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[UncleSporky]

Really? I think it's pretty clear that this game would work absolutely flawlessly with the Wii-mote. It certainly feels as if it were designed for it.

Are you kidding? People would bitch and moan endlessly about using the pointer to control the camera in third person.

It'd be the same thread all over again begging for Classic Controller dual analog.

 

[Skiesofwonder]

Played about 3 hours of it from gamefly.

Honestly think this game is an embarassment control wise.

The only reason I didn't send it back after 20 minutes was my insomnia that night + how hilarious I thought it was.

Just the typical nintendo MO, make something potentially good/great and than jam bullshit controls into it to kneecap the poor thing. Best examples would be their wii platformers where inconsistent waggle detection made things that should be button presses a complete pain in the ass.

I disagree here. First of all, Kid Icarus provides plenty enough control schemes for a right-hander to find his/her own comfort zone with the game. Though I will agree that there is a steep learning curve and I can see how some people would turned off by that, but classifying something as embarrassing because it doesn't click from the beginning is going a little overboard IMO. The control scheme works, and works really damn well. Even for a left-hander like me. It's just hard to get a grasp around how to play it and that does come off as very un-Nintendo.

As for other Nintendo games, I'm guessing you're talking about NSMB Wii, Super Mario Galaxy 1-2, and Donkey Kong Country Returns. Um, those games really can't have simpler or more intuitive control schemes. Just because you don't like "waggling" doesn't mean it doesn't work. I've 100% every single one of those games and will testify that those controls work 100% of the time. Yeah, it would be nice to have the options to assign those commands to a button. The more options the better! But to say that they somehow kneecap the games is crazy talk.

 

[dark10x]

Are you kidding? People would bitch and moan endlessly about using the pointer to control the camera in third person.

It'd be the same thread all over again begging for Classic Controller dual analog.

I don't recall people demanding options for Sin and Punishment 2. Kid Icarus requires a bit of additional motion, but there are ways to solve this to allow for a more comfortable experience.

A 60 fps Wii version of the game would be excellent.

It wouldn't hurt them to include dual analog controls, though. That would push me to pick up a CPP for the 3DS, actually, as I think the game would be much more enjoyable that way.

 

[UncleSporky]

All the positive buzz around this game really made me want to pick up a 3DS and dive (soar?) in, but I'm left handed and none of the control schemes have looked suited for me, so I'm still holding off for a Nintendo redesign.

You should jump in! There are at least 5 lefties at GAF that got used to the control scheme easily, myself included. I'd guess there are 10+ but I remember reading at least 5 accounts. We seem to be able to adjust to the controls just as quickly as right handed people.

 

[Skilletor]

I have problems with the globe camera. I just can't get it to spin right. It's either too slow or too fast or I go too far, or not far enough. It makes close range/melee impossible for me. I also have issues with the dash thing. I often can't dash when I want to or dash when I don't want to. I'm constantly fighting with the controls just to move Pit.

But a lot of other people seem to just have issues with comfort.
Comfort isn't an issue for me. But I have small hands.

I have the same issues as you regarding the controls, but comfort is an issue as well.

I'm hoping the CCP makes the system more comfortable to hold with the increase in size.

 

[The Technomancer]

No it shouldn't. because they're fine. I got used to them within a few chapters and now they're second nature.

 

[dark10x]

At least we can all come together and agree that the controls are better than anything available for Kinect.

 

[muu]

Those with bigger hands should be using grips to compensate for the size of the 3DS. "but it's fundamentally flawed it doesnt fit my hands?" The target demographic won't be able to use the thing comfortably if it's made expressly for the minority audience, not to mention affect the portability of the thing. One size fits all is a myth (I can rarely find hats/helmets that fit my size), and complaining about it isn't going to change that. Then again, I guess it's your call on whether or not saving 10 bucks to miss out on one of the best games this year is a good idea.

Just for reference: game is reasonably holding by itself, very comfortable w/ $10 grip, and I get handcramps from hell in 5 mins with the CPP. I use my right pinky to help support the system which helps a TON in terms of comfort. The right-heavy design of the CPP makes pinky holding while using the stylus impossible, which accounts for my cramps.

 

[The Technomancer]

Yes, of course, the people complaining are "playing it wrong", because it works for you it must not be an issue.

Its the same thing with Skyward Sword. I also would have liked video of people playing that game to see if they weren't misunderstanding something fundamental that would make it easier.

 

[Refreshment.01]

Oddly enough, the original release of Snake Eater didn't really take advantage of dual analogs. I'm still baffled as to why they didn't use the original fixed camera angles for the 3DS version. Would have worked better than the solution they came up with.

Thanks for correcting me, i forgot about it But then they released a dual analog version. Yea, i wonder how would have worked if they went with the original release or at least leave the option to play in both styles.

It's actually uncharacteristically poor hardware for Nintendo.

The original DS, even with its ugly phat design, was a very well thought out device with all of its elements playing into one another to create a cohesive, unique experience. The 3DS, on the other hand, has a serious identity problem. Many of its functions not only fail to compliment one another but actually detract from the experience when used in conjunction. Thanks to the 3D screen, direct touch interaction in games becomes limited (many DS games used the touchscreen as their main game screen while that is almost never true with 3DS). Motion sensing is also at odds with the 3D as it breaks the illusion while using it. Then you have the stylus positioning (which is in a difficult place to reach comparatively) and the whole second analog stick thing.

The DS and the Wii were very elegant machines while the 3DS feels incomplete almost as if everything about the design was sacrificed in order to include 3D.

But don't you get it, Nintendo is bigger than any of us. They don't make mistakes and in the event that they could, we shouldn't complaint or raise valid criticism

Those with bigger hands should be using grips to compensate for the size of the 3DS. "but it's fundamentally flawed it doesnt fit my hands?" The target demographic won't be able to use the thing comfortably if it's made expressly for the minority audience, not to mention affect the portability of the thing. One size fits all is a myth (I can rarely find hats/helmets that fit my size), and complaining about it isn't going to change that. Then again, I guess it's your call on whether or not saving 10 bucks to miss out on one of the best games this year is a good idea.

True, but the ergonomic problem has only been magnified with the DS and 3DS. Without Nintendo taking any measures to improve the situation.

A well executed CPP would be awesome for so many reasons.

 

[botty]

The controls for this game are bad, anyone who says otherwise is lying. However, you can get used to them. Sakurai did make the games difficulty adjustable, so those who have trouble with the controls can still enjoy it... somewhat. I just don't recommend going online often.

 

[Tunic]

I only have issues with the controls if I am not using the provided stand with the game. I tried playing without it and it definitely puts a big strain on my hands and fingers even after just playing one chapter. I don't even have to use the stand on a table as I find it easier just holding the stand with the 3DS fully in my hands.

 

[The Technomancer]

The controls for this game are bad, anyone who says otherwise is lying. However, you can get used to them. Sakurai did make the games difficulty adjustable, so those who have trouble with the controls can still enjoy it... somewhat. I just don't recommend going online often.

No. They're not. Not for me. They would be "bad" if even after getting used to them I was fighting to do what I want. They have a fucking learning curve.

 

[ZeroGravity]

I'm pretty much in the same boat. I really, really want to play this game, but the controls have completely scared me away. I couldn't play Metroid Prime Hunters at all because of its controls, and I'm not going to throw away money to be stuck doing that again.

 

[Relix]

I think it's time to compare hand sizes. How anyone can say its comfortable must have tiny hands cuz... damn.

 

[UncleSporky]

Its the same thing with Skyward Sword. I also would have liked video of people playing that game to see if they weren't misunderstanding something fundamental that would make it easier.

Basically this for KI.

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

But don't you get it, Nintendo is bigger than any of us. They don't make mistakes and in the event that they could, we shouldn't complaint or raise valid criticism

You're the king of strawmen. That's all you ever post.

 

[Skiesofwonder]

Yeah the controls are a clusterfuck. 2+ hours in and... ugh. I have hand cramps FFS. Big handed guys will have issues with the game, especially since the 3DS is such a piece of crap ergonomically. I like the game a lot, but the controls are a disaster. I honestly like them for the flight sections (aside from the hand issues) but on foot? God damn what an amazing clusterfuck. I dread going to the ground and fighting more than 3 enemies at once.

Such a shame, the game has amazing potential. If you have big hands, don't buy the game. Really. I shouldn't have to buy an accessory to play a game comfortable, even more so a handheld game.

I suggest playing with the stand. It does wonders for people like us. I also had that problem with Mario Kart when playing long sessions. But I don't see how that can really be a strong argument for a handheld game considering every handheld has that problem. The PS Vita wants me to keep my back fingers on this tiny little pad behind to system so I don't touch the rear pad. My hands already engulf the thing (like they do with my 3DS and Iphone) so how the hell do you expect me to crunch my hands up in that tiny little area? It makes playing Fifa the superior way almost impossible. Like I said earlier, Mario Kart 7 hurts my hands, and any racing game on the Iphone is uncomfortable as hell for me.

Hopefully Nintendo releases a 3DS XL like they did with the DSi. It did wonders. As for console controllers, the ones that are really comfortable for me are Xbox 360 and Classic Controller Pro. But honestly the Wiimote and Chuck are the best answer. Two one-hand controllers for the fricken win!!!! Makes me sad about the Wii-U Pad, but at least it's BIG!!! Hopefully Xbox 720 adapts the two one-hand controllers for Kinect, would be awesome.

/Controller rant.

 

[RyougaSaotome]

Honestly, I love the precision in which you can turn the camera and stop it. This is especially true online.

I get that there are people having issues with the controls, but I've had none. I also have yet to take the stand out of the box. There's just been no need for it.

 

[Skilletor]

You're the king of strawmen. That's all you ever post.

No different than the people who are saying the controls are fine and anybody who has problems with them must be doing it wrong.

 

[eXistor]

I would agree if I'd only put a few hours in it as well. After that the controls start to click and you really get why they chose it. Not saying it couldn't be better, but you really get used to them and start to kinda love them.

 

[Gravijah]

I think it's time to compare hand sizes. How anyone can say its comfortable must have tiny hands cuz... damn.

having small/average hands doesn't suddenly make it comfortable. trust me on this.

 

[zroid]

At least we can all come together and agree that the controls are better than anything available for Kinect.

hear hear!

 

[Shaheed79]

The ground controls threw me off at first. Then I went to options and turned the horizontal sensitivity all they way up. This made turning on the ground levels 10x easier.

Just to make sure I got use to the controls I decided to play the first 3 levels over and over again on higher intensity levels until my strafing, dodge shot technique and aiming became second nature.

The game is soooooo much more fun if you spend the extra time to master the controls before moving on past level 4. I was surprised at the amount of advanced techniques Sakurai implemented in the game with such simple control inputs.

I was expecting something just unmanageable after reading the destructoid review. I'm glad I didn't fully trust there opinion, due to them hinting that they didn't even complete the game, and decided to purchase it. I'm even more happy that they just sucked at the controls of the game, and the controls became second nature with a slight adjustment and some practice.

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

No different than the people who are saying the controls are fine and anybody who has problems with them must be doing it wrong.

Those other guys do it, so it's perfectly fine for me to do it too.

(HINT: Nobody's saying what you said either. They're saying it's possible though, or that there's some major difference in handling the system that could factor in. Plus, what you said is not a logical fallacy, it's merely a blind opinion.)

 

[muu]

I only have issues with the controls if I am not using the provided stand with the game. I tried playing without it and it definitely puts a big strain on my hands and fingers even after just playing one chapter. I don't even have to use the stand on a table as I find it easier just holding the stand with the 3DS fully in my hands.

Try using a pinky to add some support from your pen-holding hand. Unless you got tiny hands this should be easy to do, and will really, really help out w/ the cramping. I mean, what's happening is statics 101 -- if you hold w/ one hand only that becomes the focal point at the edge of a reasonably weighty lever.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Don't wanna hate, but I said in the OT that it should have been on Wii ...Nintendo wanted to focus on the 3DS though at this point and I understand that.

I don't see how Wii controls would make it better (think ground combat) unless you want lock-on, which would simplify the game too much.

 

[codhand]

This thread is basically people defining bad/not optimal controls, as a "learning curve", next it will be a feature.

 

[Relix]

I suggest playing with the stand. It does wonders for people like us. I also had that problem with Mario Kart when playing long sessions. But I don't see how that can really be a strong argument for a handheld game considering every handheld has that problem. The PS Vita wants me to keep my back fingers on this tiny little pad behind to system so I don't touch the rear pad. My hands already engulf the thing (like they do with my 3DS and Iphone) so how the hell do you expect me to crunch my hands up in that tiny little area? It makes playing Fifa the superior way almost impossible. Like I said earlier, Mario Kart 7 hurts my hands, and any racing game on the Iphone is uncomfortable as hell for me.

Hopefully Nintendo releases a 3DS XL like they did with the DSi. It did wonders. As for console controllers, the ones that are really comfortable for me are Xbox 360 and Classic Controller Pro. But honestly the Wiimote and Chuck are the best answer. Two one-hand controllers for the fricken win!!!! Makes me sad about the Wii-U Pad, but at least it's BIG!!! Hopefully Xbox 720 adapts the two one-hand controllers for Kinect, would be awesome.

/Controller rant.

Yeah the stand is useful but at the same time its bad for your back and shoulders. You are hunched and your shoulders are in a fixed position. I just tried using it as well. Hell I am trying everything ! I wish the ground controls used the face buttons as camera and allowed you to shoot with R. I have a bigger problem with ground controls than flight controls.

EDIT: Checked options and found something similar to what I just said lol. Lemme see how it works

 

[Refreshment.01]

You're the king of strawmen. That's all you ever post.

Not true at all, that post was a joke of course and i apologize. But all of my comments are backed by reasonable explanations. You are just personally attacking me. Look how i did that jab post without addressing anyone in particular, but it is an attitude usually present in these threads (the one that Nintendo is always right) that is.

Just look at how the thread progressed. There's lot of complaints around the controls and it ergonomic issues.

 

[The Technomancer]

Try using a pinky to add some support from your pen-holding hand. Unless you got tiny hands this should be easy to do, and will really, really help out w/ the cramping. I mean, what's happening is statics 101 -- if you hold w/ one hand only that becomes the focal point at the edge of a reasonably weighty lever.

...how are people using their stylus hand? Are people using the base of their palm to support the 3DS the way I do?

 

[UncleSporky]

This thread is basically people defining bad/not optimal controls, as a "learning curve", next it will be a feature.

It's basically people unwilling to give any control scheme that is slightly untraditional a chance to click, and/or people who have not played parroting what others have said.

Also drive-bys like yourself.

 

[codhand]

It's basically people unwilling to give any control scheme that is slightly untraditional a chance to click,

Also drive-bys like yourself.

So should I have paid more than 39.99 to give it a chance then?

EDIT paid 29.99 = best buy.

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

Not true at all, that post was a joke of course and i apologize. But all of my comments are backed by reasonable explanations. You are just personally attacking me. Look how i did that jab post without addressing anyone in particular, but it is an attitude usually present in these threads (the one that Nintendo is always right) that is.

It's a joke and you totally weren't serious, but it's also true because of those silly Nintendo fanboys. Thanks for proving my point.

Your entire argument this thread has been a strawman. I'm not attacking you, I'm attacking your ridiculous perspective on the people you're debating with. You constantly attribute attitudes and foist opinions upon your opponents that don't exist.

So should I have paid more than 39.99 to give it a chance then?

Playing it for yourself before forming an opinion on the issue would be a good start.

 

[The Technomancer]

This thread is basically people defining bad/not optimal controls, as a "learning curve", next it will be a feature.

I'm really curious how this type of game could have had more optimal controls for the camera and the reticule without using the stylus. Dual analog would not work.

 

[UncleSporky]

So should I have paid more than 39.99 to give it a chance then?

You should have paid $30 and gotten the 3D Classic bonus game as well.

 

[Tom_Cody]

This thread is basically people defining bad/not optimal controls, as a "learning curve", next it will be a feature.

WTF, have you played the game? The controls are ideal for the gameplay once you adjust to them.

This thread is crazy town.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Actually, technically it does, because I'll never play it solely because of its controls.

It's a real shame to think some are passing up such a great game because they read that for some people the controls take a little getting used to.

 

[evilromero]

I really don't understand why the flying segments don't control like Star Fox 64, which is still one of the best controlled shooters. I'm also left handed, which means I'll be forced to suffer through this awkwardness.

 

[Shaheed79]

You always know who are going to be in a topic like this bashing the 3DS as a whole before you even click on the topic. Being that predictable is never a good thing gentlemen.

 

[Skiesofwonder]

Its the same thing with Skyward Sword. I also would have liked video of people playing that game to see if they weren't misunderstanding something fundamental that would make it easier.

Not really. Skyward Sword controls were much more intuitive then Uprising's controls will ever be. Some people just couldn't grasp the thought that you actually had to use proper and precise movements with the controller instead of waggling everything to death.

Even as a left-hander the controls worked from the beginning because all it really requires is small but precise wrist or arm movements from your right hand/arm. Using a pen or pencil in your inferior hand is a totally different ballgame.

 

[Refreshment.01]

It's a joke and you totally weren't serious, but it's also true because of those silly Nintendo fanboys. Thanks for proving my point.

Your entire argument this thread has been a strawman. I'm not attacking you, I'm attacking your ridiculous perspective on the people you're debating with. You constantly attribute attitudes and foist opinions upon your opponents that don't exist.

You keep mentioning "strawman" but haven't mentioned which one it is.

It's a fact people are having more problems than usual controlling the game. There have been a lot more emphasis on controlling issues with this Nintendo release, be it from reviews or user experiences. The strawman only lies in your hurt ego, so sorry for that i guess.

 

[muu]

This thread is basically people defining bad/not optimal controls, as a "learning curve", next it will be a feature.

and that's never happened with any new control scheme? Dual analog controls are flawed, and those of us from PC land had to adapt to the limitations the controls present. Yes I am comfortable using them for most games now, but I still avoid non-military FPS's on consoles as aiming ahead w/ rockets or keeping a laser trained on an opposing team for several seconds while they jump around is extremely cumbersome for me using analog controls.

The only difference between those FPS's and KI's situation I believe, is that mass exodus from the PC games market forced a lot of people to adopt dual analog controls while implementations like KI/Metroid Hunters are rare one-offs. Both are perfectly adaptable for most people, but unless it becomes a de facto standard the common double standard of gamers -- no wait, of everyone, with pretty much everything -- to wish for innovation (and yes, dual analogs was an innovation too -- who woulda thought you could get a shooter experience sitting on your couch?!) while bashing the fucking bejesus out of it until it becomes commonplace.

 

[StAidan]

...how are people using their stylus hand? Are people using the base of their palm to support the 3DS the way I do?

I'm a lefty using the default right-handed controls, and I usually hook my right pinky behind the 3DS to keep it steady.

Works for me with no stand, and the 3D on.

I had a hand cramp after my first play session, but no issues since then.

 

[StickSoldier]

Well, I guess I don't really have a problem with them anymore, just took like 30 minutes. But of course, I'm right handed; I feel your pain bro.

 

[Skiesofwonder]

Yeah the stand is useful but at the same time its bad for your back and shoulders. You are hunched and your shoulders are in a fixed position. I just tried using it as well. Hell I am trying everything ! I wish the ground controls used the face buttons as camera and allowed you to shoot with R. I have a bigger problem with ground controls than flight controls.

EDIT: Checked options and found something similar to what I just said lol. Lemme see how it works

Agreed, but some people say they can put a pillow on their lap with the stand on top and your hand weight automatically balances the stand. That would theoretically take all the strain off your back/shoulders. I still play it hunched over though lol.

And yeah, they have a ton of control options to explore. You just need to look for them. You can even try them out in the practice area Street Fighter-style which is nice.

 

[evilromero]

Not really. Skyward Sword controls were much more intuitive then Uprising's controls will ever be. Some people just couldn't grasp the thought that you actually had to proper and precise movements with the controller instead of waggling everything to death.

Even as a left-hander the controls worked from the beginning because all it really requires is small but precise wrist or arm movements from your right hand/arm. Using a pen or pencil in your inferior hand is a totally different ballgame.

I hate constantly recentering my sword in SS. For me the controls didn't break the game but it certainly didn't draw me in. I dropped out after the first or second sword upgrade. Can't remember.

 

[codhand]

and that's never happened with any new control scheme? Dual analog controls are flawed, and those of us from PC land had to adapt to the limitations the controls present. Yes I am comfortable using them for most games now, but I still avoid non-military FPS's on consoles as aiming ahead w/ rockets or keeping a laser trained on an opposing team for several seconds while they jump around is extremely cumbersome for me using analog controls.

The only difference between those FPS's and KI's situation I believe, is that mass exodus from the PC games market forced a lot of people to adopt dual analog controls while implementations like KI/Metroid Hunters are rare one-offs. Both are perfectly adaptable for most people, but unless it becomes a de facto standard the common double standard of gamers -- no wait, of everyone, with pretty much everything -- to wish for innovation (and yes, dual analogs was an innovation too -- who woulda thought you could get a shooter experience sitting on your couch?!) while bashing the fucking bejesus out of it until it becomes commonplace.

Stylus is a "new control scheme"? If these controls are so fantastic, I'm sure we will start seeing "globe-spin" cameras on all new Nintendo properties.

I'm really curious how this type of game could have had more optimal controls for the camera and the reticule without using the stylus. Dual analog would not work.

I agree, the problem was the initial design requiring precise/fast, aiming/shooting. This is the best setup the game can get. I play on default controls, with dat grip.

 

[Trancetronic]

After a single chapter of adjustment, I haven't had any problems with it. *shrug*

Yeah once you get use to it it's awesome. I tried the buttons and it just didn't work for me. I just adjusted the reticle speed and it clicked. I now rank 2nd place in Free For All matches online

 

[codhand]

Yeah once you get use to it it's awesome. I tried the buttons and it just didn't work for me. I just adjusted the reticle speed and it clicked. I now rank 2nd place in Free For All matches online

Guys don't worry about controls, the second best player in the world says they are just fine.

EDIT, wait you mean 2nd place in each match?