Damn! I was expecting much... but still... </3
He's using a... hairpin?
BY2K said:
They wanted to do Symphonia for PSP, not for 3DS.
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Namco Bandai Has A "Surprise" For Tales of Fans In The West [Up: Japan Expo]
- Thread starter ULTROS!
- Start date
Damn! I was expecting much... but still... </3
He's using a... hairpin?
They wanted to do Symphonia for PSP, not for 3DS.
Hero of Legend
Member
How realistic is it for Namco to try and do NA/EU-exclusive Nintendo versions? They do really well on Sony systems in Japan, but in NA when done proper, can prosper on Nintendo's.
Ports aren't cheap though, but surely they can find a winning formula?
Graces would've been the ultimate test if they'd released both versions.
You got ToS2 a much lower budget game and cheaper too that sold nearly as much as Vesperia, AND Abyss 3DS wasn't too far behind Graces f (though still not that good) when it was a port of a 6-year-old PS2 game on a system that's just over a year-old, compared to the PS3's nearly 6-year-old lifespan and dedicated JRPG fanbase.
They wanted to port an game that was originally on a Nintendo console to a Sony handheld, but instead ported a game that was originally on a Sony console to a Nintendo handheld?
How the fuck does Namco works!?
A Black Falcon
Member
If Namco isn't even going to bother to release any of the three DS games here, why would they do something smart like that?
But yeah, they should have done that. In particular, I think a Gamecube version of Abyss could have done well... certainly better than Abyss PS2, or Baten Kaitos Origins, did, anyway.
Hero of Legend
Member
Why didn't they just port the PS2 version to PSP?
I'm not sure if you're serious, but the reason Symphonia demolished all the others in sales is rather simple - it was the only one that received any marketing. Nintendo and Scamco pushed that game hard. There were TV ads, magazine ads, store promotions, and more. None of the following Tales games got that push, and there's no reason to believe any future Tales games will either. So I kind of doubt just making western exclusive Nintendo ports will somehow make these games sell 500k in the west again.
Hero of Legend
Member
Tempest was said to be the worst game, not sure about why Innocence didn't make it, and Hearts... don't they have a problem with localizing 2D Tales games?
It's funny that Hearts was trademarked in NA I think not too long ago, what if they're doing an eShop-localization? *sniff*
They trademarked both Tales of Hearts, and Tales of Innocence recently. One of those has been released on Vita, with the other rumored to be.
Hero of Legend
Member
I know it was Nintendo that helped Symphonia, but that is probably why the series seems to have better luck in comparison on Nintendo platforms. I'm not trying to force anything here.
I do recall now that the ending of Innocence may have hinted that.
Hero of Legend
Member
ShockingAlberto mentioned this in the Smash thread that Nintendo's trying to get Namco to make the next main title on Wii U, not sure if it's Xillia 2 or an exclusive. Fingers crossed for Symphonia 3 with Vesperia's graphics, got Xillia/2 to me pales in comparison.
Edit: Whoops.
Seven Force
Banned
I wouldn't really use the trademarks as a solid indication of anything. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Innocence get trademarked way back in '07?
grandjedi6
Master of the Google Search
I'm not sure thats the best way to look at the Tales series's sales potential. Almost all of the Tales games so far have sold roughly the same in the US despite differences in platform, timing of release and competition. The Tales series seems to have a small yet very dedicated fanbase that will give the series a minimum sales threshold. However the series doesn't sell well beyond those rough 60-80ks, at least not without a bigger marketing push.
And it really does just come down to marketing. A good example is Phantasia GBA, a crappy port that came out after the DS launch and when NoA was trying to actively kill the GBA. Yet its one of the better selling Tales of titles out there. Why? Because Nintendo published it and gave it both a marketing push and a push onto retail space. The same could be said of Vesperia and Symphonia 2, both of which were released under near perfect conditions and got substantial marketing for the series. Thus they managed to sell 2x the regular Tales sales threshold. But I'm not sure if that marketing push was profitable back then.
Innocence DS probably didn't make it because they were localizing both Tales of Vesperia and ToS
otNW at the time it would be localized, and it was probably an issue of resources.It was, which it what made them renewing the trademark odd.
grandjedi6
Master of the Google Search
They probably wanted to capitalize on that Symphonia OVA that was/is coming out and at that time the PSP was the only legitimate choice for a port (even if it didn't work).
And they wanted to port something to the 3DS quickly so they choose the best selling Tales game (in Japan) of that generation that had also just had an anime: Abyss.
Every Tales game had been trademarked in the US at one point or another. As far back as Rebirth in 2000 even.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
Symphonia had a pretty modest promotional campaign (pretty much just magazine/internet/in-store marketing), comparable to Abyss or Vesperia. There wasn't any TV advertising either, which Hometek was criticized over at the time since they did tv ads for Xenosaga.
Symphonia sold pretty much on positive word of mouth and a successful push by industry press (IGN especially). It did more it's first NPD than most Tales do lifetime.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
Er, Symphonia 2 got zero advertising or promotion. That turd was sold off name alone, everything pretty much went to Vesperia.
Phantasia didn't really get any campaign (except print ads in Nintendo Power) but Nintendo publishing that one probably helped it with retailers.
Abyss had great marketing (for the series) but still failed to deliver thanks to Scamco's amazing timing. I think both Abyss 3DS and Graces f would've done better if launched earlier. Actually stocking Abyss 3DS would've done wonders for it too.
A Black Falcon
Member
It's just pretty obvious that Namco has made many localization decisions based on Japanese sales, not Western sales, and the two have nothing in common. I mean, apart from Abyss GC -- which, as I said, I think would have done well, but they never made because Symphonia sold more on the PS2 than GC in Japan, so they ignored its good GC sales in the US -- there's also that decision to localize Tales of the World, but not either of the good DS Tales games. And no, I don't think timing is the reason. They didn't need to release them right away, plenty of games get localized a year or two after their original release. I expect the reason is Japanese sales, which shouldn't be the primary reasoning for localizing a game here, I think. DS Tales would certainly have sold more than 40,000.
I know Symphonia 2 didn't sell nearly as well as the first game, but still, given the lower review scores, and in comparison to everything else, it did alright, I think.
(Oh, is there anything about how Graces F or Abyss 3DS have done? I don't remember.)
That's not really true, the game released early in 2006, and while Nintendo was reducing GBA support that year for sure, versus previous years, and pushing the DS, they were still supporting the GBA. They released a few games that year, including Drill Dozer, Phantasia GBA, FFV Advance, and Pokemon Mystery Dungeon Red. Of course they did pass on some others, most notably the bit generations series and Mother 3, and then at the end of the year NCL forced NOA to kill off the GBA so the only first party release in '07 was FFVI Advance, but still, when Phantasia GBA released, NoA was still supporting both systems.
I agree with this though, the main reasons Phantasia GBA did sell somewhat decently, despite the poor quality of the port, is because Nintendo did push it, and published it themselves. I think they might have been expecting it to sell more (it did sell far less than Symphonia, for sure), but compared to the rest of that list it doesn't look so bad...
The Praiseworthy
Member
Can't believe ToGf didn't even break the 100K.... because the game had a good hype among the JRPG fans :\
Most of my JRPG fan friends were hyped for Graces F and each one of them bought a copy, some bought more than one copy :\
How can it be ONLY 63,931 :\
........ so not fair.
ToGf deserved to sells at less 150K.
Can't blame Namco if they really lost it with us.....
Most of my JRPG fan friends were hyped for Graces F and each one of them bought a copy, some bought more than one copy :\
How can it be ONLY 63,931 :\
........ so not fair.
ToGf deserved to sells at less 150K.
Can't blame Namco if they really lost it with us.....
clay_ghost
Member
I did my part. But it will sell more if there is a wii verison.
Tales game sell on Nintendo platform in the west.
Metallix87
Member
Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if Graces for Wii is localized. I don't expect it, but I wouldn't be surprised.
So, Graces F isn't so bad, absolutely, seeing brand history, and I dare to say Abyss is even good. I mean, porting on a console with a low install base compared to PS3/360, not advertised, with low shipments at launch. And IIRC it did half of Graces F's launch, which was around 20k. It's even showing some legs.
grandjedi6
Master of the Google Search
I remember a decent amount of advertising for DotNW, though it obviously wasn't as much of a focus as Vesperia was. I won't deny that it ran almost entirely on the Symphonia name though.
Hmm. Perhaps I'm misremembering how much NoA had abandoned the GBA by that point.
fixed
What. There is 0% of Graces for the Wii being localized at this point. It would be an incredibly shocking announcement at this point.
My apologies if you were being sarcastic.
Metallix87
Member
I'm not being sarcastic, and I agree it's HIGHLY unlikely, but given the numbers for Graces F, I think it's a possibility, albeit a slim one.
michaelius
Banned
Looking at those sales numbers - digital distribution which takes of the cost of priting discs and need to commit with x number of copies at first print is the only hope jRPG have in west.
SolidSnakex
Member
Eh? Companies like NISA and Atlus seem to be doing very well and their games sell aroud that amount (some sell more).
BassForever
Member
I wonder how well Graces would have done had it been released within a year of it's Japanese release with a marketing push/backing from Nintendo.
grandjedi6
Master of the Google Search
No one is going to announce new Wii projects at this point. If Namco decided against Graces Wii back when it had a decent chance, they're certainly not going to now that the sales have bottomed out for the system.
A Black Falcon
Member
That's true, it did, but it had some advertising. It was the first major Tales on a Nintendo console since Symphonia, too, so some were hoping for better sales than it got, but ultimately, looking at those numbers, it did pretty decently.
NCL had pretty much phased out the GBA by early '06, because in Japan the DS was adopted sooner so by '06 GBA sales were pretty much an asterisk, but in the US the transition went much slower. NOA was reluctant to phase out the GBA as a result, and only did it in Dec. '06-Jan.'07 because NCL made them, because they wanted to push the West towards the DS too. I'm pretty sure that's what happened. And despite that, GBA sales stayed decent in the US through most of '07; it took a while for it to completely fade out.
Oh, and I definitely noticed that phaseout of the GBA myself -- I didn't buy a DS until early '07, and one of my main reasons for buying one was because of how NCL had basically killed of the GBA. '05 and '06 had both seen solid GBA release lists, but it was obvious '07 was not going to continue that, and indeed it didn't -- there were only three or so good GBA games released that year.
I mean, of course Nintendo was slowly decreasing the focus on the GBA and increasing it on the DS through 2006, but it wasn't until the end of the year that first party support was killed off, and that was the key move.
It's the 2nd lowest console game in terms of sales. That's pretty bad.
Bruno MB
Member
Is the Graces F figure from March NPD?
Regarding Tales of sales you can't simply expect to sell your product if you don't advertise it properly, so the only one to blame here is Namco Bandai.
If it were a brand new game in the series, I would have understood, but it's a porting not advertised and which had big shortages at launch. And we're talking about a period from February to May. Moreover, we know it did 1/2 Graces F's launch in its launch month, so probably something like 20-25k. This means it's already showing some legs, compared to other JRPGs in America. It'll probably end at 60k, not so distant from the original Abyss. I can't consider it bad, seeing the circumstances.
Would have done pretty solidly I'm sure in 2010. Nintendo could have made a good RPG push had they announced that, Xenoblade, and The Last Story were all coming to NA.
gamergirly
Member
I agree. We need at least a dozen solid rpgs for the Wii U next gen
This.
But what I really want is a Tales for Xbox, because I don't own a PS3... Tales of Vesperia PS3 for Xbox as DLC... please!!!!
Looks like both Graces f and Abyss 3DS sold more or less in line with what Tales games have been selling in the US. ToV eventually climbed to it's number but it didn't start out anywhere near it and I believe may have sold a not insignificant number once it's price was reduced. There's still hope that Graces f will climb towards (and maybe even hit, depending on how many Namco printed) 100k and for Abyss to come close to it's PS2 version's numbers.
So while it would be nice for Tales to be setting the sales charts on fire in America it just isn't realistic. The real question is Namco's expectations and how much money they had in the localization. If they covered localization costs and are making a profit (even if it's a modest one) then I'm not too afraid for the Tales series future in the West.
So while it would be nice for Tales to be setting the sales charts on fire in America it just isn't realistic. The real question is Namco's expectations and how much money they had in the localization. If they covered localization costs and are making a profit (even if it's a modest one) then I'm not too afraid for the Tales series future in the West.
Hero of Legend
Member
....I was talking about Graces F having good sales, not Abyss, hence why I mentioned "console game" not handheld.
I'm not sure what's going on at NamcoBandai UK's twitter, but sounds like the announcement isn't necessarily coming out this month.
I'm not sure what's going on at NamcoBandai UK's twitter, but sounds like the announcement isn't necessarily coming out this month.
I'm 100% sure whatever they announce will be at Japan Expo, which is a few days into July
DR2K
Banned
Games this niche have to be better than mediocre or exceptional to get those types of sales. Graces F was not one of those games. No one is going to recommend a game where your biggest proponents are saying, "Battles are cool, but everything else sucks!" If Xilia really is as bad as some people are saying then they're better off porting Vesperia again.
R_thanatos
Member
I'm disapointed
i have a WII JPN grace copy
and a PS3 US Graces F copy
I DID MY PART
Seriously ...63k is ...way too low ..i don't understand ...
i have a WII JPN grace copy
and a PS3 US Graces F copy
I DID MY PART
Seriously ...63k is ...way too low ..i don't understand ...
To be fair they did release it a week after Mass Effect 3.
I'm not sure what's going on at NamcoBandai UK's twitter, but sounds like the announcement isn't necessarily coming out this month.
Japan Expo is in July. If there's nothing there, I have no idea what Bamco UK is doing.
I do. Tales fans' enthusiasm is weak sauce. lol