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[oc]

Nice modern UI? That thing is hideous. Maybe even worse than AoC's UI.

Maybe I was just expecting too much. Something new, I guess. It's not doing anything new for the genre.

The combat is just awful. It felt like I had barely any control over my character. Was i playing as a robot or what?

 

[Ikuu]

From what I played of the beta it's WoW with elements from your standard offline RPG, I would be curious how much effect you actually have on the world/game with your choices. But I'd rather just play an offline RPG than pay for an MMO which is similar. I just think they've played it far too safe and could have do something so much more.

No idea what end-game is like, also what is up with some of the textures, game looks garbage at times.

 

[Guesong]

It's an excessively linear experience.

In WoW, when you are leveling, you generally have a choice about where to go in any given level range ; Stonetalons Mountains? Thousand Needles? Loch Modan?

Granted, most people would figure out the "optimal" leveling path and grind that anyways on all their toons, but at least you have a choice, a feeling of freedom in what you do.

In TOR, you don't have a choice. It's Dromund Kaas to Balmarra to Nar Shaddaa to Tatooine to Alderaan to Taris to...there's ONE planet for a level range, and that's it. (Empire Side)

Class Quests are all mysteriously located in the vicinity of other class quests 90 % of the time so you end up visiting the same locations on planets any given playthru.

PvP? Where? Even if it's a both-factions planet, BioWare went out of their way to put the starting cities on the opposites end of the world, and made sure to make the world very vast (filled with emptiness, might I add ; I'm driving a scooter for like 2 minutes just to get a fetch quest and back, with nothing interesting in between? Why?)

Also, instancing. Oh, instancing. Basically, there can be any number of "instance" of a planet ; each of these instances will hold 200 players (your side). May be 200, may be 50, but that's the maximum numbers of allies you'll see on your planet. So when it's 50, it's really freakin dull. If it wasn't for the chat, I'd swear I was alone with 3-4 other people most of the time. It's basically the system Guild Wars 1 use...except Guild Wars 1 is, you know, free. Right now I feel like I'm paying 15 $ a bucks (or I WOULD pay that but already canceled my sub) for a glorified chat system.

Granted I have not reached level 50 yet (40 so far), so I couldn't tell you what the endgame is, but I'm not even sure the awful grind to get there is worth your money.

TL;DR : TOR has its moments hidden deep, deep, deep beneath a thick crust of awfulness.


^^ Ikuu : It adopts a Mass Effect 2 / Dragon Age 2 System : you'll see all your deep repercussions on the world...in your mailbox!

 

[Swag]

Well, thanks for that Guesong.

 

[Guesong]

Well, I did sound a bit overly harsh.

I think it mostly depends in what you are looking for in a MMO, and what is your background. Personally, coming from BC-WotLK-Cata WoW, I have had my fair share of "that genre" of MMO.

Star Wars do try something new ; the fully voiced dialogues are a welcome and appreciated change, and the class quests are generally well done and worth watching all the cutscenes and dialogues.

The companion system also helps the player feels like he's one of the elite of the Republic/Army, allowing you to take on groups of enemies with efficiency.

That said, this is not marketed as a single player game. If you are new to MMO and mainly looking for a MMO to sink your teeth into, then WoW still sits in that throne, high and mighty. If you come from WoW or something similar, then this is WoW with a new coat of shiny paint and alot less functionalities implemented at this point. In which case, don't switch from WoW cause the world novelty, especially when you are in a fixed leveling path, gets old and tiring about 2 weeks in.

It's not that TOR is a bad game. It's just that, as I said, I really feel it's a single player game for the most part with a chat system added in for a whooping 15 $ per month. I know procarbine and Freakinchair like the instancing system I described earlier, because it does allow people to peacefully get their quest mobs without having to fight for it with other players. (Did I mention there were instances inside the instanced planets? Inception!) But I don't like it. For its good and its bad, an MMO should be about interactions with people, for the better or worst.

ANYHOW! I'll stop writing essays about SWTOR in the HoN thread (though what HoN news is there to talk about nowadays...even I am getting tired of the ridiculousness of the pricing system, which keeps going back up to 600 gold levels with an even worse silver pricing this time around, ugh), but if you have any questions about it, holla me up on Steam or Mumble.

HONTALK : Monarch is fucking silly good. I knew that already but since she's free to play I've seen her in my games yesterday and I wanted to hang myself.

 

[IceMarker]

I hope a new balance patch shows up this Friday along with Artesia.

 

[Dreavus]

Won a game against a super farmed Flint who had gotten himself an immortal earlier in the game... He bought a Doombringer somewhere near the end and lost it to us, which we gave to Sil (lol).

My first time seeing that new assassin's shroud upgrade item too.

 

[IceMarker]

My first time seeing that new assassin's shroud upgrade item too.

Genjuro is crazy good.

 

[Lone_Prodigy]

I love Star Wars and like Bioware games so TOR is right up my alley, but I refuse to pay a subscription fee for any game. Maybe in the future when they've recouped their costs (I hear it cost $80M to make) and they go F2P I'll give it a shot.

 

[Haly]

So this is where HonGAF disappeared to.

 

[Anbokr]

Anbokr and Freakinchair, how good is Old Republic, should I buy it?

Ok, so, there are a lot of haters, but man am I a lover (dont go in the swtor thread, they are all typical annoying gaming gaf that whine about every nuance--one dude literally said the lack of server forums ruined the game for him. Idk about chair, but I am having a blast; we've been playing a lot so we can hit 50 before vacation is over and chair goes on a cruise, but I've enjoyed every bit. We joke that my warrior is the brainless, psychopathic baffoon, and chair's char is the schizophrenic unstable chick (just based on the dialogue in the game--it is hilariously good).

I'm not going to say much about the story, because it's there, it's great, it's like a star wars movie; if you're a star wars nerd like me you will absolutely love this aspect. There are certain cut scenes/dialogue moments that will make you squeel (literally!) at the awesomeness (I've done it, pro has done it, chair has done it--it seems to be a recurring thing). Demi seems to be orgasming over the early quest sequences, and those are the first 10 levels! It gets way better the higher you go.

The gameplay is great, ranged classes seem a little too strong at the moment, but every class has a toolbox worth of skills (probably over 20+, requires multiple action bars to fit everything--and trust me, you use everything). I love this aspect because it puts skill at the top. Sure, there will always be the flavor of the month class, but everything feels in your hands--you have to know when to use or save your 5 defensive CDs, you have to use your skills (there is no autoattack, this isn't press 3 buttons get top dps wow garbage), and every class makes you feel like a badass (warriors have an awesome looking charge, bounty hunters a jetpack bombardment, agents stealth/sniping, sorcerers lightning crazy stuff, etc...).

The flashpoints (aka dungeons) have been 10x better than any MMO I have ever played (including WoW); the fully voiced dialogue is great and adds a huge element to multi-staged flashpoints. The setpieces are simply breathtaking, and you actually feel like you're doing something epic or involved in something awesome--this is largely due to the stronger story elements in comparison to other MMOs (unlike WoW where u just kill some dude named van der dike or slay 1000 dragons). Every quest and flashpoint has legit choices that actually make you feel some emotion and feel important (iknorite wtf?--I know pro and I have had this feel while levelling up). The class quest line that spans level 1-50 is basically your own star wars trilogy, and is just straight up epic (especially the sith warrior class questline--it is awesome). Every planet ties into your class quest, and this is the primary motivator of your quest to 50 which makes it feel nothing like a grind.

There's also a cool feature called legacy that you unlock once you finish your Act I of your class quest (level 32-35ish) that ties all of your characters on the server with a surname; you accrue legacy experience and levels from that point on that in the future you can spend on a second talent tree that crosses all of your characters (I don't think it's going to be talents in the traditional sense, but instead, perks and customization unlocks).

There are some bugs, there are some features I would like implemented (dual spec, more gear choices for marauder, better auction house), but in all it is a very well designed game. The gameplay is solid and based entirely on skill (the lack of an autoattack and lots of abilities to use really brings out the bads). The animations and setpieces are breathtaking, planet graphics are great. The quests and the story are just straight up fun and immersive, and the dungeons have blown me away.

I can't speak much about the endgame, but they are already planning on adding more operations (raids) in the coming patch, and I heard there are already 2-3 operations and basically heroic flashpoints. PVP is also a blast and getting huge content updates (largely due to server pvp--it creates fun rivalries) and I can see myself doing this for a long time at 50.

In all, I would recommend (if you have the money), to buy it and give it a month. I really enjoyed it (as a star wars nerd it's everything I wanted and more), I think chair is enjoying it, and I think pro is really enjoying it. It's a lot more fun if you have someone to quest with but that shouldn't be a problem with pro still leveling, I'm going to level alts, and astroboy's friends (demi and co.) have started characters on Keller's void (I think astroboy will follow suit when his vacation is over). Chair and I got a lot of flak for playing on a pve server, but this isn't WoW--a pvp server isn't the same. Most of the planets have separate republic/empire zones, so you will rarely run into the other faction while questing to 50, and at 40+ there is an entire planet dedicated to pvp where everyone goes if they want to pvp (some planets also have designated shared pvp areas where people go). So basically pvp servers aren't any different, they just involve bored level 50s leaving their zone area and camping people (there aren't any fun, group of 30s vs group of 30s trying to quest in the same area).

@Guesong, I disagree with a lot of what you're saying. The class quests located in similar vicinities is a minor complaint, they are all very different epic quests, do you want them to design 15 separate planets for each class? Let's be real here. As to the WoW is a better MMO/community vehicle, I completely disagree. TOR has way more features than pre-wrath wow ever had, and much more is coming. The sense of community/rivalry is amplified by the server PVP warzones that disappeared from WoW awhile back. In WoW, I can go 1-85 without speaking to a single person. If you do this in TOR, you will hit 50 VERY VERY slowly, and be way underlevelled for your content. You HAVE to group up for later heroic 4 quests (companions add an awesome feel to the game, but they by no means allow you to solo these 4 man quests, especially later on), and flashpoints (dungeons) are really rewarding, provide lots of loot, great story/content, and lots of xp. There's much more of a reason for me to group up and play with someone in TOR than when I was levelling up in WoW, but that is just me personally. TOR to me is basically WoW, with better backstory/lore (just because I love star wars more than medieval fantasy), with a better levelling system (the levelling is exactly the same... replace planet with zone in WoW; it's just TOR quests are actually fun and rewarding). I mean Guesong, have you played WoW? You get a group of quests in Area A, go do all these quests in Area B, turn in quests in Area A; move on to Area C, and repeat. TOR basically takes the same model but improves on it.

Sorry for the giant wall of text, but TLDR: I really like this game, and want people to know there are a lot of people that think this game is awesome aside from some of the negative nancies (some people have legitimate complaints about this game or their expectations don't matchup but a lot of what I have seen in the swtor thread and other places is really frivilous drivel/complaints--typical gaf just TRYING their best to find any trace of a flaw and turn it into a complaint). To me, it's leaps and bounds more fun than WoW (from a gameplay, story, levelling, and dungeon perspective--can't speak too much about raids yet). Also, I've been streaming some of TOR recently for people that have been asking (tomat, kag, alumnus, neki, etc...) and I'd be happy to throw it up when you're on sometime.

 

[Guesong]

(just because I love star wars more than medieval fantasy),

And there you have it, the big problem in your judgment.

Your entire @Guesong paragraph is riddled with lies and total absurdity, but we've spammed the thread enough as it is.

 

[Anbokr]

And there you have it, the big problem in your judgment.

Your entire @Guesong paragraph is riddled with lies and total absurdity, but we've spammed the thread enough as it is.

I could call your interpretation of the game lies and absurdity as well, but whatever; I'll settle at different interpretations. I love Star Wars, and that makes a good game even better for me; but strictly from a gameplay/questing/levelling standpoint--the game is solid. Of course, "WoW is better, gameplay sux, class quests same area, companions suxorz make game ez. if ur a fan all ur argument is bad/biased." is a compelling argument too. If I'm a movie critic that loves action thrillers, that doesn't mean I can't be critical/appreciative of certain action thrillers. In fact, the only star wars game I have truly liked up until this point has been the battlefront series; The Force Unleashed straight up sucked (but hey I like star wars, my opinion is invalid).

 

[Haly]

ToR is WoW IN SPAAAAAAACE.

If you like WoW and SPACE you'd like ToR. If you're bored of WoW and you like SPACE, you can play ToR as a single player game. If you like neither WoW nor SPACE, there's no reason to play ToR.

Oh and, although WoW quests are generally more fun than ToR quests (Blizzard made a big deal out of breaking away from kill x collect y quests in Cata), the overall experience is as linear as ToR thanks to the streamlining they did, by making giant chains of quests instead of quest hubs like Vanilla to Wrath.

 

[Swag]

And I disagree with your disagreement alot, but we've spammed the thread enough as it is, so I won't bother.

Honestly hardly anyone uses this thread to talk about HoN, don't feel bad.

Anbokr Opinion

Just a few questions.

1. How fun is the PvP, I know you talked about the combat being fun, but in regards to the maps and scenarios they present, are they varied or engaging? What scenarios do they give, Capture the Flag, King of the Hill etc.
2. In regards to longevity of the game, is it going to be dungeon focused, or do they give enough incentive in PvP to play that entirely, for example raiding vs Arena and Rated BGs in WoW?

Spoiler

I'm sure someone will read this and say "just fucken buy the game"

Thanks for the opinion Bokr.

If you like WoW and SPACE you'd like ToR. If you're bored of WoW and you like SPACE, you can play ToR as a single player game. If you like neither WoW nor SPACE, there's no reason to play ToR.

Pro proves otherwise! Although I can see the similarities a little bit between the two games.

 

[Anbokr]

ToR is WoW IN SPAAAAAAACE.

If you like WoW and SPACE you'd like ToR. If you're bored of WoW and you like SPACE, you can play ToR as a single player game. If you like neither WoW nor SPACE, there's no reason to play ToR.

Oh and, although WoW quests are generally more fun than ToR quests (Blizzard made a big deal out of breaking away from kill x collect y quests in Cata), the overall experience is as linear as ToR thanks to the streamlining they did, by making giant chains of quests instead of quest hubs like Vanilla to Wrath.

This I completely disagree with. I feel like basically every TOR quest from 1-50 is a better version of WoW Cata/WOTLK quests where they tried to move away from the grindiness. I think a huge part for me that makes the quests better is the dialogue and the sense of importance/motivation to actually do some of the quests. They don't feel pointless like a lot of the pre-wotlk era wow quests.

I do agree with the WoW in space comment though, it plays very similar; but I think the lack of an autoattack, the crazy amount of abilities, and the presence of a companion adds a different flavor of gameplay to the game (but the general feel is similar).

Edit:

Just a few questions.

1. How fun is the PvP, I know you talked about the combat being fun, but in regards to the maps and scenarios they present, are they varied or engaging? What scenarios do they give, Capture the Flag, King of the Hill etc.
2. In regards to longevity of the game, is it going to be dungeon focused, or do they give enough incentive in PvP to play that entirely, for example raiding vs Arena and Rated BGs in WoW?

In regards to 1, I am having a blast in PvP warzones (but that is probably because I am a higher level than most people right now). PVP at a very low level just flat out sucks; I don't recommend it unless you're playing with friends. PVP at level 25 (for some classes), 30, and even better 40+ is pretty damn fun. Right now, there is an arathi basin style warzone, an interesting capture the flag type warzone (you grab the ball in the middle and have to take it to the enemy team's base, all the while trying to dodge obstacles like fire etc... I really enjoy it. Warzones scale people to the base stats of a level 50 character, but lower levels are missing out on extra stats from epic level 50 armor, and are missing out on a lot of the awesome abilities/talents you get later on. There are WTF THIS IS SO STUPID moments when you are about to score and get pulled off the ledge by a bounty hunter, and there are WTF THIS IS AWESOME AND I AM AWESOME, when you charge a guy at the enemy base, leaping from far away and scoring), and there is an objective based warzone (basically, plant the bomb, activate the bridge, plant another bomb, and access the secret data or whatever--this one is my favorite because it involves objects, killing, and lots of team play--it forces your team to play together because of the narrow hallways... unlike the other warzones where you have idiots going off and doing nothing). The most fun for me comes from the server rivalries between both Republic vs. Empire AND Empire vs. Empire (or republic vs republic, which can happen in Huttball). Also, every class has a HUGE toolbox of abilities to use, and in my experience, pvp comes down to your skill and ability/resource management/game sense (sure there's lots of frustrating CC and certain people are absolute beasts because they have pvp gear and are level 50 way ahead of everyone else). I play a marauder which is basically a dps warrior with some rogue-like abilities. I have a mortal strike, an execute, a vanish, 5 defensive cooldowns, 5 offensive cooldowns (basically + buffs), a slow, two leaps (1 from class, 1 from spec), nice aoe burst, an interrupt, an aoe fear, multiple damaging abilties, three different lightsaber styles (your choice is usually based on spec), and lots of other stuff I can't think of. That just gives you an idea of how deep each class is (and the game just launched... no xpacs, no major balance patches... yet).

They give lots of incentive to play both PVE and PVP. It's like WoW in the sense that there is a set of PVP gear and a set of PVE gear--both of which are hard to obtain. You get the best gear by doing operations or lots of warzones/pvp dailies. There are 3 tiers of PVE and PVP gear that you progress through. PVP progression is pretty straightforward and I like it, but I don't feel like explaining it right now (based on a token system like WoW, but there is also the old WoW feature of rankings--rank 1-60, from skirmisher to gladiator to centurion to champion to battlemaster). It doesn't seem to take that long, there are already a few battlemasters and quite a few champions/centurions.

They also said in a recent update that the next content patch will add a few new warzones and expand on current operations (raids)--so the endgame seems very similar to the WoW endgame. You want the best stuff, you raid or do pvp. You want to see awesome stories and still have access to awesome looking/good armor; you level characters and stick to endgame flashpoints and warzones. Bioware has also said they have flirted with the idea of adding an arena-like game mode, but no one knows if this is coming or not (me though, I'm a battleground guy, and awesome warzones combined with server pvp makes PVP very rewarding for me).

SWTOR is not Guild Wars 2 or Age of Conan, it is not trying to completely redesign/shake the entire MMO genre (sure every game has cheesy marketing lines). It is taking a tried and true formula, improving on it, adding voice overs and injecting an epic story and lightsabers into a game that is deeply influenced by WoW (but to me, still manages to feel different/better despite the similarities). I can honestly say that I can never go back to WoW after playing SWTOR unless a new WoW expansion does some crazy things (not going to be true for a lot of people, but it is for me personally).

 

[Kaper]

Nice modern UI? That thing is hideous. Maybe even worse than AoC's UI.

Maybe I was just expecting too much. Something new, I guess. It's not doing anything new for the genre.

The combat is just awful. It felt like I had barely any control over my character. Was i playing as a robot or what?

Sums up how I felt about the beta.

 

[Haly]

This I completely disagree with. I feel like basically every TOR quest from 1-50 is a better version of WoW Cata/WOTLK quests where they tried to move away from the grindiness. I think a huge part for me that makes the quests better is the dialogue and the sense of importance/motivation to actually do some of the quests. They don't feel pointless like a lot of the pre-wotlk era wow quests.

I only played up to 10 in the beta, so I don't know what the quests are like beyond that point.

However, comparing the BH starting area to, say, the Goblin starting area in WoW, I can definitely say it was more fun starting out as a Goblin than a BH.

(I have no interest in the story, which failed to hook me at all, or the lore of the universe so that is also part of it.)

 

[Anbokr]

I only played up to 10 in the beta, so I don't know what the quests are like beyond that point.

However, comparing the BH starting area to, say, the Goblin starting area in WoW, I can definitely say it was more fun starting out as a Goblin than a BH.

(I have no interest in the story, which failed to hook me at all, or the lore of the universe so that is also part of it.)

Ah there it is. I agree with you, I liked the worgen starting zone better than some of the SWTOR ones (although the warrior/inquisitor starting area is pretty boss; the jedi/agent one didn't do it for me). The game really shines from a story perspective after you leave your starting zone; it gets really really good, scary good, for an MMO (from a story/class quest perspective solely).

 

[IceMarker]

H-hey guys can we t-talk about HoN, s-since this is the h-HoN thread...

 

[Kapura]

 

[bzm]

H-hey guys can we t-talk about HoN, s-since this is the h-HoN thread...

its not like i l-like hon or anything... baka

 

[Swag]

its not like i l-like hon or anything... baka

Weaboo

 

[Guesong]

Well if you so insist, I will oblige you. Don't say I didn't warn you.

TOR has way more features than pre-wrath wow ever had, and much more is coming

Who cares about 3 years ago? We're now at Cataclysm WoW in the present, in the timeframe in which TOR is also released, and TOR lacks alot of feature compared to the present WoW. Raid finder, Dungeon Finder, Better Talent Trees, Dungeon Journal and item trading accomodations are, on the top of my head, excellent features that WoW offers that are so much missing from my TOR experience atm. OH, and dual spec of course. Sorely, sorely missing at the moment.

Much more in coming? When? In 6 months, 1 year, 2 years?

The sense of community/rivalry is amplified by the server PVP warzones that disappeared from WoW awhile back.

A huge, ingame battlefield. Not a separate instance. That's what build rivalries. Not PvP warzones. While warzones does help at building rivalries, you are mistaken if you think WoW lost that by losing battleground popularity.

You never had the occasion to struggle for control of Southshore, right? The whole area, having Southshore as an Alliance Town and Tarren Mill as a Horde town, being located so damn close from each other, with people questing all over the place. And that's just one location amongst others, though it definitively was the most epic.

Is there a battle for Tatooine? No, and there never will be, cause the questing areas are purposely on opposite ends of the world.

In WoW, I can go 1-85 without speaking to a single person. If you do this in TOR, you will hit 50 VERY VERY slowly, and be way underlevelled for your content.

I'm not talking to anyone, I'm doing the bonus series on all planets while skipping the heroics stuff and I'm still levels above the recommended level for planets when I change spot. Maybe you're just missing alot of quest hubs.

You HAVE to group up for later heroic 4 quests (companions add an awesome feel to the game, but they by no means allow you to solo these 4 man quests, especially later on)

As you had to group up for some of the post level-65 "group" quests of WoW.

and flashpoints (dungeons) are really rewarding, provide lots of loot, great story/content, and lots of xp

WoW dungeons give great loot and lots of xp.

Some Flashpoints are well designed, though, no doubt over that.

here's much more of a reason for me to group up and play with someone in TOR than when I was levelling up in WoW, but that is just me personally.

Earning Social Points? And you do earn additional experience when you help out finishing group members bonus quests.

Reasons specifics to TOR ends there, though, and I don't believe that is "much more". But yes, it is more than WoW I suppose.

TOR to me is basically WoW, with better backstory/lore (just because I love star wars more than medieval fantasy)

As you mentioned, that's purely subjective. I like both, personally.

with a better levelling system (the levelling is exactly the same... replace planet with zone in WoW; it's just TOR quests are actually fun and rewarding)

Let's bring up 2 scenarios here.

WoW : A ferocious Orc Warrior finishes his initial starting zone (let's say level 10), and must now decide where to go next. Will he decide to go the Ghostlands, a once-beautiful and lush Blood Elf forest, now desecrated by the undead? Will he rather stay in the desert-like area of Northern Barrens, now destroyed by the Cataclysm? Or will he venture out to the dangerous forests of Silverpine, where the Forsaken are mounting an assault on Gilneas?

TOR : A proud bounty hunter finishes his initial starting zone (level 10-11) and sets out to participate in the Great Hunt. To do so, he can venture out to Dromund Kaas, a jungle-like planet where dangers lurks at every turn.

And that's it for the proud bounty hunter.

WoW : The ferocious Orc, having chosen to go to the Ghostlands and having finished the zone (around level 18-20), is now faced with another dilemna. Will he go help the war effort in the contested forest of Ashenvale? Will he dares steps into the dangerous mountain area of Hillsbrad Foothills and seek out Tarren Mill, where Southshore is dangerously close?

TOR : Having finished his business on Dromund Kaas and having obtained his own ship, the Bounty Hunter continues on his quest for the Great Hunt. Following the advice of his mentor, he ventures to Balmorra, where the Empire is having trouble dealing with republic assaillants.

And that's it for the Bounty Hunter.

At the end of every leveling benchmarks up to level 60 (though you also have choices in Outland and Northrend), the WoW player always, always have a choice of zone to go to. As such, when you make other toons, you may full well change your leveling path, explore new areas and quests. You cannot do this in TOR. You are, on all your toons, predetermined on a fixed path that you cannot escape from, less you decide to grind instances.

If the ferocious orc decides he hates Ghostlands, he can switch to another zone appropriate to his level. The proud bounty hunter may hate Dromund Kaas, but he'll have to stick to it. And he will hate Alderaan, but alas, it sucks to be a proud bounty hunter.

And that's never pleasant.

it's just TOR quests are actually fun and rewarding)

Requoting just to refocus on that remaining part.

You are doing nothing different in TOR that you were in WoW. One could even argue that WoW has more diversity than TOR does at the moment, with the occasional vehicles quests. Kudos to TOR for having the grind quests as Bonus objectives pop ups when you reach a location, since that clears up alot of quest log clutters. But why were you there in the first place? Probably to find and retrieve 4 droid parts, or kill Major NPC, or report to Lieutenant Kapura. As such, they are identical to WoW, and to any other MMO really, like RIFT. And that's okay, it's not a jab or anything, it's just a statement of fact.

There is, of course, the space missions battles, which are quite a fun break from regular questing. It's sad that the associated quests are all dailies that asks you to repeat the same missions every day if you want the associated experience.

We must also note that for some reason, quests in TOR don't let you preview what your reward will be. Might be money, might be some items, who knows. For some it might add to excitement, perhaps.

But really, if you think TOR quests of classic MMO fares is fun and rewarding, that's good! Great even! But that also means that the same goes for Rift's quests, and WoW quests, cause really it's the same, though with dialogue.

I myself listen to all class-quest related cutscenes, but mash space thru everything else that is not a questchain (see the Thana Vesh questchain on Taris, that was good. She was so sexy). Good lord I could not care less about all the random other missions though.

I mean Guesong, have you played WoW?

Yes.

You get a group of quests in Area A, go do all these quests in Area B, turn in quests in Area A; move on to Area C, and repeat. TOR basically takes the same model but improves on it.

Yes. Refer to above answer about leveling paths. I'd be curious to see what are the improvements you are talking about. The bonus quests? You'd get the grind quests in WoW anyways. Other than that, I don't see what you might be referring to.

And I remind you that TOR takes away all leveling paths. How is that an improvement?


I'm sorry if I sounded like a jackass on my previous post ; rest assured I hold you no animosity or whatever, and it is getting pretty late (early?) here. I'm glad you enjoy TOR. I enjoy it at times as well. Maybe I'm just more critical cause I'm leveling multiples toons at the same time, and as such must endure the same areas thrice in a row. It is a solid MMO nonetheless. As you said, it might just be different strokes for different people.

And with this, I apologize to HonGAF for this huge post, and I extend my virtual friendly hand to Anbokr. I'm not looking to be right on the subject, I'm just offering my views. Feel free to respond and we can further discuss it, or other members can join in as well.

Man don't we love making Swag decisions hard.

EDIT 1 : Haha oh wow tons of people responded since I initially starting writing this >_>. Gosh it took me so long.

 

[Anbokr]

I played when there was a bunch of world pvp in WoW, and yes that was fun, but like you said; we are in the here and now: On my WoW server, there are absolutely zero world pvp raids (there used to be pre-wotlk). Occasionally, a group will get together for the achievement, they will kill the bosses and leave or they will wipe and give up after 2 minutes. LFG, LFR, honor grinding, and easier endgame rewards have killed that. Like I said, TOR is missing some good features (looking for group and dual spec is awesome), but when an MMO launches these aren't priorities. I still think it's important to see that it took blizzard 4 years to add dual spec and 5 years to add LFG (we can't have everything at once, sadly we must wait due to priorities--I'd rather have the game out now and enjoy levelling than waiting a few months for features like this that can come out while I play). Hopefully they arrive sooner rather than later, we will see. Right now they are focused on pumping a lot of content into the game, like blizzard, after there's a million years worth of content--features start to roll out (I'm no computer scientist, but I think a lot of these are engine/computer problems that need to be solved after the base game is finished to minimize bugs and such, but I'm speaking out of my ass and away from my field so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).
Edit: One of the hardcore PVPers stated that dual spec should be coming soon (don't know his source, so it's just his word, but I'll take it!), which will be HUGE for me and a lot of people.

Have you been to Ilum yet in TOR? A lot of the world pvp is based on that planet, the rivalries arise from Ilum and warzones. Anyhow, I'm more of a PVE guy while levelling up, so like I said earlier, the planet design can really irk a hardcore pvper that enjoys ganking people or fighting the opposing faction in similar quest areas. A lot of the PVP is based on Ilum and warzone (endgame) so that excludes early game PVP; for someone like me, I like this. For someone like Guesong, they don't. To each his own.

You really have to try the game in order to see if you like it. Guesong seems to like choice in levelling up, multiple zones/avenues. Whereas WoW provides multiple zones, TOR restricts you in order to maximize story and focus on creating an epic planet quest. In WoW I would leave the barrens or arathi hills feeling empty--grind, grind, grind, yay i helped the alliance trim some undead in arathi and kill some of some weird robber syndicate. In TOR I leave a planet feeling important, the planet changed, my decisions mattered; I left an impact. One I feel has more content/reward focused on a singular area whereas the other provides a variety of choices at the cost of consequence/story impact. Again, to each his own whether you prefer the former or the latter.

 

[Haly]

You'll all get bored eventually, then we can move onto TERA and later, GW2.

You'd like TERA Swag, you can recreate your perfect Korean waifu.

 

[oc]

You'll all get bored eventually, then we can move onto TERA and later, GW2.

You'd like TERA Swag, you can recreate your perfect Korean waifu.

or he can just not play that grindfest.. just wait for GW2 :/

 

[Procarbine]

The pvp system isn't as meaty as WoW's (no arena, no rated bgs), but it is an entirely different flavor. Please note that for the upcoming wall of text my opinions are based on doing some but not a ton of pvp in tor and doing tons of pvp in wow, maxing at 2400 arena during wrath.

Starting with maps:

The capture point map is a simplified AB, and is the weakest of the three, nothing new to talk about here.

Hutt ball is sort of like CTF, it's closest WoW equivalent being WSG. Now, I loved WSG, it was probably my favorite thing about wow throughout my time in it because you could play it so many different ways, the map had some interesting nuances, etc. Hutt ball takes out a nuanced map and replaces it with a far more interesting game imo. The ability the pass the ball combined with abilities that rapidly move characters like air charges, enemy/friendly pulls or pushes, etc, advances it beyond misdirect, take flag with MS buff or healers or both. An ultra-coordinated team can score in seconds, while uncoordinated ones will slog around for minutes and get nowhere. The pass isn't targeted, also, which is fun. It's an AoE on the ground so you can lead teammates or intercept bad enemy throws. The high catwalks you need to traverse to score quickly are great for making big plays, tossing pursuing/carrying players out with force push has been very entertaining for me.

The last map is similar to the large pvp areas in wow, whose names I can't remember. One team on offense, one on defense, capture points in succession to win. I haven't played this one enough to expand on what anbokr stated about it, but it's pretty fun in general.

Of course you guys can just say it will get old and tired just like everything does, but I can tell you that there is nothing stupidly broken in these maps like AV was/is in wow. No garbage 6-10 hour grindfests, no climbing on buildings yet, and an excellent anti-afk system. Combine this with the fact that these pvp areas are server only makes it/will make it a lot of fun for those that get into it at endgame. PvP rivalries in BGs were my favorite part of vanilla wow, it will be interesting to see if something like that comes back.

With regard to pvp combat itself, anbokr is right to say that some of the ranged classes seem a little stronger at this point, but is also right to point out that it's very difficult to faceroll people in the game at this point. There's no warlock casting 4 spells on you and walking away and you die, no early wrath DK huge dps/healing combos, no AP/PoM/double trinket/Pyro one shotting, no warrior charging, hamstringing and smashing on MS until you die, etc. From what I've seen, any class has the ability to outplay any other class, and burst damage isn't such that you can't overcome it with help from a teammate (given a situation like a stealther opening on you with lucky crits for half your health).

But, this is still early in the game and subject to change as the pvp stat becomes more widespread in those that are pvp committed. The huge difference is that this stat, instead of just increasing your resistance to damage, as resilience does, instead both increases your damage dealt to players while reducing damage received from players. This doesn't do all that much in equally geared scenarios, but it makes the gap between pve gear and pvp gear huge. Which means that you won't see pve geared dpsers come in and wreck people, or pve geared tanks be unkillable. Yes, they'll get good damage/tanking/w.e, but those with pvp gear will have a distinct advantage.

Here's my @guesong:

Yes, you go to the same planets and do some of the same quests, but what you completely disregard is the class stories. Talking to swag earlier today I told him I HATED leveling in wow, and that's entirely true, for all expansions except for vanilla, when everything was entirely new to me never having played an MMO before.

You can go 1-85 in wow never reading a single quest, just following your map and pressing buttons. People say that cata got away from the normal questing and it sort of did, but I still felt no connection to any sort of story, I was just doing different things. After finishing 80-85 on my hunter I got my paladin to 81 and said to myself, the fuck am I doing this again for, logged off, and never played the game again.

I'm just as big a LotR/Warhammer/Warcraft fantasy lover as I am a star wars lover, and I can honestly say that questing in WoW I only ever felt connected so some sort of story when my quests changed the map, and I NEVER at any point felt connected to my character. No background, no story, instead every 10 levels you go kill some guy and get a class defining ability. I was never emotionally invested.

ToR gives you the opportunity to connect to the characters, make decisions that feel weighty in both your class story series and the planet story. Chair was in a party with me during one of my story quests and I literally sat for almost two minutes trying to decide what to do in a conversation. Very few of these decisions are displayed in terrain, but they instead affect how other characters treat you/interact with you and open (or close) additional options later in the game.

Brief examples: I spared a group of republic soldiers who then owed me a favor, and then called them in to help me take down a boss later on. You have a companion with a shock collar on in your service: you can either shock them to the point where the become "broken" and do whatever you say without question, but they never speak to you. OR you can removed the collar, romance, and eventually marry them. You can even talk certain NPCs into either hating you or sleeping with you and doing you favors.

Point being, while not all decisions made result in visible changes, you are presented with the chance to become emotionally invested in the story. This, in my opinion, does not exist in wow at all. Calling leveling in this game a "grind" says to me that you don't care much about your class story, or just didn't give it a chance. If other class stories are even close to as good as the one for Sith Warrior, leveling an alt of each primary class would probably be an interesting experience.

Note on "populated feeling"; If you really need to see other people in your zone with you to define the genre, level via pvp so you can sit in the capital and watch people mill around. Quite frankly I don't miss things like waiting for quest spawns, people chaining mobs to me, stealing resource nodes, etc. Lore wise there really shouldn't be 15 up and coming sith all trying to recover the same stolen holocommunicator at once, that's just silly. Seeing only a few people around fosters the sense of your character as an individual progressing, rather than just another player in a rat race.

All of that being said, if you guys buy an MMO for endgame, this may not be for you, it's too early to tell. If you're willing to give leveling a go and you have the spare cash I'd say go for it, I like it as much as I did skyrim.

This shit is probably riddled with typos, but w/e.

 

[Haly]

or he can just not play that grindfest.. just wait for GW2 :/

Wait it's a grindfest? Izayoi told me it wasn't a grindfest.

I don't know who to believe

 

[Anbokr]

This video showcases a lot of pvp warzones/combat swag. Granted, it's of a marauder (one class), but from animations, to swag factor, to general awesomeness; the marauder has it all . This blog post also shows how committed they are to pvp--crap ton of changes coming in January. New warzones, level 50 only pvp bracket, ranked pvp, pvp stat tracking, changes to the pvp planet; all coming soon.

 

[Izayoi]

or he can just not play that grindfest.. just wait for GW2 :/

???

I've got two capped toons in TERA. It's not grindy at all. Did we play the same game?

TOR felt like more of a grind to me than TERA did.

 

[Swag]

This video showcases a lot of pvp warzones/combat swag.

Thanks I'll check it out in the morning

Procarbine Opinion

Thanks.

or he can just not play that grindfest.. just wait for GW2 :/

Judging by the fact it's Korean, my mind instantly associates it with grinding.

You'd like TERA Swag, you can recreate your perfect Korean waifu.

Is this that game with the huge crabs?

 

[Izayoi]

Judging by the fact it's Korean, my mind instantly associates it with grinding.

Is this that game with the huge crabs?

You shouldn't make that association.

And yes, there are giant crabs.

 

[Swag]

You shouldn't make that association.

I think it's fair to associate Korean MMOs with grinding, it happens in so many of them, MapleStory, Aion, Ragnarok Online to name a few. Tera not being a grind would be an exception.

 

[IceMarker]

Heroes of Newerth |OT| MMO of the Month Discussion

 

[Ikuu]

Huge Moon plays.

 

[Insured]

While I like several things I hear (20+ skills that you actually get to use per class? No auto attacking? Aiming for a similar skill cap with every class? I'll have to see to believe it) I've always found playing a grindy MMO competitively (PVP or PVE) a massive waste of time with completely awesome competitive games like for example SC2, DOTA or HoN available that do NOT require you to spend an initial 100 hours (or probably a bit less if you already had a max level char but you're just out of date) just to get into the real meat of the gameplay. As for TOR... Well... Yeah. It sounds like something I might enjoy for a month or two playing with a group of close friends, then you hit "max level" and the grindy core of the game only now starts to really show up :x

For someone who always skips quest text and tries to power through the leveling parts, having full voices doesn't change a lot. If I want a Star Wars fix, I'll rewatch the original trilogy. I don't know why I'm ranting when I feel so completely done with MMO's of any kind (did I mention grindiness? Games designed to consume as much of your time as possible while trying to keep you interested?)... Oh yeah, maybe it's the fact I'm in a Heroes of Newerth thread reading random MMO discussion, and not for the first time ;P

So basically pvp servers aren't any different, they just involve bored level 50s leaving their zone area and camping people (there aren't any fun, group of 30s vs group of 30s trying to quest in the same area).

This is 100% exactly what you will get out of a PVP server in WoW these days as well. Bored people stomping on characters that have zero chance of ever fighting back, thus wasting both the time of the people trying to level and their own time while at it. People can be real idiots.

Huge Moon plays.

Awesome.

 

[IceMarker]

Huge Moon plays.

I love how they immediately jump on him in chat lol

 

[Conceptor]

Huge Moon plays.

:looool

Moon's stream/gameplay is so much more entertaining than the other guys. I can't stand KingRaven's stream - he might be good but the dude acts like he's 5

 

[kagete]

its not like i l-like hon or anything... baka

bzm-tsun made me snort my coffee

 

[Meteorain]

Huge Moon plays.

That was amazing.

 

[Tomat]

You know what the problem with hot chocolate is?

It does nothing to quench thirst. I know, why drink hot chocolate when you're thirsty, right? Well slow your roll, I just happened to have hot chocolate and be thirsty at the same time.

I'm thinking cold ovaltine is a better thirst quencher. What you guys think?

 

[oc]

You know what the problem with hot chocolate is?

It does nothing to quench thirst. I know, why drink hot chocolate when you're thirsty, right? Well slow your roll, I just happened to have hot chocolate and be thirsty at the same time.

I'm thinking cold ovaltine is a better thirst quencher. What you guys think?

more ovartine prease

 

[Swag]

I'm thinking cold ovaltine is a better thirst quencher. What you guys think?

Never been a big fan of hot chocolate, unless it had marsh mellows in it, that being said, I don't think that Ovaltine is the same quality quencher as hot Tea is, just because of how thick it tends to be.

But why drink Hot Chocolate when you can drink delicious Pearl Milk Bubble Tea.

 

[Tomat]

Never been a big fan of hot chocolate, unless it had marsh mellows in it, that being said, I don't think that Ovaltine is the same quality quencher as hot Tea is, just because of how thick it tends to be.

But why drink Hot Chocolate when you can drink delicious Pearl Milk Bubble Tea.

I've never had hot tea, but that sounds pretty damn good.

 

[Haly]

We can't all live next to a Quickly.

(I love bubble tea but I dislike tapioca, I'd rather just have more tea)

 

[Freakinchair]

The pvp system isn't as meaty as WoW's (no arena, no rated bgs), but it is an entirely different flavor. Please note that for the upcoming wall of text my opinions are based on doing some but not a ton of pvp in tor and doing tons of pvp in wow, maxing at 2400 arena during wrath.

They're adding rated warzones in January at some point according to a recent update from the devs.

To Swag:

I've been playing WoW since the beginning and have played every MMO since and SWTOR is the first MMO that I actually want to invest time into for alts + endgame. The only other MMO I hit max level on was Rift and this game is much much better than Rift. Also it may be worth noting that, according to my brother, end game heroics are really hard and require good coordination + skill. I don't think this is going to be the MMO casualfest at max level that WoW is. I'll let you know how it is when I get back from my cruise if you haven't bought it by then - currently level 49 (out of 50).

 

[Tomat]

 

[Swag]

lol what is that.

 

[Tomat]

A ballin ass panda from Tera who looks very lost.