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Wii U Speculation Thread 2: Can't take anymore of this!!!

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votre français est suffisent ;)

(depends où vous habitez parce que tout le monde aura différent dialectes)

My high school French didn't hold up to well (though that was 16 years ago). XD But I can make out some of this.

And honestly I don't know what you meant by the "birdies" mention. :(
 

guek

Banned
I think 2x 360 visuals, maybe even a little higher, is going to surprise and shock a lot of people. Most on this board seem to be expecting 360+tablet and nothing more.

But there's always going to be haters. I can already see the "ok better than I expected by it's not PS4/720" posts. It'll be even worse if MS or Sony show an unobtainable tech demo or if unreal 4 is really that monumentally impressive.
 
Thanks for the welcome folks :)

Yeah, i'm french, but i assure you, it doesn't always come with the "we can't keep a secret" or "we like to make black & white silent movie starring guys with moustache and cute dogs" stigmas ;)

Like i said in my foreword warnings, i'll stay "within the frame", so big secrets will remain secrets, but a bit of proactive light disclosure can only benefit Nintendo (well, for their hardcore audience at least) and help to stop the many pages of speculation concerning a fancied underpowered Wii U, fortunately, these pages were drowned in the middle of very interesting debates that i wish will continue !

Don't ruin my stereotype. French journalists have the leakiest sources in gaming. ;)
 
Hello all :)

Hey! Thank-you for the info.
It seems incredibly accurate and logical to me.
These whole 5x comparison things are silly anyway - technically, imagining a 5x increase in graphical capabilities and power, we would surpass what current PC's can achieve today. This is where the speculation gets a little bit muddled up.
However, like you say, a 2x increase is still great - it means the machine is a) more capable than current generation machines and b) will be able to deliver a higher quality of graphics overall, but surpass greatly in some areas (like the whole 5x on paper thing you said).

It's also extremely positive that you say this info is sourced from V4 impressions, and if this rumoured boost in power is true, then we're in for a real treat.

Thanks for sharing the info!
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
I think 2x 360 visuals, maybe even a little higher, is going to surprise and shock a lot of people. Most on this board seem to be expecting 360+tablet and nothing more.

I'm expecting a 6x Sega Genesis, launching with Shenmue III.
 
I think 2x 360 visuals, maybe even a little higher, is going to surprise and shock a lot of people.

No one is going to even think of raw specifications when they see the Nintendo Wii U games at E3.

When it's done, it'll be back to speculating and the silliness but during that event, no one will care because the games will look THAT dam good.
 
I think what people are actually doing in other threads and in general is overestimating both a) Microsoft's intention for their next generation machine and thus the power of the NEXTBOX and b) the meaning behind such advancement in graphics - 2x is a large increase, all told - coupled with more modern shaders, moire efficient processing and more experience form developers, things will be notably different.

Now, say the Wii U jumped to "3x" in the latest and final dev build. that's huge.
 

Azure J

Member
I'm going to take a stab in the dark and come to believe that the RAM amount is the biggest thing that will see the 4x/5x multiplier.

CPU: IBM POWER7 (Derivative) Tri-Core/2-Way SMT OoO Processor @ 3.0GHz
RAM: 2GB GDDR3/5 Unified + 32MB eDRAM Secondary Pool
GPU: Efficient 640SPU part that performs closer to a AMD Radeon HD 7770 than a 4830 (On a scale of 4830 - 5770/6770 - 7750 - Wii U[?] - 7770) on a 32nm process; 128bit Bus.

I won't rule out a higher clocked CPU but I won't go higher than this for this guesstimate simply because I don't understand the consoles innards and airflow strategy yet. On the GPU side, I still think that the performance of the mentioned 7770 from AMD sets a good performance/wattage precedent for a console designed to be a good bump up from current gen while not breaking the bank or nuking itself. In actuality, the card I'd reference back to if possible would sit somewhere between the 7750 & 7770 in performance, but as no card exists like that at current, I made a small scale above. GDDR3 vs 5 is still all about the power envelope vs. Nintendo's stance on latency with a potential price aspect playing in the consideration as well, but with the eDRAM basically acting as a Super Saiyan Pikmin fetching from the lesser pool of Pikmins, GDDR3 might be the actual choice.

IdeaMan's post has made me believe more in this idea I have in my mind. The numbers all look weird and match the strange 2x lower bound of general multipliers but the performance puts it in that higher bound of speculated multipliers.
 

cyberheater

PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
I think 2x 360 visuals, maybe even a little higher, is going to surprise and shock a lot of people. Most on this board seem to be expecting 360+tablet and nothing more.

If it can run the latest engines, Cryengine, Unreal Engine 3 etc... at 1080p at an acceptable frame rate then that will be enough.
 

nordique

Member
My high school French didn't hold up to well (though that was 16 years ago). XD But I can make out some of this.

And honestly I don't know what you meant by the "birdies" mention. :(

PM'd

(I just said his french is good, but also thats hard to gauge because dialects are so different. I was in France last summer (mostly in Paris) and I had a hard time with the locals, because Canadian French is very different in accent and certain phrases)



Now we're talking in French, this thread goes everywhere.

lol if it went into the Phoenix Coyotes struggles as a hockey franchise next, followed by theology and the latest in genetic disease prevention, then it would really be everywhere.


But I'll keep it english on my part so that doesn't happen. We wouldn't want to solve the meaning of life now, would we?

In a Wii U Spec speculation thread XD


this Wii U spec thread series is so much fun. Its like a a season drama on tv with plot twists and all sorts of characters lol
 
I'm going to take a stab in the dark and come to believe that the RAM amount is the biggest thing that will see the 4x/5x multiplier.

CPU: IBM POWER7 (Derivative) Tri-Core/2-Way SMT OoO Processor @ 3.0GHz
RAM: 2GB GDDR3 Unified + 32MB eDRAM Secondary Pool
GPU: Efficient 640SPU part that performs closer to a AMD Radeon HD 7770 than a 4830 (On a scale of 4830 - 5770/6770 - 7750 - Wii U[?] - 7770) on a 32nm process

I won't rule out a higher clocked CPU but I won't go higher than this for this guesstimate simply because I don't understand the consoles innards and airflow strategy yet. On the GPU side, I still think that the performance of the mentioned 7770 from AMD sets a good performance/wattage precedent for a console designed to be a good bump up from current gen while not breaking the bank or nuking itself. In actuality, the card I'd reference back to if possible would sit somewhere between the 7750 & 7770 in performance, but as no card exists like that at current, I made a small scale above.

IdeaMan's post has made me believe more in this idea I have in my mind. The numbers all look weird and match the strange 2x lower bound of general multipliers but the performance puts it in that higher bound of speculated multipliers.

You expect 2GB? Phew, I'd hope so, but I reckon we'll get closer to 1.5GB GDDR3 RAM.
 

PogiJones

Banned
Now, say the Wii U jumped to "3x" in the latest and final dev build. that's huge.

I’ve heard that V5 kits may exist. It is likely, as for many other consoles before, that Nintendo and first-party have more advanced and therefore more powerful/optimized dev kits. However, these v4 kits are apparently from the end of the year / beginning of 2012, and they are those which have benefited from the hardware boost reported on the net.


Looks like the 2x is with the boost already implemented.
 

Azure J

Member
You expect 2GB? Phew, I'd hope so, but I reckon we'll get closer to 1.5GB GDDR3 RAM.

I don't expect anything yet really. Day in and out I'm revising little elements of my suggestion with stuff I glean from this thread, trends in the engineering and pricing scales for parts, and general smoke from all the people chiming in with their "multipliers as guesses" in online articles.

2GB is just me being optimistic more than anything, but hearing that it's over 1GB alone has been reassuring since that tidbit was given by lherre all those months ago.

Edit: Even now I'm second guessing the location of where the Wii U falls in performance over the GPUs in that range I made. Maybe it'd be more towards 6770 --- [Wii U] - 7750 - 7770?
 
I just hope Wii U can handle the Frostbite 2 engine far better than PS360. It's my favorite engine so far. Battlefield 3 looked incredible on my machine.

I hope the difference between PS360 and Wii U is really noticable in terms of detail and especially framerate, and although I don't really care much about resolution, every game should be 720p. No more sub-HD games. Although as I've said many times before, framerate is the most important thing to me.
 
Only 64 colors on screen at once and no transparency effects would make it look considerably worse. Not to mention the sound.
The MegaDrive could handle tons of sprites with ease but it was nothing the SNES couldn't do with good programing or enhancement chips on the cartridges (the console was designed with this in mind and they were fairly common so its not cheating like some people seem to think, DKC didn't use them by the way). The bigger color palette, mode 7 effects (something like Mario Kart was just not possible on the MegaDrive) and much better sound make the SNES stronger by default no matter the speed of the CPU.

Sorry for the off-topic post (about the 16-bit console wars of all things). Looking forward to the Wii U E3 blowout, Pikmin 3 and all that.

naw it's pretty on topic. i think it came up when people where discussing Nintendo's history of consoles. but i just find it weird that somebody brings up exact specs when the visuals all spoke for themselves. but that's just my opinion
 
lol if it went into the Phoenix Coyotes struggles as a hockey franchise next, followed by theology and the latest in genetic disease prevention, then it would really be everywhere.


But I'll keep it english on my part so that doesn't happen. We wouldn't want to solve the meaning of life now, would we?

Good, you speaking in French makes me feel like an awful Canadian.
 

z0m3le

Banned
You expect 2GB? Phew, I'd hope so, but I reckon we'll get closer to 1.5GB GDDR3 RAM.

You won't really notice a difference at all...

I am glad Idea man came along with some info, some people are pretty hard to convince that Nintendo is moving forward at all. Also I think a lot of the dev kit's speculated visual performance will move up to that illogical "3x" multiplier when bandwidth and other bottlenecks are addressed.

If there is one thing I am sure of, it's that Nintendo will be competitive performance wise with the x720.
 
You won't really notice a difference at all...

I am glad Idea man came along with some info, some people are pretty hard to convince that Nintendo is moving forward at all. Also I think a lot of the dev kit's speculated visual performance will move up to that illogical "3x" multiplier when bandwidth and other bottlenecks are addressed.

If there is one thing I am sure of, it's that Nintendo will be competitive performance wise with the x720.

Me too, you know. Like I said up there a bit ^, I think people are both underestimating Nintendo's capabilities and overestimating Microsoft's intentions.
 
So MS could simply repeat their multi sku business model:
- 300$ "core" model = media hub
- 400$ "kinect" model = including kinect 2.0
- 500$ "pro" model = including kinect 2.0 AND tablet controller add on
MS has shown this generation, how much money is to be made with add ons, I don´t see them abandoning this approach come nextgen.

I think it is safe to say that Kinect 2.0 will somehow be integrated into the system. I doubt they will release any sku sans Kinect.
 

cyberheater

PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
So I think it will have around 48mb of eDRAM given the 4 or 5 times something of Xbox360.
 

z0m3le

Banned
I don't expect anything yet really. Day in and out I'm revising little elements of my suggestion with stuff I glean from this thread, trends in the engineering and pricing scales for parts, and general smoke from all the people chiming in with their "multipliers as guesses" in online articles.

2GB is just me being optimistic more than anything, but hearing that it's over 1GB alone has been reassuring since that tidbit was given by lherre all those months ago.

Edit: Even now I'm second guessing the location of where the Wii U falls in performance over the GPUs in that range I made. Maybe it'd be more towards 6770 --- [Wii U] - 7750 - 7770?

The 6770 (a rebranding of the 5770) is almost identical in performance to a 4870, except it has a 128bit memory bus, so avoid comparisons since it's a custom part, it should perform somewhere around the 4870 (6770 is basically the same) but with even more modern tech, and I suspect better tessilization (sp?) units. I will keep assuming that it's about 1.2Tflops and that xbox720 is @ about 1.4Tflops.
 

IdeaMan

My source is my ass!
Yeah, as explained in my first message, the V4 dev kit has already received the boost in power that the net talked about. Now, it doesn't exclude the possibility that the rumored V5 or any more advanced dev kit in the hands of Nintendo and First-Party for the moment represent another hardware upgrade. It's quite believable. The question is whether it's another big jump in capabilities (an increase of the ram, the frequency of some parts, etc.), a small one, or just optimization (that still could results in better performances).
 

guek

Banned
I think it is safe to say that Kinect 2.0 will somehow be integrated into the system. I doubt they will release any sku sans Kinect.

imo, whether or not every sku is packed with kinect will determine how much extra power they'll be able to or interested in jamming in there.

So I think it will have around 48mb of eDRAM given the 4 or 5 times something of Xbox360.

Would that really be that big of a difference compared to 32mb?
 
^ If the CPU does have access to it, I'd like to believe any little bit extra would help.

So I think it will have around 48mb of eDRAM given the 4 or 5 times something of Xbox360.

It's plausible. The original target was 32MB and wsippel said he was told some of the targets were increased.

The 6770 (a rebranding of the 5770) is almost identical in performance to a 4870, except it has a 128bit memory bus, so avoid comparisons since it's a custom part, it should perform somewhere around the 4870 (6770 is basically the same) but with even more modern tech, and I suspect better tessilization (sp?) units. I will keep assuming that it's about 1.2Tflops and that xbox720 is @ about 1.4Tflops.

I can see that scenario. If I put a range on it it would be Wii U .9-1.2 TFLOPs and Xbox 3 1.2-1.5 TFLOPs. I'm still kind of in denial about the 6670 rumor, but it would be in line with MSNerd's rumor.
 
So here's my UI design - question is whether this will display on the controller, TV or both.
The idea is similar to previous Nintendo UI designs - each app or game is represented by each of these windows. The idea is you wipe left and right to select an application. Tapping on the NN logo will bring up an entirely new screen overlaid on top, which will show you all your current NN connectivities and accounts etc. for easy sign-in/out to different accounts, management of friends, requests, data, stats and of course, game connectivity between friends, including video chat and messaging services.
At the top right you can see 3 icons - Browser, purchases/currently downloading software (which will glow a steady blue if something is downloading) and settings, respectively.
The idea for the UI was to keep it simple, elegant and easy to use. By reducing the number of steps it took to get to different apps and elements of the design, users can enjoy increased fluidity between actions.
Games/apps can be downloading whilst you play, and you will receive a notification upon completion. Increased RAM also means you will be able to refer back to the home screen a la 3DS/iOS, to launch the browser, other non demanding apps or check the NN network.
The idea is for this to act as an unobtrusive 'hub' rather than a dedicated menu. Ease of use and accessibility are a must to fit in with the controller's concept of keeping game elements away from the big screen.

Comments and criticism welcome, and sorry about the horrible compression artefacts imgur threw at me.

tpZjI.jpg

Quoted because IceDoesntHelp is a party pooper.
 

tkscz

Member
Long post

I use the X for power because it's what most people understand. Saying a system is X the other is somewhat subjective. This post pretty much proves that point and in an interesting read. Because a console is made up of many parts, each part will have a different advantage and power over the parts in other consoles from a previous generation.

A good example is the Xbox to the 360. CPU wise, the 360 is miles ahead of the Xbox, with multiple cores and threads, and being in the Gigahurtz speeds, it out powers the original Xbox by a lot. GPU wise, it's about 6x stronger than the original Xbox. There is literally a generation jump from the Xbox using a custom version of DX8 and the 360 using a custom version of DX9.

RAM gets confusing, as it's not just about numbers, but it's generation, bus, and transfer rate as well. The OXB (original xbox) uses DDR and the 360 GDDR3. Going by pure numbers of RAM, the 360 has 8x the amount of RAM compared the OXB. 360 has a 7x faster transfer rate, but both have a 128-bit bus.

But, IIRC, Microsoft made the claim that the 360 was 20X the Xbox. When only thing that comes close to the is the CPU.

The same can be applied with the Wii U and this generation. It's CPU or GPU could be pushing that 5x mark, but it's RAM or GPU may not be.
 
So here's my UI design - question is whether this will display on the controller, TV or both.
The idea is similar to previous Nintendo UI designs - each app or game is represented by each of these windows. The idea is you wipe left and right to select an application. Tapping on the NN logo will bring up an entirely new screen overlaid on top, which will show you all your current NN connectivities and accounts etc. for easy sign-in/out to different accounts, management of friends, requests, data, stats and of course, game connectivity between friends, including video chat and messaging services.
At the top right you can see 3 icons - Browser, purchases/currently downloading software (which will glow a steady blue if something is downloading) and settings, respectively.
The idea for the UI was to keep it simple, elegant and easy to use. By reducing the number of steps it took to get to different apps and elements of the design, users can enjoy increased fluidity between actions.
Games/apps can be downloading whilst you play, and you will receive a notification upon completion. Increased RAM also means you will be able to refer back to the home screen a la 3DS/iOS, to launch the browser, other non demanding apps or check the NN network.
The idea is for this to act as an unobtrusive 'hub' rather than a dedicated menu. Ease of use and accessibility are a must to fit in with the controller's concept of keeping game elements away from the big screen.

Comments and criticism welcome, and sorry about the horrible compression artefacts imgur threw at me.

tpZjI.jpg

could you quote that image please?
Other than that, it looks simple but great.
PS: You screwed up on the reflection for the ESPN tab (;

Quoted because IceDoesntHelp is a party pooper.
I am not, take that back ):
 

z0m3le

Banned
^ If the CPU does have access to it, I'd like to believe any little bit extra would help.



It's plausible. The original target was 32MB and wsippel said he was told some of the targets were increased.



I can see that scenario. If I put a range on it it would be Wii U .9-1.2 TFLOPs and Xbox 3 1.2-1.5 TFLOPs. I'm still kind of in denial about the 6670 rumor, but it would be in line with MSNerd's rumor.

yeah, I don't really understand them basing the gpu around a 6670, but a custom part can easily achieve a much higher performance level, so maybe it had something it was targeting, and yes those are my same flop estimates, though I tend to think that they started a little bit lower and worked up around the max at the end... it will be very interesting, because if microsoft puts out an HD tablet controller, the difference in performance could be completely nil or even in Wii U's favor.
 
On paper, some components (you can guess which) are mathematically 4 or 5 times more powerful, more in quantity/number, than in the xbox360, but it does not translate for the moment in 5x prettier images, with 5 more complex and finest scenes, etc.

That brings up the question of what 5 times prettier means to those people. Samaritan looks 3 times better than Xbox 360 games to me. It might look 6 times better to another observer.
 

royalan

Member
1 - To retain my sources who are obviously under NDA and not put them in difficulty, I will not quote them. Also, I love this sector, and a large part of the presentation impact of a new hardware at E3 and other shows depend on the respect by all the actors of the confidentiality of important information, such as power and therefore what a console is capable of displaying. I do not want to spoil this momentum that Nintendo is building for the E3. For all these reasons, I will stay more or less evasive, but I can give some news that are not huge revelations. They are rather positive and interesting, I hope that they will nurture the constructive debates around here, and put an end to bad speculations on the console I've read here lately. I want somehow to participate in the buzz that will gradually be built around the Wii U, and I think that Nintendo public relation guys should be more active on geek boards like this one, to counter when it’s necessary, some rumors that dampen seriously the enthusiasm of hardcore gamers, who could then relay these bad vibrations to fellow gamers in their circles. The “just on par with xbox360” drama has even spread to french forums, so it can’t hurt to deny it fast.

I've been saying this since the Gamecube days. Nintendo could stand to be a bit more hands-on with the gaming community. Really get their hands dirty. Part of the reason MS became so dominant so quickly with the Xbox was not just because they threw tons of money at the industry (although that's a huge part of it), but because they really engaged the community early. Nintendo's getting better (with things like Iwata Asks series), but it would be nice to see them comment more often on the state of their hardware and software more on the community level. Really cut some bad rumors off at the pass.

So, from what my sources saw on their screens, they clearly stated that they experienced superior capabilities in comparison to the Xbox360. This is the positive aspect of my info: you can be sure that the Wii U is not on par with current gen HD. You can remove this idea from your heads, and stop speculating about it, it will not happen. The point more negative now: On the power scale, they told me that it’s closer to 2x Xbox360 than 5x. On paper, some components (you can guess which) are mathematically 4 or 5 times more powerful, more in quantity/number, than in the xbox360, but it does not translate for the moment in 5x prettier images, with 5 more complex and finest scenes, etc.

This is great news to me. And the fact that the Wii U has more powerful components than the real-world performance they're seeing now could mean that there's room to really open up the console over time. IdeaMan's sources also aren't programmers/artists, just people who have come in contact with the results of the kit-work for whatever studio this is. So if a layman's able to look at the screen and say "wow, that's like twice what the 360 could do!" there's a good chance that the hardware is capable of a lot more. I won't get ahead of myself, but it's looking like the Wii U will reach some level of parity with whatever's coming next from MS and Sony.

Thanks for taking the time to engage us and share some of your insight, IdeaMan! Even though it's nothing concrete, it's nice whenever we get comments from people who have connections to the industry and Nintendo's hardware, even when the news isn't always great (Arkam).
 

DCKing

Member
2x is again exactly what we got from earlier devkit information... The RV770LE in earlier devkits, if it was true at all, did slightly over 2x the performance (~2.3x) of the Xenos chip. If you downclock an HD7770 (just as an example because it represents current AMD tech) to the Xenos clock rate of 500 MHz, you get exactly double the performance in many areas simply because it has double the capacity in terms of texture units and render output units. Furthermore, it could vastly outperform Xenos in shading power, by simply having much more (HD7770 has 3-3.5 amount of shaders) and being a more efficient architecture. Which explains this "4-5x" figure.

What puzzles me is that Arkam claims indicating the devkit was less powerful than the Xbox. If Nintendo uses a chip like that, it should be obvious to anybody that it makes itself a decent gap when compared to the 360. It seems to suggest that something else was used in the devkit, likely a Redwood or Turks GPU (which improve in shader performance over Xenos, but not much in other areas). After all the rumours we've heard I would be very disappointed if Nintendo went for such a low end chip. If Nintendo would go to lengths to customize a chip based on new technology, solely benchmarked by a seven-year old GPU, then we can definitely conclude that they stopped caring about power.
 

guek

Banned
That brings up the question of what 5 times prettier means to those people. Samaritan looks 3 times better than Xbox 360 games to me. It might look 6 times better to another observer.

Samaritan borders the line between really good looking PC game and a really mediocre CG movie. Neither really impresses me, but I'd like to see a similar engine in the hands of better artists.
 

pestul

Member
It sounds an awful lot like the system will have a bit of untapped power for the 2nd generation of titles. I can't wait to see 1st party games on a Nintendo machine anything close to that power. :S
 
So here's my UI design - question is whether this will display on the controller, TV or both.
The idea is similar to previous Nintendo UI designs - each app or game is represented by each of these windows. The idea is you wipe left and right to select an application. Tapping on the NN logo will bring up an entirely new screen overlaid on top, which will show you all your current NN connectivities and accounts etc. for easy sign-in/out to different accounts, management of friends, requests, data, stats and of course, game connectivity between friends, including video chat and messaging services.
At the top right you can see 3 icons - Browser, purchases/currently downloading software (which will glow a steady blue if something is downloading) and settings, respectively.
The idea for the UI was to keep it simple, elegant and easy to use. By reducing the number of steps it took to get to different apps and elements of the design, users can enjoy increased fluidity between actions.
Games/apps can be downloading whilst you play, and you will receive a notification upon completion. Increased RAM also means you will be able to refer back to the home screen a la 3DS/iOS, to launch the browser, other non demanding apps or check the NN network.
The idea is for this to act as an unobtrusive 'hub' rather than a dedicated menu. Ease of use and accessibility are a must to fit in with the controller's concept of keeping game elements away from the big screen.

Comments and criticism welcome, and sorry about the horrible compression artefacts imgur threw at me.



Quoted because IceDoesntHelp is a party pooper.

I think it be more closer to 3DS in fact I hope it is "just more easy to take thing off"

oh and i really hate all this POWER BS we know more with spics
 
Yeah, as explained in my first message, the V4 dev kit has already received the boost in power that the net talked about. Now, it doesn't exclude the possibility that the rumored V5 or any more advanced dev kit in the hands of Nintendo and First-Party for the moment represent another hardware upgrade. It's quite believable. The question is whether it's another big jump in capabilities (an increase of the ram, the frequency of some parts, etc.), a small one, or just optimization (that still could results in better performances).




So it's theoricaly 5x more powerful, but they only push real 2x ?
(Je suis français aussi)
 
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