I'm not sure you'd get much learning done in a school where everybody wore their political opinions on the front of their shirts. I'm in favour of standardised school uniforms.
Agreed. Its the best compromise.
I'm not sure you'd get much learning done in a school where everybody wore their political opinions on the front of their shirts. I'm in favour of standardised school uniforms.
This thread is kind of odd to read. Do people really think they can say whatever they want at a school just because of freedom of speech? If you were at a restaurant and started throwing out racial slurs, do you really think they're not going to throw you out because of freedom of speech?
This thread is kind of odd to read. Do people really think they can say whatever they want at a school just because of freedom of speech? If you were at a restaurant and started throwing out racial slurs, do you really think they're not going to throw you out because of freedom of speech?
This doesn't seem even mildly shocking in Canada, I think again this is an issue with a lot of people in the states because of how big of a deal freedom of speech is there.
First of all, on school grounds what constitutes uniform is almost entirely up to a school. With situations like this? If a shirt is intended to offend people, or insult people - then it will not be allowed. This is in the same vein as calling out any other group of people - if it were a shirt that something like "Asians are going to hell" - you better BELIEVE he would be asked to remove it, or be suspended for it.
Being intenionally incendiary is not tolerated, simple as that. And that judgement call is made across the country every day. My highschool had uniforms, but we also had dress down days. One of those days a student wore a shirt that said "Fuck you" - he was asked to change it.
Students said William Swinimer has been preaching and making them feel uncomfortable, and the shirt was the last straw so they complained.
Anyone actually reading the article? Clearly his father is a major wacko and the behaviour will continue.
Christians loves feeling like victims anyway
If he's proselytizing that might be one thing, but that shirt is no worse than anything an atheist might wear.
This doesn't seem even mildly shocking in Canada, I think again this is an issue with a lot of people in the states because of how big of a deal freedom of speech is there.
Anyway, it seems lately the crazy religious base in Canada has been getting antsy and is testing the limits of public acceptance. Our local transit system has come under fire recently for accepting and putting up religious propaganda in the form of advertisements. It's kind of awkward when you walk into the subway, a public space, and see an ad that declares "There Is No God But Allah". Then there's the Christian ads that give "advice" to troubled kids in the form of "suck it up and pray".
Where is this? I vaguely remember being in Toronto during an atheist ad push. In my town, we used to have this really obnoxious anti-abortion ads on our buses as well but haven't seen them for awhile.
Yeah, aside from Christian's looking for a fight, I can't see this story making any real impact in Canadian news.
Where is this? I vaguely remember being in Toronto during an atheist ad push. In my town, we used to have this really obnoxious anti-abortion ads on our buses as well but haven't seen them for awhile.
It's in Toronto. The Muslim one is new (some Hindu organization got upset about that if I remember correct) but the Christian ones have been around for a while. Mostly like "Bible verse of the day! Remember, no matter how fucked up shit gets, pray".
Would that be acceptable though? Can a preacher just go into a school during recess and preach? At my uni this is forbidden.
Though with his behaviour I don't think the kind of activity really matters, if he's harassing people.
You'd think there would be better things for them to spend their money on. I really can't see these ads accomplishing anything.
I ask because the article isn't clear what "preaching" means. Was he harassing random students in the hallway? Was he standing on a cafeteria table preaching fire and brimstone to the whole student body? Or did he make his religious views his main topic of conversation with other students? Because that could be construed as "preaching." I'm not sure if I'd discipline a student just because they can't shut up about their religion (or political views) outside of class.
I don't recall him getting in trouble beyond the principal being all "Son, I am disapoint".The fictional Jesus guy did get in trouble so I'm not really sure what your point is.
You'd think there would be better things for them to spend their money on. I really can't see these ads accomplishing anything.
Then quite frankly, US school speech laws are antagonistic to the goal of creating a safe environment to learn in.Freedom of speech is generally understood to follow the idea that your right to free speech ends when your speech drowns out others rights to not be assaulted with explicitly vulgar language. Even the US doesn't just allow you to scream obscenities. School speech is further restrained but not as much that a shirt like this would be very problematic.
My guess? He was bothering people about this in one way or another a lot, and they got a lot of complaints - but as long as he isn't passing around flyers in the hallway, they can't really do much about it - or they'd avoid doing something about it because it could easily become a he said she said thing. A shirt? Uniform infraction, easy peasy.
The school even went out of it's way to have some voluntary seminars on how to discuss and share your personal beliefs in a non-offensive, respectful way - and THAT pissed him off too, he said something about "School should only be about math and english, not this... seminar bullshit! I aint coming back till it's gone!" mind you, I may have done a little ad libbing there.
yup, even though i'm not personally offended by it, i see the t-shirt less as an announcement of his own religion and more of a denouncement of other people's lack of/different religion.I thought the shirt was taking a subtle jab at christianity, as in, you will be drunk and partying all the time if you are not a traditional christian. Hence wasted being in such large, extravagant letters.
The US is smart enough to know the shirt isn;t a danger to anyone. You would have to be looking straight at his chest to even read the thing.Then quite frankly, US school speech laws are antagonistic to the goal of creating a safe environment to learn in.
I was actually really disappointed in how you compared this shirt to anti-war protest shirts. Completely different intents and effects on the surrounding students.
stop.So you can dress up as Jesus for "Come as a Fictional Character Day" and get an award (if I remember the story right), but if you wear a shirt without the mockery then you get in trouble?
Then quite frankly, US school speech laws are antagonistic to the goal of creating a safe environment to learn in.
I was actually really disappointed in how you compared this shirt to anti-war protest shirts. Completely different intents and effects on the surrounding students.
Eh? I'm a atheist and I have no problem with him wearing that shirt.
My question...would they have an issue with a shirt that had a depiction of evolution on it
Absolutely not, and this is not a nuance you and I tend to butt heads on.I think this response indicates a CONTENT based restriction - That is, you don't like what the shirt says, therefore it shouldn't be allowed, as opposed to an anti-war protest which you may agree with and thus should be tolerated.
The begrudging, reluctant acceptance in this thread is hilarious.
"Sigh...let the cultists wear what they will."
"eh...I guess he can do that if he wants to advertise his small-mindedness."
"grumble...I guess him being allowed to display his stupidity like this is ok."
Well then. He should stop preaching, then he can wear his shirt.
Absolutely not, and this is not a nuance you and I tend to butt heads on.
Anti-war shirts are a statement of opinion - that a war is wrong.
The tshirt in this story is more than that. It's a statement that anyone who isn't Christian is leading a completely invalid, worthless life. I honestly see little principle difference between that shirt and one that would say "black people should be hanged" - that's still not incitement, but its intent and effect is clear enough.
Yes, you can argue "don't look at the shirt", but you only have to see it once accidentally to know it's there. That is a threatening presence.
As the school pointed out, simply affixing "my" to the beginning of the shirt slogan would change the meaning and effect completely.
Maybe you still feel I'm protesting content here. I honestly feel I am not. There are better ways to put across the intellectual content of Jesus making his life worth living that would not upset others.
I'm not sure you'd get much learning done in a school where everybody wore their political opinions on the front of their shirts. I'm in favour of standardised school uniforms.
Why does the WASTED on the shirt have the spooky lettering with the inconsistent drop shadow? Why is Without Jesus in significantly smaller print? I hate this shirt and it has nothing to do with religion.
So you can dress up as Jesus for "Come as a Fictional Character Day" and get an award (if I remember the story right), but if you wear a shirt without the mockery then you get in trouble?
fucking attention whores.