Support NeoGAF

[Vinci]

Oh now we're talking about innovative software. Well, maybe there will be innovative software but I haven't enjoyed their innovative software on the DS or the Wii. Try to understand that I am just not excited about seeing them bring a touch screen Zelda game to my HDTV.

First of all, I'm sorry to hear that you haven't enjoyed the stuff they've made for these systems. I've loved a good variety of products on them, so our tastes are simply different. Secondly, I highly doubt we're going to get a touchscreen focused Zelda on the Wii U.

There's always potential but I don't think it will work out well for the WiiU. Maybe they will show something ay E3 that changes my mind but Nintendo is Nintendo and I expect the jump from Wii to WiiU to be similar to the jump from DS to 3DS.

I doubt it. The 3DS's 'innovation' has far less potential compared to the Wii U's.

If you are expecting Nintendo to blow you away at E3, well, I hope you aren't disappointed.

Oh, I'm sure they'll disappoint me in some areas, but I doubt they will in all.

 

[Reallink]

Just because you lack imagination doesn't mean others don't either. This is why the people that come up with things others haven't in the past get paid the big bucks.

To be fair, people said the same thing about Wiimote, Move, and Kinect, but none of them have really gone beyond the obvious.

 

[Clairvoyance]

I said that the WiiU doesn't have any unique features that people can't get elsewhere.

I think I am done here, I don't need this fanboy BS. The only opinion welcome in this thread is that Pachter is wrong and the WiiU will be amazing and shit magic sparkles.

It has plenty of unique features. You just choose to ignore them and continue bringing up your dislike of Kinect, DS, and Wii features. But rather than actually presenting an argument besides "i no like it", you resort to the good old "FANBOY!" insult.

 

[Vane_MagicCity]

It has plenty of unique features. You just choose to ignore them and continue bringing up your dislike of Kinect, DS, and Wii features. But rather than actually presenting an argument besides "i no like it", you resort to the good old "FANBOY!" insult.

Ok, what unique features does it have?

 

[EatinOlives]

Non-gamers bought the system because it looked like something that would allow them to have fun with their families. Motion controls provided them an ease of use aspect, but over the long term the rationale behind purchasing it wasn't for motion controls in and of themselves, but because of this ability to bring people together socially. Why do you think the most successful games on the system are local multiplayer titles?



And I'm not saying you're wrong. What I'm saying is that the long-term success of the Wii - it broke records for over three years straight - is not due to motion controls in and of themselves, but rather how it allowed them to play games with their kids and grandkids finally. Something they weren't able to do before. It turned gaming into both a meeting point for people with varying degrees of gaming knowledge, but in addition it made gaming into a spectacle that people didn't mind watching.

Yes, motion controls were the feature which allowed these jobs to be done - but they certainly aren't the only means by which they can be.

Nintendo had focused on exactly the kinds of experiences that you're talking about in their previous generations with games like Mario Party, Mario Kart, etc., but for some "weird" reason it was the Wii that was hands down the most successful, and that reason was simply motion controls.

Everything that you're saying that the Wii was able to do was only possible because of motion controls. It wasn't the end goal, it was the vital foundation. Without it, there would not have been an explosion of sales and attention given to the console. Its success and wide appeal stemmed directly from the motion control scheme, and while the ultimate goal was not "motion control scheme" it was the single biggest reason why the console did as well as it did. It was the gateway and the key for everything that you just said.

 

[Sinoox]

Patch seems like a really nice guy, at this point I think that's the strongest reason he has a job doing what he does. He does bring in a lot of interesting view points on his show on GameTrailers so he definitely has a place where he belongs, but I don't understand why people take everything he says so seriously... especially his predictions. I mean you ought to know better by now.

 

[TriGen]

Fair enough but let's just see how it goes, I don't think it's going to do very well because it offers nothing that people can't get elsewhere.

The same could be said for anything gaming related though. The Wii U is going to be an HD console with a controller that has traditional buttons and a screen in the middle. So it's basically just a video game console like the 360/PS3 are just video game consoles.

The 720/PS4 are going to be essentially the same thing, they will be consoles for video game fans that also like having a few apps, hell they may even have a screen in the middle of their contoller to, which isn't a big deal because the screen is just an extra addition to a normal controller.

So what I'm saying is you are right, the Wii U won't really do anything that you can't find elsewhere in some form, just like the PS3 doesn't do anything that you can't find elswhere in some form. The only reason to own a Wii U is the only reason people own a 360/PS3/Wii/DS/3DS/PSP/PSV, because they like games and want to own the games that are available on those platforms.

I think that point is what your missing, the Wii U will not do anything magical, no console in the future or past has, people will buy the Wii U if they want the games available for it, that's it. You said you felt it would be a waste of money because it won't do anything esspecially different and that may be true but if that's what makes the Wii U a waste of money then every upcoming console from Sony and Microsoft will be a waste of money as well, and it could be argued that the PS3 was a major waste because we already got HD gaming from the 360, but I don't think my PS3 was a waste because there were games I wanted for it that weren't available on the 360.

I feel like you and I have some similar tastes in gaming as I too did not enjoy the Wiimote and would have preffered it if every game was playable with a classic controller, but I bought the Wii and put up with the Wiimote because I wanted to play games like Super Mario Galaxy. So what it comes down to is this, every console from here on out will be a waste of money unless it has good games that the consumer want's to play, it won't come down to if it does anything that you can't find anywhere else it comes down to if the same old boring consoles have games that you can't find anywhere else.

A lot of your arguments have been alright but saying the Wii U is a waste and will fail because it doesn't do anything that you can't find elsewhere is false, it will fail if it doesn't have good exclusive games that you can't find anywhere else, and the exact same is true for the PS4 and next-gen Xbox.

 

[Vane_MagicCity]

The same could be said for anything gaming related though. The Wii U is going to be an HD console with a controller that has traditional buttons and a screen in the middle. So it's basically just a video game console like the 360/PS3 are just video game consoles.

The 720/PS4 are going to be essentially the same thing, they will be consoles for video game fans that also like having a few apps, hell they may even have a screen in the middle of their contoller to, which isn't a big deal because the screen is just an extra addition to a normal controller.

So what I'm saying is you are right, the Wii U won't really do anything that you can't find elsewhere in some form, just like the PS3 doesn't do anything that you can't find elswhere in some form. The only reason to own a Wii U is the only reason people own a 360/PS3/Wii/DS/3DS/PSP/PSV, because they like games and want to own the games that are available on those platforms.

I think that point is what your missing, the Wii U will not do anything magical, no console in the future or past has, people will buy the Wii U if they want the games available for it, that's it. You said you felt it would be a waste of money because it won't do anything esspecially different and that may be true but if that's what makes the Wii U a waste of money then every upcoming console from Sony and Microsoft will be a waste of money as well, and it could be argued that the PS3 was a major waste because we already got HD gaming from the 360, but I don't think my PS3 was a waste because there were games I wanted for it that weren't available on the 360.

I feel like you and I have some similar tastes in gaming as I too did not enjoy the Wiimote and would have preffered it if every game was playable with a classic controller, but I bought the Wii and put up with the Wiimote because I wanted to play games like Super Mario Galaxy. So what it comes down to is this, every console from here on out will be a waste of money unless it has good games that the consumer want's to play, it won't come down to if it does anything that you can't find anywhere else it comes down to if the same old boring consoles have games that you can't find anywhere else.

A lot of your arguments have been alright but saying the Wii U is a waste and will fail because it doesn't do anything that you can't find elsewhere is false, it will fail if it doesn't have good exclusive games that you can't find anywhere else, and the exact same is true for the PS4 and next-gen Xbox.

Well we aren't talking about the 720 or the PS4 as we don't even have an announcement yet. While it's true it will come down to the games, I think it's Nintendo who doesn't see that. They aren't pushing games, they are pushing gimmicks. I think in the games department, the Wii comes up pretty short compared to the 360/PS3 and I haven't seen anything that will make me think the WiiU will have better games. Super Mario Galaxy is an amazing game but it could have been better with an option to turn off motion controls. Phantom Hourglass needed an option to use buttons and the d-pad.

Next gen we have the motion control DS, it's gimmick city and Nintendo will not use that to give us options, they will ruin great games with gimmicky controls. I hope I am wrong but why would I believe any different?

You know what though, maybe I am just an old gamer who doesn't belong anymore. I am a person who played more Virtual Console than I did Wii games and more JRPG ports on the DS than I did games made for the DS. Perhaps gaming just won't interest me at all next gen. I'm ok with that too but if people like me lose interest, how much will it hurt the industry, if at all?

 

[sfried]

Well we aren't talking about the 720 or the PS4 as we don't even have an announcement yet. While it's true it will come down to the games, I think it's Nintendo who doesn't see that.

If they didn't see that, would the 3DS have picked as it did

Phantom Hourglass needed an option to use buttons and the d-pad.

What the hell? Phantom Hourglass controlled fine. I thought the complaints were more about the dungoen structure and revisiting it.

Next gen we have the motion control DS, it's gimmick city and Nintendo will not use that to give us options, they will ruin great games with gimmicky controls. I hope I am wrong but why would I believe any different?

Because you're jumping to conclusions? You're asserting Nintendo won't take it's front on the WiiU as seriously as the other two competitors, and while there's evidence on the contrary, there's not much about the console to know about otherwise. So the tablet controller looks like a gimmick, but is there all there to it? I guess you wouldn't give them a benefit of a doubt since there are no leaks about what other features are there?

I agree with royalan that what Nintendo does defies conventional wisom, both with investors and its fans, but that's no reason to be dsimissive of the WiiU.

 

[Vane_MagicCity]

If they didn't see that, would the 3DS have picked as it did

A huge price cut played a role in the 3DS picking up as it did. No doubt Mario helped sell alot of 3DS too.

What the hell? Phantom Hourglass controlled fine. I thought the complaints were more about the dungoen structure and revisiting it.

Yes, it controlled fine but so did Skyward Sword. Some people just don't like gimmicky controls. I am one of them. I prefer not to concentrate more on the controls, than on the game itself. Phantom Hourglass controls just never grew on me.

So the tablet controller looks like a gimmick, but is there all there to it? I guess you wouldn't give them a benefit of a doubt since there are no leaks about what other features are there?

Should I give Nintendo the benefit of the doubt? There is a pattern here so until Nintendo shows me otherwise, the new controller is just the bottom half of a DS/3DS.

 

[TriGen]

Well we aren't talking about the 720 or the PS4 as we don't even have an announcement yet. While it's true it will come down to the games, I think it's Nintendo who doesn't see that. They aren't pushing games, they are pushing gimmicks. I think in the games department, the Wii comes up pretty short compared to the 360/PS3 and I haven't seen anything that will make me think the WiiU will have better games. Super Mario Galaxy is an amazing game but it could have been better with an option to turn off motion controls. Phantom Hourglass needed an option to use buttons and the d-pad.

Next gen we have the motion control DS, it's gimmick city and Nintendo will not use that to give us options, they will ruin great games with gimmicky controls. I hope I am wrong but why would I believe any different?

You know what though, maybe I am just an old gamer who doesn't belong anymore. I am a person who played more Virtual Console than I did Wii games and more JRPG ports on the DS than I did games made for the DS. Perhaps gaming just won't interest me at all next gen. I'm ok with that too but if people like me lose interest, how much will it hurt the industry, if at all?

I Think Nintendo isn't that focused on gimmicks this gen though that's why I think they made the Wii U, it seems to me they ditched the Wiimote as a primary controller and went back to a simple old school console that has a controller with buttons and only added a screen to the middle of it because like we've heard in some rumors there is a good chance other consoles might have one as well, so they figured it's better to be first then last with one.

I also agree with you about the PS3/360 being better systems this gen and having a bigger array of games, I only brought them up because you said that the Wii U would likely fail because it doesn't do anything that can't be found anywhere else and I was just pointing out that the PS3/360 don't do anything that you can't find anywhere else the only thing they do well is they have a few exclusives and get all the third party games.

That's really the only reason I brought up the 720/PS4 too because they are pretty much guaranteed not to do anything that can't be done elsewhere with a PC or tablet or something, what will likely be nice about them is their games.

I guess only time will tell if Nintendo can get all the third pary games that Microsoft and Sony can but as of now their isn't a reason they can't, HD isn't standing in the way and motion controls aren't standing in the way, so it seems likely that all 3 consoles next-gen will be similar from a input point of view meaning they will all have controllers with buttons and there is a chance they might have a screen in the middle but I don't think the screen is there to change the games or as a gimmick it will just be there as a little extra bonus.

I see where your coming from as I feel controllers have never really needed to do anything more once we got analog but that doesn't mean something else being on the controller will ruin a gaming experience. I'm pretty set in my ways too and if all systems wanted to have a Kinect like future I probaly wouldn't play games anymore, hell I've never even felt phones needed to do much more then call/text but as proven with phones having the option to go online with one doesn't mean it ruins a phone call.

My only original point of responding to one of your posts was to say that while the Wii U could fail it will have nothing to do with it's ability or lack thereof to do something that hasn't been done before as neither the 360 or PS3 do anything that hasn't been done before, I mean look at them they play games and have a few apps like Netflix, the only thing they do well is get every game except a few Nintendo exclusives.

So the important thing for the Wii U is that it gets third party games plus has it's own exclusives. Point being it's success or failure will have nothing to do with it's ability to do something unique, as that's impossible no console will do anything that can't be done with a PC or with some other device, it's success as you and I believe now agree on will have to do with getting all the games it can, just like Sony and Microsofts next consoles success will hinge on getting as many good games as it can.

 

[sTaTIx]

I DON'T have a problem with Pachter not always being right.

I DO have a problem with Pachter pretending he's never wrong.

 

[Dead Man]

I DON'T have a problem with Pachter not always being right.

I DO have a problem with Pachter pretending he's never wrong.

Indeed.

 

[seady]

He needs to get attention every once a while, or his popularity will wane and no one will ask him for his 'analysis' anymore.

 

[DOA]

To give him credit, he was right that Nintendo should have release the a "Wii HD" earlier.

what do you mean by "earlier"? they have around 6 years intervals between each console launch. they should stick with it. even though the Wii sold less, it doesn't mean that they needed to shut the production off. I think that they make more money with each console they make now, then they did earlier. the console already payed its R&D costs years ago, and they still have some good games coming to NA (the last story, Xenoblade).
when it still sells millions of units per year, they shouldn't stop producing them.

Pachter has been incredibly off for years now.

Wii HD prediction for years?

$250 3DS too low?

Vita will outsell 3DS?


Seriously dude, just stay away from nintendo predictions.

edit: also when he called the Team Bondi people whiners. that was awful.

actually i want him to continue to predict stuff, that way i just need to think and do the opposite. probably he is investing on stocks and tries to buy them low

 

[GlamFM]

I DON'T have a problem with Pachter not always being right.

I DO have a problem with Pachter pretending he's never wrong.

So very good he does´t do that I guess...

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Based on this, I'm shocked you're not thrilled Nintendo has moved back towards a more traditional controller. I mean, yes, there's a big touchscreen in the center, but it's still a standard controller for all intents and purposes - outside of what developers feel the touchscreen might buy them. Seriously, there's nothing stopping them from using the damn thing for little more than a Friends List notification system or a chat window or whatever else that has bugger all to do with how a traditional type game actually would play on it.

This gives me an idea for a use of the screen to attract Xbox 360 fans.

 

[pieatorium]

That is the bubble that pacther keeps talking about. What happened to the investors who hung on? Do the gaffers in this thread think that NTDOY will quadruple again with 3DS and Wii-U?

If so, are they putting their money where their mouth is? Who here is going to buy NTDOY now that Wii-U is coming out?

I know who I would listen to first for investing advice.

Pachter is not saying that Wii-U will suck, or anything like that. Investors have lost confidence in Nintendo, hence the drop in price. How will Nintendo get their confidence back? Is it Wii-U? I, personally, don't know.

I don't want to put words in his mouth, but Pachter seems to think that Wii-U will not turn their value around. No one is saying that the Wii-U as a console will be terrible. The implication is that it just won't be all that great for business. Or good enough, at least, to see what we saw during 05-07 ish.

The point was is that Pachter was lttp on both Nintendos sucess and also it's decline.

 

[stupei]

Well we aren't talking about the 720 or the PS4 as we don't even have an announcement yet. While it's true it will come down to the games, I think it's Nintendo who doesn't see that. They aren't pushing games, they are pushing gimmicks. I think in the games department, the Wii comes up pretty short compared to the 360/PS3 and I haven't seen anything that will make me think the WiiU will have better games. Super Mario Galaxy is an amazing game but it could have been better with an option to turn off motion controls. Phantom Hourglass needed an option to use buttons and the d-pad.

... what? Can you explain in what way the very minor nearly non-existent motion controls were remotely a negative in Mario Galaxy aside from an abstract "but I don't want things to change"? With Skyward Sword I can at least see why someone who is opposed to motion controls would be put out, but they're completely unobtrusive in Mario Galaxy.

The point was is that Pachter was lttp on both Nintendos sucess and also it's decline.

Nuh-uh! Nintendo would still be trading at almost 40 if they'd just released a Wii HD in 2009 like Pachter said they would. Nintendo are the ones who are lttp. Clearly.

 

[Terrell]

So very good he does´t do that I guess...

So saying Nintendo needed to release Wii HD for about... oh, I dunno, 3 whole years, because the "fad" would end soon, when it was at the height of popularity, wasn't "pretending he's never wrong"?

I stand by my previous claim in this thread, GAF will argue any point, no matter how blatantly wrong it is.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

I've said it time and again and I'll say it again. The WiiU sounds like an awful idea and I honestly cannot see how anyone can be excited for it let alone make it a hit on the same scale as the original Wii.

However I said EXACTLY the same thing about the Kinect before its launch and for the life of me I do not understand how that laggy, buggy, ugly chunk of plastic, that lacks a true killer app, could have possibly been the huge hit it was.

And yet......

In short, much like William Goldman's thoughts on showbiz "..., no one knows anything".

500 million advertising budget is what sold kinect....it's amazing what a simple appearance on Oprah and the Ellen Degeneres show can do for your product...even if it blows.

 

[daxy]

... what? Can you explain in what way the very minor nearly non-existent motion controls were remotely a negative in Mario Galaxy aside from an abstract "but I don't want things to change"? With Skyward Sword I can at least see why someone who is opposed to motion controls would be put out, but they're completely unobtrusive in Mario Galaxy.

I like motion controls when it's done well and it's fun like in Skyward Sword, Metroid Prime Corruption and Excite Truck, because they're actually a worthwhile addition, but Galaxy's spin attack 'waggle' is there for the sake of having a Wii exclusive feature somewhere in the game. In that case there's no reason to have motion control instead of a traditional button, which is more precise and doesn't require you to flail your hand around. Galaxy doesn't even have motion control, it just has waggle. That's why I would have rather played Galaxy with the spin attack mapped to a button.

 

[Jibbed]

Calling it the fucking WiiU is the worst thing Nintendo's done in a while, they're screwed in their current situation.

 

[IrishNinja]

Calling it the fucking WiiU is the worst thing Nintendo's done in a while, they're screwed in their current situation.

this is gospel truth; every poorly-named console has...hahahaha i can't even finish this sentence; the ones with the most boring names have made the most money.
we haven't had a good name since the genesis, man.

 

[Jibbed]

this is gospel truth; every poorly-named console has...hahahaha i can't even finish this sentence; the ones with the most boring names have made the most money.
we haven't had a good name since the genesis, man.

Yup, although I wouldn't say names like 'PlayStation' and 'Xbox' are bad. I'm not particularly keen on 'Wii', but god knows what Nintendo was thinking when they decided to name a brand new console exactly the same, with a capital letter tagged on the end.

It just doesn't make any sense... hardware-wise, they're nothing alike. Market confusion maxed.

 

[Grinchy]

I stand by my previous claim in this thread, GAF will argue any point, no matter how blatantly wrong it is.

You are solid proof of that.

 

[Gamz_Gernaliz]

Good too see Pachter right on the money for once.

 

[IrishNinja]

Yup, although I wouldn't say names like 'PlayStation' and 'Xbox' are bad. I'm not particularly keen on 'Wii', but god knows what Nintendo was thinking when they decided to name a brand new console exactly the same, with a capital letter tagged on the end.

It just doesn't make any sense... hardware-wise, they're nothing alike. Market confusion maxed.

yeah, i dont like it either (but i can live with WU!), im assuming they wanted to build on the brand they'd had such massive success with - but i do tend to think the confusion stemmed a lot more heavily from just showing the controller and no box at E3, you know? then again, i recall reading early 3DS had problems with some people thinking it was just a fancier DS, so i guess you could be onto something.

but yeah, x-box, playstation...they're so generic! might as well just be "Game Brick".

Good too see Pachter right on the money for once.

well, it took like 800 something posts (postz?) but we found one, guys.

*edit: the gift keeps on giving!

Have they confirmed that it's an underpowered gimmick console for casuals?

 

[AniHawk]

everyone should just hire sega to name their consoles from now on. genesis, saturn, and even dreamcast were all pretty cool. even the game gear sounds cooler versus the game boy.

 

[IrishNinja]

...i can only back genesis, saturn and maybe nomad, in good conscience. the rest are no good and you know it, ani!

 

[stilgar]

everyone should just hire sega to name their consoles from now on. genesis, saturn, and even dreamcast were all pretty cool. even the game gear sounds cooler versus the game boy.

Pico? Pico!

 

[AniHawk]

dreamcast was weird, but i think it worked in its favor. wii is also weird, but it sounds too cute to be cool.

and while game gear isn't cool by itself, it's at least cooler compared to game boy. sega would have come up with better names for the ds and psp.

 

[mclem]

Yup, although I wouldn't say names like 'PlayStation' and 'Xbox' are bad. I'm not particularly keen on 'Wii', but god knows what Nintendo was thinking when they decided to name a brand new console exactly the same, with a capital letter tagged on the end.

It just doesn't make any sense... hardware-wise, they're nothing alike. Market confusion maxed.

To be fair, they've had a fair bit of success naming a brand new console exactly the same, with a capital letter tagged on the *front*.

everyone should just hire sega to name their consoles from now on. genesis, saturn, and even dreamcast were all pretty cool. even the game gear sounds cooler versus the game boy.

As a *name*, Nomad was *inspired*.

 

[Slavik81]

this is gospel truth; every poorly-named console has...hahahaha i can't even finish this sentence; the ones with the most boring names have made the most money.
we haven't had a good name since the genesis, man.

I think the name suffers from the same problem as the 3DS does: it doesn't sound new and exciting. It sounds like an incremental update to an old product people have gathering dust in their closet.

Maybe that doesn't matter, but I don't have fuzzy feelings about Nintendo's prospects these days. They really need a lot more to build excitement.

 

[IrishNinja]

Maybe that doesn't matter, but I don't have fuzzy feelings about Nintendo's prospects these days. They really need a lot more to build excitement.

well, again...judging from their call to "re-unveil" it @ E3, i'm guessing they came to the same conclusion as you.
after all, what got the 3DS selling wasn't the prospect of 3D, it was showing MK7/mario land and stuff consumers could look at & see was a jump in the hardware. i can't imagine anything less than that effort moving the kind've units they want for the WU.

 

[Metal B]

everyone should just hire sega to name their consoles from now on. genesis, saturn, and even dreamcast were all pretty cool. even the game gear sounds cooler versus the game boy.

I just being thinking. I know the GameBoy got his name, becauce of the WalkMan. But there is a little problem in the name. If the "man" "walks", the "boy" should "play" not "game". Until i immediately realise, why they could not follow exactly this schema ...

 

[IrishNinja]

haha...yeah, but there's other options!
introducing, the new Nintendo BoyPlay™!

take a bow, Gunpei.

 

[SmokyDave]

“I think Nintendo is in disarray. I think they’ve completely blown the Wii U by not telling people what the price is going to be. It’s going to launch at $249 because it has to. I think they’re dead anyway because Xbox with Kinect will be priced below that by the time they launch. Wii was a bubble and that the Wii bubble has burst.” - Wedbush analyst Michael Pachter

I think the bolded has some merit. It's far too early to say either way, but I wouldn't dismiss that sentiment out of hand. There may well be a chunk of buyers that were hooked into the Wii that won't be hooked into the Wii-U, PS4, Xbox Next or whatever else people come up with. I find that idea perfectly feasible.

 

[IrishNinja]

@ Dave - i don't think anyone's really gonna look at the last year of wii sales and argue that point, just that he said it so many times he was eventually right more out of coincidence than anything else.

but yeah, you gotta figure they're gonna lose a part of that block - not just to kinect, but to mobile and other stuff. i was thinking 3DS would have a harder time since the more casual Brain Training clientele can get a lot more bang for their buck now on ios/android, but it's doing quite well, so i'm not gonna follow Pachter here and say something i gotta walk back next year, heh.

 

[SmokyDave]

@ Dave - i don't think anyone's really gonna look at the last year of wii sales and argue that point, just that he said it so many times he was eventually right more out of coincidence than anything else.

but yeah, you gotta figure they're gonna lose a part of that block - not just to kinect, but to mobile and other stuff. i was thinking 3DS would have a harder time since the more casual Brain Training clientele can get a lot more bang for their buck now on ios/android, but it's doing quite well, so i'm not gonna follow Pachter here and say something i gotta walk back next year, heh.

Yeah, I'm just thinking of the phrase 'bubble'. I think that might be a fairly apt description for the sudden, large increase in userbase that cannot be replicated on future systems. I say that because I think that many of these people may not even move on to another system. They tried the Wii, had a dance / bowl and now they're 'over' videogames again.

I guess we won't know for a few years but I think it's perfectly feasible that we could see the videogame market noticeably contract.

 

[Metallix87]

I think the bubble "burst" because Nintendo and developers dropped the ball, not because the concept behind the Wii was a fad. Had support remained steady, and third parties put out bigger budget / higher quality games, we'd be looking at an entirely different situation right now.

 

[Curufinwe]

I was not talking about Wii U. I was talking about a Wii HD that would of been circa 2009. I have never seen a hypothesis about how that would of been good other than Pachter saying it should of happened cause he knows best.

Neither have I. Cutting the Wii off at the knees in 2009 never made sense.

 

[Shaheed79]

How much money have your clients made on the gaming industry in the past 7 years Patcher? Honest question. I know you can't give us specifics but how about a round about figure?

The following is not directed at you but rather just sharing some insight with gaf.

My old man is a financial analyst to a very large investment firm, who normally had never invested in anything in the field of video gaming. He does a lot of things in finance/investment/insurance that require several licenses like advising hedge funds. My dad and his company were able to make money for his clients off of the massive success of the Wii and DS. Fairly large amounts of money.

From what I can tell he got his clients in around late 2005 and got them out in time to more than quadruple their investments. They were so happy with his company's work, relating to the money they made from Nintendo stock, that they are now actively investing in video gaming and looking for more vg related investments (Social and traditional gaming companies alike).

Rockstar, Vivendi Universal and EA were the only game related companies whose portfolios were even glanced at by his clients before the success of the Wii and DS.
Before Nintendo accomplished what they did, the video game industry was considered to be a black hole for investment by many large investment firms and analyst.

Nintendo was the first traditional gaming company to convince some of these firms that wisely investing in game companies could lead to extraordinary profits because of the market segment they were able to reach.

He spoke with me about counter-trend and counter-market strategies that some analyst employ. He said it was unusual for a financial analyst to share their real projections for future growth or decline, within any given market, with anyone other than their clients, who in turn pay them to keep that information private.

He also talked about unethical tactics that are commonly being used. Some analyst publicly say one thing and privately tell their paying clients another.

Lets say the financial analyst has projected the stock price of a company to greatly increase in value, at a certain point in time, due to a potential merger/acquisition or projected higher profits/return to profitability. An investment firm can increase its potential profits by having market analysts publicly release negative projections about said company. When a negative public perception of said company has declined the stock price enough, they tell the preferred clients the optimal time to buy the company's stock, at a much cheaper price than they possibly could have before, for maximum profits.

Some even tell their paying clients 2 different things.

For Example: Tell preferred clients to buy bad stock at dirt cheap price. Then proceed to tell non-preferred clients to invest in said bad stock in order to artificially inflate the stock price. Finally tell preferred clients to sell toxic stock right at the peak of the artificial inflation. Of course they insure themselves from the financial repercussions of losing their non-preferred clients lots of money.

Both are quite ethically illegal but rarely enforced. Illegal tactics like this have become quite common since 2000 when the financial regulatory system was severely weakened. My dad feels it still hasn't been fixed. The second example was a key reason for the financial crisis from the toxic loans that were made and the derivatives taken out on those loans by preferred clients.

My dad explained to me that any intelligent financial analyst wouldn't pay too much attention to any publicly disclosed market predictions from another analyst who has clients they report to privately.

Regulatory agencies and other official financial channels are good to take into consideration but someone who is privately employed by their clients is not going to divulge important future market analysis publicly or to anyone but those clients, unless they are told to do so. In fact most high profile financial analyst sign an exclusivity agreement to that affect. My dad has had such an agreement with his clients for more than 30 years.

I'm not accusing Patcher of doing anything unethical but the fact still remains that if he reports to his clients privately and they pay him to keep that information exclusive to them, then anything he has to say publicly falls into the category of "read with skepticism" according to my dad. He is very good at his job.

Do you have an exclusivity agreement with your clients Mr. Patcher? Again just an honest question.

 

[saichi]

Well we aren't talking about the 720 or the PS4 as we don't even have an announcement yet. While it's true it will come down to the games, I think it's Nintendo who doesn't see that. They aren't pushing games, they are pushing gimmicks. I think in the games department, the Wii comes up pretty short compared to the 360/PS3 and I haven't seen anything that will make me think the WiiU will have better games. Super Mario Galaxy is an amazing game but it could have been better with an option to turn off motion controls. Phantom Hourglass needed an option to use buttons and the d-pad.

Next gen we have the motion control DS, it's gimmick city and Nintendo will not use that to give us options, they will ruin great games with gimmicky controls. I hope I am wrong but why would I believe any different?

I don't know where you got this idea. We will see the real game for Wii U at this year's E3 and it is a bit early to make that claim right now.

Besides, it's obvious you are no fan for non-traditional control but two of the biggest sellers that bring in the new audience are Wii Sports and Wii Fit. I'm sure they are gimmcky and terrible games for you but a lot of consumers enjoyed them.

Also, if you think Wii U's controller is gimmcky and don't like it, you don't have to buy Wii U. Just wait for the next Xbox or PS4 for your gaming needs.

 

[udivision]

I just being thinking. I know the GameBoy got his name, becauce of the WalkMan. But there is a little problem in the name. If the "man" "walks", the "boy" should "play" not "game". Until i immediately realise, why they could not follow exactly this schema ...

game is a verb

 

[Ithil]

Why does he still have a job?

 

[GreggTheGrimReaper]

When it comes to console names nothing can ever top TURBOGRAFX 16. Take notes Nintendoomed and you can be just as succesful.

 

[Medalion]

When it comes to console names nothing can ever top TURBOGRAFX 16. Take notes Nintendoomed and you can be just as succesful.

Turbo = Fast which is holy shit awesome
Grafx = hip way of spelling graphics, cuz those are the only things that matter
16 = 16 bits cuz bits mean EVERYTHING

SOLD!

 

[Pyrokai]

What I don't understand is why he now thinks it's "too late" to have an HD console. In my mind, it's their next-gen machine, which will be directly competing for market share against the Nextbox and PS4, not the current gen machines. I feel like it's a critical thing many people are overlooking. Its graphical capabilities don't reflect what it will be competing against.

 

[AceBandage]

What I don't understand is why he now thinks it's "too late" to have an HD console. In my mind, it's their next-gen machine, which will be directly competing for market share against the Nextbox and PS4, not the current gen machines. I feel like it's a critical thing many people are overlooking.

Pachter thinks that the Wii U is still as powerful as the Wii, but in HD.