixel graphics and metroidlikes. I'll play them once in awhile when I get wind of an exceptional one.

That's just me tho. There are so many great sub-aaa games. We are getting some like stray with good graphics now and that should encourage more people to branch out.