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[diffusionx]

This interview is super interesting, maybe the most interesting thing the leader of a console company has said in decades. It puts so much of MS' actions into context. Seems like their pitch to regulators ("we really suck in this market, and will continue to suck") on the A-B acquisition was not a bluff, and they really don't see themselves as a threat in the console market. Their goal is to become some sort of goliath publisher like Tencent with massive tentacles that just puts out tons of shit and rakes in money from anywhere. It makes me wonder why MS is even in the Xbox business as it seems like they could do this work much more successfully without selling a console, and putting all their stuff on PlayStation.

If you bought an Xbox expecting a typical console war slugfest with exclusives and stuff, and you got behind the acquisitions as part of that, then you just do not see eye-to-eye with MS. They're not playing that game. If anything, maybe Phil got the job because he said that he could turn the business around without having to do the classic "console war" business of outselling the other guy.

 

[Stare-Bear]

Jaffe ripping Phil a new asshole is just…

 

[staticshock]

I'm sorry Phil but i bought a xbox one in the last gen to play Quantum Break & Sunset Overdrive and bought a PS4 Pro 5 years later to play the last of us 2 and spiderman.
Games do actually matter. There hasn't been a single game from Xbox that I have wanted since Quantum Break. The only one being HellBlade 2.

They have run the same trash lineup each year (Forza, Gears, Halo).

While Sony created brand new or (not beat to death) line of games (Last of US, Horizon, Spiderman, Days Gone, God of War, Infamous Second Son, Ghost of Tsushima)

Now there's Spiderman 2 and Wolverine coming up.

Its called having a variety of high quality diverse games to play and attract new audiences and not the same thing on repeat.
Its what gave Netflix the crown. Their original TV shows / Movies.
Imagine if Netflix stopped making new originals and just continued pumping the same old franchises for the next 11 years?

Wake the f*ck up PHIL!!!!

 

[fart town usa]

If xbox leaves we're all fucked.
Arrogant phase of sony will skyrocket.
Psn $20 a month.
Games $80
There WILL be something hyper negative that will happen shortly after sony has a monopoly.
The same monopoly sony cried about with xbox and Activision.

I don't dislike sony at all, but I'm not a blind fool either.

So you're concerned about something that hasn't happened but by your own what-if scenario, you're already being fucked and apparently fine with it because Xbox is doing the dicking.

I only reply because I've seen these comments from others and they are dumb as can be. This is the stockholm syndrome that people speak of when it comes to gaming.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

People love to bring up when he said they view apple as competition, not Sony, as the need arises. He's literally just saying that they "are not in the business of out-consoling Sony or out-consoling Nintendo". It's the same thing.

I'm not seeing the "he admitted defeat" that the OP used in any context at all.

We can just agree to disagree

And I am not bringing up the Apple statement

 

[semiconscious]

history of xbox: hit the starting gate at a sprint (xbox/360), has yet to catch its second wind (xbox one/series)...

 

[SSfox]

Digital Libraries are basically for BC. The vast majority of people dont care about BC. This is one thing I agree with Jimbo on. All that hoopla over Xbox's amazing BC and no one gave a shit. PS5 still selling like hotcakes.

We have seen stats that most people dont even finish video games. Why the hell would most people go back and redownload a game they bought last gen? People move on and play the latest and greatest.

If Phil had released killer exclusives on launch then those same people who bought all those COD DLC maps on the 360 and switched to PS4 anyway wouldve switched back to Xbox.

With subscriptions like PS+ and Gamepass including virtually every older AAA game released is on these services for free anyway.

Exactly. I look back at Uncharted Drake's Fortune and as great as it was, it wasnt until Uncharted 2 came out did the series finally achieve its full potential. Same goes for Assassins Creed 1 to AC2, Demon Souls to Dark Souls, and Mass Effect 1 to Mass Effect 2. I cant believe MS never greenlit a Ryse 2, Sunset 2, Quantum Break 2, and straight up cancelled Coalitions New IP which they revealed at E3 2014 in trailer form. Insmoniac went on to achieve insane success with Spiderman, Remedy won awards for Control (imagine if that had been an MS exclusive) while Coalition were forced to develop derivative Gears sequels that didnt move the needle.

IDK if it's majority or but i love BC, thanks to my PC i can play some old school title that my PS4 and PS5 don't allow me to play , that i wish i could cause holy shit it can be a pain in the ass to play on PC (sometimes had to take 1 hours just to try to make the game properly work like it was intent, remind me why i largely prefer consoles over PC for gaming)

 

[Heisenberg007]

Even if they made the new "The Last of Us" or the new Witcher, things wouldn't change that much.

Things will change, of course.

How do you think things changed for Sony? They made the freakin' The Last of Us.

For the sake of convenience, imagine if the following games don't exist yet, and Xbox releases one of these every quarter, fully exclusive to Xbox (no PC or Game Pass):

• Year 1
  • Q1 = Ghost of Tsushima
  • Q2 = FFVII Remake
  • Q3 = Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart
  • Q4 = The Last of Us Part 1
• Year 2
  • Death Stranding
  • Elden Ring
  • Returnal
  • God of War
• Year 3
  • The Witcher 3
  • Forza Horizon 5
  • Red Dead Redemption 2
  • Spider-Man

You don't think 3 years of this cadence and quality of games will make a difference?

Just 3 years of great content like this, and people will flock out to buy the Series X console to play these games. They may or may not sell their PS5s, but that doesn't matter at that point. The more important goal is that people will purchase an Xbox and become a super-engaged Xbox player.

 

[adamsapple]

We can just agree to disagree

And I am not bringing up the Apple statement

Fair enough. Obviously some users interpretation is different than others. It should be reasonable to expect that in all discourse.

 

[Darsxx82]

E3 2009 was one for the ages with GOW, GT5, Uncharted 2, Heavy Rain and 256 player MAG blowing everyone away. And thats the difference. Despite Phil's insistence, they havent had an E3 like that in a decade or decade and a half. They have given gamers nothing to get excited over. Instead they went out and bought Minecraft for $3 billion. GOW apparently cost $200 million. Phil couldve made 15 GOW quality games with $3 billion.

Many mistakes, bad decisions or missed opportunities can be pointed out to P. Spencer... But hey! The Minecraft purchase is one of the most successful negotiations for MS in the last decade and the reason why Phil was named as CEO of MS second only to Nadella.

In large part you can be right, but I always believe that the specific situation of each moment must be put into perspective.

1- The XBO disaster was huge. MS was not in the economic health that it is today and XBOX business was in question at that time. They were 3 years of dead zone.

2- Until 2018 MS only had 5 Studios. AAA games require 4-5 years of development and more if you are a newly created Studio. Bethesda-Zenimax closed in mis 2021.

3-COVID

Right now, MS has 23 Studios, including some very TOP ones that add up to 30 or more projects in development without counting 2nd party agreements.
We already know the meme of "next year it will be", but we have to be equally ingenious in thinking that the games will never arrive.

My opinion is that this generation continues to have the bases to be the better Or most satisfactory in history for the user of the Xbox console in terms of first party regardless of the sales figures vs. PS5. The other issue is how many 3rd party exclusives Sony denied to Xbox users. But It Is not in MS hand.

Because, again, Phil is right, XBOX only with great games is not going to drastically change the sales trend. XBOX console deliver needs things beyond and his bet was ABK.

Personally, I want to see the movements of MS when the ABK thing ends. I think that, as difficult as it is, they are still limiting themselves in actions (purchase of new studios for example) and declarations before regulators and in upcoming appeals.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Now imagine being lunatic enough to think Xbox stands a chance or will ever be known for good games.

Stop bullying them you wanka or i'll force you to play redfall on the series s

 

[EviLore]

Sony is a much smaller company yet they provide considerable technical assistance to their partner studios. It pays off in a big way by bolstering their platform and building important relationships with devs that they may eventually acquire on good terms. Those existing relationships are very important, because acquisitions can easily prompt brain drain if the talent doesn’t want to work under the new big brother.

Microsoft throws around billions like it’s Monopoly money, but when it comes time to release anything it tends toward broken, unfinished messes. They have loads of talented engineers in their non-gaming divisions and could easily divert resources toward developing gaming related technologies and supporting their studios if the will were there. But instead they’re quick to spend on acquisitions but slow to get anything substantive done.

This is a leadership and strategy problem.

 

[Heisenberg007]

People love to bring up when he said they view apple as competition, not Sony, as the need arises. He's literally just saying that they "are not in the business of out-consoling Sony or out-consoling Nintendo". It's the same thing.

I'm not seeing the "he admitted defeat" that the OP used in any context at all.

"But this idea that if we just focused more on great games on our console, that somehow we're going to win the console race, I think doesn't really lay to the reality of most people." -- Phil Spencer

 

[RedC]

Because they have Microsoft money and they couldnt do it the other way.

OK? There isn't only one way to compete.

Yeah. It guarantees an IPs pipeline and plays in a field Nintendo and PlayStation couldn't match unless they were acquired by Apple or Amazon.

Not necessarily. The video game market is huge. There's enough room for all of them to coexist with wildly different business models.

It doesn't take 20 years to realize that they have more money than most every other company on the planet. They attempted to compete and could not. Now, buy everything

It wasn't that they realized they had more money that made them go in this direction. It wasn't until around 2016 when Phil finally came up with a plan that aligned and synergized with other pillars and successful business models of Microsoft and where they anticipated the market to expand, that convinced the CEO to go all in.

 

[Poltz]

The irony if that is true is Sony saying they can't by Activision because that's not fair they could get exclusivity to titles.

They don’t own the IPs and studios forever though.

 

[adamsapple]

"But this idea that if we just focused more on great games on our console, that somehow we're going to win the console race, I think doesn't really lay to the reality of most people." -- Phil Spencer

Pretty sure he's paraphrasing social media commentary here. His own stance was clear in the first line.

 

[hyperbertha]

You just love to see it. They tried to redefine gaming to a subscription cloud based abomination, and banked on being able to buy third party publishers left and right to put all the games on their platform. Look at what games are still putting the others ahead. Its NOT multiplayer, its NOT live service. go back to first party games with a focus on singleplayer. Remove subscription models.

 

[Kataploom]

So he dared to contradict Iwata?

Iwata literally publicly said the key to lock people in your ecosystem and he's refusing it?

"Software sells hardware"

Even if he says so because they want to get rid of consoles to stay on PC and cloud, it doesn't change a thing.

I'm getting same vibes I had with VR, they're investing too hard on something that won't work remotely close as they expected. VR wasn't even a fad and unless they literally have the solution to virtually eliminate latency in cloud gaming, it's gonna be the same story for cloud gaming for another decade at least.

I think he should resign to his position, but MS is probably the one forcing it's gaming division into services as all their other divisions are.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Pretty sure he's paraphrasing social media commentary here. His own stance was clear in the first line.

The paradigm he helped facilitate over the years with his influencer/shill camp.

 

[arkhamguy123]

Goddammit starfield. If it weren’t for you I’d have never gotten the series x or could just sell it and just be a PS5/Switch owner. Putting a couple hundred bucks in my pocket.

Now I gotta keep the rinky dink Xbox just for one game.

 

[Desprado123]

Sony is a much smaller company yet they provide considerable technical assistance to their partner studios. It pays off in a big way by bolstering their platform and building important relationships with devs that they may eventually acquire on good terms. Those existing relationships are very important, because acquisitions can easily prompt brain drain if the talent doesn’t want to work under the new big brother.

Microsoft throws around billions like it’s Monopoly money, but when it comes time to release anything it tends toward broken, unfinished messes. They have loads of talented engineers in their non-gaming divisions and could easily divert resources toward developing gaming related technologies and supporting their studios if the will were there. But instead they’re quick to spend on acquisitions but slow to get anything substantive done.

This is a leadership and strategy problem.

That's is not all. Even Vulkan is better than DX12.

Doom and Doom Eternal was massively running well due to Vulkan Api just RDR2.

Vulkan is a very small group of programmer but their API is better than DX12.

 

[kyussman]

I'm sure this interview will do great for next months Xbox console sales too.......meanwhile over in PlayStation land Jim Ryan drops a mainline FF game.......fucking hell!

 

[XXL]

To some of the people defending this....

One of the primary traits that separates winners from losers in life (in many aspects) is the belief in yourself that you can win with enough effort, drive and determination.

 

[Liamario]

He states that people are tied to whatever eco system they're in and xbox can't beat them, so we have to play our own game. He also concedes that that they can't compete on the quality of their games Vs the competition.

So they've nothing to offer then? And as others have said, they're just going to remove access to IPs or control them in order to remain competitive. Anti-consumer, but competitive.

 

[Magic Carpet]

Elden Ring was the last thing I bought on my Series X.
Said another way, Elden Ring is the last thing I will buy on my Series X.

Should have bought the damn game on Steam, I could have played it on my SteamDeck.

 

[arkhamguy123]

Oh also, call me crazy, but this is the last Xbox Gen with dedicated hardware. The last traditional Gen. I promise you it’ll just be the PS6 vs the switch 2. They will become a game’s publisher.

Another user here said something very realistic. They’ll just rebrand pc’s to Xbox. Like an Alienware type thing. I can see it, dozens of configurations. “Get your RTX 4060 Xbox or your RTX 4090 Xbox”. With the little X logo on the desktop and everything.

 

[Nydius]

The other issue is how many 3rd party exclusives Sony denied to Xbox users.

There’s the trademark persecution complex I’ve come to expect from Xbox zealots. Sony isn’t holding you down no matter how much you want to believe otherwise. You’re not a victim of persecution, you’re a victim of being scammed by Microsoft’s leadership.

Because, again, Phil is right, XBOX only with great games is not going to drastically change the sales trend.

No, he is NOT right. In my 40+ years of gaming, I can link every single console I’ve bought to GAMES that made me want to buy the system those games were on. Whether it was the SNES or Genesis, PSX or Saturn, Xbox or GameCube, and so on.

Games move consoles. Microsoft should know this from the first half of the X360 era. Coming out and saying great games won’t sell consoles is capitulation, admitting that they can’t create real system sellers anymore.

 

[rhodesianshepard]

As someone who has only owned a Playstation, I'm waiting for Xbox to deliver solid AAA games before I buy a Series S. It's a cheap enough system to get me into their ecosystem. Microsoft just hasn't had a killer AAA release that isn't Halo or Gears in forever. I'm hoping they invest in their own studios, and build up their own support structure. That is how you get quality and consistent games. But I get the feeling the higher ups at Microsoft would just rather buy up publishers because it's quicker

 

[Fart Knight]

Thats it Im selling all my Xbox stuff

 

[Die Namek Ability]

Nintendo has a different approach to consoles these days tho.
Microsoft could try the same, but it's extremely risky, as we also have seen in the past with Nintendo.

The Xbox 360, even tho vastly superior in almost every way to the PS3, still narrowly lost to it... I think that says a lot

If anything it says alot about you

 

[GHG]

So you're concerned about something that hasn't happened but by your own what-if scenario, you're already being fucked and apparently fine with it because Xbox is doing the dicking.

I only reply because I've seen these comments from others and they are dumb as can be. This is the stockholm syndrome that people speak of when it comes to gaming.

Yep, I fail to see how any of these "doom and gloom" scenarios are any worse than being charged $70 as a minimum for Redfall. They are already living the dystopian future they fear.

 

[Dr_Ifto]

Imagine being a multi billion dollar division in a company and everything depends on a single game, with a company known to release shoddy first iteration games.

 

[Dr_Ifto]

If anything it says alot about you

If they kept that momentum going, they could be the market leader today. They put the breaks on around 2009/2010

 

[Gexxy1]

The recipe for success isn't complicated, Phil:

1) Console needs a competitive price.
2) Good games you can't play anywhere else.

Every console that has succeeded has managed these. Those that have failed either had no games or were too expensive. Sometimes both.

You could also offer things that rival console makers do not. Gamepass is one such example, basically the only appealing aspect of the console right now. What about doing what Steam does and offer refunds to customers who bought games they did not like? That would certainly motivate me to consider one.

 

[Sethbacca]

Don't cry we still have GamePass.

I don't want to actually play games, I just want to have the best value.

 

[DEAD ORIGINAL]

Xbox 360 was brilliant from 2005 to 2010 then they focused on kinect that's when the rot started had they focused on games instead they would be hitting the 100mil club

 

[saintjules]

I love these bits

 

[mckmas8808]

Previous nintendo console sold 13 million units. Solidly third place.

Just saying.

THIS.....THIS.......THIS!!!!

 

[Sethbacca]

Even if they made the new "The Last of Us" or the new Witcher, things wouldn't change that much.

This is absolutely absurdity. You're telling me if they didn't release a string of bangers and have a history of providing quality games, that people wouldn't consider making an Xbox their primary console in the next gen? I mean, sure you have your console warriors but most of us aren't that deeply entrenched.

 

[DJ12]

"But this idea that if we just focused more on great games on our console, that somehow we're going to win the console race, I think doesn't really lay to the reality of most people." -- Phil Spencer

Gives new light to the quote he doesn't see Sony and Nintendo as competitors.

People thought its because amazon, Google and meta where the target, turns out its just that's who they thought they could actually beat.

 

[Banjo64]

Sony is a much smaller company yet they provide considerable technical assistance to their partner studios. It pays off in a big way by bolstering their platform and building important relationships with devs that they may eventually acquire on good terms. Those existing relationships are very important, because acquisitions can easily prompt brain drain if the talent doesn’t want to work under the new big brother.

Microsoft throws around billions like it’s Monopoly money, but when it comes time to release anything it tends toward broken, unfinished messes. They have loads of talented engineers in their non-gaming divisions and could easily divert resources toward developing gaming related technologies and supporting their studios if the will were there. But instead they’re quick to spend on acquisitions but slow to get anything substantive done.

This is a leadership and strategy problem.

From Spencer's interview today he's talking about Arkane and the fact that
A. Xbox weren't quick enough to provide Arkane with their expectations as a first party dev team.
B. Xbox weren't quick enough to offer studios like Rare and the Coalition to assist when Arkane ran in to engine troubles.
C. Arkane had a lot of autonomy in terms of control.

How is this even happening? You are Xbox, you are funding the project, you set the expectations, when you play this game and it is shit you instruct Arkane that they will be linking in with X, Y and Z. You don't just fucking wait and see if Arkane fancy seeking support. You tell them.

This is just confirming all of the speculation that they are too hands off and that certain devs (that need the whip) will do terribly under this strategy.

 

[Fabieter]

but the CMA at least already agreed that the console argument from sony doesn't work. so it would be a weird appeal to them

I mean he also mentioned gamepass and cloud. He basically said that they needed gamepass and cloud to surive because they are third place in consoles.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

From Spencer's interview today he's talking about Arkane and the fact that
A. Xbox weren't quick enough to provide Arkane with their expectations as a first party dev team.
B. Xbox weren't quick enough to offer studios like Rare and the Coalition to assist when Arkane ran in to engine troubles.
C. Arkane had a lot of autonomy in terms of control.

How is this even happening? You are Xbox, you are funding the project, you set the expectations, when you play this game and it is shit you instruct Arkane that they will be linking in with X, Y and Z. You don't just fucking wait and see if Arkane fancy seeking support. You tell them.

This is just confirming all of the speculation that they are too hands off and that certain devs (that need the whip) will do terribly under this strategy.

Quick enough to cancel the PS5 port though lol

 

[GrayFoxPL]

I think Phil Spencer is just the scapegoat. He probably has more chains on his collar than he can count.

The bosses at MS probably said: "It's over. Pack it up."

The notion that the decision is Phil Spencer's doing is comical. No one is above someone else's pay grade. He probably had nothing to say in the matter. Maybe apart of:

"Uhh...Okay."

Shame Xbox OG had an amazing line up of Sega titles. 360 a success story for MS had nice games too. Not as badass as Sega's on OG Xbox but not bad. He's not entirely wrong on the "great games don't sell consoles" bit. Og Xbox had great games and sold like shit. Just like Dreamcast before.

 

[Bragr]

I do not really agree with that:
Via Bethesda Xbox has Franchises like Elder Scrolls, Fallout, Starfield and Doom. And via Obsidian they also have games like Avowed. And don't forget their stables like Halo.
I am sure when those games come with a Metacritic score of round about 90, those will sell boxes.

But when will those games come? I expect Elder Scrolls, Fallout and the next Halo coming next generation, and such too late to have an impact on the PS5/Xbox Series generation.
At the beginning of next generation the potential buyers saw the current generation, know if they were happy with the box they purchased and what was coming for the other box. With the "great games don't matter" thinking many won't go the XBox route then.

He didn't say great games don't matter, you guys are twisting his words, he said that Xbox follows a different plan than the other big two because they can't compete head-to-head with exclusives. They are already so far behind Playstation and Nintendo in terms of quality top-tier exclusives that they can never catch up if they focus on first-party alone, that's why they got Game Pass, to offer something different.

They release everything on PC, that's why these games will never sell the sort of console numbers they need. It's a conscious choice on their part to offer cross-platform support, something Nintendo and Playstation do not offer, that's how they compete, by going in another direction.

The real console sellers are things like Call of Duty and sports games, or else you need a library of great games that people are invested in. And as he stated, the offering on Nintendo's and Playstation's ecosystems of games is too far ahead in this regard.

Stuff like Elder Scrolls and Fallout might change the picture, but these games are years and years away. And frankly, the best possible Elder Scrolls is still not gonna sell a fraction of consoles compared to something like Animal Crossing. Halo and Gears are not console sellers anymore on the scale they need.

That said, games are the backbone of the service, it's not like they are gonna not make great games, it's ultimately what they want and what's gonna grow Game Pass.

 

[Badlucktroll]

I don’t think they should have bought Zenimax

 

[64bitmodels]

How to make Xbox competitive. 1 stop putting games on pc.

 

[Interfectum]

I can't even imagine being an xbox influencer right now... ya gotta try your arguments into knots to justify what Phil just said.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Also this just gives credence to people saying they should have focused more on managing themselves before acquiring anyone else

They obviously don't have a real pipeline set up to properly support and manage their developers. Now they have to do that while the devs are currently in a free for all.

 

[balls of snow]

For every Haze and Lair, they had Uncharted, Resistance, Killzone, Warhawk, Motorstorm, Ratchet and Resistance.

There is this really big misconception that sony only started to turn it around after Uncharted 2 hit which couldnt be farther from the truth. go look at the metacritic scores of KZ2, Uncharted, Infamous, Ratchet, LBP, MGS4 and Resistance games. All in the high 80s or 90s.

I remember exactly when the PS3 caught fire. It was E3 2007 when the revealed KZ2 and it looked better than anything out there. Then Uncharted Drake's Fortune and Ratchet came out and showed everyone that the cell wasnt some trash piece of hardware. It went toe to toe with Mass Effect and Bioshock, two of the best looking games on the 360, and this was in 2007. By E3 2008, Sony was showing 60 player multiplayer games like Resistance 2, revealing new IPs like Infamous and Heavy Rain. then MGS4 came out in summer of 2008 and got 10s from everyone except for Eurogamer and Edge which caused a lot of commotion, but it ended up winning several GOTY awards in a very competitive year. LBP released in 2008 to wide acclaim.

E3 2009 was one for the ages with GOW, GT5, Uncharted 2, Heavy Rain and 256 player MAG blowing everyone away. And thats the difference. Despite Phil's insistence, they havent had an E3 like that in a decade or decade and a half. They have given gamers nothing to get excited over. Instead they went out and bought Minecraft for $3 billion. GOW apparently cost $200 million. Phil couldve made 15 GOW quality games with $3 billion.

I hear you. Just that it was a tangible force of change in mindshare when that uncharted 2 demo was revealed at that e3. Suddenly it was ps3 this and that over on gamespot and ign which I religiously follow back then. Before that it was gears and halo balls to the wall coverage.