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[MikeM]

Nowadays with fsr2 and dynamic res, its relatively easy to avoid gpu bottleneck, will be even easier on ps5pr0 with next gen games, think of it like this, 30fps game, cpu and gpu heavy aka next gen only, and it has to run on hardware close to rx 7800xt/rx 4070 gpu wise, but cpu wise its similar/bit weaker from old trusty r7 3700x that even when it launched, mid 2019, wasnt fastest cpu around

If a game runs fine with the current cpu, and you upgrade the GPU for more baseline res and higher settings, so long as they still mainly hammer the GPU then the cpu remains sufficient.
If anything, upscaling will be less of an issue as the baseline should be higher on stronger GPUs.

 

[PeteBull]

If a game runs fine with the current cpu, and you upgrade the GPU for more baseline res and higher settings, so long as they still mainly hammer the GPU then the cpu remains sufficient.
If anything, upscaling will be less of an issue as the baseline should be higher on stronger GPUs.

exactly, but 30 to 60fps is 2x more strain on cpu too, not just gpu, hence for games like gta6 or any cpu heavy game(not in 100% scenarios but often enough) dont expect pr0 to magically take us from 30 to 60fps, it will simply be smoother/no dips fps but not 2x framerate

 

[bitbydeath]

Cpu in ps5pr0 is supposed to be same zen2 just with bit higher clocks, if game gonna dip on base ps5 below 30, u wont get 40fps on pr0, again according to the leaks, who knows, maybe they are all wrong and we getting not 60 to 70% stronger gpu and 10-15% higher clocked same zen2 cpu but some bigger leap, but if not- manage ur expectaction xD

Again use simple math, say ps5 base cpu is bottleneck in gta6 and game dips to 25fps in cpu heavy scenario, ofc 99% of the game it holds solid 30, now to get those 25fps to 40fps u need additional 15fps, and 15/25th is 60% faster cpu, unless u get 60% faster cpu in ps5pr0 then u can forget about stable 40fps mode on pr0 if base ps5 has dips to 25fps.

Looks like ps5pr0 wont be second coming of jesus, it will be still very worth buying, i myself gonna buy it ofc if not day1 then definitely in time for gta6, since it looks for now like timed console exclusive, majority gaffers will probably buy it too, but lets make it knowledgeable purchase- if we manage our expectations sony wont underdeliver.

All games? 99% of games have had a 60FPS option on the base. The Pro would use the GPU to build on graphics with the existing 60FPS.

 

[ChiefDada]

exactly, but 30 to 60fps is 2x more strain on cpu too, not just gpu, hence for games like gta6 or any cpu heavy game(not in 100% scenarios but often enough) dont expect pr0 to magically take us from 30 to 60fps, it will simply be smoother/no dips fps but not 2x framerate

I don't think this is true in most cases. Most of the Sony 1st party games are gpu limited especially in fidelity mode. I can see most of these titles getting to 60fps easily with more raster grunt and dedicated RT. That's why I don’t understand the assumption that zen 2 cpu isn't satisfactory for ps5 pro. The main reason we're discussing CPU limitation is UE5 which inhave decided to designate as a trash engine from a performance perspective until further notice. People are just assuming GTA 6 will be cpu limited on base consoles but we don't know yet.

 

[MikeM]

exactly, but 30 to 60fps is 2x more strain on cpu too, not just gpu, hence for games like gta6 or any cpu heavy game(not in 100% scenarios but often enough) dont expect pr0 to magically take us from 30 to 60fps, it will simply be smoother/no dips fps but not 2x framerate

You don’t know that. GTA6 won’t be out for another couple years.

This reminds me of Plague Tale Requiem where people said that the game CPU limited etc. It launched with a 30fps mode, then a 40 and 60 mode, and now has a 120fps that runs anywhere from 70-110fps. Yes they paired down the rat count, but it goes to show that you can find wins to make higher fps modes possible if you are limited regardless of whether its on the CPU or GPU side.

 

[Zathalus]

Zen4c would be mostly pointless. If you are CPU limited to 30fps then a Zen4c CPU at 4.5Ghz won't get you anywhere near 60fps.

 

[playsaves3]

I don't think this is true in most cases. Most of the Sony 1st party games are gpu limited especially in fidelity mode. I can see most of these titles getting to 60fps easily with more raster grunt and dedicated RT. That's why I don’t understand the assumption that zen 2 cpu isn't satisfactory for ps5 pro. The main reason we're discussing CPU limitation is UE5 which inhave decided to designate as a trash engine from a performance perspective until further notice. People are just assuming GTA 6 will be cpu limited on base consoles but we don't know yet.

Rt has a cpu cost.

 

[ChiefDada]

Rt has a cpu cost.

Yes but like I said we are currently gpu bottlenecked right now.

 

[playsaves3]

Zen4c would be mostly pointless. If you are CPU limited to 30fps then a Zen4c CPU at 4.5Ghz won't get you anywhere near 60fps.

But maybe zen 5 could

 

[playsaves3]

Yes but like I said we are currently gpu bottlenecked right now.

Not in all games ratchet and clanks performance rt mode doesn’t lock to 120 cause of cpu

 

[ChiefDada]

Not in all games ratchet and clanks performance rt mode doesn’t lock to 120 cause of cpu

Who the heck is demanding locked 120fps on a console for graphic intensive games? That would be such a waste to design a mid gen console around, especially in the era of VRR.

Let's not move the goalposts. People have been asking for the fidelity modes they've been playing to run at a locked 60fps. A gpu-focused mid gen upgrade will get us there and a bit more.

 

[ChiefDada]

MLiD just dropped a video backing what I've been saying about Zen 2 being sufficient. He is capable of great videos when he focuses on reasoning.

 

[PeteBull]

Lets just take a step back and actually see what cpu in current gen consoles is capable of, thats r7 3700x, just with much lower frequency, and less cache, think of it as a laptop version(console form factor makes sense coz of that, aka power/heat restrains) of desktop r7 3700x.



And thats just vs r7 7700x, which is much slower from 7800x3d which is current top cpu.

And about some games being gpu bottlenecked- food for thought, fully last gen/cross gen god of war ragnarok, that holds stable 30 on base ps4, cant hold anywhere close to stable 120 on ps5 even in 1440p, thats coz of major cpu bottleneck, and we not talking gta6 here, but last gen game at its roots, described like that by its own dev


Look at that framerate in high fps mode, it dips below 80 very often not coz of gpu bottleneck, but coz cpu is far from enough to hold stable 120, gpu gap between base ps4 and base ps5 is close to 6x difference(1,8tf vs 10,2tf, even if we dont account for architectural imrpovements which obviously arent small), but cpu gap is at max 3x, otherwise we wouldnt get dips under 80 in high fps mode.

And now question is- does sony santa monica dev studio arent S-tier devs who cant harness the power of ps5, or rather- its fricken weaksauce coz cant do ps4 game in 120fps, coz of cpu bottleneck ?
Its either this or that, coz dev studio didnt lack time nor resources to do it, aka not a budget issue.

And once gta6 hits and is actually at graphical fidelity and complexity of its trailer(not talking those cgi alike fragments that looked like taken from gta6 tv/its version of yt/tik tok, but the ones that look like in engine cutscenes), it will force ps5base/xsx to its knees easily, xss will look like vaseline smeared all over it, we can tell already just by comparing matrix demo between ps5/xsx and xss, difference was crazy big.

Those current gen consoles are still boxes with finite power, as proven by so many games already, and from respectable devs, not some c-tier teams who barely know how to code.

 

[ChiefDada]

And about some games being gpu bottlenecked- food for thought, fully last gen/cross gen god of war ragnarok, that holds stable 30 on base ps4, cant hold anywhere close to stable 120 on ps5 even in 1440p, thats coz of major cpu bottleneck, and we not talking gta6 here, but last gen game at its roots, described like that by its own dev

Lol it's running locked 1440p with most visual settings retained. That doesn’t suggest cpu bottleneck at all! It's still gpu limited.

 

[PeteBull]

Lol it's running locked 1440p with most visual settings retained. That doesn’t suggest cpu bottleneck at all! It's still gpu limited.

Lets just use logic, if they could get to 120fps stable, not dips below 80, they would lower res to 1080p to achieve that. but since cpu is bottleneck anyways they kept 1440p coz it still doesnt affect framerate.

 

[PeteBull]

Oh, and thats what happens when current gen consoles are actually heavily cpu bottlenecked btw, Baldur's Gate 3, that recently won goty , look how nasty it dips in both performance and quality mode in big city area


Now another question is- will gta6 have less complexity/npc density and overall cpu requirements, or way more? U guys answer that question to urself, no way it will run 60fps on consoles, not even stable 40 will be possible, if leaked specs of ps5pr0 are confirmed to be true(60-70% bump in gpu raster, slight overclock on cpu frequency).

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Lets just use logic, if they could get to 120fps stable, not dips below 80, they would lower res to 1080p to achieve that. but since cpu is bottleneck anyways they kept 1440p coz it still doesnt affect framerate.

What you are saying is more conjecture than anything else. The fact that they turned down visual assets suggests that the limitation is a GPU one, not a CPU one.

Using logic....

Anyways, these recent round of leaks confirms what I have been saying, that the PS5pro would likely still be using zen2, and me trying to remind people that the PS5pro is not like a PC trying to hit 144hz or 240hz, no, it's trying to run at 60fps in fidelity mode and anywhere from 80-120fps in performance mode using a lower rez and VRR, And while we may all be fantasizing about zen4, the PS5pro just doesn't need it to do what its designed to do.

I have always said that their focus would be on things like RT, maybe more cache, or some other kinda feature (in this case that seems to be the AI stuff) because those things would do more for their games than just having more CPU/GPU compute.

All of the above always just felt like the smarter more measured approach to me... hell, it's what I would have done if I were them.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Oh, and thats what happens when current gen consoles are actually heavily cpu bottlenecked btw, Baldur's Gate 3, that recently won goty , look how nasty it dips in both performance and quality mode in big city area


Now another question is- will gta6 have less complexity/npc density and overall cpu requirements, or way more? U guys answer that question to urself, no way it will run 60fps on consoles, not even stable 40 will be possible, if leaked specs of ps5pr0 are confirmed to be true(60-70% bump in gpu raster, slight overclock on cpu frequency).

Please, have you been following the improvements made to the performance of the game from the subsequent patches, patches 3, 4.... etc. Even on the PC it was having CPU issues that have been continually improved.

Lets not call poor optimization a representation of hardware performance.

 

[Clintizzle]

Can anyone explain optimization to me like im 5. Optimization for consoles specifically.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

There you go

 

[SABRE220]

Zen4c would be mostly pointless. If you are CPU limited to 30fps then a Zen4c CPU at 4.5Ghz won't get you anywhere near 60fps.

It would hardly be pointless you might want to watch digital foundries cpu comparison of the consoles and pc cpus, zen4 eclipsed the console cpus by more than 2x so yes 60fps would be a very real target if zen4c replaced the current cpus.

 

[MT231290]

still don't understand why the gpu clock is only 2 Ghz which is slower than ps5 in the leak?

 

[TheRedRiders]

still don't understand why the gpu clock is only 2 Ghz which is slower than ps5 in the leak?

No way in hell it's going to be 2ghz - that leak was fake in my opinion, I also think Keplar debunked it.

 

[Zathalus]

It would hardly be pointless you might want to watch digital foundries cpu comparison of the consoles and pc cpus, zen4 eclipsed the console cpus by more than 2x so yes 60fps would be a very real target if zen4c replaced the current cpus.

Zen 2 -> Zen4c is about a 30% IPC increase. Combine that with a 30% clock speed boost and you get to about 50fps if Zen 2 was limiting you to 30fps. It will require Zen 5 at least to get the 60fps lock and I don't see Sony spending that much on a mid gen refresh.

 

[PeteBull]

Can anyone explain optimization to me like im 5. Optimization for consoles specifically.

Here good example of "optimisation" for switch sometimes hardware flaws are simply too great.
Aka u cut as much as possible of demanding features till hardware has no problem running it at desired res/framerate/setting, ofc in gaming utopia u only cut things that are invisible or barely visible to players so game still looks good/barely downgraded, yet in actual real world things arent going so smoothly, usually.

Point im trying to make is for all of us to not jump on the hype and instead to have somewhat realistic expectactions, ps5pr0 jump from base ps5 wont be like ps1 to ps2 jump, it wont even be as big as ps4 to ps4pr0 jump, knowing that- we can roughly estimate what we gonna get and we wont curse at the hardware/games for them not being something they simply could never be in the first place.

It will still be great console and very worth purchasing(unlike xss, that was always such a terrible deal, despite all the lies many techtubers/techsites fed u, like DF here those guys, being techsavy nerds, knew all along series s is shitty underpowered junk not woth 300$ yet they recommended it, many other "professional journos" did too, not to mention youtubers/incluencers- aka cheaply paid advertisers).

This gen they got terrible bias towards microsoft, dunno for what reason, but we all can guess- at the very least exclusive/preferential treatment from microsoft results in same preferential treatment/bias given to their products- and only ppl who suffer from that are poor future xbox owners, especially series s owners, who didnt know any better but believed all those lies.

We here as hardcore gaming crowd ofc should know better, hopefully- just so we wont get dissapointed later

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Here good example of "optimisation" for switch sometimes hardware flaws are simply too great.
Aka u cut as much as possible of demanding features till hardware has no problem running it at desired res/framerate/setting, ofc in gaming utopia u only cut things that are invisible or barely visible to players so game still looks good/barely downgraded, yet in actual real world things arent going so smoothly, usually.

Dont listen to this my guy... this is not what optimization means.

Can anyone explain optimization to me like im 5. Optimization for consoles specifically.

Optimization like you are 5? Ok.. easy. You recode the game to fit the hardware. Taking note of, or advantage of its weaknesses and strengths respectively. Thats it.

As you can imagine, this can get all kinds of complicated. What our friend above suggested, is actually the laziest form/approach to optimization. Sometimes, however, if the gulf between the target hardware and the OG hardware is too much, it may also be the only option.

 

[Loxus]

I have no idea why someone would defend Zen2.

I mean, we are getting the latest test from the GPU and possibly the NPU. The CPU shouldn't be left out.


PlayStation 5 uncovered: the Mark Cerny tech deep dive
PlayStation 4 Pro was built to deliver higher performance than its base counterpart in order to open the door to 4K display support, but compatibility was key. A 'butterfly' GPU configuration was deployed which essentially doubled up on the graphics core, but clock speeds aside, the CPU had to remain the same - the Zen core was not an option. For PS5, extra logic is added to the RDNA 2 GPU to ensure compatibility with PS4 and PS4 Pro, but how about the CPU side of the equation?

"All of the game logic created for Jaguar CPUs works properly on Zen 2 CPUs, but the timing of execution of instructions can be substantially different," Mark Cerny tells us. "We worked with AMD to customise our particular Zen 2 cores; they have modes in which they can more closely approximate Jaguar timing. We're keeping that in our back pocket, so to speak, as we proceed with the backwards compatibility work."


So extra logic was added to the PS5,s GPU and for the CPU, it's the timing. They have to do more work with the GPU than the CPU. If Sony is using RDNA3.5, they might as well use Zen5/Zen5c.

 

[rnlval]

Where have you been? You think PS5 Pro is RDNA 2 based?



Even if this leak ends up being FUD, it's general expectation PS5 Pro will have dedicated RT HW hinted by Tom Henderson article, hence my insistence on not focusing on TF number

I'm aware that PS5's GPU is missing certain RDNA2 features. Both PS5 and XSX have RDNA 2 RT designs and they are aging.

You're a known Playstation hater so I don't know why you're here acting like you're impartial.

Facts: Nvidia has fewer issues when scaling its GPU designs with class-leading compute density.

Supporting both Wave32 and legacy Wave64 GCN instruction sets has higher instruction handling complexity.

RDNA 2 RT design is aging and that's not anti-PS5.

You can't handle the truth.

 

[Physiognomonics]

I have no idea why someone would defend Zen2.

I mean, we are getting the latest test from the GPU and possibly the NPU. The CPU shouldn't be left out.


PlayStation 5 uncovered: the Mark Cerny tech deep dive
PlayStation 4 Pro was built to deliver higher performance than its base counterpart in order to open the door to 4K display support, but compatibility was key. A 'butterfly' GPU configuration was deployed which essentially doubled up on the graphics core, but clock speeds aside, the CPU had to remain the same - the Zen core was not an option. For PS5, extra logic is added to the RDNA 2 GPU to ensure compatibility with PS4 and PS4 Pro, but how about the CPU side of the equation?

"All of the game logic created for Jaguar CPUs works properly on Zen 2 CPUs, but the timing of execution of instructions can be substantially different," Mark Cerny tells us. "We worked with AMD to customise our particular Zen 2 cores; they have modes in which they can more closely approximate Jaguar timing. We're keeping that in our back pocket, so to speak, as we proceed with the backwards compatibility work."


So extra logic was added to the PS5,s GPU and for the CPU, it's the timing. They have to do more work with the GPU than the CPU. If Sony is using RDNA3.5, they might as well use Zen5/Zen5c.

I can see you are disappointed about Zen 2 but you should accept it. Kepler almost confirmed we'll get Zen 2. Sony have probably good reasons to keep Zen 2 CPU. For now we can only speculate about those reasons and maybe we'll eventually learn about the actual truth later.

My point is that Sony (well probably Cerny) have probably good reasons to keep Zen 2 on PS5 Pro.

 

[rnlval]

Yes and Nvidia breaks out FLOP performance for shader cores, RT cores, and tensor cores.

The table hides integer CUDA cores for Turing. 14.2 TIOPS + 14.2 TFLOPS for RTX 2080 Ti's CUDA. In terms of TIOPS, RTX 2080 Ti and RTX 3070 are similar.

In Ampere, the integer CUDA core also handles floating point formats.

 

[noonjam]

 

[Clear]

Seems to me that people are missing the point of a PS5 Pro. Its not there to be a next gen alternative, its there to provide performance uplift to PS5 titles in such a way that is minimally intrusive to developers.

There is no precedent to assume that anything is going to be Pro only this time either, so the priority is conformity with the existing hardware/software.

 

[Loxus]

I can see you are disappointed about Zen 2 but you should accept it. Kepler almost confirmed we'll get Zen 2. Sony have probably good reasons to keep Zen 2 CPU. For now we can only speculate about those reasons and maybe we'll eventually learn about the actual truth later.

My point is that Sony (well probably Cerny) have probably good reasons to keep Zen 2 on PS5 Pro.

Kepler said many things that he got wrong.
You just have to look at his tweet history.

Not to mention, not one leaker got the PS5 specs right.

 

[rnlval]

You don't polish a turd. The problem of XSX is the fact that they pushed CU number by SA on a GPU architecture designed for quite lower amount of CUs by SA which was good for a server selling compute, but not optimal for gaming. The whole cache pipeline is not designed for so much compute. A slight overclock won't change that. And even for XB1 it was actually interesting to overclock because the esram benefitted from it, that won't be the case here.

And they won't increase ram as that would be quite expensive with not much improvements except in a few games. Might as well design a whole new APU having RDNA4 RT in the first place. This is where all the main improvements (thanks to hardware BHT traversal) will come from on PS5 Pro anyways.

XSX's 320-bit bus wasn't a true 80 ROP 320-bit scaling, hence it has a higher bias towards the Async-TMU read-write path and less to Sync-ROPS read-write units.

The main point with Async Compute is to use the TMU read-write path to overcome the ROPS bottleneck.

 

[playsaves3]

Who the heck is demanding locked 120fps on a console for graphic intensive games? That would be such a waste to design a mid gen console around, especially in the era of VRR.

Let's not move the goalposts. People have been asking for the fidelity modes they've been playing to run at a locked 60fps. A gpu-focused mid gen upgrade will get us there and a bit more.

Not in all games is the problem Spider-Man gets more cpu demanding the higher the res especially with rt

 

[playsaves3]

What you are saying is more conjecture than anything else. The fact that they turned down visual assets suggests that the limitation is a GPU one, not a CPU one.

Using logic....

Anyways, these recent round of leaks confirms what I have been saying, that the PS5pro would likely still be using zen2, and me trying to remind people that the PS5pro is not like a PC trying to hit 144hz or 240hz, no, it's trying to run at 60fps in fidelity mode and anywhere from 80-120fps in performance mode using a lower rez and VRR, And while we may all be fantasizing about zen4, the PS5pro just doesn't need it to do what its designed to do.

I have always said that their focus would be on things like RT, maybe more cache, or some other kinda feature (in this case that seems to be the AI stuff) because those things would do more for their games than just having more CPU/GPU compute.

All of the above always just felt like the smarter more measured approach to me... hell, it's what I would have done if I were them.

You can’t have better ray tracing without a better cpu you are aware rt has a coy cost almost as big as the gpu one right?

 

[playsaves3]

What you are saying is more conjecture than anything else. The fact that they turned down visual assets suggests that the limitation is a GPU one, not a CPU one.

Using logic....

Anyways, these recent round of leaks confirms what I have been saying, that the PS5pro would likely still be using zen2, and me trying to remind people that the PS5pro is not like a PC trying to hit 144hz or 240hz, no, it's trying to run at 60fps in fidelity mode and anywhere from 80-120fps in performance mode using a lower rez and VRR, And while we may all be fantasizing about zen4, the PS5pro just doesn't need it to do what its designed to do.

I have always said that their focus would be on things like RT, maybe more cache, or some other kinda feature (in this case that seems to be the AI stuff) because those things would do more for their games than just having more CPU/GPU compute.

All of the above always just felt like the smarter more measured approach to me... hell, it's what I would have done if I were them.

There is also no reason we can’t have a cpu upgrade on top of additional features like ai. Think of it this way if we actually got a zen 4 3d/zen 5 we could guarantee 60 on every game as well as use ai to amp it to 120

 

[playsaves3]

Please, have you been following the improvements made to the performance of the game from the subsequent patches, patches 3, 4.... etc. Even on the PC it was having CPU issues that have been continually improved.

Lets not call poor optimization a representation of hardware performance.

That still means they have to improve the cpu utilization and it wasn’t strong enough to do the task in the previous state a better cpu can go against that

 

[Elog]

You can’t have better ray tracing without a better cpu you are aware rt has a coy cost almost as big as the gpu one right?

The challenge with graphic workstreams that utilize the CPU extensively (such as RT) is primarily not peak computational power of the CPU (or a CPU core). It is that it increases the amount of traffic between CPU and the GPU to the extent that the traffic becomes rate limiting in itself. This means that timing/synchronization between CPU and GPU, and I/O grow exponentially in importance for any given FPS output.

 

[playsaves3]

It would hardly be pointless you might want to watch digital foundries cpu comparison of the consoles and pc cpus, zen4 eclipsed the console cpus by more than 2x so yes 60fps would be a very real target if zen4c replaced the current cpus.

Realistically it would be zen 4d or zen 5 if it gets upgraded which is even better.

 

[playsaves3]

E

The challenge with graphic workstreams that utilize the CPU extensively (such as RT) is primarily not peak computational power of the CPU (or a CPU core). It is that it increases the amount of traffic between CPU and the GPU to the extent that the traffic becomes rate limiting in itself. This means that timing/synchronization between CPU and GPU, and I/O grow exponentially in importance for any given FPS output.

Exactly. I can easily see an instance where if these specs are real the pro gpu has way more than enough gpu grunt to handle a certain rt task but the cpu can’t do it at least at not at more than 30fps

 

[playsaves3]

Zen 2 -> Zen4c is about a 30% IPC increase. Combine that with a 30% clock speed boost and you get to about 50fps if Zen 2 was limiting you to 30fps. It will require Zen 5 at least to get the 60fps lock and I don't see Sony spending that much on a mid gen refresh.

They could use zen 4 3d or zen 5 I was always the person who said using zen 5 feels like destiny cause of when it’s releasing.

 

[playsaves3]

Here good example of "optimisation" for switch sometimes hardware flaws are simply too great.
Aka u cut as much as possible of demanding features till hardware has no problem running it at desired res/framerate/setting, ofc in gaming utopia u only cut things that are invisible or barely visible to players so game still looks good/barely downgraded, yet in actual real world things arent going so smoothly, usually.

Point im trying to make is for all of us to not jump on the hype and instead to have somewhat realistic expectactions, ps5pr0 jump from base ps5 wont be like ps1 to ps2 jump, it wont even be as big as ps4 to ps4pr0 jump, knowing that- we can roughly estimate what we gonna get and we wont curse at the hardware/games for them not being something they simply could never be in the first place.

It will still be great console and very worth purchasing(unlike xss, that was always such a terrible deal, despite all the lies many techtubers/techsites fed u, like DF here those guys, being techsavy nerds, knew all along series s is shitty underpowered junk not woth 300$ yet they recommended it, many other "professional journos" did too, not to mention youtubers/incluencers- aka cheaply paid advertisers).

This gen they got terrible bias towards microsoft, dunno for what reason, but we all can guess- at the very least exclusive/preferential treatment from microsoft results in same preferential treatment/bias given to their products- and only ppl who suffer from that are poor future xbox owners, especially series s owners, who didnt know any better but believed all those lies.

We here as hardcore gaming crowd ofc should know better, hopefully- just so we wont get dissapointed later

It’s not acceptable for the ps5 pro to not have at least as big a jump as the ps4 pro when unlike the ps4 pro which stayed the same price the ps5 pro will be bare minimum $100 more expensive than the original base model (could be as much as $200 more) on top of also coming out 4 years later instead of 3. We should be expecting a bit more of anything

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

You can’t have better ray tracing without a better cpu you are aware rt has a coy cost almost as big as the gpu one right?

Yes. And there is more to this than that, but not gonna get into this.

There is also no reason we can’t have a cpu upgrade on top of additional features like ai. Think of it this way if we actually got a zen 4 3d/zen 5 we could guarantee 60 on every game as well as use ai to amp it to 120

There is more to upgrading a CPU than just higher clocks or better all-around IPC. In the case of the PS5, going from 3.5Ghz to 4.4Ghz is a decent boost. And if they pair that with more cache, then you are not going to be looking at just a 25% boost, it would be more akin to having a 35-40% boost.

That still means they have to improve the cpu utilization and it wasn’t strong enough to do the task in the previous state a better cpu can go against that

No. That means the devs didn't optimize their game properly. This is not a PC, it's a console, lets not get carried away here. I have spoken to this before, about devs using the power these consoles have as a safety not and not doing the kinda of optimizations they should be doing that is typical of console development. And games like these prove it.

No, when you see devs releasing 5 patches for a game and each one improves the CPU performance.... especially on PC hardware too, that should tell you as plain as day that they didn't optimize their game properly to begin with. NOT that the hardware that is running their game is not good enough.

and see what I did here... you can try it too, that way you aren't spamming the thread with 8 separate posts on the same page that could just as easily have been two posts.

They could use zen 4 3d or zen 5 I was always the person who said using zen 5 feels like destiny cause of when it’s releasing.

And you need to come down from that cloud you are on. You keep talking about all these new tech that they could be using and forgetting that this is a console.

Have you not seen any console release ever before? is this your first rodeo?

Not only is this a console, it's not even a next-gen one. Its an upgrade on the current gen one. Its a PS5+. And what find funny is that Sony has already shown exactly how they would prefer to go about these kinda upgrades, dunno why people are just ignoring all that and setting these unrealistic expectations.

Look at what they did with the PS4pro. The only thing they changed was the GPU and clocked the CPU up. That is the same thing that is likely to happen here.

 

[aliadiere25]

If anyone can make a Zen 2 work, it's Mark Cerny. Remember all the panicking before the PS5 got released and how much the Xbox had more TFLOPs? I suspect that Mark will make it work where you'll get that consistent 60 FPS... and it'll probably cost around the same price as the PS5.

 

[Bernardougf]

Well.. thats shit.. was hoping for a 700-800 powerhouse ....

 

[PeteBull]

It’s not acceptable for the ps5 pro to not have at least as big a jump as the ps4 pro when unlike the ps4 pro which stayed the same price the ps5 pro will be bare minimum $100 more expensive than the original base model (could be as much as $200 more) on top of also coming out 4 years later instead of 3. We should be expecting a bit more of anything

We dont know ps5pr0's price + price isnt same as power, just look at xss vs switch price, and u can tell even if u are techlayman xss is solid few times more powerful, since switch isnt even 1/3rd of xbone one s, which was 1,3tf, and series s gpu is much newer archi 4tflops, so switch is about 10x weaker, gpu wise, yet is more expensive.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

Pro will be no more than $649 is my guess.

$499-$549 without a disc drive. $599-$649 with a disc drive.

Yes I've just made this up out of thin air, but this is Sony and it's a console. They'll actually want this thing to shift some units and so they won't go too crazy with the price.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

I have no idea why someone would defend Zen2.

I mean, we are getting the latest test from the GPU and possibly the NPU. The CPU shouldn't be left out.


PlayStation 5 uncovered: the Mark Cerny tech deep dive
PlayStation 4 Pro was built to deliver higher performance than its base counterpart in order to open the door to 4K display support, but compatibility was key. A 'butterfly' GPU configuration was deployed which essentially doubled up on the graphics core, but clock speeds aside, the CPU had to remain the same - the Zen core was not an option. For PS5, extra logic is added to the RDNA 2 GPU to ensure compatibility with PS4 and PS4 Pro, but how about the CPU side of the equation?

"All of the game logic created for Jaguar CPUs works properly on Zen 2 CPUs, but the timing of execution of instructions can be substantially different," Mark Cerny tells us. "We worked with AMD to customise our particular Zen 2 cores; they have modes in which they can more closely approximate Jaguar timing. We're keeping that in our back pocket, so to speak, as we proceed with the backwards compatibility work."


So extra logic was added to the PS5,s GPU and for the CPU, it's the timing. They have to do more work with the GPU than the CPU. If Sony is using RDNA3.5, they might as well use Zen5/Zen5c.

Personally, I am not defending Zen2, and I don't think anyone is.

I think those of us who are saying we expect Zen2, are just being realistic and informed by what Sony has done previously with a Pro console. We are also making our peace with the fact that while Zen4/5 would be infinitely better, what we could get from Zen 2 could also be enough. Especially when considering what the console is expected to do.

 

[playsaves3]

We dont know ps5pr0's price + price isnt same as power, just look at xss vs switch price, and u can tell even if u are techlayman xss is solid few times more powerful, since switch isnt even 1/3rd of xbone one s, which was 1,3tf, and series s gpu is much newer archi 4tflops, so switch is about 10x weaker, gpu wise, yet is more expensive.

And that just means we got complacent with accepting bad results