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Winter 2012 Anime Thread 2.22: You Can (Not) Outpost Cajunator
- Thread starter Haly
- Start date
- Status
darkside31337
Tomodachi wa Mahou
I'm glad you feel the same way about your SAC opinions as I do.
Good thing they aren't on this page. They're great opinions, I believe.
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Inu x Boku 05:
No more pic spamming. I just had to do it for one episode 'cause it was just so hnnnnnnng. So we meet a... rather odd new character.
No more pic spamming. I just had to do it for one episode 'cause it was just so hnnnnnnng. So we meet a... rather odd new character.
Seriously he classifies everything as S or M, including inanimate objects. Flamboyant doesn't do it justice. Well he put Karuta in a hnnngtastic maid outfit so I forgive. But Soushi obviously hid the fact that he's Ririchiyo's fiancee for a reason, so it'll be interesting to see where it goes.
hosannainexcelsis
Member
Between his thoughts on SAC and his thoughts on Miyazaki, I'm starting to think that pizzaroll calling something boring is as much a seal of quality as cosmicblizzard calling something boring!
Or in less inflammatory terms: I'm realizing just how much pizzaroll's subjective experiences when watching anime differ from my own.
hosannainexcelsis
Member
It would be a boring world if we all shared the same opinions.
I certainly wasn't implying you two had similar tastes!
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Inu x Boku 06:
Public service announcement: RurouniZel could not be here to post his thoughts on Inu x Boku 06, as he's been rushed to the hospital after fainting and uttering something resembling "yuuuuuuuuuuuriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiihnnnnnng". He shall return to AnimeGAF as soon as he's recovered. We thank you for your patience.
- Not RurouniZel
Public service announcement: RurouniZel could not be here to post his thoughts on Inu x Boku 06, as he's been rushed to the hospital after fainting and uttering something resembling "yuuuuuuuuuuuriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiihnnnnnng". He shall return to AnimeGAF as soon as he's recovered. We thank you for your patience.
- Not RurouniZel
I really need to catch up on this now!
hosannainexcelsis
Member
Vampire Princess Miyu TV 8
If you're not going to put any effort into accurately portraying musical performance, why even bother to show the keyboard? It's very distracting to see the pianist playing a third but hear the pianist play a slow broken chord.
And just look at that poor technique! I cringe to look at that painfully awkward hand position.
This episode was an affront to pianists and piano lovers everywhere, especially
If you're not going to put any effort into accurately portraying musical performance, why even bother to show the keyboard? It's very distracting to see the pianist playing a third but hear the pianist play a slow broken chord.
And just look at that poor technique! I cringe to look at that painfully awkward hand position.
This episode was an affront to pianists and piano lovers everywhere, especially
burning the grotesque piano monster at the end.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
Maybe it would have been more tolerable with high school girls drinking tea?
Vampire Princess Miyu TV 8
And just look at that poor technique! I cringe to look at that painfully awkward hand position.
This episode was an affront to pianists and piano lovers everywhere, especiallyburning the grotesque piano monster at the end.
There is way too much wrong in that pic. the angle of the hands, the angle of the keyboard, the posture....
Best stupid ecchi show in years.
I'd have to disagree, DxD isn't that good of a stupid ecchi show
apart from the ED
If you'd like, I can make a list of ones that are better. :3
Go ahead, I'm all ears.
Sekirei
Sora No Otoshimono
Highschool of the Dead
Lotte
loli ecchi is ecchi too
Motto To Love Ru, the first season got butchered though
all these are from the past few years, and better than DxD
Dedication Through Light
Member
Reborn 186- 188
That was an intense and good filler arc. Still can never tell if Mukuro likes Chrome. Daemon and Mukuro on screen at the same time was cool, their laughs.
That was an intense and good filler arc. Still can never tell if Mukuro likes Chrome. Daemon and Mukuro on screen at the same time was cool, their laughs.
hosannainexcelsis
Member
I can't comment further without watching Oshii's GitS movies and rewatching SAC - which might change my mind, who knows - but the show didn't feel that way at all to me.
At least KyoAni recognizes that they're too lazy to put effort into a proper depiction of piano playing and so they don't even try.
Thanks. I kinda agree on HSotD, but don't really consider it an ecchi show - just action with an unusual amount of fanservice. Lotte and Strike Witches aren't my cup of tea, and Sekirei is just plain boring. Haven't seen Sora No Otoshimono, but it doesn't really look very interesting. It's a matter of taste I guess.
Well, I don't think these kinds of shows are really worth arguing about, so enjoy~
I think I need to watch Inu x Boku SS now, as terrible as it sounds from the premise.
Smile is a carbon copy of Suite as far as the monsters go, it's pretty disappointing in this regard. Unlike Heartcatch, Suite and Smile seem to pretty much be "villain makes monster from everyday object, Cures defeat monster by kicking the shit out of it + plastic toy finisher" formula. They didn't even bother to change the
that the villains usually
Smile Precure 2
Cure Sunny >>>>> Cure Happy.
I like the little self-aware moments that pop up every now and then. The monsters aren't as good as the ones from HeartCatch either.So much pure friendship as well~
Smile is a carbon copy of Suite as far as the monsters go, it's pretty disappointing in this regard. Unlike Heartcatch, Suite and Smile seem to pretty much be "villain makes monster from everyday object, Cures defeat monster by kicking the shit out of it + plastic toy finisher" formula. They didn't even bother to change the
evil force
inflict on the townsfolk before summoning a monster. Bad End is exactly the same as the Melody of Sorrow from Suite.
Jex
Member
If you'd just left the spoiler'd part out that would be a perfect post.
The premise for Inu X Boku is rather boring, but it really is a hnnnnnghtastic show.
Yeah, using
people's feelings and emotions for the monsters in Heartcatch seems really simple, but it certainly added a layer of depth that's just missing in Smile.
hosannainexcelsis
Member
It's a dull, poorly directed show with slowass, one-chapter-per-episode pacing and nothing appealing beyond the heroine and the character designs.
Fresh was overall a pretty bad show, but it had a few relatively interesting, even if a little bit dumb, ideas for the conflict of the week storylines. Like that one time in which they made all the parents in the city disappear in order to harvest the sadness of the now lonely little kids.
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
PdotMichael
Banned
A new K-On! season?
Razgriz-Specter
Member
You should get on that.
New key-art for KyoAni's Hyoka:
Ritsu's little bro is getting the protagonism he deserves.
It's an Apple.
Why clockwise? lol.
Jex
Member
Well, I don't know if Stand Alone Complex, in either the first or second season, has a "cohesive" story.
I know you know this but, just to clarify, SAC has a somewhat awkward series structure. The show is broken down into 'story arc' episodes and 'single story' episodes. The story-arc episodes form a continuous story which can certainly be criticized as a whole. The episodic episodes tell one-off stories, usually distinct from the main story-arc, and therefore they really need to be tackled individually when you're criticising the shows 'story'.
Presumably this bizarre mix of an 'episodic' series and a 'continuous story' series was designed so that casual viewers wouldn't be put off by not being 'up to date'. Other shows, such as Patlabor and Cowboy Bebop use the same technique, but in both those cases their main story is not as complex or involved as SAC's.
I do think you may have completely missed the point with regards to this, although it has been a few years since I finished the show.
In the world of SAC those references to The Catcher In The Rye aren't there to discuss the book, nor does the show have a particular obsession what that material. Indeed, it doesn't event care about the particular themes present in that text. Which is exactly why the show is not trying to be edgy or cool - it's not using the references to Catcher as a badge, they're incorporated into the story for other purposes entirely.
In actuality any book or text could have been the referenced of the first season's story - that's actually a key part of that 'boring plot'. This is because
the Laughing Man himself isn't the one spreading all those signs, quotes, and symbols. It's the work of various organisations who attempting to profit by using his symbol as a cover.
This statement is a bit too general and sweeping to be fair to the show. As I've stated above, the show has 'story' episodes and 'one-off' episodes, providing a mix of 'stories'. Some of them are certainly centred in various military, police or other offices of state, but sometimes it's about completely other things as well. There's quite a variety, and it does your argument no good to ignore these. Of course, they can be criticised from a different angle, for being too 'police procedural' - but of course that's a completely different argument.
Now, the show is certainly filled with politics and technology - as one might expect from a cyberpunk story. Whether or not they are boring is certainly left to the viewer, but to call some of these discussions 'senseless technobabble' is wrong.
Technobable is generally where a character sprouts some gibberish in an attempt to explain some plot point, plot hole or plot device. Within the Stand Alone Complex universe most of the technology discussed is completely relevant and understandable. For example, cyberbrains, prosthetic bodies, think tanks, artificial intelligence and micro machines all play a clear and important role in the shows plot and in the world that the show takes place in. These items of technology are also used to explore some idea about how a world might work where such technology is commonplace. The first season is quite keen to point the dangers of a world where you literally can't trust your eyes.
Now, you could (and perhaps should) criticize the show for not taking the time to explore some of these ideas on a more fundamental level because most of the time the show is moving too fast to reflect on the very ideas that it raises. Apart from the whole artificial intelligence thing, I suppose. They easily spend the more time discussing that idea than anything else.
Penguin Musume 1-3
http://i.imgur.com/lFv01.jpg mildly nsfw
well this seems like the best anime ever but seriously, it's a lot of fun, I think I'm gonna enjoy this
http://i.imgur.com/lFv01.jpg mildly nsfw
well this seems like the best anime ever
but seriously, it's a lot of fun, I think I'm gonna enjoy thisI'm not sure that "casual viewers" really fits with GITS SAC. The series originally aired on pay-per-view TV; it wasn't something you could just dip in and out of when you felt like it, you had to actively choose to watch an episode. Why would you just buy, say, episode 8 of a series if you have to pay anyway - why not watch from the beginning?
hosannainexcelsis
Member
I have an Oshii watch on deck after I finish my Takahata watch
and a Yuasa watch
About the SAC criticisms, suffice it to say that I largely agree with Jexhius's detailed post. In the 2 TV seasons (Solid State Society is a different matter), I didn't feel like the show got bogged down in stale technobabble or political jargon - I was invested in the issues that were being dealt with and there were plenty of action scenes and tense moments to keep me engaged.
Yeah, I actually quite enjoy Kenji Kamiyama's tendency to create lengthy scenes chalked full of dialogue. They can still be impactful without just being ham fisted with a particular motif or boorish with technobabble to sound cool or any number of things that normally result from a lot of dialogue.
Jex
Member
Clearly you need to open your heart. One day jman2050, one day you will like K-On. You need to let go your hate.
darkside31337
Tomodachi wa Mahou
Wait you mean his avatar isn't from K-On? I thought thats where it was from
Wait you mean his avatar isn't from K-On? I thought thats where it was from
Daily Lives of Moe Boys
Hellsing321
Member
If K-On had guys as regulars riots would happen.
Well, every "stand alone" episode of the show is of significantly lower quality than episodes within the main arc (which are already of questionable quality) so I feel it wasn't necessary to tackle them.
I don't think you realize how many references to the book there are in the show. For example, the "fuck you" written on the wall in the library towards the end. Just ugh. Normally these sort of references should tickle viewers who understand them, but when they are handled in such a clumsy and juvenile way they come off as rather obnoxious and offensive. It's like a meathead who watches Fight Club and spouts off about how manly it is and quotes it without realizing the movie is making fun of him.
How am I ignoring those episodes? They all play out the same, the story is told in the same manner. A briefing/meeting that tells the viewer what's going on -> stuff related to this briefing/meeting happens -> a character recounts what happened and gives the viewer history related to what happened -> the end.
Thank you for using these exact words.
How SAC shows the viewer that the characters are in a world where you literally can't trust your eyes:
A character either spends several minutes explaining the technology and how thing X works or a quirk with the technology (because this is a cyberpunk series so random pieces of technology needs flaws even if they make no sense), and then a scene related briefly happens even though it seems like a standard scene and you probably wouldn't realize what it was demonstrating if a character didn't tell you, or, the same thing except the explanation comes after the events.
How Oshii shows the viewer that the characters are in a world where you literally can't trust your eyes (or even use them at all...):
Ghost in the Shell example
Innocence example
I remember when I called Nichijou bombing because of the dudes. (Man I wish it had been just cute girls doing cute shit.)
Lagrange 6
What a terrible episode.
I'll get the good stuff out of the way first - the animation is still great, and the show is still beautiful.
was funny, Vilaguiagilagi is a pretty boss character.
Now for the bad. Muginami is a terrible character who
Oh, and maru is getting a bit annoying at this point, wan's still cute though.
I realize this is all a bit rambling, but you should still try to read it.
What a terrible episode.
I'll get the good stuff out of the way first - the animation is still great, and the show is still beautiful.
Harem night
Now for the bad. Muginami is a terrible character who
clearly is mentally deficient, her "brother" abuses her, yet she still wants to get back to him. This is not sending a good message to abused people.
Madoka is also a terrible character, the sudden tone shift of the past 2 episodes does not fit the generic genki girl type at all. In particular, the flaws I addressed last week are still present, and even more so than before. Madoka has ZERO reason to get revenge for Muginami, and Lan has actual reason to fight Muginami, they're at war after all.
Back to Madoka: let's assess what has happened between her and Muginami. Apart from the brief scene in the first episode, the first real interaction occurred when Muginami helped rescue Lan from drowning. After that, she (presumably) participated in Jersey Club activities, and generally NTR'd Lan. Then, we have the showdown and reveal with Village-kun in the restaurant. We discover that A. Muginami has never considered Madoka a friend, and is actually planning to fight/and or go to war with Madoka/the planet as a whole, B. She's already at war with Lan's planet, C. that she has conspired/is conspiring with Vilagiluolo for general purposes of nefariousness. Viguilo reveals that Muginami is no longer welcome. Alright, so Madoka is being betrayed and used on all fronts by Muginami, who considers herself an ally of Madoka's supposed enemy, Vilujiajo. What kind of reaction does Madoka display? Fear? Anger at betrayal? Incomprehension at Muginami's sudden turn in character?
None of the above, we get one of the worst tropes in fiction, the standard, worn out, cliched, beaten-like-a-dead-horse, repulsive, insidious "HEY GUYS, EVEN IF WE ALL WANT TO KILL EACH OTHER, LET'S BE FRIEEEEEEEEEEEEEENDS". Alright, Madoka, you're clearly not right in the head, but what makes you take Muginami's side, when Village the Boss has ALSO provided reasons as to why Madoka shouldn't trust Muginami? We can ascertain that both Muginami and Vijuoio are villains, or at least villainous. You might think that since Madoka has spent time with Muginami, and considers her a friend, the reason for choosing Muginami's side is obvious, but remember that Muginami just revealed, entirely willfully, thus removing any doubts that she was coerced into doing so, that she
A. doesn't consider Madoka a friend, and
B. was just using Madoka for her own purposes.
Any rational, reasonable, intelligent person would be repulsed by someone who had just made such a revelation, and would arguably shun both Muginami and Viljario. Madoka, however, is a poor character trait, not even a character, and so we have to go back to pulling stale tropes out of the hat. As for Lan, she's not even a character trait at this point, just a moving speaker that says "Wan", so I would feel bad if I pointed out just why she should have no reason to associate with Muginami, and possible reasons to take Vilagiagiagio's side in the dispute. At this point, there's a lot missing from the back story of Lan, so I only list that as a potential.
After the Vox's take to the skies, the episode takes another turn for the worse. It must be going nearly vertical at this point. In all previous episodes, fighting even a single Ovid has been a huge challenge for our noble protagonists, and yet suddenly, they've turned to cannon fodder. Perhaps someday, we'll be able to have an anime where having more troops is actually an advantage. Lagrange does not fill me with hope for that eventuality, however.
And now, Butler-kun thinks it's a good idea to take matters into his own hands. Butler-kun still has potential, although I can already see most of the possible outcomes for his character, and very few of them will be encouraging.
A. he's clearly planning something behind everyone else's back. I give him bonus points for at least trying, but he still has a long way to go. From that point, it follows that
B. he is secretly a villain,
C. he just wants to protect his planet, but this requires becoming a villain or at least doing villainous acts,
D. something I haven't thought of yet. I'm really hoping for D, but I fear that C is the most likely. Eventually, a showdown will occur, where
E. we find out that he was actually good all along,
F. He isn't actually good all along, but Madoka cures him with the power of generic genkiness, thus saving the Galaxy from a man who was previously hellbent on destroying it until one highschool girl said something vaguely heroic,
G. He was not good all along, and dies/ is exiled/ defeated and incarcerated,
H. He is evil, and he succeeds in his nefarious strategems and villainous plots (as if that would ever happen),
I. G happens, but he is stopped by Lan/Mugi/Madoka sacrificing themselves for the good of the universe (what will happen if G actually occurs for sure),
J. continuation of D. (what I'm hoping for).
Anyway, he thinks it will be a good idea to let Muginami, an enemy soldier with the power to control a devastating weapon, go free because he felt sorry for her being put in her place by Viljiogiou. Considering butler-kun's character, he probably has more of an actual reason for releasing her, so this only had a mildly negative impact on the episode.
Now Muginami decides to go on a suicide rush or something, Vigilagio tries to kill her, but is stopped by Generic Genkiness, and so Muginamisuddenly realizes that she's being stupid and should stop trying to get back to Vilagio cries "onii-chan~~~~" and flings herself into his arms, and starts fighting Madoka. Madoka is still trying to figure out the basics of elementary rational thought, so she doesn't realize that she should stop considering Muginami a friend. Muginami restates that she doesn't like Madoka's genki irrationality, in the most rousing, truth-filled speech of the episode, and it Finally. Sinks. In. Madoka finally has the reaction she should have had last episode, and starts going beserk. Suddenly, THAT is activated, butler-kun goes crazy, and an EMP blast disguised as a shower of green flowers takes effect, dropping all the ovids and voxes into the sea.
Then comes the next episode preview: tentacles, high school hijinks, more misplaced friendship and genkiness. The perfect followup episode, without a doubt.
Madoka is also a terrible character, the sudden tone shift of the past 2 episodes does not fit the generic genki girl type at all. In particular, the flaws I addressed last week are still present, and even more so than before. Madoka has ZERO reason to get revenge for Muginami, and Lan has actual reason to fight Muginami, they're at war after all.
Back to Madoka: let's assess what has happened between her and Muginami. Apart from the brief scene in the first episode, the first real interaction occurred when Muginami helped rescue Lan from drowning. After that, she (presumably) participated in Jersey Club activities, and generally NTR'd Lan. Then, we have the showdown and reveal with Village-kun in the restaurant. We discover that A. Muginami has never considered Madoka a friend, and is actually planning to fight/and or go to war with Madoka/the planet as a whole, B. She's already at war with Lan's planet, C. that she has conspired/is conspiring with Vilagiluolo for general purposes of nefariousness. Viguilo reveals that Muginami is no longer welcome. Alright, so Madoka is being betrayed and used on all fronts by Muginami, who considers herself an ally of Madoka's supposed enemy, Vilujiajo. What kind of reaction does Madoka display? Fear? Anger at betrayal? Incomprehension at Muginami's sudden turn in character?
None of the above, we get one of the worst tropes in fiction, the standard, worn out, cliched, beaten-like-a-dead-horse, repulsive, insidious "HEY GUYS, EVEN IF WE ALL WANT TO KILL EACH OTHER, LET'S BE FRIEEEEEEEEEEEEEENDS". Alright, Madoka, you're clearly not right in the head, but what makes you take Muginami's side, when Village the Boss has ALSO provided reasons as to why Madoka shouldn't trust Muginami? We can ascertain that both Muginami and Vijuoio are villains, or at least villainous. You might think that since Madoka has spent time with Muginami, and considers her a friend, the reason for choosing Muginami's side is obvious, but remember that Muginami just revealed, entirely willfully, thus removing any doubts that she was coerced into doing so, that she
A. doesn't consider Madoka a friend, and
B. was just using Madoka for her own purposes.
Any rational, reasonable, intelligent person would be repulsed by someone who had just made such a revelation, and would arguably shun both Muginami and Viljario. Madoka, however, is a poor character trait, not even a character, and so we have to go back to pulling stale tropes out of the hat. As for Lan, she's not even a character trait at this point, just a moving speaker that says "Wan", so I would feel bad if I pointed out just why she should have no reason to associate with Muginami, and possible reasons to take Vilagiagiagio's side in the dispute. At this point, there's a lot missing from the back story of Lan, so I only list that as a potential.
After the Vox's take to the skies, the episode takes another turn for the worse. It must be going nearly vertical at this point. In all previous episodes, fighting even a single Ovid has been a huge challenge for our noble protagonists, and yet suddenly, they've turned to cannon fodder. Perhaps someday, we'll be able to have an anime where having more troops is actually an advantage. Lagrange does not fill me with hope for that eventuality, however.
And now, Butler-kun thinks it's a good idea to take matters into his own hands. Butler-kun still has potential, although I can already see most of the possible outcomes for his character, and very few of them will be encouraging.
A. he's clearly planning something behind everyone else's back. I give him bonus points for at least trying, but he still has a long way to go. From that point, it follows that
B. he is secretly a villain,
C. he just wants to protect his planet, but this requires becoming a villain or at least doing villainous acts,
D. something I haven't thought of yet. I'm really hoping for D, but I fear that C is the most likely. Eventually, a showdown will occur, where
E. we find out that he was actually good all along,
F. He isn't actually good all along, but Madoka cures him with the power of generic genkiness, thus saving the Galaxy from a man who was previously hellbent on destroying it until one highschool girl said something vaguely heroic,
G. He was not good all along, and dies/ is exiled/ defeated and incarcerated,
H. He is evil, and he succeeds in his nefarious strategems and villainous plots (as if that would ever happen),
I. G happens, but he is stopped by Lan/Mugi/Madoka sacrificing themselves for the good of the universe (what will happen if G actually occurs for sure),
J. continuation of D. (what I'm hoping for).
Anyway, he thinks it will be a good idea to let Muginami, an enemy soldier with the power to control a devastating weapon, go free because he felt sorry for her being put in her place by Viljiogiou. Considering butler-kun's character, he probably has more of an actual reason for releasing her, so this only had a mildly negative impact on the episode.
Now Muginami decides to go on a suicide rush or something, Vigilagio tries to kill her, but is stopped by Generic Genkiness, and so Muginami
Then comes the next episode preview: tentacles, high school hijinks, more misplaced friendship and genkiness. The perfect followup episode, without a doubt.
Oh, and maru is getting a bit annoying at this point, wan's still cute though.
I realize this is all a bit rambling, but you should still try to read it.
Ultimadrago
Member
I wish I was there for your prophecy...maybe then it wouldn't have hit me like a train...
If only they tripped over each other in bathing suits more...
I wish I was there for your prophecy...maybe then it wouldn't have hit me like a train...
If only they tripped over each other in bathing suits...
Needed more onsen action . . . Nano screw jokes . . . opportunities missed.
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