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Fact: Ultima Online was the only MMO ever worth playing.

DeathNote said:
I do wish there was constant stream of crazy wow stories to read.

I can't think of any off the top of my head right now.

More amusing than crazy: During the Burning Crusade days where POM Pyro was hot shit, my friend unsuspectingly /loled at a Mage while flying in the air. The mage POM Pyroed, killed my friend in the air, and popped slowfall.

They existed in good number in Vanilla and BC. I myself got great stories defending my felcloth farm spot in Felwood (Pro-tip: Rogues do not have a Levitate back then like us Priests) or me and a Ele. Shaman buddy luring members of a Nathanos Blightcaller raid away in ones and twos to kill (he's an asshole, but he's our asshole) till finally the whole GD raid steamrolled us.

These don't happen much any more.
 
I missed out on the UO days, and WoW ended up being my first MMO (although I played on some Neverwinter Nights persistent worlds for a while). I like how the players could really build their own adventures in UO style games, and had some of that experience in NWN. I like the idea of player housing, cities, guild halls (on my NWN server I ran a guild, and was allowed to make a custom guild-hall complete with merchants that was added into the server).

I admit, I somewhat like the challenge and risk vs reward thats just not present in todays MMO's. WoW would have been more interesting if there was an XP penalty to death (outside of battlegrounds of course).

That said, from what I have heard of UO I would have hated it. I simply have no tolerance whatsoever for peices of shit that want to kill lowbies over and over again, least of all in a game where death penalties are so severe. Its. Not. Fun. Any sort of griefing just turns me away from a game.

The NWN server I played on allowed Player vs Player, theivery, etc. However it was also an RP-server. Some level 10+ ass sitting outside of the town greifing level ones that were minding their own business would get a warning, then a ban. Since the community was far smaller than a real MMO and there was almost always a GM on, things were kept mostly under control. If you were a theif you had better be prepared to face the consequences (include death and/or jail time), there was also unspoken rules about stealing some hyper-valuable items from someone.

PvP was always role-played out, and no, saying "well I am an evil bandit so of course I can sit outside and kill easy prey" was not a valid excuse. This led to very, very cool player-driven plots that shaped the social aspect of the game. Near the end of when I stopped playing my guild had declared war against the capital city and its rulers. (we were all banned by the GM from entering the city, and had to sneak in "disguised"). Another player-guild of some knightly order or another did battle with us one multiple occasions. Eventually I and some of my top guild members were caught by the GMs (controlling the various NPC factions) after a massive battle against the cities army.

We ended up on trial, in the keep inside the city. Totally unbeknownst to me and my friends, on the day of the trial another evil guild and the remainder of my guild showed up to free us. Another massive battle ensued and we escaped.

I remember it began a few days before when I was in the forest outside of the city at a popular social gathering spot, arguing in-character with some goodies, when a military patrol from the city showed up and demanded my surrender. Being me, of course, I refused and slaugtered the patrol. Unfortunately this just caused an entire regiment of solders to come charging out of the city gates, and it began a server-wide chase as I fought the gaurds in nearly every zone across the map, solo, with no aid (none of my guildmates were on at the time). Eventually I was captured when a high-level NPC general arrived.

Unfortunately I don't have any stories nearly that epic to tell about from my time playing WoW, and I have played since launch. And my NWN story is just one of many, and I was from from the only player with their own personal epic player/GM driven quest running.

I like WoW, its a fun dungeon romp. I like getting new gear and leveling. I like not being griefed (PVE server). But I hate how static the world is. Theres no ROLE-PLAYING, and theres little point to trying. Without the ability to actually physically affect the world or significantly change the social interaction between factions you just don't feel like its a living/breathing world.

Unfortunatley, the NWN server admin and several GMs began to become total dicks over time. They began to favor certain individuals and outright ignore anyone else. One GM tried to stick with my guild and advance the storyline, but eventually he told me the main admin had said he wasn't to help us anymore. The final straw was when a friend of a GM was stealing shit from our group and repeatedly stalking and killing us (griefing beyond a doubt because this went on for WEEKS). We finally caught the person and dealt them justice at the end of a pointy object, and ended up banned because of it. Our guild quit the game, and another guild followed suit. Soon after it was a ghost-town.
 
Okay two days of herdering (the goat that killed me five minutes in my first adventure) while playing MvC3.

My bard now has 100 strength, 38 dex and 39 intelligence.
Time for some action me thinks.
What should I be doing next?
Any help is more than welcome.
 

SamVT

Member
My best memory was probably when Trinsic was under attack from the Undead. Calls were put out throughout Britannia by Heralds and warrios, mages and everything in between made their way to the far southern city... which in my case took me about 8 hours in real time to walk from Minoc in the North all the way down south. I'd never ventured that far.

I wasn't a very good warrior (yet) with 90 in swords, 80 in tactics but not really any idea how to fight undead. I still made my way down there.

The city was under attack, but right now it was calm. The gate to the city was lined by players guarding against the uncoming onslaught of undead, they were discussing tactics, battle plans and the like. I walked up to the person who seemed to be in charge, since far more experienced players were taking orders from him and his entourage and introduced myself.

"Hail mylord!" I shouted. "Can I be of assistance?".

He teamed me up with another player who I'd never met before (but he had a dog!) and told us to patrol the main road leading out of the city and sound the alarm at the first sign of undeads. Normally, zombies and the like would attack before the big attack happend, giving players at least a couple of minutes to execute their tactics.

My companion and I had been patrolling the forests around the city for a couple of hours, meeting other warriors along the way and giving them directions to Trinsic. I heard stories of how the previous nights had seen massive attacks from all directions. The undead were looking to overtake the city once and for all.

Then the attacks came, at first we were succesful at driving the evil forces out, but as each wave of attackers became more and more intense, more of us would die in battle. As more fallen comrades littered the streets and squares and roofs of the city, the undead got the upper hand. And then they all dissapeared only for them to reappear the following day, with slightly different tactics. It was epic, chaos and yet extremely exciting to be a part of.

But then, on Saturday night - the city fell to the unbeatable forces of the undead. The guards had been defeated, and Trinsic was lost forever as a main player hub in the south of the land.

http://forums.uosecondage.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3436&p=26830&hilit=trinsic+undead+invasion

http://uo.stratics.com/uoherald/archive/archive.php?archiveId=63
 

Darkmakaimura

Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
Currently, I only have access to the Internet on a very low end netbook. I'm actually considering going back into UO using the "classic client". Kind of surprised they are still charging a monthly fee when so many MMOGs are free-to-play now, especially since UO is one of the most outdated.
 

Chemo

Member
Darkmakaimura said:
Currently, I only have access to the Internet on a very low end netbook. I'm actually considering going back into UO using the "classic client". Kind of surprised they are still charging a monthly fee when so many MMOGs are free-to-play now, especially since UO is one of the most outdated.
New UO isn't fun anyway. The free servers are where it's at.

I'm still playing off and on via UO Second Age.
 

web01

Member
SamVT said:
My best memory was probably when Trinsic was under attack from the Undead. Calls were put out throughout Britannia by Heralds and warrios, mages and everything in between made their way to the far southern city... which in my case took me about 8 hours in real time to walk from Minoc in the North all the way down south. I'd never ventured that far.

I wasn't a very good warrior (yet) with 90 in swords, 80 in tactics but not really any idea how to fight undead. I still made my way down there.

The city was under attack, but right now it was calm. The gate to the city was lined by players guarding against the uncoming onslaught of undead, they were discussing tactics, battle plans and the like. I walked up to the person who seemed to be in charge, since far more experienced players were taking orders from him and his entourage and introduced myself.

"Hail mylord!" I shouted. "Can I be of assistance?".

He teamed me up with another player who I'd never met before (but he had a dog!) and told us to patrol the main road leading out of the city and sound the alarm at the first sign of undeads. Normally, zombies and the like would attack before the big attack happend, giving players at least a couple of minutes to execute their tactics.

My companion and I had been patrolling the forests around the city for a couple of hours, meeting other warriors along the way and giving them directions to Trinsic. I heard stories of how the previous nights had seen massive attacks from all directions. The undead were looking to overtake the city once and for all.

Then the attacks came, at first we were succesful at driving the evil forces out, but as each wave of attackers became more and more intense, more of us would die in battle. As more fallen comrades littered the streets and squares and roofs of the city, the undead got the upper hand. And then they all dissapeared only for them to reappear the following day, with slightly different tactics. It was epic, chaos and yet extremely exciting to be a part of.

But then, on Saturday night - the city fell to the unbeatable forces of the undead. The guards had been defeated, and Trinsic was lost forever as a main player hub in the south of the land.

http://forums.uosecondage.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3436&p=26830&hilit=trinsic+undead+invasion

http://uo.stratics.com/uoherald/archive/archive.php?archiveId=63

Shit like this is awesome.
 
D

Deleted member 10571

Unconfirmed Member
So have all those "damn some dev should have made.." guys actually tried another MMO?

Like, Mortal Online or EVE for the FFA PK real trading semi-realism guys?
Or Fallen Earth, for those searching for something in between WoW and UO? It's even F2P these days, and on steam.
 
Fall of Trinsic story

Ha, I remember that night.

I also seem to remember a night when Britain was attacked by Ratmen and the like, which was then followed by dragons and finished up with a Daemon. Unfortunately, I don't remember the details of the battle (like the "why" or "when") because it was a long time ago but yeah.. needless to say, Ultima Online was one of a kind.

Edit: Actually, now that I think about it, I think these battles were just before Renaissance. The attacks were used as an excuse to make the peaceful Trammel and Felucca was left as old-school no man's land. I think. This was... 12 years ago after all. Rusty memory.
 

Svafnir

Member
I played this on a private server a couple years back Similair to the op it was actually a lot of fun even though I had no idea what I was doing. It had so much stuff that even a lot modern day mmo's don't have.

Hmm... If they added player housing to wow I might go back.
 

Raide

Member
So many cool things in UO (Besides the brutal PvP system) that most MMO's ignore now.

Playing housing was damn awesome. Some of the inventive ways people used items to create décor was cool. Add to that the guild housing system as well.

The skill gaining system was brilliant. Knowing you could spec one way and then totally change your build was great.

Crafting was also a massive part of UO and it had a huge amount of depth. Weapons of various types, chairs and tables, all manner of odd items.

The economy was amazingly well built. Seeing all those vendors lined up, all the blacksmiths by the forges and also having vendors sitting outside your house to sell stuff to wandering people.
 

SparkTR

Member
So have all those "damn some dev should have made.." guys actually tried another MMO?

Like, Mortal Online or EVE for the FFA PK real trading semi-realism guys?
Or Fallen Earth, for those searching for something in between WoW and UO? It's even F2P these days, and on steam.

Has Mortal online improved into something worth spending time with? I remember they suckered in people with the idea that it'll be the modern equivalent of Ultima Online, but once the beta hit it became apparent that it was nothing more than a pile of crap, a sentiment that carried into the first release which is where I gave up.
 
D

Deleted member 10571

Unconfirmed Member
Has Mortal online improved into something worth spending time with? I remember they suckered in people with the idea that it'll be the modern equivalent of Ultima Online, but once the beta hit it became apparent that it was nothing more than a pile of crap, a sentiment that carried into the first release which is where I gave up.

They've worked on it a lot, but it's still the same game - so you won't probably end up being happy with it today, too :)
 
no offense...
but no other mmo has ever reached, so far, the depth of that game..
and by depth i don't mean the zomgpveaspect..
that ain't rpg, that's just "combat"..
rpg is being free to be whatever you want, be it in rpg-esque form or not..
you could be a bastard pk-er, you could be a marchant, a miner, a pve-er a pvp-er a frigging rpg-er, anything...
and you could amount to something..
house, guild sites, city, ships...
alchemy with +skill items, and whatnot..
customizing your house like a bawss, herding plenty animals, being a frigging bard!

there was no end..
no offense wow-boys or current mmo-er, but most likely those that don't agree with the op, either are yoo young/have missed out ultima OR they just can't get anything from a game beyond "zomg purple looot loot! ah new raid! farm farm!"..
that's plenty to do in a mmo beyond loot and farm, and ultima can teach you that much easily even now, if you can look beyond its dated graphic...
 

zugzug

Member
I completely agree with you that modern MMO games need to bring risk back.


This......its more than that they simply need to do a real hardcore server so all the people can gather there and be badasses to each other.

I don't get it everyone champions Nightmare mode in raids, Heroics in raids as the benchmark of a good raider. They champion Nightmare mode in Diablo like you aren't a real gamer if you can't play these modes with 2 small toes.

Yet every single stupid game designer and programmer smash every type of game player on the same single ruleset servers.

Don't give us an unsupported Siege Perilous server and expect us to be happy actually support different game styles.

Placing every single type of MMO player on the same server is a fucking joke and you are a bad game designer, game producer, Head Person in charge of MMO who does this. You are bad.

Do not bring up the difference betweeen PVE and PvP servers. Placing instant spawning level 85 guards in your hometown is not what a PvP server needs. Placing instand level 50 champion mobs to guard lvl 20 towns is not what a PvP server needs.

Get it thru your stupid game designing head that hardmode should be fucking hard mode.


Same thing with levelling to max level within a month server. Give us servers that are 10x and 50x experience required servers to level up on. Iron man settings for fucks sake You die once or you die twice your character is automatically deleted.


How hard would it be to actually start a character with an Iron Mode setting and have the game automatically delete your character when you die its just a check mark box that you agree to so you know the risks involved. God make MMOs have actual risk and difficulty again.
 

Wthermans

Banned
Used to play with a small group of guys when I worked at Sears. We would go around just randomly chatting with people as a group. Then we'd get to the "so where are you from" question. If anyone ever said Michigan, we ganged up on them and stole all their shit. It was stupid, but fun.

DAoC is probably my favorite MMO though. At least before Trials of Atlantis ruined their progression system. DAoC post-Foundations, pre-TOA was awesome.
 
fethers.jpg
 

Hex

Banned
I loved Ultima Online, but you did not even play on a real server so your opinion is not only wrong it is complete shit.
It was a great game, and it was a great age before the time of dumbing down came.
Everquest was also a great game, as was Star Wars Galaxies before it got dumbed down.
Saying it was the only game worth playing is idiocy.
Even now there are great mmos out there that people do themselves a disservice by not trying.
 
I remember people in my projects got into some serious beef with one of their homies in the Bronx, lol. Dudes were lvl'ing up, and all of sudden, BAM! Run yo shit! LMAO! Good times. When I got into Ultima, is when they killed lord British, memories.....
 

Pyccko

Member
Oo ooO ooOo OooOo OooOOoOo oOO oo.
*cough* ahem
UO has many great memories for me.

12+ years later, I still remember so much. I still remember my dumb guild ([IMA] with cute/stupid things following as titles) and our dumb color coded uniforms. I remember my sweet sandstone like 4 screens away from the Minoc portal.
I remember crashing a wedding happening in that big church in Nujel'm. I remember taming my first mare. I think my best memories of an MMO are probably from UO.

I miss those times, truth be told. I wonder what my old guildmates are up to nowadays...
 
OP: Have you played EVE Online? Lots of risk in that.

Very little games have such a risk nowadays (except for EVE online maybe, but it is quite boring)

I hear this a lot and I can really only agree if you stay in high-sec and specialize in one profession, which a lot of newcomers do. (And then end up quitting because they didn't bother exploring other elements of the game.) Whether you're missioning or mining, you will get bored if you don't diversify your activities and set your own goals. As a solo game, EVE can become really boring, but if you're in a large and active alliance, the game can provide some of the greatest multiplayer experiences you'll ever have.

For any newcomers to EVE: I highly recommend looking into joining a major nullsec alliance. Before doing this, however, you should Google the alliance and read the rules they have in place for new recruits. Oftentimes you'll need to be a legitimate member of that alliance's community before even thinking about applying to their alliance. (Basically, don't join the community just to join their alliance, otherwise you will be scammed and rejected.)

CCP released a new trailer that gives a nice overview of what the game has to offer.

EDIT: Oh good god, I just noticed how old this thread is.

I'm thinking about making an EVE Online + Dust 514 |OT| sometime this summer. It won't be designed with the intention of making a NeoGAF corp or alliance, however. I'd much rather be able to point people in the right direction as far as having fun in the game goes.
 

bitoriginal

Member
UO gush incoming...

Nothing will ever match the unparelleled freedom UO allowed you in a truly virtual world. The depth and complexity of the game is still mind boggling. Every item could be crafted from the base materials, or had to be hunted down in the world from dungeons. The game was actually based around genuine character classes, in that if you wanted decent armour and weapons, you had to go to the bank and hunt down a blacksmith. If you wanted potions, you'd need to find an alchemist. If you wanted a rare animal, go find a tamer. I remember riding an Ostrich for the first time wondering what the hell it was. You actually had to go the bank and communicate with other players.

The world also had a functioning self sustaining economy. If you wanted to sell something quickly, you'd have to travel to Brit Bank and spam your message to find interested customers. And player housing is something I've pretty much never seen since in a game. When you finally managed to get enough gold to buy a house, you could either spend weeks searching for a decent spot to place, or buy an expensive one in a decent location. You then spent months collecting items from all over the world to decorate the place. You needed other players to actually progress in the game, which fostered a sense of community.

On the other side of this, the PVP was amazing, especially if you were a mage. 64 unique spells, which were designed for combos based on timing and skill. Mage duels were always epic. Everything in the game was risk vs reward, in that you lost everything, including your armour and weapons when you died or were killed. You didn't even need to get into a fight to lose shit, because there were always theives around.

Essentially it felt like a genuine world, everything was spontaneous, and there was none of this instanced bullshit. Some of the PVP battles I played in were so epic, and could involve over 100 people for hours. God I miss this game lol.
 

Jhriad

Member
∀ Narayan;35112128 said:
I hear this a lot and I can really only agree if you stay in high-sec and specialize in one profession, which a lot of newcomers do. (And then end up quitting the game, because they didn't bother exploring other elements of the game.) Whether you're missioning or mining, you will get bored if you don't diversify your activities and set your own goals. As a solo game, EVE can become really boring, but if you're in a large and active alliance, the game can provide some of the greatest multiplayer experiences you'll ever have.

For any newcomers to EVE: I highly recommend looking into joining a major nullsec alliance. Before doing this, however, you should Google the alliance and read the rules they have in place for new recruits. Oftentimes you'll need to be a legitimate member of that alliance's community before even thinking about applying to their alliance. (Basically, don't join the community just to join their alliance, otherwise you will be scammed and rejected.)

CCP recently released a new trailer that gives a nice overview of what the game has to offer.

I played EVE for years and spent 98% of my time in 0.0. It was still ungodly boring and a giant grind most of the time.
 
I almost feel contractually obliged to post in this thread because of my username. Love the single player Ultimas but I never played UO.
 

Cipherr

Member
Ever been reading a thread, then saw a post you wanted to respond to? Scrolled down a bit though first, and saw that you already responded to that post? Then realized this was necro bumped from a year (or more) prior?

vYpB1.gif
 
So many great memories of UO. I was a "good" player, never PK'ed, so I just hated them back in the days. It's funny now to think how much stress I had to endure when I went hunting with my best armor, horse, mace of vanquishing and bag full of expensive reagents.

I played UO since very early and I remember travelling to a dungeon with 2 friends, but one of them couldn't cast "Recall" yet. After hours of hunting, when we were about to head back to town, someone come inside the dungeon screaming "PK!!". I drop a rune, first friend cast recall, I say goodbye to my other friend who couldn't cast it and wish him good luck. "Corp Por" already appearing at the screen. After like one hour, my friend appears as a ghost near our humble house, asking for a res. What a game.

BTW, if any of you played on Chesapeake with a character named Mother Theresa: I still hate you.
 

NervousXtian

Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
UO is the only MMO that I was ever truly into and the sole reason I can't enjoy any other MMO's.

Shit was fantastic. So much risk/reward, and so many people who truly role-played.

Also, we were such fuckers in our guild.. we role-played robberies.. your money or your life.. if you paid.. we didn't kill you.. if you didn't... dead. We'd send out one guy, and the rest stayed back until shit got real.

So much fun.
 
Oh boy... I remember playing this just a few days after launch, I was salivating for this game the idea of more than 4 players at once... not to mention I was a HUGE Ultima nerd. Years before Hi Speed was even close to my area I got ISDN hooked up for this game.

I remember just figuring out how to play the game, I made my way out of Britain and was trying to find my way to Minoc. Along the road a met a fellow newbie and we decided to go to Minoc together. We walked along the road talking about how amazing this game was and other Ultima things... not to mention how lost we were. We came to a bridge/guardhouse type building, and some player was hanging around. We said "Hi! Do you know how to get to Minoc?". After a moment of silence, his response was "Do you want to die?". Well, we weren't quite sure what he was on about so said "Ummm.. no...", to which his reply was "Too bad... for you.". Then he started shooting fire at us. Well me and my new friend ran like crazy trying to get away from this guy!

We finally did manage to make our escape after losing him in the forest, say what you will about PK and Risk vs Reward, but all these years later I remember that event very clearly.

I finally did make it all the way to Minoc and the famed "Happy Hunting Grounds", only to find it was routinely camped by PK's. Yeah FUCK YOU Dread Lord Peachy! That's the other thing I clearly remember from this game hah hah!
 

Meicyn

Gold Member
Most people tried to play this game like a knight or a wizard or whatever. UO was fun to play as a thief. Nothing beat getting close to an opponent who relied on magic to fight, stealing their reagents which basically prevented them from being able to cast any spells. Most people like to be organized and put all their reagents into a pouch. Big mistake. I would always immediately steal any pouch I could find anytime I gained access to an opponent's inventory. It didn't always go as planned and sometimes I'd grab the wrong bag and end up losing the fight, but I never carried more than ten of any reagent and never carried anything of value with me for long, so looting my corpse would yield little to nothing (unless I had recently killed someone else). Maximize my gains and minimize my losses was the name of the game.

Satisfaction was casting In Nox (Poison) on an opponent, using their own nightshade against them. You could feel the terror felt by your opponent through your dial-up connection as they'd attempt to flee.

Edit: Also, this is important:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuxFp6Eibyk
 
I played UO, I had a guild and a few friends. I was wearing some nice new gear and showing off to my friends when they decided to kill me and take all my stuff. I quit right after.

of course these threads are always so terrible anyways. You've got too many people constantly gushing about how superior they are because they played the old "better" MMOs and how amazing things were back in the day.
 

Clydefrog

Member
Oh boy... I remember playing this just a few days after launch, I was salivating for this game the idea of more than 4 players at once... not to mention I was a HUGE Ultima nerd. Years before Hi Speed was even close to my area I got ISDN hooked up for this game.

I remember just figuring out how to play the game, I made my way out of Britain and was trying to find my way to Minoc. Along the road a met a fellow newbie and we decided to go to Minoc together. We walked along the road talking about how amazing this game was and other Ultima things... not to mention how lost we were. We came to a bridge/guardhouse type building, and some player was hanging around. We said "Hi! Do you know how to get to Minoc?". After a moment of silence, his response was "Do you want to die?". Well, we weren't quite sure what he was on about so said "Ummm.. no...", to which his reply was "Too bad... for you.". Then he started shooting fire at us. Well me and my new friend ran like crazy trying to get away from this guy!

We finally did manage to make our escape after losing him in the forest, say what you will about PK and Risk vs Reward, but all these years later I remember that event very clearly.

I finally did make it all the way to Minoc and the famed "Happy Hunting Grounds", only to find it was routinely camped by PK's. Yeah FUCK YOU Dread Lord Peachy! That's the other thing I clearly remember from this game hah hah!

damn, some of those chases through the forest were intense. there were those certain trees that you'd run into and get stuck for a second if you weren't paying attention... which would be just enough time for the chaser to catch up with you.

if you're were a mage, casting invis would sometimes work wonders in a chase. or if you've worked up your hiding skill (waste of points!) you could do that as well.
 

Anoregon

The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
Big ups to Asheron's Call. I still resubscribe for a month or two at a time about once a year to check out what's been added/changed. This month they have one of their biggest mechanic-changing updates ever, totally updating melee combat and (after like 12 years) adding Dual Wield.
 

spirity

Member
So, I wanted to try out an MMO way back then and it was either UO or EQ. It turned out to be EQ because there was a free demo of it on a gaming mags cover disk. I don't regret my decision, because EQ turned out to be the best MMO - and for that matter, game - I've ever played (and I've played a lot). But I do get a little envious when I hear of the features UO had. I liked the difficulty of MMO's during that time period, and I think I would have really enjoyed UO.
 
Sounds like you have shitty friends.

And in terms of being Massively Multiplayer, UO and similar games like Eve ARE better. They aren't heavily-instanced dungeon crawls. Some of those might be better games based on opinion, but they are barely MMOs by the original definition.

Except they aren't. It's no fun being just mindlessly PKing or losing everything.
 
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