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The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword |OT| Home of Punkin' Chunkin' Champion 2011

Xun

Member
TSA said:
Maybe I am confusing it, so this is what I specifically mean. Look at how Nathan Drake in Uncharted or Ezio in Assassin's Creed moves. Now look back at Link's movement. To me, it's night and day. Everything in Skyward Sword looks a bit goofy, which I guess you can say is the "style" of the game and how it's looked for years now, but to me it looks odd now.
I understand what you mean now.

It's not something I would call ugly, but it's more... awkward. The animation itself is fine for the most part, but there is not enough to connect the individual actions of animation. It goes straight from one action into another without connecting them which would create a very game-like feel. Uncharted/AC feel a bit more fluid in this respect, but to me I think hardware is a big reason for this (along with mocap and perhaps Nintendo's naivety). One good thing I've seen a lot more in Skyward Sword compared to the previous games is secondary animation, with a good example of this being the feathers on the bird during flight.

The cutscenes for Skyward Sword however are fine, and Nintendo did a good job in the style they went for. Of course compared to film animation it isn't as good, but they've definitely come a long way from Twilight Princess.
 

Big One

Banned
Skyward Sword's cutscenes really feels like you're watching an anime or cartoon, so much so that it kind of make me wish it has voice acting. Even Link
"speaks" in a cutscene by literally flapping his mouth.
They're really well animated for the limited hardware the game is on.
 
Zelda prioritizes control over animation, while Uncharted 3 does the exact opposite. It's like comparing holding an apple to dropping an orange, it hitting your foot, and rolling really far away.
 

Bit-Bit

Member
Do you guys think a lot of the stiff animations in game has to do with hardware limitations? Cause I remember playing Assassin's Creed on PSP and the animation in it was terrible yet it came out after Assassin's Creed 1 on PS3.
 

Caelus

Member
Bit-Bit said:
Do you guys think a lot of the stiff animations in game has to do with hardware limitations?

Some of the stiff animations have to do with the sword control.

To be honest, it's not as bad as people make it out to be.
 

Divvy

Canadians burned my passport
Bit-Bit said:
Do you guys think a lot of the stiff animations in game has to do with hardware limitations? Cause I remember playing Assassin's Creed on PSP and the animation in it was terrible yet it came out after Assassin's Creed 1 on PS3.

Well the rigs on lower powered systems are probably simpler and thus you get more "stiff" animations. But I think the biggest factor is basically how much effort they put into it. Also I'm pretty sure Assassin's Creed uses mocap and I'm certain Zelda does not.
 

Ridley327

Member
Bit-Bit said:
Do you guys think a lot of the stiff animations in game has to do with hardware limitations? Cause I remember playing Assassin's Creed on PSP and the animation in it was terrible yet it came out after Assassin's Creed 1 on PS3.
I think that had more to do with the fact that it was quickie farmed-out title than anything else. The animation in the PSP God of War titles measures up to their console equivalents.
 

Dr.Hadji

Member
ShockingAlberto said:
Zelda prioritizes control over animation, while Uncharted 3 does the exact opposite. It's like comparing holding an apple to dropping an orange, it hitting your foot, and rolling really far away.

Even then. Uncharted has great animation with very poor tweening. UC3 has way too many instances of extreme snap to surface, sliding along geometry of non grabable surfaces, moon walking, harsh animation jerks between standing and casual walk Drake, ect. I find UC breaks the illusion with its animation more often than it should.
 

wsippel

Banned
TSA said:
Maybe I am confusing it, so this is what I specifically mean. Look at how Nathan Drake in Uncharted or Ezio in Assassin's Creed moves. Now look back at Link's movement. To me, it's night and day. Everything in Skyward Sword looks a bit goofy, which I guess you can say is the "style" of the game and how it's looked for years now, but to me it looks odd now.
I personally despise those full IK, Euphoria like animation systems. They add nothing and constantly get in the way. Gameplay first and stuff, who cares if it looks "goofy". Not to mention the game doesn't look realistic, so there's no reason for the animations to be realistic. There's nothing odd about it.
 
Divvy said:
I wouldn't mind voice acting (aside from Link, he can stay silent), solely because Nintendo is probably one of the few Japanese developers I trust to not fuck it up.

Have you played Other M? Or seen that new Kid Icarus?
 

Big One

Banned
Some of the voice talent in the game is actually pretty good. Ryusei Nakao (aka Freeza) voices Ghirahim. I think Ghirahim would've been considerably enhanced if he spoke all of his dialogue.
 
Also, one animation that looks REALLY really fucking stiff and awkward is Link jumping from a vine. He doesn't so much jump as he just falls almost directly down vertically. When someone like Nathan Drake or even Donkey Kong in DKCR leaps from vines, there's a clear "release" jump animation, to add to the feeling of swinging from a rope and leaping away. Link kinda just...drops from vines, with no animation whatsoever. It looks terrible lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAEoYcC25Ss&t=9m5s
 

cajunator

Banned
TSA said:
I guess that is a mini-game, but it's just something you have to complete in order to prove you've mastered a new ability for your Loftwing later in the game
.



Maybe I am confusing it, so this is what I specifically mean. Look at how Nathan Drake in Uncharted or Ezio in Assassin's Creed moves. Now look back at Link's movement. To me, it's night and day. Everything in Skyward Sword looks a bit goofy, which I guess you can say is the "style" of the game and how it's looked for years now, but to me it looks odd now.
Nathan Drake runs like an idiot. I hope Link doesnt run like that, swaying his head side to side like a Louisiana drunkard.
 
Big One said:
I think Ghirahim would've been considerably enhanced if he spoke all of his dialogue.

For once, I agree with you.

The best thing I can say to you other than making a long list of points of what I liked and disliked in Twilight Princess and then comparing those to Skyward Sword in terms of explaining why I like one better than the other is this. Skyward Sword wasn't the type of evolution I wanted in the franchise, though I held out hope up until I played the final version. I was a champion of change, but I think Twilight Princess is so refined and polished for what it is that it is overall, as a whole, a better game than Skyward Sword because the latter feels like it is testing the waters with a lot of new mechanics and ideas, where some work and others, to me, just didn't.

This leads into the question somebody else asked. I think they can take what they did in Skyward Sword and improve it, and mix in even more new concepts. However, I'm not sure if I want to see Fujibayashi in charge of another Zelda game. I think it's time to either A) give it to somebody like Retro and see what they can do or if they want to try to refine the progress made in Skyward Sword and keep things fresh, B) give it over to EAD Tokyo, which includes old school Zelda Team members Tezuka and Koizumi.

As for The Wind Waker, that game was kind of a mess structurally, and except for the concept of a partner in the Earth and Wind Temples, had some of the worst dungeons in the series. Skyward Sword is a much better game than The Wind Waker. It's obvious that The Wind Waker was a bit rushed, and Skyward Sword had plenty of time in development.

cajunator said:
Nathan Drake runs like an idiot. I hope Link doesnt run like that, swaying his head side to side like a Louisiana drunkard.

I guess that's just personal opinion then. I mean, on a technical level, it looks to me like Nathan's movements are better than Link's. I'm speaking about in-game, real time sequences where you're in control. The cutscenes in Skyward Sword looked fine.
 

Hiltz

Member
Skyward Sword is Fujibayashi's first time as director for a home console Zelda title. However, he was director of the two GBA Zelda titles as well as Minish cup and Four Swords. For Phantom Hourglass, he was the subdirector.
 

Big One

Banned
TSA said:
The best thing I can say to you other than making a long list of points of what I liked and disliked in Twilight Princess and then comparing those to Skyward Sword in terms of explaining why I like one better than the other is this. Skyward Sword wasn't the type of evolution I wanted in the franchise, though I held out hope up until I played the final version. I was a champion of change, but I think Twilight Princess is so refined and polished for what it is that it is overall, as a whole, a better game than Skyward Sword because the latter feels like it is testing the waters with a lot of new mechanics and ideas, where some work and others, to me, just didn't.
Yeah but despite all of this, Skyward Sword is still ultimately and undeniably the better designed game. The pacing, control, dungeon design, and overworld design is completely superior to Twilight Princess in every way possible. You can complain that the game has fetch quests all you want, but the thing about Skyward Sword in comparison is that Twilight Princess doesn't really have those things to complain about. In comparison Twilight Pricness has nothing, no sidequests, no major collectables aside from bugs, and no dynamic relationships with NPCs.
 

Big One

Banned
brandonh83 said:
get out of here, really?
Well there are some secret areas with a bunch of fairies for you to bottle up.

But no there isn't any fairy fountains or great fairies. Even the areas I just said are scarce.
 
Big One said:
Well there are some secret areas with a bunch of fairies for you to bottle up.

But no there isn't any fairy fountains or great fairies. Even the areas I just said are scarce.

I feel like a lost puppy with no guidance

SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU FUCKERS BITCH ABOUT CHANGE

Zelda WiiU will have fucking dog tags in place of fairies, mark my words you hurtful sons of bitches.
 

Big One

Banned
I think if Fairy Fountains were in the game the game would be a lot easier than it is. I think it's a good thing to limit the player on this as it keeps up the challenge by avoiding the temptation.

I never used a fairy once in the game (as in, using it to ressurect Link) cause I barely encountered them.
 
Big One said:
I think if Fairy Fountains were in the game the game would be a lot easier than it is. I think it's a good thing to limit the player on this as it keeps up the challenge by avoiding the temptation.

they still could have just... had them...
 
brandonh83 said:
I feel like a lost puppy with no guidance

SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU FUCKERS BITCH ABOUT CHANGE

Zelda WiiU will have fucking dog tags in place of fairies, mark my words you hurtful sons of bitches.

the upgrade system will be modernized and expanded with an xp system

headshot +100XP to bow level, RDS unlocked
 
Big One said:
Yeah but despite all of this, Skyward Sword is still ultimately and undeniably the better designed game. The pacing, control, dungeon design, and overworld design is completely superior to Twilight Princess in every way possible. You can complain that the game has fetch quests all you want, but the thing about Skyward Sword in comparison is that Twilight Princess doesn't really have those things to complain about. In comparison Twilight Pricness has nothing, no sidequests, no major collectables aside from bugs, and no dynamic relationships with NPCs.

See, I disagree with you. I think aside from the opening of Twilight Princess, the pacing of the game is much better. I don't think I could ask for better controls than the GCN version of Twilight Princess (okay, inverted aiming is annoying, but everything else is great). I also think Twilight Princess has some of the best dungeons in the series - Snowpeak Ruins is one of the best dungeons in the entire franchise, and City in the Sky and Arbiters Grounds were pretty awesome. We already established Twilight Princess doesn't have that many side quests, but it certainly has a lot more minigames as far as I can tell. The collectibles/upgrades in Skyward Sword are better, and the NPC stuff is better in the sense of the quests you do. However, there are some great moments with NPCs in Twilight Princess that Skyward Sword can't touch. The whole arc with Rutela and her son was more touching than anything I saw in Skyward Sword. I think Midna is light years better than Fi as a sidekick, and as a character, she's much more compelling than Ghirahim or anyone else, though Groose is a pretty damn good character.
 
EmCeeGramr said:
the upgrade system will be modernized and expanded with an xp system

headshot +100XP to bow level, RDS unlocked

Nintendo should take notes from Infinity Ward, Treyarch, Guerilla, and Epic Games I think before it can play with da big dawgs.
 

Caelus

Member
Twilight Princess felt so soulless to me even the good parts with Rutela and Midna were overshadowed by my lack of excitement.

It was a good game, but not as good as I hoped.

However, I really liked the Hero's Shade.
 

Mistle

Member
It seems like there are many staple Zelda concepts that have been neglected in this game. Which hopefully only means they've cleared the way for heaps of cool, new concepts.
 

Red

Member
TSA said:
Thanks for this.

I'm going to disagree on animations and presentation in general. I know what you're saying with your clarification above about animation being superior in games like Assassin's Creed and Uncharted -- and in some ways I agree. But I think it's fitting for the style, and even being compared to the likes of Uncharted and AC is high praise indeed.

I also love the visuals. From playing the demo on Dolphin, I am so impressed by this that I can safely say it ranks among my favorite games visually this gen. And after having played through Crysis 2 DX11 and The Witcher 2, I wasn't sure anything else this year would come close.
 
Now to be even more obsessive than guessing the MC score days ago (it was 95) I know little about the plot, haven’t read spoilers. Basically I know who the named main characters and the assistant are, from the opening and Skyloft . So about my guesses (some thrown in for random fun) these are mainly based on the usual tropes of a Zelda game and the clichés of the genre with a bit of gut feeling. If the story is significantly different then it may be a pleasant surprise.

  • Ghirahim is planning to drain Zelda of her light, of the goddesses and use the power to release a seal. The darkness within the clouds could fall upon all over Hyrule and its sky. Only a few disciples of the goddesses are aware of this, including the leader of Skyloft and a founding Shiekah (who was also chosen to guard and train Zelda). It is a secret because the disciples themselves are the ones who created the seal against the evil, they are guilty for the world being split it two and would rather prefer its people live peacefully in ignorance with their daily lives. It’s a mixed blessing. Fi and the Skyward Sword were created as part of a prophesy. As the seal is slowly unveiling, Link enters through holes connecting both worlds, land and sky, and in the centre evil blows in the clouds. The day has come when the chosen hero of the gods must destroy the evil within the seal, here we go again.

  • Ghirahim can travel anywhere except when focusing his power to fight & drain, his master dedicated a long time to crafting him as a dark counter-part to Fi. He has her teleporting abilities but for narrative reasons his personality is the polar opposite.

  • First is the trial of the goddesses so Link can prove his courage. He needs the orb thingies of nature, fire and water before he can pull out the Skyward Sword and go to confront Ghirahim as well as rescue Zelda (obviously)

  • There will be a character obsessed with animals; a mini game will involve you having to take the little 'uns back to them. It looks cruel. You will get a bottle.

  • Tingle will not make an appearance.

  • There will be a level covered in gusts with four directions that keep looping themselves, but the true path will be revealed to those with a keen ‘eye’. The new ability in the series will work by pointing the Wii remote, music cues will play coming out of the Wii-remote as well as inform players once they’ve chosen a right direction.

  • Eventually Link’s bitter rival Groose will let down his grudge and subtly respect Link. Link will then get to the dungeon’s walls next door and the rival will only be seen again in his final appearance where he’s participating in his hobby (riding in the ending with his companions)

  • Ghirahim’s lair is on the ground, a Storm Voxtex hides it. It is built right next to where Hyrule’s main town was. It will have at least six floors even though it’s not the last level. Here, towards the end of the game there will be a shortcut to the real last level. Later another level will levitate on top. Zelda will be saved from here about a third through the game, and will have her guardian to protect her in a secret sanctuary. Link must continue to power up the sword and this potential power is being held back by the remaining bosses.

  • I’m guessing six dungeons, since the developer have spent more time assimilating the dungeons’ gameplay into the other levels. The third full dungeon will be entrenched with water and require water switches to manipulate the water levels. In a rocky region the second-to-last dungeon will have the most floors, its exterior will look like a monster and the boss will look like it.

  • We will see what looks like a mysterious Gerudo, no other connection is made clear between them and Ganon.

  • There will be a dragon boss; Link will ride it to tackle it down. Before that there will be a giant spider boss. One boss will swim in the water and need to be stunned with long–ranged weaponry. The boss then spasms and falls onto Link’s dry platform, who then has about 10 seconds to attack its jelly-like weak point that is dangling outside its mouth until it leaps back into the water, and it will occasionally spawn babies to distract you.

  • At one point villains will drop from an evil portal in the skies and then Skyloft will be left devastated, nonetheless Link will appear in the nick of time and save everyone. The main mural will be damaged and there will be houses on fire, yet no one will die but the monsters. After the invasion the smoke will clear although the sky will be darker. Moblins will more quickly appear when Link returns for optional items in that area (but the town will quickly be repaired for the ending). Zelda is now kidnapped again by Ghirahim, he finally has accumulated enough energy and the seal is released, she is taken to the top floor of the master’s castle and kept around to lure Link.

  • Link has his penultimate form of the Skyward Sword to break the barrier of the final level’s gate so he can ride onto it. Yet before he and his bird can get in, outside this castle they will have to fight against its soldiers, whilst the main villain will shoot at you. The final level will have split sections of it, devoted to different elements and keys for a corridor of locks, nature, fire, water, sand, ice… familiar. These areas will recycle boss battles and mini-boss battles. The final boss waits at the top floor with the darkest clouds & lightning.

  • The second-to-last-boss will be a zombified Ghirahim with red eyes; he’s possessed by his secret master, who he has spent the entire game trying to free. Light arrows will be needed to stun him, during this state you hit him with the Skyward Sword in the face. Other weapons will generally be useless on these guys.

  • The master is fed up of “playing” and mutates Ghirahim’s body into a hulk. The last boss’ final form will be a straight-up weapon fight again with this primal, horned and hairy beast, which looks like Malludus crossed with Ganon. He wields the Trident of Power, which is powered by what’s left of Ghirahim’s soul. Fi will make a ‘tragic’ sacrifice and lose her life in her humanoid form, Fi’s final words will be encouraging ones about how the future of the world will be protected by her and Link. Now she can fully power the Skyward Sword, the Master Sword! Pick it up. This plays. This will change the final boss’ music so it’s more heroic. The light wakes Zelda up and she borrows your light arrows. You will finish the Master off by impaling its head and climatically making the pose from the front cover.

  • The Master Sword ‘repels all the evil’ so all the clouds are pure. As the evil fades away, Link quickly escapes the collapsing castle. The Trident of Power falls into the ground and is lost, waiting ages to influence a new master. The game will end with the disciples of the Goddesses who fuse their magic and land Skyloft in the centre of Hyrule. A version of this theme is played here. It is implied that this is beginning of Hyrule Castle Town and the new kingdom! As the world was originally meant to be, the Triforce will appear to mark the beginning of the new world. The ending credits will then reveal a montage of how the Sky people are united with Hylian life. New alliances are formed, almost everyone is happy. We will see a horse that looks like Epona. About 30 seconds of the following themes are played each: Zelda’s main theme, the Fairy theme, Skyloft’s theme, the ending theme will mostly be a more melodic remix of the main theme and it’s playing through the main instrument of the game. We see the Master Sword placed in a pedestal, just like the one in the Temple of Time. Pre-credits… there will be a scene after showing ‘The Hero of Sky’ riding his bird with Princess Zelda through Hyrule on a new adventure! But as usual the timeline isn’t completely made clear and what game takes first after is a mystery.

  • There will be no deeper romance between Zelda.

  • There will be a secret costume, Link’s pyjamas can be unlocked for the entirely of a new game.

Of course I suspect some of the lucky guys/gals who will have finished may laugh, I’ll find out in the next week.
 

cajunator

Banned
TSA said:
For once, I agree with you.

The best thing I can say to you other than making a long list of points of what I liked and disliked in Twilight Princess and then comparing those to Skyward Sword in terms of explaining why I like one better than the other is this. Skyward Sword wasn't the type of evolution I wanted in the franchise, though I held out hope up until I played the final version. I was a champion of change, but I think Twilight Princess is so refined and polished for what it is that it is overall, as a whole, a better game than Skyward Sword because the latter feels like it is testing the waters with a lot of new mechanics and ideas, where some work and others, to me, just didn't.

This leads into the question somebody else asked. I think they can take what they did in Skyward Sword and improve it, and mix in even more new concepts. However, I'm not sure if I want to see Fujibayashi in charge of another Zelda game. I think it's time to either A) give it to somebody like Retro and see what they can do or if they want to try to refine the progress made in Skyward Sword and keep things fresh, B) give it over to EAD Tokyo, which includes old school Zelda Team members Tezuka and Koizumi.

As for The Wind Waker, that game was kind of a mess structurally, and except for the concept of a partner in the Earth and Wind Temples, had some of the worst dungeons in the series. Skyward Sword is a much better game than The Wind Waker. It's obvious that The Wind Waker was a bit rushed, and Skyward Sword had plenty of time in development.



I guess that's just personal opinion then. I mean, on a technical level, it looks to me like Nathan's movements are better than Link's. I'm speaking about in-game, real time sequences where you're in control. The cutscenes in Skyward Sword looked fine.

The animation in UNcharted 3 can be really janky. Drake has a way of snapping onto objects, such as when he jumps across to a ledge or a pipe and the transition looks pretty awful.
 

Big One

Banned
TSA said:
See, I disagree with you. I think aside from the opening of Twilight Princess, the pacing of the game is much better. I don't think I could ask for better controls than the GCN version of Twilight Princess (okay, inverted aiming is annoying, but everything else is great). I also think Twilight Princess has some of the best dungeons in the series - Snowpeak Ruins is one of the best dungeons in the entire franchise, and City in the Sky and Arbiters Grounds were pretty awesome. We already established Twilight Princess doesn't have that many side quests, but it certainly has a lot more minigames as far as I can tell. The collectibles/upgrades in Skyward Sword are better, and the NPC stuff is better in the sense of the quests you do. However, there are some great moments with NPCs in Twilight Princess that Skyward Sword can't touch. The whole arc with Rutela and her son was more touching than anything I saw in Skyward Sword. I think Midna is light years better than Fi as a sidekick, and as a character, she's much more compelling than Ghirahim or anyone else, though Groose is a pretty damn good character.
Okay for one you have to remember that when it comes to mini-games, Twilight Princess really does have considerably less than Skyward Sword. Say otherwise all you want, but this is a straight up fact. Twilight Princess barely has any mini-games at all for the most part and I'm surprised you'd even make that point.

I agree Twilight Princess has great dungeons but I think Skyward Sword overall has better dungeons. Most of the dungeons with the exception of the Skyview Temple and Earth Temple are overall better designed, more challenging, and more fun than any of their counterparts in Twilight Princess or Ocarina of Time. The first two dungeons in Skyward Sword are still better than the first two dungeons in Twilight Princess also. Sandship is also completely superior to Snowpeak Ruins which are both untraditional dungeons, but the later is still stuck in traditional block moving puzzle roots making it more dated despite the unique theme it has.

I'm not even sure how you can argue against the combat and overworld design. I literally have no words for this in how you think either Twilight Princess or Ocarina of Time are superior to this as I find this quite baffling. I did before I played the game, and I'm even more baffled after playing it. It's a valid complaint to say there are a lack of variety when it comes to areas, but the overall design of them + the game's combat is superior to any 3D Zelda yet. Skyward Sword is the only 3D Zelda that is able to capture the tight design of 2D Zelda games, put also the most challenging Zelda game yet (sans Zelda II) in terms of difficulty.

I don't think I can convince you of this otherwise but once more people play this game the more people will disagree with you, which doesn't bode well for your impressions
 

Watch Da Birdie

I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
So, for those of you who have played it, what classic enemies make a return? Any enemies make their first 3D appearance?
 

MisterHero

Super Member
Finally Zelda has come back to the Wii

It will be the first game I've bought at launch since Smash Bros. Brawl, and I already paid the pre-order in full. The remote had a little to do with it, I suppose. :D
 
To someone who's completed the third dungeon and is on to the next task, I need a little help.

Where do I find the
windmill propeller
? Searched all over for the damn thing. It's driving me mad.
 

Caelus

Member
chalkitdown1 said:
Where do I find the
windmill propeller
? Searched all over for the damn thing. It's driving me mad.

I think in
Eldin Volcano, near one of the places where you found a key piece. Go to the Temple Entrance, face down the mountain, go to your right where you knocked down a tower and I think that's it.
 
cajunator said:
The animation in UNcharted 3 can be really janky. Drake has a way of snapping onto objects, such as when he jumps across to a ledge or a pipe and the transition looks pretty awful.

The worst animation in Uncharted 3 is when you just barely move. Like I said in the OT "It's like watching a constipated Slinky trying to navigate a minefield." I mean I loved Uncharted 3 but that was horrible.
 
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