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Pachter: Nintendo in disarray, blown it with Wii U.

I'm not sure why people keep thinking $250 is possible. Nintendo have said so themselves that this will be an "expensive" system.

If you go back and take a look at that particular quote you cite, I believe it was something to the effect that "Wii U will be priced more than Wii" which does not mean necessarily that it will sell more than what Wii launched at ($250), but more than it is selling for now.


Why say so if it wasn't going to launch at more than their consoles have historically launched, i.e. $200-$250?

Manage expectations to surprise with a friendly price point and also throw off Sony and MS? Why tell Sony and MS--"we're going to be as cheap or cheaper than your premium models, better price drop to counter us"?

It's not gonna be a fiveninetynineusdollars type situation, but don't expect it to launch at $250 with a price drop 7 months later either. Unless you're one of those "trolololol it's only gonna be like 1.5x xbox 360 durr hurr cuz itz nintendo durr hurr" people, this system will launch at $350. $400 is sticker shock territory. $300 is lowballing it a bit considering the controller tech, but it could possibly go that low.

Wii U tech is not as expensive as most people think.. The console you envision is well beyond Nintendo's target audience. Do you want it to sit on the shelves for months while the media tears it apart declaring "Apple and FB have killed Nintendo"?

Iwata is still feeling the burn of 3DS's high priced launch disaster..

Good man. You get it. $249 is definitely the mass market price for a Nintendo home system which typically lasts 5 years before the next system is launched. The reason why PS3 and 360 have lasted so long without a successor is because of the huge losses those two systems incurred in the early part of their lifecycle.

More rational Nintendo fans like this fine poster, plz.
 
Funny how Pachter's arrival in the thread results in a sudden change of tune from everyone.


Anyway, I don't believe his statement that smart phones have eaten into the handheld market. The 3DS is selling at a record setting pace in Japan and is doing very well everywhere else, as well. The Vita doesn't seem to have met the same luck yet but I think that has more to do with Sony's stumbling than anything else. Additionally, had Nintendo launched the Wii U last holiday (when it wasn't even ready and no games had been finished) Nintendo would have dreamcasted themselves. Sega put themselves in a halfway-generational position and had moderate success, but no one felt like Sega had just ushered in the next generation of gaming. Nintendo would have done the same thing by launching too early. Nintendo wants to position themselves as the PS2, not the Dreamcast.
 
michaelpachter said:
I believe (and please feel free to disagree) that a large portion of the Wii audience comprised casual gamers--those who bought one or two games a year the first two years, then put the Wii aside--and that those casual gamers moved on to another platform.
As things stand with the last quarterly shipments, Sony has shipped 9.16 games per PS3, while Nintendo has shipped 8.48 games per Wii. If we split Wii into 2 groups, one who gets games at PS3 rate (Wiicore) and one who only gets two games (Wiicas), the split would have to be about 91% Wiicore, 9% Wiicas.

Regardless, if there really is a large Wiicas group who is gone, would they really be missing much in the way of profits from a group who is only buying 2 games? If we really imagine 35-50% of Wii owners only got two games, losing them completely would drop total Wii software from about 800 million to about 700 million.
michaelpachter said:
Nintendo is in disarray because they waited too long to launch the Wii U. I know that this sounds like (and is) sour grapes because they didn't launch the Wii HD in 2009 or 2010 as I "predicted". They should have, and because they didn't, the decline in Wii and DS hardware and software sales drove them into generating LOSSES.
If so much of the problem is Facebook and smartphone, what difference would it make if their successor console was 2012 or 2009? Wouldn't they still have the same problems now, except by launching earlier they'd have cut the Wii off in its prime? Instead of a 100 million selling Wii, perhaps we'd have Wii, Wii HD, PS3, and Xbox 360 all around 60 million. Not much different from now, but more fractured.
 
This shows that Pachter, whatever he is doing, it's doing it right (for himself)

The 2009 HD Wii, i would like to know how that scenario could work? It's a nightmarish suposition just to think about it, let alone to execute. It's potential effects in the user base and development communtiy are way to umpredictable. It just doesn't make any sense.

At this stage Nintendo is just following their natural generational console cycle. The only sensible argument that could be made is asking why the company opted to release such an underpowered console in relation to the competition, and that's in reality what ended up hurting the Wii. Since 3rd parties just couldn't migrate their busyness model to the platform's hardware specs.
 
michaelpachter said:
I'm paid to advise investors, and none have made a profit owning Nintendo stock.
Maybe they would've if they'd bought it back in 2005 when NTDOY was $13.65 and you were predicting Nintendo's next home console to have 10-25% market share. ;)

EDIT: That is super snark, though. Nobody saw the DS/Wii explosions coming in May 2005.
 
Maybe they would've if they'd bought it back in 2005 when NTDOY was $13.65 and you were predicting Nintendo's next home console to have 10-25% market share. ;)

EDIT: That is super snark, though. Nobody saw the DS/Wii explosions coming in May 2005.

Nintendo did.
They outlined it pretty well.
 

Rhod

Member
Nintendo did.
They outlined it pretty well.

They didn't see the DS explosion coming (in Japan). They'd have brought on more factories, earlier.

But the point stands - Only the platform holder knows what they are planning, and to predict 'addressable market' or the general trends in consumer purchasing, or to presume we know *anything* about Wii U other than 'HD', 'second screen' and 'apparently an entirely new proposition, not just an HD Wii' is to take a lot of journalist and forum conjecture as fact.
 

linko9

Member
Because I didn't predict that they would launch a Wii HD. I said quite clearly on multiple occasions that "if they were concerned about loss of market share for the Wii to HD devices, they should launch a Wii HD", and I said that I thought they were rational business people interested in making a profit, so it was likely that they "would" do what they "should" do.

My mistake was in predicting that they would behave as rational business people and avoid generating losses. They acted too late, the Wii/DS bubbles burst, and they started generating losses. In other words, I don't think they behaved rationally, as I think they believed that the Wii bubble would last, and that the DS would continue to sell well and fund the development of the next generation console in 2012, when they were ready to release it. Iwata's comments at GDC 2011 show that he didn't accept cannibalization of handhelds by smart phones, even at that late date.

Somebody asked about the impact of the Yen's appreciation, which contributed around 35 - 40% of the decline in sales, but certainly not 100%.

Any of you are welcome to apply for my job, but I suggest you stay in school as long as possible and pay attention before you apply ;-)

There are a few things that strike me as odd about your statements. Firstly, if the majority of the market for the Wii was casual gamers, why would releasing a "Wii HD" years ago have been a smart move? What makes you think that "casual gamers" care about HD gaming if they flocked to the Wii in the first place? Also, it seems like you're ignoring the fact that some of the Wii's most successful casual games came out within the last two years, and I'm pretty sure Just Dance 2/3 wouldn't have sold any better on a "Wii HD" (see: JD 360 numbers).

Secondly, let's turn to your comments on handhelds. You're grossly misconstruing Iwata's stance. He, and others a Nintendo, have said many times that Nintendo is competing against anything that takes up a consumer's time. This includes phone games. However, he doesn't see the two as "direct competitors," in the same way that, say, Windows and OSX are. For the most part, I tend to agree with him, though of course there is bound to be at least some people who forgo getting a dedicated handheld because they're satisfied by what their phone offers. But Iwata is doing exactly the right thing; he's pushing a handheld experience that can't be gotten on phones. It would be imbecilic to try to emulate the iPhone marketplace on a dedicated handheld; no one is going to give up their phone for another device, so you might as well stay far away from what phones offer, and try to offer a different experience.

Anyway, the proof is in the pudding. 3DS is more successful at this point in its lifetime than even the DS. And as for the "DS bubble burst," I really don't see where you're coming from. The DS followed a pretty standard sales trajectory for a highly successful platform, and when the time was right, Nintendo released a sucessor. Nothing about that screams "bubble burst" to me.
 
Nintendo did.
They outlined it pretty well.

No, they really didn't. They expected it to certainly sell better than the GameCube, but they weren't prepared for just how much it exploded. The rampant shortages that lasted for months and caused Nintendo to double down in upping production only after the explosion happened attests to that.
 

Vinci

Danish
The notion that 'addressable markets' are somehow outlined in stone and calculable is an error, unless you utterly ignore the power of innovation. What's the 'addressable market' for an Apple cellphone? Likely, if I'd asked such a question before its reveal, the calculation would have been dramatically off from the actual size of the market following its reveal and further development.
 

MisterHero

Super Member
Maybe they would've if they'd bought it back in 2005 when NTDOY was $13.65 and you were predicting Nintendo's next home console to have 10-25% market share. ;)

EDIT: That is super snark, though. Nobody saw the DS/Wii explosions coming in May 2005.
Speculators could've bought it back when it was ~$7 in 2003! :p Unless some doof really expected Nintendo's portable stranglehold to shrink that much, (even with the GCN's predicament, Nintendo held around ~50% of the industry). Nintendo was never going to give that up, and from 2004-2006 the Touch Generation software was catching on and elevating the DS.

Combined with the thriving DS, and Nintendo's massive IP library, and even several very successful GCN releases (evidence of a very healthy audience), it wasn't that hard to see that Nintendo had nowhere to go but upwards.

The evidence against Nintendo's approach with Wii isn't entirely fabricated, but the whole argument has nothing compared to what Nintendo can pull out of its hat whenever they want. So, we can listen to the speculation, but there are several reasons they are not the end-all conclusion.

That their marketshare is 'shrinking' now doesn't even have to be alarming if other markets are succeeding and experiencing massive growth (mobile, etc.). The only way Nintendo could truly lose is if they aren't making money on hardware or software, and that's simply not happening.

The trouble only started with the 3DS's original price, but that seems to have been fixed for a while.

The other continuing problem is with Wii's software support, which can be explained with lousy 3rd-party support that continued from GCN. So, it's not only investors who need to stop listening to lousy speculation, but the 3rd parties as well. Some publishers have admitted to this critical oversight of the Wii.

There's also the Yen exchange problem, which isn't their fault. Add to that the shrinking gaming market in Japan, which is also not their fault, but it's something that Nintendo has to protect.

The overall point is that Nintendo has a rock-solid foundation, there is nothing to burst.
EatinOlives said:
No, they really didn't. They expected it to certainly sell better than the GameCube, but they weren't prepared for just how much it exploded. The rampant shortages that lasted for months and caused Nintendo to double down in upping production only after the explosion happened attests to that.
While that is true, they were also trying to avoid too much inventory like Gamecube.
 

Rhod

Member
I am a huge fan of dakko dakko, and hope they are the success story of 2012.

Hope that doesn't doom them to failure ;-)

Hah! Thanks for the shout out. :D I missed this earlier.

I like to think our success is directly tied to how well we manage to create fun software that inspires potential players from any and all walks of life to buy it, rather than the peculiar and limiting notion of an 'addressable market', or the indefinable 'casual gamers'. So we are in with a shot at least!

If our paths cross at GDC next week, I'll buy you a beer or two to make up for indirectly calling your whole profession pointless. :) Just to show it's nothing personal.
 

apana

Member
I don't know what Pachter is like at his day job but his record as a video game analyst is sort of shady. I don't really put much stock in these predictions that he makes.
 
Hmmm. I definitely remember watching an episode of Bonus Round a couple* of years back where Pachter predicted Wii HD within the following year or so. Or was that just a dream?

*May have been a few. Years are moving by pretty quickly these days.

Maybe if I'd stayed in school longer, I wouldn't have such a tough time interpreting his words.

edit: Forgot the condescending wink. ;-)
 
Wow, what a successful troll by Pachter. Anyone who gets angry at the fact that people continue to ask him questions need look no further than this thread.
 
I work at a major developer, and I wish I had time to read this fairly large thread, but I'm too busy doing overtime crunch right now.

Too bad Mr. Pachter has no sympathy for me.
 
I believe (and please feel free to disagree) that a large portion of the Wii audience comprised casual gamers--those who bought one or two games a year the first two years, then put the Wii aside--and that those casual gamers moved on to another platform. The "other" platform may have been Facebook games, smart phone games, tablet games, or one of the other consoles, but once they moved on, they are not likely to come back.

The thing with this statement is it does not only apply to Nintendo. It applies to Microsoft also...kinect is already on the decline as a gaming peripheral. Games are not selling well at all for the peripheral. People bought a handful of games when it launched, but look at their sequels and any kinect game for that matter that released in all of 2011...they sold really bad.

Maybe it's time to start predicting that Kinect is dying.....instead of being so positive about Microsoft screwing the long term consumers that are willing to spend hundreds of dollars a year on games alone, start telling investors that Microsoft is screwed on their current path just like Nintendo....

the casual crowd are very fickle and shallow group of consumes to rely on for investing when it comes to video games....they only rely on whats "cool" as a basis for purchases but what's "cool" changes
 
At the same time, I believe (again, please feel free to disagree) that the growth of smart phones and tablets has attracted many potential dedicated handheld game customers, and these people also are unlikely to come back to either 3DS or PS Vita.

While the 3DS and the Vita might not attract new handheld gamers, smart phone games leave a lot to be desired. The lack of actual buttons and the incomparable quality of games on phones mean that people would look for alternatives to get better games on the go.

Dedicated portable consoles fill that gap, with a 3DS refresh or a Vita price cut it can see these consoles get an increase in sale and get back on their normal track.
 

Curufinwe

Member
Feel like we should relaunch the thread based off your post.

I think you're likely right about the market range for Nintendo. But I do feel it was clear pretty quickly that the success of the Wii would be very hard/impossible to replicate.

By 2009 momentum had dried up for the console (where your WiiHD came in I assume).

By dried up you mean it sold 22.49 million units in 2009 and another 17.18 million in 2010 and was the best selling console on the market in both years.

Sorry Michael, but I can't help feel that you've entirely misdiagnosed Nintendo's losses this year. Nintendo are still profitable on Wii hardware and software; heavily so, in fact. I very highly doubt that your mooted Wii HD, putting aside the practicalities of such a thing (it's a nice concept, but I can't really see a way it could be developed and sold), would have attracted much of a larger user base at all; consoles have ALWAYS been sold on the strength of software, as the 3DS has rather bluntly shown, and simply "adding HD" would have done not a damn thing. Nintendo's losses are mainly down to two big factors- the 3DS price cut (remind me about your prediction for that one again? ;)) and the Yen. Nintendo is extremely far from being the only one affected by the Yen; take almost every other large Japanese multinational by way of comparison. Couple this to smaller yet significant expenses like R&D and the new headquarters Nintendo's pumping cash into, and it seems to me that the lack of a HD console is pretty damn far from being Nintendo's primary source of losses.

I also think you're completely premature in calling WiiU a lost cause, too. As it stands, we know very little about this console; we know no software, nor it's graphical capabilities, nor anything of it's online network beyond the most basic of fundamentals. You're absolutely correct to state that the WiiU doesn't look like it'll succeed on the market, but you're wrong to state that it looks dead, because... well, it doesn't look like anything. Declaring it a preemptive failure neglects any console defining software; like declaring Wii a failure before Wii Sports was announced. I can understand your difficulties here; you're an analysist with very little to analyse. However, declaring it doomed to fail because we don't know the price, while ignoring the myriad other issues in play which we simply don't have an answer for, strikes me as somewhat premature.

Bravo.
 

Reuenthal

Banned
Wii sales suffered because they couldn't support the Wii, DS, 3DS and Wii-U platforms all at once. And at the point when they were mostly focusing on Wii-U and 3DS the sales of Wii suffered because there just weren't the games for it any more, Nintendo left it for dead. They didn't wait too long to launch Wii-U (or they did but not that much), they were profitable in 2010 and 09, they just killed the platform way too soon, before their Wii-U was out. Or I guess maybe Wii U should have come out somewhat sooner but sooner is probably end of 2011. And there are other factors to consider about how viable that would had been. It is probably not easy for even a company like Nintendo to be both focusing on their new console but also developing for their previous one. Or maybe they could have done better.

In any case a couple of months of the Wii being abandoned in favor of Wii-U development isn't the end of the world for Nintendo to be honest or a huge blunder. I think overall Nintendo handled the Wii pretty well.
 
I think, and all due respect to Pachter, but his relationship or his persona on the internet is that of a "troll" to use the internet lingo. This is very different than his relationship with investors, which is much more serious and straight laced. And I say this again with all due respect to the man, who I believe is quite intelligent.

So basically we have two very different variants of Pachter. One which deserves respect, and one which is little more than a troll. This is borne out with his "Pach attack" or whatever videos, which are definitely geared towards the internet audience who he refers to as "babies" or something along those lines.

So when he says Nintendo is ultimately finished, I believe that is a bit more of his trollish side nipping at our heels. IOW, don't take it too seriously.
 

dyergram

Member
I don't want a wiiu right now I fully expect to want one when they price it agresively low. I think they learned their lesson with 3ds.
 

ShinNL

Member
Because I didn't predict that they would launch a Wii HD. I said quite clearly on multiple occasions that "if they were concerned about loss of market share for the Wii to HD devices, they should launch a Wii HD", and I said that I thought they were rational business people interested in making a profit, so it was likely that they "would" do what they "should" do.

My mistake was in predicting that they would behave as rational business people and avoid generating losses. They acted too late, the Wii/DS bubbles burst, and they started generating losses. In other words, I don't think they behaved rationally, as I think they believed that the Wii bubble would last, and that the DS would continue to sell well and fund the development of the next generation console in 2012, when they were ready to release it. Iwata's comments at GDC 2011 show that he didn't accept cannibalization of handhelds by smart phones, even at that late date.

Somebody asked about the impact of the Yen's appreciation, which contributed around 35 - 40% of the decline in sales, but certainly not 100%.

Any of you are welcome to apply for my job, but I suggest you stay in school as long as possible and pay attention before you apply ;-)
What a cocky post from someone who gives bad advice to investors. Didn't you pretty much predict everything wrong this gen (5+ years)?

Your mistake was(still is) clinging to your previous predictions and keep tweaking them to fit them into your 'analysis'.

Thanks to your advice investors didn't get to make money from the Wii and DS momentum and you're proud of that?

It's funny how you mention how the DS bubble burst, even though it seems that 3DS is pretty much continuing the momentum from the DS.

The only thing you've been good at is providing hindsight data and I don't think that's what people expect from an analyst.
 

oneils

Member
What a cocky post from someone who gives bad advice to investors. Didn't you pretty much predict everything wrong this gen (5+ years)?

Your mistake was(still is) clinging to your previous predictions and keep tweaking them to fit them into your 'analysis'.

Thanks to your advice investors didn't get to make money from the Wii and DS momentum and you're proud of that?

It's funny how you mention how the DS bubble burst, even though it seems that 3DS is pretty much continuing the momentum from the DS.

The only thing you've been good at is providing hindsight data and I don't think that's what people expect from an analyst.

Uh, did you not read his post explaining that Nintendo stock has declined by 80% in the last few years?
 

Jokeropia

Member
^
That counters nothing in Soneet's post, which simply points out that Pacther completely missed the boat on the DS and Wii successes that caused their stock to rise by ~700% from 03 to 07.
 
Uh, did you not read his post explaining that Nintendo stock has declined by 80% in the last few years?

Did you read his post about none of his clients making money off Nintendo. The stock rose over 400% from 05 to 07 and is currently still higher than that mark.
 

guek

Banned
I think there's an enormous difference between saying "Nintendo stock isn't very attractive at the moment, massive growth is not expected due to increased competition and wavering levels of confidence in their upcoming products" and implying nintendo is being run ineptly by connecting the few dots of info we have and pretending like their entire strategy for next gen is already visible. My biggest problem with Pachter is that he stands so stridently firm without acknowledging any other arguments, even when proven time and time again to be wrong. There is some truth to his logic, and it would be reasonable for someone to come to the conclusion that nintendo is currently a shaky bet at best, but it just seems like he chooses bits and piece of the whole puzzle, ignores any contradictory points of view, and then spews doom from his mouth like hot molten lava.

And then when he's wrong, he acts all self righteous and borderline indignant that you would point something like that out, as if to say there was no way he could have known any better.
 
I think Pachter is a human being like everybody else, just doing his fucking job. You can't always be right, especially on what he does for a living.

And you Michael, don't get cocky man, that's like spilling oil all over the place then throwing fire in it, while staying in the middle. I sure hope you have a nice thermal suit.
 
"Nintendo stock isn't very attractive at the moment, massive growth is not expected due to increased competition and wavering levels of confidence in their upcoming products"

That's not a bad way to describe the situation, but I think most Nintendo fans on the other side of the fence of the argument are missing acceptance of the reality that there has been a fundamental and permanent shift in the market due to the rise of mobile and social gaming, and their stranglehold on the casual market that Nintendo once held.

Further, is the Wii U concept novel enough that everyone has to try it (core gamers as well as casuals)? It's looks pretty safe that the answer to that is, no.
 

DrWong

Member
Did you read his post about none of his clients making money off Nintendo. The stock rose over 400% from 05 to 07 and is currently still higher than that mark.

True. It was exceptionnally high between 06 & 07 and since gradually went down. After 2008 only way to make money with Nintendo stock was to sell it at a good price... I mean, it would have make sense only for people with stock bought before 06 (for that accurate predictions needed ^^). Pure financial speculation here with nothing related to how Nintendo is dealing on mid/long term perspectives and the contradictory reality of the industry. If it was just for stock, Nintendo should have died or gone third party a long time ago I guess, beginning of 95 for example, when stock was at 6.40 (it's at 19.40 at the moment). Stock doesn't tell anything about future, can't predict with.
 

Krakn3Dfx

Member
How many times does this guy have to be wrong before he stops getting attention? Talk about someone's 15 minutes of internet fame being 14 minutes too long.
 

guek

Banned
Further, is the Wii U concept novel enough that everyone has to try it (core gamers as well as casuals)? It's looks pretty safe that the answer to that is, no.

I think that's jumping to conclusions. It's reasonable to be pessimistic, but unlikelihood doesn't equate certainty. The truth is that there are many contradictory arguments that can be well defended. A lot of people, myself included, thought 3D would be an overwhelming hook for the 3DS. Judging by the response nintendo got in 2010, I wouldn't say that was an unfounded hypothesis, even though things did turn out the other way. Then many said the machine could never crawl its way out of the hole that nintendo had dug, but all signs point to a respectable healthy future for the 3DS. Many called the wii a joke in 2006, and it's understandable why, but that turned out completely differently as well. A lot of people scoffed at the kinect because of accuracy issues and difficulties involved with button-less gameplay. All those arguments had strong points behind them, but that doesn't change the fact that those arguments did not accurately predict what happened.

This is especially relevant to the upcoming wii u, of which we know surprisingly little. There are pieces and bits for sure that we've been given to mull over for the past year, but it's way premature to even say "the wii u will be this kind of product." It's possible to theorize and speculate and make educated guesses (which is why we have a monster wii u speculation thread), but the console's true identity is still relatively obscured at the moment.
 
A few have wondered in this thread and I have to 3 years.

How does a Wii HD play out good for Nintendo?

Would it be cheaper than the PS3 or 360 in 2009? No.

Would it have what the people who had a HD want and switch to Nintendo as main console? That seems unlikely. So you are trying to get people who were likely to go with PS360.

You got the graphics with HD power and price.
But what is the control scheme? Games built for Dual Analog are going to need that controller in the box. That would be the standard.
But what about the online community? How does Nintendo get that in order in 2009?

And how would Nintendo go about making their games? Doing dual releases of SD and HD? Seems inefficient. HD console base would be a fraction of the SD early on but making those games would cost more.

I have never seen anything on the most basic concerns about a Wii HD console prediction addressed.

Say this goes well somehow they are then talking about releasing another console in 3 more years. Again. Seems inefficient.
 

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
Although I agree with Pachter's conclusion that Nintendo is in disarray, his means of justifying it is complete nonsense, in typical Pachter fashion. Announcing pricepoint(s) this early would jeapordize them more than it would benefit them, especially if the hardware is not finalized yet. There's no good rationale for announcing it early. Pachter really has no idea about anything when he opens his mouth.
 

DrWong

Member
That's not a bad way to describe the situation, but I think most Nintendo fans on the other side of the fence of the argument are missing acceptance of the reality that there has been a fundamental and permanent shift in the market due to the rise of mobile and social gaming, and their stranglehold on the casual market that Nintendo once held.

Further, is the Wii U concept novel enough that everyone has to try it (core gamers as well as casuals)? It's looks pretty safe that the answer to that is, no.
I don't know for this f...casual shift. Let's wait for the Nintendo "casual" games before no ? I mean 3DS was doomed not so long ago and after a price cut and big games came out it's a completely different situation. Now the question is not to know if 3DS will succeed, but how well it will succeed.

Regarding the Wii U you should be less definitive with your statement.
 

mantidor

Member
A few have wondered in this thread and I have to 3 years.

How does a Wii HD play out good for Nintendo?

Would it be cheaper than the PS3 or 360 in 2009? No.

Would it have what the people who had a HD want and switch to Nintendo as main console? That seems unlikely. So you are trying to get people who were likely to go with PS360.

You got the graphics with HD power and price.
But what is the control scheme? Games built for Dual Analog are going to need that controller in the box. That would be the standard.
But what about the online community? How does Nintendo get that in order in 2009?

And how would Nintendo go about making their games? Doing dual releases of SD and HD? Seems inefficient. HD console base would be a fraction of the SD early on but making those games would cost more.

I have never seen anything on the most basic concerns about a Wii HD console prediction addressed.

Say this goes well somehow they are then talking about releasing another console in 3 more years. Again. Seems inefficient.

No one address this because no one has a freaking clue. As has been pointed out in the thread, the whole strategy is pretty much under wraps, all we know is tablet, HD and nothing else, not even a single game, not how backwards compatibility will work, nor the online, nothing.

Predictions about the Wii U at this point are useless and very likely to end up being untrue.
 
No one address this because no one has a freaking clue. As has been pointed out in the thread, the whole strategy is pretty much under wraps, all we know is tablet, HD and nothing else, not even a single game, not how backwards compatibility will work, nor the online, nothing.

Predictions about the Wii U at this point are useless and very likely to end up being untrue.

I was not talking about Wii U. I was talking about a Wii HD that would of been circa 2009. I have never seen a hypothesis about how that would of been good other than Pachter saying it should of happened cause he knows best.
 
Regarding the Wii U you should be less definitive with your statement.

Okay, let's all be fair here.. Can any Nintendo fan in this thread tell me point blank that the Wii U tablet gimmick is going to, or has the potential to, come anywhere close to the inherent novelty and mass appeal of the Wii remote?
 

M-PG71C

Member
Okay, let's all be fair here.. Can any Nintendo fan in this thread tell me point blank that the Wii U tablet gimmick is going to, or has the potential to, come anywhere close to the inherent novelty and mass appeal of the Wii remote?

I say no more so than the 3DS did with 3D. The Wii U will do well, certainly, but I don't expect it to hit that kind of notoriety.
 
I don't know for this f...casual shift. Let's wait for the Nintendo "casual" games before no ? I mean 3DS was doomed not so long ago and after a price cut and big games came out it's a completely different situation. Now the question is not to know if 3DS will succeed, but how well it will succeed.

Regarding the Wii U you should be less definitive with your statement.

I don't think he's being as definitive as you think.

Look at the Wii circa 2006 from a non-gamer's perspective: "I just heard of this cool game console where you control it just by moving around a remote control. You play things like tennis, golf, and boxing on it". The context here is simple: a non-gamer had never tried anything like this before. Hell, even regular gamers never tried anything like it before. The novelty of the console went a long way in getting attention.

Now look at the WiiU circa last year: "I just heard of this game console where it's a tablet like the iPad with lots of buttons on the side". The context here is also simple: far more non-gamers have tried the iPad now than they did a motion-sensing wand back in 2006. The appeal of novelty simply isn't there. A big selling point of the Wii was also its simplicity in intuitive control. You pick it up, you see a little dude with a racket, your first instinct is to swing the remote like a racket and HOLY CRAP he just swung his little arm! A non-gamer takes the WiiU tablet pad and starts futzing around with with the touch controls. "Eh, it's like the iPad. And what's with all these buttons and circles? Feels cheap too compared to the iPad"

The WiiU pad isn't as easy a sell as the Wii remote was. The novelty factor will be highly dampened by the fact that the tablet-like controller is very similar to the iPad in the eyes of a non-gamer. It's not the hot new thing in concept that the Wii Remote was.
 

Gaborn

Member
Okay, let's all be fair here.. Can any Nintendo fan in this thread tell me point blank that the Wii U tablet gimmick is going to, or has the potential to, come anywhere close to the inherent novelty and mass appeal of the Wii remote?

I think it's got a good shot to do better than the dual shock 4 at generating consumer interest.
 
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