Don't forget about those two Link riding Epona statues (one Original, one Gold). How many meals did you have to skip for that ):
wow at this thread just wow
you guys were not trolled you were grossly violated
Oh God, did I really just lurk through all of that?
Anyhoo, the idea of Wii U being weaker than a 360 is even more stupid than Hyoyeon's stylist in SNSD. Hrmf.
Good points.
Seeing exactly what happened to Wii support partially because of a lack of power, it would be so surprising for Nintendo to go with considerably underpowered hardware again.
The wii was not exactly more powerful than the Xbox. It was better in some areas, yet weaker in others.
Especially when Iwata has spoken to the fact the hardware gulf was an issue that hurt the Wii long term.
Wii U basically has 2 possible paths. Pretty Similar to the current consoles and banking on their replacements being 2014 and not sooner. If they come sooner Nintendo gets screwed and would rightfully deserve it for being so shortsighted.
or
Wii U is the moderate Upgrade we mostly expect and its in position to be a factor in the next gen of consoles
The Wii is a weird one, as compared to last gen there's plenty of grunt under the hood, but not using traditional shaders holds it back, unlike the Xbox which was a mini-PC through and through.
For specifics, he stated the system features a tri-core out of order CPU, 1GB of 'pretty slow RAM', and a 'decently featured' GPU that 'lacks raw muscle'. He also stated it is 'good and efficient', and that when it ships performance will be 'give or take a little' in the ballpark of the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3.
He's not once said that the hardware is a blanket downgrade from the 360/PS3. He has not pointed to any specific piece of technology and said "this is worse than the 360". He has not discredited the possibility that some part of the Wii U is superior to current gen systems (if anything he endorsed this). What he said was that porting a 360/PS3 game directly to the Wii U would require scaling back the game due to hardware difficulties, and he gauges this as 'less powerful'.
Those expecting a bit of grunt under the hood should maybe take a step back though, because numerous reports have suggested otherwise. Not just Arkam, but basically everybody other than IGN. We'll see come launch.
What. Did. I. Miss?
My name is HylianTom. I produce 3D data and manipulate it for research purposes. I do this in conjunction with a major electronics company, a well-respected university, and a sizeable federal grant. The mods approved me a long time ago.
Everything up until The Boys.
Arkam's back (with a vengeance.)
I'm trying to find a recent quote from Iwata. I think it's from January where he says that the Wii U's graphics are in line with the 360 and PS3's.
I'm trying to find a recent quote from Iwata. I think it's from January where he says that the Wii U's graphics are in line with the 360 and PS3's.
I'm trying to find a recent quote from Iwata. I think it's from January where he says that the Wii U's graphics are in line with the 360 and PS3's.
I swear I remember reading about it.
Miyamoto said:Talking about the Wii U, it is going to be compatible with high-definition TV sets, which are now widespread and, with the graphics capabilities catching up to the general trend, some people consider it to be the "next-generation Wii." On the other hand, as far as graphics capabilities are concerned, there are already other hardware systems with similar functions. Therefore, we have designed the Wii U to be recognized as being different from any other hardware system.
Iwata said:As we will showcase the Wii U at E3 in June this year, the detailed announcements must wait until then, but we are aiming to make a system which shall not be forced into competing with the others where the contenders can fight only with massive developer resources and long development times as their weapons. Having said that, however, as I mentioned, it is true that, in some software areas, we need to be engaged in the power games. Take The Legend of Zelda franchise, for example, the fans must be looking for the graphic representations that they do not see as cheap at all when the title is released for the Wii U. When it is necessary, we do not hesitate to role out our resources
The Wii is a weird one, as compared to last gen there's plenty of grunt under the hood, but not using traditional shaders holds it back, unlike the Xbox which was a mini-PC through and through.
As for my own personal opinion on this matter, I don't distrust Arkam. I've had a few chats with him now and I have no reason to label him a fake or a troll. I also don't feel his posting history indicates malicious behaviour. He's been quite polite, and elaborated where necessary, especially when he first made statements about the Wii U floating around Xbox 360 power levels. His timeliness with replies is irrelevant given not everybody has the time to spend several hours a day on GAF bending over for a demanding community (his posting history suggests he is not a regular poster at all), and many of these demands seem to come from people frustrated with what he's saying and looking to take him down a peg. Scepticism is warranted, especially before he verified his employment, and though nobody has to believe him at all, the aggressive attacks and belittling is really quite inappropriate, and shows the insecurities of the people attacking moreso than any flaw in what Arkam is saying.
People need a little refresher on what, exactly, he has stated. He openly specified he does not know the final specs, and only the bits and pieces of a recent kit. He clarified, again openly and up front, that by 'less powerful' he means Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 game would have to be 'scaled back' to run on the Wii U. For specifics, he stated the system features a tri-core out of order CPU, 1GB of 'pretty slow RAM', and a 'decently featured' GPU that 'lacks raw muscle'. He also stated it is 'good and efficient', and that when it ships performance will be 'give or take a little' in the ballpark of the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3.
He's not once said that the hardware is a blanket downgrade from the 360/PS3. He has not pointed to any specific piece of technology and said "this is worse than the 360". He has not discredited the possibility that some part of the Wii U is superior to current gen systems (if anything he endorsed this). What he said was that porting a 360/PS3 game directly to the Wii U would require scaling back the game due to hardware difficulties, and he gauges this as 'less powerful'.
It is strange that he is the only leak to openly and blatantly claim the hardware is very similar to current generation systems. But again, there are a whole host of reasons he might think this, regardless of whether he is wrong or right.
Those expecting a bit of grunt under the hood should maybe take a step back though, because numerous reports have suggested otherwise. Not just Arkam, but basically everybody other than IGN. We'll see come launch.
People need a little refresher on what, exactly, he has stated. He openly specified he does not know the final specs, and only the bits and pieces of a recent kit. He clarified, again openly and up front, that by 'less powerful' he means Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 game would have to be 'scaled back' to run on the Wii U. For specifics, he stated the system features a tri-core out of order CPU, 1GB of 'pretty slow RAM', and a 'decently featured' GPU that 'lacks raw muscle'. He also stated it is 'good and efficient', and that when it ships performance will be 'give or take a little' in the ballpark of the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3.
He's not once said that the hardware is a blanket downgrade from the 360/PS3. He has not pointed to any specific piece of technology and said "this is worse than the 360". He has not discredited the possibility that some part of the Wii U is superior to current gen systems (if anything he endorsed this). What he said was that porting a 360/PS3 game directly to the Wii U would require scaling back the game due to hardware difficulties, and he gauges this as 'less powerful'.
Those expecting a bit of grunt under the hood should maybe take a step back though, because numerous reports have suggested otherwise. Not just Arkam, but basically everybody other than IGN. We'll see come launch.
the way you are presenting this in some way making this sound all rational and sensible like... but on a business standpoint it does not sound very good for Nintendo's chances. You don't have to be a rabid fanboy to see that WiiU joining current generation hardware is a cruel joke. It better come out at $149 is the only rational answer to something like this. So let us just blame it on the devkit and walk away slowly. I don't see how Nintendo would get away with passing this off as Next-Gen. We never needed a warning about Wii U not having grunt force or great power but on par with current gen is a mind melting idea to entertain.
This we know isnt the case though. Every developer has said that they do not have to scale their games back and in some cases look better. Other sources are saying that it is pretty powerful, besides, everybody just links to the same articles. Even Develop who said the whole 2x thing couldnt confirm that but they have sources that say it is substantially more powerful than expected and that echo IGNs 5x claim.
This we know isnt the case though. Every developer has said that they do not have to scale their games back and in some cases look better. Other sources are saying that it is pretty powerful, besides, everybody just links to the same articles. Even Develop who said the whole 2x thing couldnt confirm that but they have sources that say it is substantially more powerful than expected and that echo IGNs 5x claim.
Wow, walk away from this thread for a few hours and come back to a mini explosion.
the way you are presenting this in some way making this sound all rational and sensible like... but on a business standpoint it does not sound very good for Nintendo's chances. You don't have to be a rabid fanboy to see that WiiU joining current generation hardware is a cruel joke. It better come out at $149 is the only rational answer to something like this. So let us just blame it on the devkit and walk away slowly. I don't see how Nintendo would get away with passing this off as Next-Gen. We never needed a warning about Wii U not having grunt force or great power but on par with current gen is a mind melting idea to entertain.
Arkam does not deserve attacks at all... we should be thanking him for even sharing a bit of the puzzle. Yet if he is not mistaken or something is wrong with his devkit's info I am sure to be pissed at Nintendo for playing this game again. I am sure not going to support such a thing
Contrary to what you or I would endorse, Nintendo seems to be paving it's roads (business wise) with relatively cheap and "trendy" hardware and ideas. Of course this focus comes at a real cost to us, but it isn't overwhelming factual to imply it comes at a massive risk for Nintendo or business in general. If anything, what it would imply is very little risk (short and long term, easy to recoup costs/generate profit) and very snarky business sense. Which is very Nintendo currently, I personally think the 3DS will be the last time we see Nintendo launch aggressive price wise, at least in the near future.
I'm not a fan of Nintendo as a policy maker or their rationale's for HW/SW and meeting current consumer demands. But the bottom line is a $250 priced Wii U with 360-level power/performance is a very good fiscal bet in 2012, regardless of fans, ports and third parties. Which in my opinion is Nintendo biggest current historical mistake, not taking to absolute priority the wishes and demands of fans, ports, and third parties. But it'll effect us more than them, that's the sad part.
True. The more I read and think about this the more I see Nintendo's DNA in this making it more and more real. I am sure they can get away with a $250 current gen powered WiiU this fall with a lot of fanboy complants but still selling like hotcakes.
So again no "Samaritan" dreams for you, guys!
I was much happier with 4x 360
Contrary to what you or I would endorse, Nintendo seems to be paving it's roads (business wise) with relatively cheap and "trendy" hardware and ideas. Of course this focus comes at a real cost to us, but it isn't overwhelming factual to imply it comes at a massive risk for Nintendo or business in general. If anything, what it would imply is very little risk (short and long term, easy to recoup costs/generate profit) and very snarky business sense. Which is very Nintendo currently, I personally think the 3DS will be the last time we see Nintendo launch aggressive price wise, at least in the near future.
I'm not a fan of Nintendo as a policy maker or their rationale's for HW/SW and meeting current consumer demands. But the bottom line is a $250 priced Wii U with 360-level power/performance is a very good fiscal bet in 2012, regardless of fans, ports and third parties. Which in my opinion is Nintendo biggest current historical mistake, not taking to absolute priority the wishes and demands of fans, ports, and third parties. But it'll effect us more than them, that's the sad part.
Thats my stance on the matter really. Especially after they gave the whole spiel on realizing a serious gap in system power etc led to poor support etc.
If they launch an Xbox 360 in 2012 it will be the first Nintendo console I dont buy.
THIS is where I am at.
If this proves true, and this is NINTENDO after all... They will try to hype the hell out of the UPad as the next big thing and may even become another crazy game changer. But really I am tired of supporting this type of thing so I hope that MS/SONY copies the Upad at launch of the next gen consoles. I'm sure one of them can find some ways to improve on it.
The best lesson a Nintendo fan can learn is to be a gamer first buy other hardware or invest in decent PCs so you wont miss out on great 3rd Party games. Because Nintendo rides the "special" bus when it comes to hardware
My post was less about the Wii U's specs and how I feel about them, and moreso with how Arkam has presented his information. People are oh so quick to write him off as a uncooperative troll without actually reading what he said and the manner in which he said it. I think he is somewhat mistaken, either due to devkit limitations and/or a miscommunication of hardware details, and still believe the Wii U will edge out current generation systems. But this is irrelevant.
Right, which is why I believe the above. The point is that if people don't want to believe Arkam's information and feel there are inaccuracies then sure, fine, believe and discuss that. But don't attack Arkam himself. He presented his case quite clearly and maturely. Read what he actually posted, and go from there.
THIS is where I am at.
If this proves true, and this is NINTENDO after all... They will try to hype the hell out of the UPad as the next big thing and may even become another crazy game changer. But really I am tired of supporting this type of thing so I hope that MS/SONY copies the Upad at launch of the next gen consoles. I'm sure one of them can find some ways to improve on it.
The best lesson a Nintendo fan can learn is to be a gamer first buy other hardware or invest in decent PCs so you wont miss out on great 3rd Party games. Because Nintendo rides the "special" bus when it comes to hardware
Contrary to what you or I would endorse, Nintendo seems to be paving it's roads (business wise) with relatively cheap and "trendy" hardware and ideas. Of course this focus comes at a real cost to us, but it isn't overwhelming factual to imply it comes at a massive risk for Nintendo or business in general. If anything, what it would imply is very little risk (short and long term, easy to recoup costs/generate profit) and very snarky business sense. Which is very Nintendo currently, I personally think the 3DS will be the last time we see Nintendo launch aggressive price wise, at least in the near future.
I'm not a fan of Nintendo as a policy maker or their rationale's for HW/SW and meeting current consumer demands. But the bottom line is a $250 priced Wii U with 360-level power/performance is a very good fiscal bet in 2012, regardless of fans, ports and third parties. Which in my opinion is Nintendo biggest current historical mistake, not taking to absolute priority the wishes and demands of fans, ports, and third parties. But it'll effect us more than them, that's the sad part.
And this from Iwata, though he's talking about software, not hardware:
http://andriasang.com/con01b/sakura_smash_bros_research/
I wasn't around for the original 'dojo' but it sounds like a shit storm of terror.
http://andriasang.com/con01b/sakura_smash_bros_research/
I wasn't around for the original 'dojo' but it sounds like a shit storm of terror.
http://andriasang.com/con01b/sakura_smash_bros_research/
I wasn't around for the original 'dojo' but it sounds like a shit storm of terror.
They did a great job with the website too.
Let's do this again, Masahiro!
This is emotional
I don't play games for logic dude
More so, given what he said, we should also consider the context of what was said. But that's already been brought up by several posters now.
We shouldn't jump to any rash conclusions.
Is this a common GAF cycle? The raging, collective emotional roller coaster drowning out the few sensible posters? Kinda scary
Nintendo's already facing an uphill battle going into next gen. If the Wii U offers no discernible power advantage over the PS360, I think that hill becomes a mountain. It's going to be next to impossible to sell that console to all but the most hardcore of Nintendo fans, and it's not guaranteed that lightning will strike twice with the casual audience. I think going with an under-powered console twice in a row is a very real financial risk.
He clarified, again openly and up front, that by 'less powerful' he means Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 game would have to be 'scaled back' to run on the Wii U.
But a lot of this comes down to the assumption that if Nintendo made a uber/moderately-powerful console...it would be a financial blockbuster. Which isn't a clinched argument either. In fact if you're a CEO looking across the spectrum of what's happened since the HD consoles launched (skyrocketing production costs, less focus on gameplay, costs to recoup, risks involved in new ip, risks to entire studis), you might as a conservative CEO come to the conclusion that a huge HW bump isn't ideal for your company long term. That a slight advantage (miniscule performance bumps in practice) over comp is a honest price for a honest service coupled with a new play idea. I think the assertion that a 5-10x power jump would be great for Nintendo, is a fallacy. Just as the power bump in HD consoles in terms of evolving gameplay and ideas, has really gotten us nowhere except prettier pictures. It has not improved performance across the board, we wait longer for loading screens and screen transitions than ever, which is my "true next gen" estimate.
And the "horsepower appetite" is something I think we need to seriously re-examine as gamers and dev's. As it pertains to pictures and IQ, we're far enough that we can focus more on gameplay, art and performance over tech. People who clamor for "real next-gen" have some explaining to do as to how that pertains to what the experience, craft and gameplay will gain from a huge jump in visuals. And what we gain from a market and development burden as well in that environment. So I'm more than willing to except a slight advantage over the 360/PS3, if Nintendo is willing to aggressively pursue features/online/exclusives/third parties and change their thinking as a company to make these things a pillar of their business...not just if it's good for Nintendo, but if not fuck you. They need to make a console that supports everybody, and specs are only a part of that equation probably the smallest and easiest part.
This is the part that interests me. Assuming this is accurate, what kind of current-gen game would need to be scaled back for Wii U, and why?