Support NeoGAF

[scarlet0pimp]

I think this is pure bollocks,
However I have often thought to myself why cant xbox license out the OS to other manufacturers in a similar way to how they did with Windows Phone.
With phone MIcrosoft specified a certain chipset for each generation and minimum amount of RAM, then different manufacturers made different hardware to suit different budgets with things like camera quality, screen size/resolution, storage amount and RAM amount to fit into the different price points. The budget Lumia 520 for example used the same snap dragon chip as the Lumia 920 only with half the RAM and a lower clock speed, worse screen and camera to make it fit the budget.
This approach in the console space could work with how the Xbox uses virtual OS. The only issue I would say would be getting partners to sign up since consoles tend to not make much profit themselves its all the software. So Samsung might be reluctant to make Xboxes when they only get a cut of the original sale.
This approach could also mean we get some unique console designs like a Laptop form factor Xbox made by Samsung.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

So basically a PC?

They would be better suited making a Windows lite OS, or call it Windows XE. And have anyone be able to install that on their PC. A super-fast OS with absolutely no bloat and fine-tuned to prioritize gaming and call it a day. Would be easier getting third parties on board that way.

I am sure I have said something like this before.

 

[Chukhopops]

Yeah that is way out there. But with 2024 likely coming out in, well, 2024 it should be quickly answered. Flight Sim does sit in its own weird niche for MS - it has robust VR support for example.

I can’t imagine MS spending money and taking the PR hit of porting a 40-year old franchise to get those juicy PSVR2 sales coming from Flight Simulator enthusiasts.

IMO it’s ridiculous that this rumor is even entertained.

 

[Bry0]

So basically a PC?

They would be better suited making a Windows lite OS, or call it Windows XE. And have anyone be able to install that on their PC. A super-fast OS with absolutely no bloat and fine-tuned to prioritize gaming and call it a day. Would be easier getting third parties on board that way.

I am sure I have said something like this before.

“BACHUS The original idea for Xbox, which we called the Windows Entertainment Platform at the time, or the code name was Midway, was really one of a PC appliance.”

What’s old is new again lol

 

[lughnasadh123]

I can see it as a pre built PC that happens to have Xbox OS software on it rather than Windows. With a few proprietary tweaks here or there. This could coexist with cloud. The better your hardware, the less you rely on it. The better hardware would get niche, but like PCs, it doesn't really matter. Just an option, not a mass produced console sitting on shelves.

Some might like it. Enough to justify the costs of making it? I'm just not sure on that.

 

[Pelta88]

The liability alone makes this unlikely, if we're talking XB OS.

 

[Heisenberg007]

I can’t imagine MS spending money and taking the PR hit of porting a 40-year old franchise to get those juicy PSVR2 sales coming from Flight Simulator enthusiasts.

IMO it’s ridiculous that this rumor is even entertained.

What's the difference between MSFS or Hi-Fi Rush or Gears if they do go multi-platform and abandon the console hardware business?

It'll all be the same thing for them, i.e., because they won't have their own console anymore, they are porting their games on other platforms.

 

[mckmas8808]

So, this has been circulating in a discord I'm a part of which necessarily hasn't been picked up by Xbox community. The person was on the money on Indiana Jones, and is further corroborating about Xbox multi-platform stuff but the most intriguing aspect was on the hardware bit where the poster seems to allude that next-gen Xbox consoles will be akin to partnership like 3rd party controllers whereby other manufacturers will make the hardware which can run Xbox games. It opens up a lot of possibility, such as significantly different configurations (both powerful and weak) but it will also push the cost up as 3rd party won't sell hardware at a loss.

So, what does the Gaf think? I am personally bit torn, I know Microsoft are eating a lot of loss to sell Series S/X but I always thought they would build another Xbox. This rumor also gives a different perspective on FTC leaks, whereby Xbox were aiming at some sort of ARM+Cloud hybrid for next-gen. Was this their plan all along? To have 3rd party sell different kind of consoles which can run their games, meanwhile their focus will be purely on pushing software on multiple platforms, while pushing Cloud as their proprietary hardware for next-gen Xbox.

When did he actually say Troy Baker would voice Indiana Jones? Was that January 15th too?

 

[Crispy Gamer]

Yeah I believe it that sounds like a Microsoft move the writing is on the wall as far as their hardware going away but they just can't completely let go yet, 2023 was an absolute disaster for them so the status quo isn't going to work everyone should expect massive changes. Why buy up 3rd party publishers and have games trapped exclusively on a dying platform? The whole concept wouldn't make sense to Satya Nadella when they have options to expand

 

[Gudji]

Nice.

 

[GHG]

one step closer to putting Xbox OS on your own hand built PC.

If I could dual boot between the Xbox OS (for gamepass when I use it) and SteamOS (for everything else) then I'll be a happy bunny.

 

[Magic Carpet]

I watched a video of a RTX 4090 being stripped down to repaste.

The board was tiny. The thing was all metal for heat sink. I can imagine this thing going into a console size box the shape of a Series X. Just all metal and a fan.

 

[SlimySnake]

So basically a PC?

They would be better suited making a Windows lite OS, or call it Windows XE. And have anyone be able to install that on their PC. A super-fast OS with absolutely no bloat and fine-tuned to prioritize gaming and call it a day. Would be easier getting third parties on board that way.

I am sure I have said something like this before.

Windows Gaming is trash. Way too many issues. id rather take the Xbox OS and quality control than the wild west that is PC gaming. Especially after last year which had arguably the worst PC ports in decades.

 

[demigod]

Yeah, Surface PCs are sold for profit and so they are competitive with third party Windows laptops. I can't see OEMs wanting to compete with a subsidized Microsoft Xbox while they have to markup their hardware to make money. All I see out of this scenario are a bunch of higher priced Xbox consoles. As it is, Xbox can't compete with PS5 so I just don't see how this would do anything but kill Xbox.

It’s not going up against a subsidized xbox though. But yeah it will fail just like steam machines.

 

[mckmas8808]

I cannot reveal which Discord server this is from. There's a lot of stuff which is shared on here, I don't want to blow my cover and lose access. Just to assure you, things in this pic (software part) were corroborated by another well known insider from the industry.

The poster was correct because this leak pre-dates the yesterdays' showcase by few days. It was on January 15th.

If this is true, then WOW!!!! It's mind-blowing that MS is taking this approach. I don't think truly understand how risky it is for MS to straight up abandon the core of what Xbox is, in order to make "SteamMachines" version of Xbox consoles. One has to wonder how much Phil is onboard with this and how long he'll stay if he hates this idea.

 

[Crayon]

Fascinating theory. Come to my discord sometime. We drink paint.

 

[jroc74]

I can't stop freaking out about people's imagination... And my head explodes when I see people here accepting and embracing meaningless theories and speculations from a random Twitter user like these are accomplished facts.

Please, MS has an entire XBOX hardware division working (in fact they can't stop congratulating themselves and being proud of the work they are doing behind the scenes on Twitter).

They very recently placed Jason Ronald (the Beard) as head of hardware and have named Sarah Bond presidenta of XBOX hardware. And P. Spencer a few weeks ago confirmed the development and roadmap of new Xbox console hardware.....

Can anyone in their right mind think that all of this is a smokescreen and that now they have paralyzed everything and left the creation of hardware to third parties?
Do you know the amount of requirements, investment, logistics and capacity necessary to be able to meet millions of requests for a product?

What hardware company is going to see business in something like this when the PC simply exists?

Do you think MS would agree to be responsible for third-party hardware and the difficulties of maintaining the security of those devices? I am clear that the desire of some to see Xbox disappear clouds their vision and they stop reasoning. Or they simply have no interest in reasoning.


It was not specifically that. And of course in that meeting described in the FTC docs it was not the "flexibility" what the OP is implying....

-In that meeting, P. Spencer was asked about his plans for the next generation of console hardware. Someone suggests that getting closer to the PC/Apple model by launching continuous hardware updates without limiting yourself to "generations" might be a good opportunity.

-Then P. Spencer answers that it is not that easy. Firstly because the developers and Studios prefer not to have to deal with many versions and optimizing would be a problem.
That with XSS and XSX they have already opted for a more flexible model and that that would be their line also for the next Xbox console, although perhaps they could expand that flexibility...

There is nothing there comparable to leaving what is being suggested in this thread.

All this and the OP can be true and MS still makes a hybrid/cloud device built by MS.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

It will be a shame because the engineering team that put together the series x and s did an outstanding job on the design and the build quality is top tier for that price point.. I very much doubt an OEM can do better

Of course they can't, that's why their shitty mock up consoles will be the best reason to buy into XCloud.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Source; Discord.

Stopped reading there.

That's a mistake honestly

A lot of people that control the gaming industry hangs out in certain Discords

And like the one icerock is in many are private and require invitation and those who get invited are super limited

I speak from experience

 

[Bry0]

Windows Gaming is trash. Way too many issues. id rather take the Xbox OS and quality control than the wild west that is PC gaming. Especially after last year which had arguably the worst PC ports in decades.

They are really not that different, the current xbox os is basically running a windows core. I think it’s more xbox having fixed hardware specs that makes the experience much more consistent. If hardware went 3rd party with lots of variable specs then I don’t see how you wouldn’t start having “pc port” issues on many games depending on which “Xbox” you have.

Some of that probably could be mitigated with the Xbox os being stripped down and gaming focused, but idk.

Interesting stuff either way.

 

[graywolf323]

hopefully they do a better job of it than Steam did with the Steam Machines

 

[Ronin_7]

Dude knew about IJ being first person DAMN

 

[icerock]

If this is true, then WOW!!!! It's mind-blowing that MS is taking this approach. I don't think truly understand how risky it is for MS to straight up abandon the core of what Xbox is, in order to make "SteamMachines" version of Xbox consoles. One has to wonder how much Phil is onboard with this and how long he'll stay if he hates this idea.

Yes, this was all on 15th which is why that poster is gaining attention. Things check out on Indiana Jones, and he is just in a long line of many people who have spoken about Xbox multi-plat rumors. Shinobi was first last year, this poster is latest.

Fresh info is about hardware part, where nobody else has chimed in which is why I created this thread.

I personally think these decisions are way above Phil's pay-grade. ABK acquisition has brought attention to Xbox from Microsoft higher ups and shareholders, it'll become a more critical part to their business so they cannot let Phil and his cronies carry on things like they are doing and lose billions of dollars. It's time to make up that money, hence the push towards becoming a 3rd party publisher. I also don't think they'll fully abandon hardware, I just don't think their next console will be traditional. I expect it to be a cloud hybrid, and such sort of hardware is exclusive to them. Thing logically, if 3rd party is making Xboxes, they won't be subsidized or come cheap. Microsoft can fill the void, but the twist will be it is cloud centered. So cheapest entry to Xbox ecosystem is still through Microsoft hardware. Obviously this is all a big IF, but they are thinking long term.

That's a mistake honestly

A lot of people that control the gaming industry hangs out in certain Discords

And like the one icerock is in many are private and require invitation and those who get invited are super limited

I speak from experience

Thank you.

I am not the one who fishes for attention or likes, they are not my thing or else I would share a lot more nuggets. Such as on PS5 Pro, or ND next game, Remedy future and ilk. Once you start typing these things out in the open, you'll get filtered pretty quick because those channels have very limited space, it is easy to find who is outing the info.

 

[Darsxx82]

All this and the OP can be true and MS still makes a hybrid/cloud device built by MS.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Until we get to the moment of the great idea where MS should be obliged and take responsibility for that third-party hardware and its support while it must do the same with its own and make them converge in cross-play, optimization, security... ..

The double option would definitely make much less sense. Since the PC already exists, it is a better and simpler business and the OEMs are not going to compete with an MS XBOX that sells at a loss (and would have better support) while they supposedly have to make money.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

hopefully they do a better job of it than Steam did with the Steam Machines

Steam Machines were the worst ever. Valve knew and still went through it.

I think it was one stage show to promote the systems, and one video to promote the gamepad with a touch disc. That was it. Never heard from them ever again.

 

[Topher]

It’s not going up against a subsidized xbox though. But yeah it will fail just like steam machines.

Yeah, I was responding to the idea that Microsoft could have both their own subsidized Xbox and third party unsubsidized OEM Xbox. That would never work.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

So kinda like a Steam Machine?

Good luck. Its not a bad strategy, have to do something different hardware wise to try to change things.

All I will say is its starting to look eerily similar to how the smartphone market went for them. Trying so much different stuff before finally bowing out the hardware side.

I think this'd work out better than smartphone because in the PC space, MS have a large vested interest with Windows & DirectX, which dominate that market for OSes and gaming SDKs. Even Valve lack those advantages.

What I was speculating, is that MS would shift Xbox to a more PC model with gaming-centric NUC, laptop etc. devices but do the manufacturing themselves, like with their Surface devices. What this rumor's suggesting is something closer to the 3DO model, which would assume MS design a framework/blueprint reference design for the device (on the hardware, OS fronts) and license it out to companies like Asus, Dell etc. to build them.

I'm...not entirely sure how that'd go. IMO this would only work if Microsoft develop a really novel gaming PC platform and define a market in that way themselves, which would still require them to make the hardware themselves at some level. Hence why moving the Xbox hardware team to the Surface division (they already had Surface people help design the Xbox Series systems) would make sense. What I'm guessing is actually the possible plan, is that MS are going to transition Xbox hardware to gaming-centric PC NUC & laptop style devices spearheaded under an expanded Surface hardware team, and Microsoft licensing out the Xbox brand name and "base" gaming UI frontend (alongside Windows OS) to 3P OEMs who can build their own Xbox systems.

I'm also suspecting that Microsoft could put in orders for hardware components for them (CPU, GPU etc.) that fit the base blueprint designs (this'd probably be needed if they are developing semi-custom hardware for the machines similar in ways to what they've been doing with the consoles), and provide that to OEMs who want to build models with those base specs. That'll probably be a means they entice OEMs to build their own "Xbox" systems, and they can customize/scale various aspects of their builds as they see fit (within reason to the limits of what the base blueprint could support, for example the maximum CPU or GPU upgrades the motherboard could support, max system RAM amounts, etc.).

So if there's any truth to this rumor, it won't just be MS licensing a spec out to OEMs 3DO or Valve-style; they'll be manufacturing and distributing these Xbox 'consolized' gaming PC NUCs/laptops etc. themselves like they do with the Surface devices.

Valve tried with the STEAM machines and failed. I can't see this being a success.

Valve were half-hearted with Steam machines, though, and didn't fully flesh the concept out. The Steam Deck, which is basically an extension of the Steam Machines concept, is an actual success because Valve didn't half-ass it this time. That, and the market seems generally much more accepting of these gaming-specific/gaming-optimized PC-based devices (not to mention nowadays, Steam is way more popular than it was back in 2015).

MS have advantages Valve never will have though, in owning Windows and Direct X. And for how much Xbox console sales are on the decline, they're still selling handily more than these various PC-based gaming devices from MSI, Asus, and even Valve's Steam Deck. With the right value proposition of going more like a gaming PC NUC-style hardware device line (both 1P and with OEMs) MS could probably make a lot more money on hardware sales even with slightly reducing the volume of hardware production on their end, and further solidify Windows & Direct X in the PC gaming space.

If their Windows Store was worth a damn, that would help too.

 

[demigod]

If this is true, then WOW!!!! It's mind-blowing that MS is taking this approach. I don't think truly understand how risky it is for MS to straight up abandon the core of what Xbox is, in order to make "SteamMachines" version of Xbox consoles. One has to wonder how much Phil is onboard with this and how long he'll stay if he hates this idea.

It makes sense if its their way out of competing with Sony on a hardware level and losing $200 per console. Plus they are pivoting towards cloud.

 

[poppabk]

Steam Machines were the worst ever. Valve knew and still went through it.

I think it was one stage show to promote the systems, and one video to promote the gamepad with a touch disc. That was it. Never heard from them ever again.

Valve won out in the end though with the Steam Deck. Gotta have everyone else just ever so slightly worried.

 

[graywolf323]

Yeah, I was responding to the idea that Microsoft could have both their own subsidized Xbox and third party unsubsidized OEM Xbox. That would never work.

yep, if they do this I don’t think we’ll see hardware from Microsoft themselves anymore, otherwise I can’t see how there’s any appeal to third party manufacturers

this is clearly their idea of how to get out of making Xboxes without actually ‘killing’ off Xbox hardware

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I can't stop freaking out about people's imagination... And my head explodes when I see people here accepting and embracing meaningless theories and speculations from a random Twitter user like these are accomplished facts.

Please, MS has an entire XBOX hardware division working (in fact they can't stop congratulating themselves and being proud of the work they are doing behind the scenes on Twitter).

They very recently placed Jason Ronald (the Beard) as head of hardware and have named Sarah Bond presidenta of XBOX hardware. And P. Spencer a few weeks ago confirmed the development and roadmap of new Xbox console hardware.....

Can anyone in their right mind think that all of this is a smokescreen and that now they have paralyzed everything and left the creation of hardware to third parties?
Do you know the amount of requirements, investment, logistics and capacity necessary to be able to meet millions of requests for a product?

What hardware company is going to see business in something like this when the PC simply exists?

Do you think MS would agree to be responsible for third-party hardware and the difficulties of maintaining the security of those devices? I am clear that the desire of some to see Xbox disappear clouds their vision and they stop reasoning. Or they simply have no interest in reasoning.


It was not specifically that. And of course in that meeting described in the FTC docs it was not the "flexibility" what the OP is implying....

-In that meeting, P. Spencer was asked about his plans for the next generation of console hardware. Someone suggests that getting closer to the PC/Apple model by launching continuous hardware updates without limiting yourself to "generations" might be a good opportunity.

-Then P. Spencer answers that it is not that easy. Firstly because the developers and Studios prefer not to have to deal with many versions and optimizing would be a problem.
That with XSS and XSX they have already opted for a more flexible model and that that would be their line also for the next Xbox console, although perhaps they could expand that flexibility...

There is nothing there comparable to leaving what is being suggested in this thread.

I am not remotely saying this is happening

I don't believe anything that comes out of Phils mouth outside of certain settings and sure don't try to understand what anyone is implying

I can only comment on when I asked what more flexibility meant to certain people their reply was something along the lines of "You think the current 2 sku Xbox is a nightmare just wait"

Its why I made a thread dedicated to its discussion at one point

Nothing surprises me from these companies

 

[Topher]

I can only comment on when I asked what more flexibility meant to certain people their reply was something along the lines of "You think the current 2 sku Xbox is a nightmare just wait"

 

[LakeOf9]

Lmao, playing it safe I guess?

The first announcements are supposed to be around the start of the new fiscal year, but I have no idea about the specifics, so yes, I am sharing a general window

 

[Mibu no ookami]

3DO all over again.

This was the first thing that came to mind, with an exception.

The 3DO didn't have any market share.

I guess the question/problem would be how they make profit from this, they being manufacturers.

Let's say an XSX loses money at 500 dollars. Let's say Sega wants to sell their own version of the XSX. How do they generate profit? Do they profit share from Microsoft on digital store sales? i.e. Sega has their own store on their xbox? If that was the case how would Microsoft make money? On the sale of the XSX via licensing? That would drive the XSX price up significantly.

I just don't know how that works in today's market and any scalable level. You would need exclusives for each manufacturer to differentiate themselves, but that would also cause people to not want to buy any individual box.

 

[Mephisto40]

At least ES6 will be on Playstation now

 

[havoc00]

Well. Ignoring the reliability of the leaker, in this hypothetical I would ask, how does it make financial sense for the manufacturer? What are they getting out of it? I have to assume that Microsoft would still receive a 30% cut off all transactions as they'd be operating the store so how does the manufacturer make their money? Purely and only off the sales of consoles? They'd have to be really expensive in that case and Xbox isn't big enough for everyone to get a large piece of the pie

 

[Bry0]

I can only comment on when I asked what more flexibility meant to certain people their reply was something along the lines of "You think the current 2 sku Xbox is a nightmare just wait"

Its why I made a thread dedicated to its discussion at one point

Nothing surprises me from these companies

heh yeah. That’s a good point to remember. Well I think it will be fun to watch and see how the market reacts anyway, and how it may affect windows and pc gaming. The differentiators between the two are going to get razor thin, and pc gamers are a fickle bunch once you start trying to mandate anything. (Thinking of GFWL). If valve keeps going into hardware too, yeah it’s just interesting times ahead all around.

 

[Ronin_7]

This is why Xbox hardware division hasn't been making shit.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Windows Gaming is trash. Way too many issues. id rather take the Xbox OS and quality control than the wild west that is PC gaming. Especially after last year which had arguably the worst PC ports in decades.

Its only a wild west because there isn't a curated version of the OS specifically made for it. If Steam can do it with their Steam deck, then Microsoft can sure do a better job at making a version of Windows specifically designed for gaming, HTPC, and content creation or editing. The quality control stuff can be relegated to a qualifier devs have to hit for the game to be featured on the Xbox store or even sold on the store. But even if they don't do that gamers still have the option of using any store they want.

Whatever the case, that's an all-around better option than what is happening right now.

 

[DJ12]

3DO all over again.

Yeah, all this makes no sense.

MS couldn't compete with Ninentdo and Sony, now they want less rich companies to try and make it a success.

Mark this down as a massive cope.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

one step closer to putting Xbox OS on your own hand built PC.

I’m legit not against that idea

 

[Bry0]

MS couldn't compete with Ninentdo and Sony, now they want less rich companies to try and make it a success.

IMO it’s more about offloading the hardware business and doubling down on software and services. I say that because it’s a trajectory MS has been on outside of their gaming business too.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Its only a wild west because there isn't a curated version of the OS specifically made for it. If Steam can do it with their Steam deck, then Microsoft can sure do a better job at making a version of Windows specifically designed for gaming, HTPC, and content creation or editing. The quality control stuff can be relegated to a qualifier devs have to hit for the game to be featured on the Xbox store or even sold on the store. But even if they don't do that gamers still have the option of using any store they want.

Whatever the case, that's an all-around better option than what is happening right now.

But Xbox OS is specific for the exact hardware. Other hardware would have issues.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

At this rate I'm going to run out of wank wipes before the end of the first month of the year

 

[BlackTron]

Some might like it. Enough to justify the costs of making it? I'm just not sure on that.

That's just the thing. As a scalable hardware the costs are not the same as a console. It's not sold at a loss, and not produced en masse. No one would say "someone might like that high end PC, but enough to justify making it?"

Instead the OEM just sells a PC to someone. Same deal, just with a few twists and different software.

 

[Topher]

Just had a thought (mark the date). Xbox OS available for third parties would work extremely well for handhelds. I could see Asus and Lenovo jumping on that in a heartbeat.

 

[MikeM]

Can Xbox release an Xbox mode on PC? Kinda like big screen mode on Steam but Xbox?

 

[havoc00]

Please no not this again

 

[THE DUCK]

Arm eh? See I told you there would be an apple xbox.......

 

[Zathalus]

So what is the source here? A poorly photoshopped discord image?

No thanks, I only believe random people on Twitter.