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[ChiefDada]

Pretty sure it will be a small upgrade, similar to PS4 to PS4 Pro.

Virtually impossible at this point. There's nothing small about 2x RT performance when you consider that is the difference between 30fps and 60fps for console market. This will feel much closer to a new generation than a mid gen upgrade and I don't think I'm exaggerating much. Similar to how it felt to play last gen and non-RT cross gen games on the PS5. And this is in large part due to AMD being late to the party with RT at the beginning of the new console generation.

I can also not see they will target 8k resolutions, 8k resolution is something for a very small audience who have televisions over 65 inch or a projector, for smaller sizes it’s just not feasible.

Instead of spending money on 8k, make sure you get a top 4K television. I spent a little bit more on Sony, because they still have the best upscaling and I can’t really tell the difference between 2160p or 1440p, because the internal upscale already produces a near perfect picture.

I can tell you didn’t watch the video. It's not about 8k TVs, it's about the anti-aliasing/IQ benefits and to a greater extent offloading compute. You should watch the videos but the screenshots alone speak for themselves.

 

[rnlval]

All GPU architectures are aging - RTX 30 series is also aging poorly because of VRAM limitations which is more important that "rAy tRacINg".

RTX 3070 / RTX 3070 Ti's 8 GB VRAM is problematic, but not a major problem for RTX 3080 / RTX 3080 Ti 12 GB.

AMD's RT is one generation behind NVIDIA's.

In terms of shader TFLOPS and TMU (texture management unit) count, RX 7900 XTX (384 TMU scaling) is supposed to be slightly above RTX 4080.

NVIDIA has yet to deliver the full AD102 (RTX 4090's 512 TMU scale to 576 TMU) and AD103 SKUs (RTX 4080's 304 TMU to RTX 4080 Super's 320 TMU scaling) for the GeForce line. The crusher is next year's RTX 4070 Ti Super 16 GB. AMD needs to release the RDNA 3.5 product refresh with full BVH hardware ASAP.

RTX 3090 Ti has 336 TMU scaling.

 

[Codeblew]

What's the point of the Pro If they can't achieve 60fps in GTAVI?? Yeah games will look and run better/smoother on the Pro.

Maybe upgrading my PC will be a better deal after all.

Just to be realistic, I will probably buy GTAVI on console when it releases and then buy it later on PC for modding. By the time it comes out on PC, I will be overdue for a PC upgrade anyway.

 

[playsaves3]

Yes you become MORE cpu bottlenecked with more RT, but base PS5 is GPU bottlenecked in like 95% of games fidelity and performance modes. Look at Hardware Unboxed CPU benchmarks for Spiderman Remastered using a 3090 as constant GPU. At 4K resolution with High RT, the Ryzen 3600 is averaging well over 70fps. Remember PS5 CPU performs MUCH better primarily because of i/o and decompression offloading. We are GPU bottlenecked by FAR. Even in Performance RT modes we are still heavily GPU bottlenecked. And this is mainly caused by limited RT HW in RDNA2. CPU isn't the issue. Sony is right to focus on RT and upscaling. The more I think about it, I wonder what the hell they are going to use all of this extra compute for if RT traversal and AI upscaling is true.

If the ps5 can already do it at 60 shouldn’t the pros goal then be to do the same workload at 120?

 

[playsaves3]

One thing with the leaks that is more intriguing for me this time round is what Tom Henderson has said about TP devs now having the dev kits (implying Sony FP have already had them for a while) even though this would on the face of it be before developer disclosure at the likes of GDC. Maybe Sony decided in the first instance to disclose details on a dev by dev basis to limit leaks? Also, assuming a November release, it would mean devs have a full year with the Pro which seems like a long time....Maybe launch is much sooner (Spring) or it does have tech that are new and devs need more time to take advantage of it?

Would be really stupid for Sony to leave dev kits out that long especially if it prevents them from using better tech imagine if them just leaving these dev kits sitting for more than a year is the reason we can’t get say zen 5 over 4

 

[playsaves3]

I agree, in theory its possible, if we totally disregard recent leaks, which no sane person will do, till those leaks happened i also hoped/dreamead of much stronger cpu and gpu in ps5pr0 even if it would make its launch price 800usd.
Unfortunately reality is brutal, some things cant be helped =/

The leak from resetera was debunked so there may still be hope. They also don’t need to make the pro 800 to include zen 5 it could fit in a 600$ package

 

[rnlval]

Yes you become MORE cpu bottlenecked with more RT, but base PS5 is GPU bottlenecked in like 95% of games fidelity and performance modes. Look at Hardware Unboxed CPU benchmarks for Spiderman Remastered using a 3090 as constant GPU. At 4K resolution with High RT, the Ryzen 3600 is averaging well over 70fps. Remember PS5 CPU performs MUCH better primarily because of i/o and decompression offloading. We are GPU bottlenecked by FAR. Even in Performance RT modes we are still heavily GPU bottlenecked. And this is mainly caused by limited RT HW in RDNA2. CPU isn't the issue. Sony is right to focus on RT and upscaling. The more I think about it, I wonder what the hell they are going to use all of this extra compute for if RT traversal and AI upscaling is true.

Both Ryzen 5 3600 and 7 3800X has similar 32 MB L3 cache size.

From https://www.techspot.com/article/2520-spiderman-cpu-benchmark/

Ryzen 5800X3D's very large 96MB L3 cache helps feed the Zen 3 core.

DDR5 enables Alder Lake's sweet spot.

 

[rnlval]

This has nothing to do with Xbox marketing they are estimating how many RDNA 2 teraflops it would take to perform the peak hypothetical performance of RDNA 2 ray accelerators . What exactly aren't you understanding?

In general RT benchmark averages.

RDNA 3 60 CU equipped RX 7800 XT is slightly superior to RDNA 2 80 CU equipped RX 6900 XT. Not including the clock speed difference, Xbox Series X's 52 CU RDNA 2 GPU is a 65 percent of 80 CU equipped RX 6900 XT.

RX 7900 XT has an 84 CU (with 336 TMU) RDNA 3 scale. RX 7900 XT's 84 CU should be the direct replacement for 80 CU equipped RX 6950 and RX 6900 XT series.

 

[Majormaxxx]

60 fps on Pro?

Imagine 120fps twerking

 

[bitbydeath]

Pretty sure it will be a small upgrade, similar to PS4 to PS4 Pro.

I can also not see they will target 8k resolutions, 8k resolution is something for a very small audience who have televisions over 65 inch or a projector, for smaller sizes it’s just not feasible.

Instead of spending money on 8k, make sure you get a top 4K television. I spent a little bit more on Sony, because they still have the best upscaling and I can’t really tell the difference between 2160p or 1440p, because the internal upscale already produces a near perfect picture.

Similar to PS4 and Pro would be correct.

PS4 - 1080P
PS4 Pro - 4K (Upscaled)

PS5 - 4K
PS5 Pro - 8K (Upscaled)

 

[rnlval]

I find some of the rumors very strange tbh. TLDR: I don't think RDNA 3 or more dedicated HW for RT is likely.

First:

There are rumours of Zen 2 cores with higher clock speeds, which could be realistic, but the RDNA 3 GPU not so much. There is a significant operational difference between RDNA 2 and 3, given that the latter supports dual-issue processing while the former does not. This is the kind of difference that requires a different optimisation on the shaders and shader compiler side, which would not be very beneficial for developers. While on a PC this is not really a problem, on a console it is important to take into account that the devs optimize differently. Shaders can be shipped in binary, devs can even perform assembly-level modifications. However, while the slightly different GCN design of the PS4 and PS4 Pro did not require different optimisation, this is not the case with RDNA 2 and 3, which require very different binaries for the dual-issue capabilities, effectively doubling the work required in terms of optimisation.

Second:

It is also difficult to interpret the information that the PS5 Pro gets a dedicated HW unit for processing some steps related to ray tracing (rumor is HW for traversal). This is very strange because Sony’s graphics API already supports fully programmable traversal, thus providing free programmability on a per object basis. A dedicated unit for traversal would be a step back, as programmability itself would be lost. Not to mention that the RDNA 3 dual-issue mode is exactly for distributing tasks related to RT to free FP32 units. So the current rumors describe the upcoming hardware in such a way that it bears the extra transistor cost of the dual-issue construction of RDNA 3, while it gets a dedicated HW for the task most frequently distributed in dual-issue mode.

Nvidia's full-featured RT hardware supports DXR Tier 1.1 inline raytracing.

RDNA 2 is missing early BVH subtree culling hardware. RDNA 2 RT hardware is the inferior implementation.

Like AMD's RDNA 3 CU's dual-issue feature without TMU scaling, NVIDIA Ampere SM also has a 2X FLOPS scale without TMU scaling. NVIDIA has the TFLOPS high ground.

 

[ChiefDada]

If the ps5 can already do it at 60 shouldn’t the pros goal then be to do the same workload at 120?

I've never seen/heard of PS5 locking to native 4k60 with High RT settings in this game or any other game. Or are you referring to current 1440p/60 modes? If so, it really depends on what the developer wants to do. If they want more performance they add minimal or no additional visuals and game becomes more CPU bound with higher FPS. Alternatively, they can add visual bells and whistle and game becomes more GPU bound but can still go significantly higher than 60 with higher GPU ceiling. As someone who primarily enjoys 3rd person production rich games (aka quintessential Sony 1st party), I care much more about graphical effects over FPS, especially once I've cleared 60fps. Anything in excess of 90fps is of no value to me.

In general RT benchmark averages.

RDNA 3 60 CU equipped RX 7800 XT is slightly superior to RDNA 2 80 CU equipped RX 6900 XT. Not including the clock speed difference, Xbox Series X's 52 CU RDNA 2 GPU is a 65 percent of 80 CU equipped RX 6900 XT.

RX 7900 XT has an 84 CU (with 336 TMU) RDNA 3 scale. RX 7900 XT's 84 CU should be the direct replacement for 80 CU equipped RX 6950 and RX 6900 XT series.

I honestly don't know what you're getting at but dedicated Ray Traversal HW would place PS5 Pro on an entirely different level than RDNA 3.

 

[rnlval]

I've never seen/heard of PS5 locking to native 4k60 with High RT settings in this game or any other game. Or are you referring to current 1440p/60 modes? If so, it really depends on what the developer wants to do. If they want more performance they add minimal or no additional visuals and game becomes more CPU bound with higher FPS. Alternatively, they can add visual bells and whistle and game becomes more GPU bound but can still go significantly higher than 60 with higher GPU ceiling. As someone who primarily enjoys 3rd person production rich games (aka quintessential Sony 1st party), I care much more about graphical effects over FPS, especially once I've cleared 60fps. Anything in excess of 90fps is of no value to me.



I honestly don't know what you're getting at but dedicated Ray Traversal HW would place PS5 Pro on an entirely different level than RDNA 3.

+30 TFLOPS Ampere RTX 3080 with 68 SM units has dedicated Ray Traversal HW. RDNA 3's early cull subtree hardware is a halfway house.

It took AMD, RDNA 2, RDNA 3, and RDNA 3 3.5 to obtain the full-featured RT hardware.

In relation to TMU and shader TFLOPS scaling
RX 7800 XT should been RTX 3080 (68 SM).
RX 7900 XTX (96 CU) should been slightly above the RTX 4080 (76 SM) level. PC RDNA 3's Infinity Cache is attached via L3 cache.


RTX 4070 Ti has 60 SM scaling with a large L2 cache performance booster and attaching a large cache via L2 has lower latency when compared to PC RDNA 3's Infinity Cache attachment via L3 cache.

 

[ChiefDada]

+30 TFLOPS Ampere RTX 3080 with 68 SM units has dedicated Ray Traversal HW. RDNA 3's early cull subtree hardware is a halfway house.

It took AMD, RDNA 2, RDNA 3, and RDNA 3 3.5 to obtain the full-featured RT hardware.

Ok?

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Pretty sure it will be a small upgrade, similar to PS4 to PS4 Pro.

I can also not see they will target 8k resolutions, 8k resolution is something for a very small audience who have televisions over 65 inch or a projector, for smaller sizes it’s just not feasible.

Instead of spending money on 8k, make sure you get a top 4K television. I spent a little bit more on Sony, because they still have the best upscaling and I can’t really tell the difference between 2160p or 1440p, because the internal upscale already produces a near perfect picture.

Pro was about 2.5 X the PS4.
It the PS5 Pro is 2.5 X the PS5 that will also be pretty significant.

 

[rnlval]

Pro was about 2.5 X the PS4.
It the PS5 Pro is 2.5 X the PS5 that will also be pretty significant.

PS4 Pro's 2.5X TFLOPS scaling from PS4 wasn't good since memory bandwidth scaling was rubbish.

 

[rnlval]

Ok?

FYI, RX 7800 XT has 37 TFLOPS dual issue mode or 18.5 TFLOPS single issue mode @ +2.4 Ghz.

PS5 Pro GPU @ 2.2 Ghz would have 33 TFLOPS dual issue mode or 16.5 TFLOPS single issue mode. Expect near RTX 3080 level when the NAVI team's 60 CU scaling gains full-featured RT cores. RDNA 3's L2 cache needs to increase.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

PS4 Pro's 2.5X TFLOPS scaling from PS4 wasn't good since memory bandwidth scaling was rubbish.

It was great.
Added 4K and pseudo 4K plus HDR.

 

[Majormaxxx]

Similar to PS4 and Pro would be correct.

PS4 - 1080P
PS4 Pro - 4K (Upscaled)

PS5 - 4K
PS5 Pro - 8K (Upscaled)

This is the only thing that makes sense.

Sony doesn't sell consoles to nerds who hang out on neogaf.

Consoles are sold to normal people.

The selling point of a pro should be a new tech.

As soon as giant 8k tvs start becoming mainstream, Ps5 pro will make sense.

 

[Salmon Snake]

Imagine 120fps twerking

I can only imagine.

ACTUALLY!

Now that I have the LG OLED G3 that is within a possibility if the gaming gods hit their spear of destiny lighting on the Pro.

 

[Imtjnotu]

I can only imagine.

ACTUALLY!

Now that I have the LG OLED G3 that is within a possibility if the gaming gods hit their spear of destiny lighting on the Pro.

How are you liking the g3

 

[DenchDeckard]

This is the only thing that makes sense.

Sony doesn't sell consoles to nerds who hang out on neogaf.

Consoles are sold to normal people.

The selling point of a pro should be a new tech.

As soon as giant 8k tvs start becoming mainstream, Ps5 pro will make sense.

But the reality will be.

Ps5 -720p to 1080p upscale to 4k 60fps

Ps5 Pro 1440p to 1800p upscale to 4k 60fps

 

[Zathalus]

Some expectations in this thread are getting a bit out of hand, it's a PS5 Pro people, not a PS6. Don't expect a generational leap.

 

[Imtjnotu]

Some expectations in this thread are getting a bit out of hand, it's a PS5 Pro people, not a PS6. Don't expect a generational leap.

I think we're more wanting current looking games as higher FPS

Not expecting next gen graphics

 

[Zathalus]

I think we're more wanting current looking games as higher FPS

Not expecting next gen graphics

Yeah, sure if the game is not heavily CPU limited then the Pro will likely have a performance mode that will hold 60. What it will not have is native 4k/60 games with heavy RT. Or upscaling better then DLSS for example.

 

[bitbydeath]

Yeah, sure if the game is not heavily CPU limited then the Pro will likely have a performance mode that will hold 60. What it will not have is native 4k/60 games with heavy RT. Or upscaling better then DLSS for example.

They only need a better GPU as games are already running at 60FPS.

 

[Ronin_7]

PS4 Pro's 2.5X TFLOPS scaling from PS4 wasn't good since memory bandwidth scaling was rubbish.

Bandwidth won't be a problem anymore.

And yes that was PlayStation 4 Pro main issue.

 

[Zathalus]

They only need a better GPU as games are already running at 60FPS.

Those games will then have higher resolution, more impressive RT, and likely better upscaling.

I'm referring to the games that don't run at 60 on the base PS5 model. I doubt a Pro would get a stable 60 if the CPU is the reason for 30fps. Which may happen with GTA6.

Take Alan Wake 2 for example. Quality mode on the consoles run at 1296p upscaled to 4k with FSR and no RT. The Pro can almost certainly run that at 1296p upscaled to 4k with whatever newer upscaling solution is developed with RT reflections and at a stable 60fps. It's not going to play it at native 4k/60fps with multiple RT effects, not even the 4090 can do that.

Just pointing out that expecting AMD or Sony to leapfrog Nvidia for a mid-gen upgrade is almost certainly not happening.

 

[M1987]

I think people are going to be very disappointed once the real specs of the PS5 Pro are announced.There's no way a £500-£600 console is going to perform like a 4070 Ti,and certainly not a 4080 ffs

 

[Majormaxxx]

I think people are going to be very disappointed once the real specs of the PS5 Pro are announced.There's no way a £500-£600 console is going to perform like a 4070 Ti,and certainly not a 4080 ffs

 

[TrebleShot]

I think people are going to be very disappointed once the real specs of the PS5 Pro are announced.There's no way a £500-£600 console is going to perform like a 4070 Ti,and certainly not a 4080 ffs

If it’s pure apples to apples sure but the current PS5 is already punching above its weight, even a slight upgrade with some sorry of DLSS or frame gen clone would be a massive uptick on image quality and frames.

The consoles aren’t aiming for 4k120fps


4k upscaled from a fairly decent base and 60 is plenty enough. That base being something akin to Quality or balanced on DLSS.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

But the reality will be.

Ps5 -720p to 1080p upscale to 4k 60fps

Ps5 Pro 1440p to 1800p upscale to 4k 60fps

At 30fps a lot of the more demanding PS5 games are still getting resolutions of 1080-1440p no? Some higher. DF think GTA6 will be about 1440p going by the trailer.

 

[Salmon Snake]

How are you liking the g3

It's simply awesome.

 

[DenchDeckard]

At 30fps a lot of the more demanding PS5 games are still getting resolutions of 1080-1440p no? Some higher. DF think GTA6 will be about 1440p going by the trailer.

I think the majority of games will have decent resolutions at 30FPS but I do feel that with the popularity of OLED tvs we will see more and more 60FPS modes which will run at lower resolutions and be upscaled, like we have already seen.

 

[PeteBull]

Similar to PS4 and Pro would be correct.

PS4 - 1080P
PS4 Pro - 4K (Upscaled)

PS5 - 4K
PS5 Pro - 8K (Upscaled)

Most ps5 games arent 4k tho, many crossgen games arent even 1440p, so lets forget about 8k for a very long time, its 4x more expensive, gpu wise, vs 4k, and diference between image quality isnt perceptable if u playing even at close distance to ur huge 70-80inches tv.

I say it as 4k monitor owner(32inches) and i sit about 30cm/feet away from it, 720p to 1080p is much more visible jump from 1080p to 4k, and 4k to 8k will be extremly not noticable while needing 4x more performance, tldr lets not hope/wait for it coz for the most part its just waste of gpu power that could be much better used by increasing graphics fidelity(aka bells and whistles).

 

[bitbydeath]

Those games will then have higher resolution, more impressive RT, and likely better upscaling.

I'm referring to the games that don't run at 60 on the base PS5 model. I doubt a Pro would get a stable 60 if the CPU is the reason for 30fps. Which may happen with GTA6.

Take Alan Wake 2 for example. Quality mode on the consoles run at 1296p upscaled to 4k with FSR and no RT. The Pro can almost certainly run that at 1296p upscaled to 4k with whatever newer upscaling solution is developed with RT reflections and at a stable 60fps. It's not going to play it at native 4k/60fps with multiple RT effects, not even the 4090 can do that.

Just pointing out that expecting AMD or Sony to leapfrog Nvidia for a mid-gen upgrade is almost certainly not happening.

You could count the amount of non-60FPS games on one hand, they are few and far between. Even the most next-gen looking games like Horizon 2 are 60FPS.

 

[Zathalus]

You could count the amount of non-60FPS games on one hand, they are few and far between. Even the most next-gen looking games like Horizon 2 are 60FPS.

I never claimed otherwise. Although with cross-gen mostly behind us, that might change. GTA6 being the most obvious example.

 

[bitbydeath]

Most ps5 games arent 4k tho, many crossgen games arent even 1440p, so lets forget about 8k for a very long time, its 4x more expensive, gpu wise, vs 4k, and diference between image quality isnt perceptable if u playing even at close distance to ur huge 70-80inches tv.

I say it as 4k monitor owner(32inches) and i sit about 30cm/feet away from it, 720p to 1080p is much more visible jump from 1080p to 4k, and 4k to 8k will be extremly not noticable while needing 4x more performance, tldr lets not hope/wait for it coz for the most part its just waste of gpu power that could be much better used by increasing graphics fidelity(aka bells and whistles).

These same arguments come all the time, it wasn’t that long ago 4K wasn’t needed and said to be not noticeable (diminishing returns) compared to 1080P. After 8K people will complain that you won’t find any better than 8K, 16K isn’t needed. History repeats.

 

[bitbydeath]

I never claimed otherwise. Although with cross-gen mostly behind us, that might change. GTA6 being the most obvious example.

It might not as well. Spider-Man 2 also had 60FPS and wasn’t cross-gen.

 

[PeteBull]

These same arguments come all the time, it wasn’t that long ago 4K wasn’t needed and said to be not noticeable (diminishing returns) compared to 1080P. After 8K people will complain that you won’t find any better than 8K, 16K isn’t needed. History repeats.

Im just saying, 8k isnt cheap, its extremly expensive, gpu performance wise, its 4x more pixels from 4k, and u dont get that jump from vaseline smeared look to crispiness like u get from 720p to 1080p to 4k coz at 4k image is already crispy af, on consoles u cant see it in many games coz in many cases image isnt native 4k but upscaled to reach it.
Look at native 4k pc max settings rdr2 vid, and ask urself- do u really need more pixels than this or rather higher geometry/more effects instead.



Bear in mind its still yt so compression is still there, even at 4k, in ur room/on ur tv/monitor it actually looks even sharper/crispier.

And here for contrast recent hellblade2 trailer, look how much worse image quality is in those real time fighting(im sure u will notice difference right away, not talking cutscenes/cgi but those few snippets of actual fights aka real gameplay we got in that amazing trailer

IQ is better on rdr2 4k native, but overall more complex/nexgen look is easily in hellblade2, despite lower image quality in real gameplay(fight scenes).

My point is, tetris in 16k 240fps looks colorado canion of gap worse from witcher 3 on switch depite switch port of w3 having fist sized pixels.

 

[Senua]

It might not as well. Spider-Man 2 also had 60FPS and wasn’t cross-gen.

I might not have released on PS4 but its visuals are cross gen as fuck

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Those games will then have higher resolution, more impressive RT, and likely better upscaling.

I'm referring to the games that don't run at 60 on the base PS5 model. I doubt a Pro would get a stable 60 if the CPU is the reason for 30fps. Which may happen with GTA6.

Take Alan Wake 2 for example. Quality mode on the consoles run at 1296p upscaled to 4k with FSR and no RT. The Pro can almost certainly run that at 1296p upscaled to 4k with whatever newer upscaling solution is developed with RT reflections and at a stable 60fps. It's not going to play it at native 4k/60fps with multiple RT effects, not even the 4090 can do that.

Just pointing out that expecting AMD or Sony to leapfrog Nvidia for a mid-gen upgrade is almost certainly not happening.

I don't think anyone here (and if anyone here is saying that then they are delusional) expects the PS5pro to run anything at native 4k. Hell, even the PS4pro used CBR to do 4K. And the pro is no different.

Short of coming out and flat-out saying it, I think Sony has made it clear that when it comes to gaming, they see native 4 as a waste of resources. I don't even think game engines are designed with native 4K in mind anymore.

And what do you mean by leapfrog Nvidia? I am sure I (and quite a few others) have said that the PS5pro, is going to be a fidelity mode 1440p reconstructed to 4K@60fps console. Basically, every game (or type of game) that has a performance mode right now, will be running at 60fps with settlings slightly better than whatever that same game uses in its fidelity mode.

 

[RavionUHD]

Some people have weird expectations here.

If the PS5 can handle current Next Gen Only Games like Avatar in less than 900P with 60 fps target mode (and not holding the 60 fps all the time), a PS5 Pro with 40-60% more gpu power can do the same in 1080P or a bit higher.
And the GPU is probably be as fast as a current RX 7700XT (17.5 Teraflops), maybe even a bit slower.

 

[FireFly]

These same arguments come all the time, it wasn’t that long ago 4K wasn’t needed and said to be not noticeable (diminishing returns) compared to 1080P. After 8K people will complain that you won’t find any better than 8K, 16K isn’t needed. History repeats.

The ability of the human eye to resolve detail is fixed, so there is an upper limit, at a given screen size and viewing distance. It looks like higher than 4K resolutions are "worth it" with a 65" screen, sitting less than 1.2M away. So if you use a huge TV like a regular PC monitor, 8K can deliver some benefits. I wonder what proportion of the audience that applies to.

TV Size to Distance Calculator and Science

Our TV Sizes to Distance Calculator helps you choose the right size TV for your space. The optimal viewing distance is about 1.6 times the diagonal length of the television. For example, for a 55” TV, the best distance is 7 feet.

www.rtings.com

 

[ChiefDada]

Lol @ people saying 8k is useless... until they see 8k supersampling on their 4k TV and swear they can never go back to native 4k/TAA. Those DF comparisons will be something else. We've been down this road plenty of times before. Pro models are enthusiast class consoles per Sony's own admission so for the people who shun excess and overindulgence they should know there's a console available for them too and that's base PS5.

I don't think anyone here (and if anyone here is saying that then they are delusional) expects the PS5pro to run anything at native 4k. Hell, even the PS4pro used CBR to do 4K. And the pro is no different.

I'm saying it. There are plenty of games that run comfortably in the 1440p-4k/30 range on base PS5 that can benefit from AI upscaling to 8k. Avatar, Spider-Man 2, God of War Ragnarok, Forbidden West/Burning Shores, TLOU Pt 1, Death Stranding, the list goes on.

To my knowledge, Tom Henderson has a perfect track record when it comes to Sony insider info. The 8k performance mode is real.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

I'm saying it. There are plenty of games that run comfortably in the 1440p-4k/30 range on base PS5 that can benefit from AI upscaling to 8k. Avatar, Spider-Man 2, God of War Ragnarok, Forbidden West/Burning Shores, TLOU Pt 1, Death Stranding, the list goes on.

To my knowledge, Tom Henderson has a perfect track record when it comes to Sony insider info. The 8k performance mode is real.

Well, I stand corrected then, didnt know anyone here was saying it, And sorry for calling the then hypothetical you.. delusional. Gonna address why I said that though since I am talking to an actual person who thinks it.

Yes, we have the quality and performance mode in games. Typically, that quality mode is running at 1440p-4K + DRS + reconstruction and usually has the complete suite of IQ features the game offers. While running at 30fps. And then we have the performance mode that would in addition to running at 720p-1080p before reconstruction to usually 1440p, also cut back on some IQ presets. Can be changes to draw distance, geometric detail, RT, shadows...etc.

So the question is, how do you think they use that extra power?

I think they use it to get the quality mode to 60fps (or at the very worst above 50fps at all times +VRR) while even adding a few things that are better than the base quality mode and to get the performance mode as close to 120fps as possible with VRR while using a minimum rez of 1080p. I believe this is the route the go because its something that the majority of people that own a TV today/2024/2025...etc will benefit from.

I do not see them channeling that power towards 8K anything considering how few people have an 8K TV. And that whole AI reconstruction to 8K thing and then basically supersampling back down to 4K... is redundant if you are running on a 4K TV.

 

[welshrat]

Honestly cannot see them giving a toss about 8k upscaling at this point, maybe PS6 but they are not going to shift many 8k TVs in the next few years. I mean PC gamers have barely transitioned to 4k (I am still on 2 QHD screens as decent 4k panels with good refresh are too expensive as is the GPU horsepower.). When the PS4 Pro appeared I and many of my friends had already transitioned to 4K, in fact I was on my second 4K SONY TV. its not the same this time round.

 

[PeteBull]

Lol @ people saying 8k is useless... until they see 8k supersampling on their 4k TV and swear they can never go back to native 4k/TAA. Those DF comparisons will be something else. We've been down this road plenty of times before. Pro models are enthusiast class consoles per Sony's own admission so for the people who shun excess and overindulgence they should know there's a console available for them too and that's base PS5.

I'm saying it. There are plenty of games that run comfortably in the 1440p-4k/30 range on base PS5 that can benefit from AI upscaling to 8k. Avatar, Spider-Man 2, God of War Ragnarok, Forbidden West/Burning Shores, TLOU Pt 1, Death Stranding, the list goes on.

To my knowledge, Tom Henderson has a perfect track record when it comes to Sony insider info. The 8k performance mode is real.

We keep saying imagine quality going from 4k to 8k isnt big improvement anymore, but gpu power needed to push 4x more pixels each frame, is crazy big.
Ps5pr0 wont have 4090 and 7800x3d , and even if it did it still wouldnt be able to push 8k native resolution, on actual current gen games.
Thats why gta6 trailer looks so good, much better than anything else, and its not even 1440p native, same with the matrix demo, those 2 examples scream current/next gen like nothing else.

If u decide to use up gpu power for pushing native 8k, then games wont be able to look next gen, look how lil complexity the tourist game has, which internally runs in 8k60 on ps5(yes, it outputs in 4k60), take TLoU2 from 1,8tflop base ps4 and it devours it with ease in terms of what game actually looks better.

Quick example- ps4 1080p30, for same game(settings quality), to run it in 4k60 u need 8x gpu and 2x cpu power, to run it in 8k60 u need 24x gpu power and 2x cpu power, and game wont be much better looking from 4k60game to ur eyes.

Dimnishing returns are real, u can check urself, 720p( 921,6k pixels) to 1080p(2073,6k pixels) is bigger jump to ur eyes than 1080p to 4k despite 1080p to 4kbeing exactly 4x amount of pixels, while 720p to 1080p is only 2,25x pixel amount).

Above native 4k u really have to sit extremly close to the screen to notice even small differences, and price u gotta pay for jump from 4k to 8k native is humongous, just as much as 1080p to 4k, in terms of gpu power needed.

Thats the reason ppl keep telling its not worth it coz that gpu oomph, especially in small factor console box can be used much better for many other things, not for tiny increase in image quality thats already superb at native 4k.

 

[Salz01]

I hope this brings full raytracing support during racing at 60fps on GT7.

 

[playsaves3]

I've never seen/heard of PS5 locking to native 4k60 with High RT settings in this game or any other game. Or are you referring to current 1440p/60 modes? If so, it really depends on what the developer wants to do. If they want more performance they add minimal or no additional visuals and game becomes more CPU bound with higher FPS. Alternatively, they can add visual bells and whistle and game becomes more GPU bound but can still go significantly higher than 60 with higher GPU ceiling. As someone who primarily enjoys 3rd person production rich games (aka quintessential Sony 1st party), I care much more about graphical effects over FPS, especially once I've cleared 60fps. Anything in excess of 90fps is of no value to me.



I honestly don't know what you're getting at but dedicated Ray Traversal HW would place PS5 Pro on an entirely different level than RDNA 3.

I mean for the few games like persona 5 that do native 4k 60 but for the 1440p 60 games shouldn’t the pros goal be to run it at either 4k 60 or 1440p 120 (and with slightly higher settings to boot)?