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Penny Arcade Kickstarter
- Thread starter LiK
- Start date
It makes the least sense as a comment on Kickstarter, and if you can't see that after all the evidence I bothered to round up, then you're beyond reason. Feel free to hate them for the NPR analogy or whatever, but Penny Arcade has very consistently been a huge Kickstarter supporter and promoter.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
Why can't people just see this for what it is? They ran off donations before, they've always been pro-fans, and this really gives the site back to the fans. They've always had a love/hate thing with advertisements.. but it was the status quo to keep the site going.
It's not about the actual ads, but what it takes to get those ads, and what having those ads means they need to adhere too.
Penny-Arcade isn't a hobby anymore, it's their job. They've came a long way from working at Circuit Shitty selling PC's and writing stupid dick jokes with bad artwork. They have families to feed, and employees to retain and provide for.
They need the revenue to provide all that, and if this experiment works they won't have to deal with the nasty back end of advertisement revenue.
You think EvilLore likes having to have ad's to keep GAF running? Sure he hasn't asked for money, but honestly.. if he kickstarted an ad-free GAF that'd keep the money flowing to keep GAF flowing without ads.. we'd all pitch in.
Because they know they'd get blowback from offering subscriptions. Also, the base goal only gets rid of one of the ads. To actually get rid of all ads, it's $999,999.
edit: another thing is this is going to shoot themselves in the foot. Part of PA's expansion came from their partner projects that they say they won't do if KS money is raised.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Exciting new projects such as SIX WHOLE PAGES of a Lookouts comic. That is the kind of thing your yearly subsidy and banishment of pesky grease-work on ad copy will be buying, yours for the low price of half a million dollars.
Maybe at 1.4 million that gets bumped up to 12 pages, I JUST DONT KNOW.
Maybe at 1.4 million that gets bumped up to 12 pages, I JUST DONT KNOW.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
Crescent Fresh!
Shao Kahn Going Shopping
Banned
What are they giving the fans? The opportunity to buy the adspace, and put nothing in it?
Didn't Gabe+Tycho cut some kind of movie development deal for their "New Kid" IP? Isn't that the Jayden Smith career vehicle that Gary Whitta is writing with Shyamalan directing?
You know, at the start of the whole Kickstarter fad someone suggested it wouldn't be long until EA and Activision showed up demanding Kickstarter subsidies to develop CoD or Battlefield content. I thought that was batshit crazy. But now it seems a lot less crazy.
You know, at the start of the whole Kickstarter fad someone suggested it wouldn't be long until EA and Activision showed up demanding Kickstarter subsidies to develop CoD or Battlefield content. I thought that was batshit crazy. But now it seems a lot less crazy.
plagiarize
Banned
penny arcade runs adverts for the simple reason that they are not a fucking charity, even if they run one.
all this is is testing out an alternate revenue stream. if enough people feel that an ad free penny arcade is worth their money, then even the people that DON'T will get an ad free penny arcade.
it doesn't make any logical sense for someone to be mad at them trying to generate the amount of money they make with advertising through this method.
also consider that the less reliant they are on advertising the less pressure is on them not to piss off video game companies that advertise on the site.
I feel you are misconstruing arguments about making a statement via Kickstarter as an outright attack over the service itself. They like Kickstarter, I like Kickstarter. That doesn't mean they aren't experimenting with crowd funding here, especially with the jokey rewards they're offering. They are a successful, for-profit enterprise offering no concrete final product, it's a fairly unique position on KS to my knowledge and scrutiny should be expected.
plagiarize
Banned
they are offering a product: an ad free penny-arcade. and them being a successful for profit company has no bearing at all on them doing a kickstarter.
I think every website owner would like to ditch ads. I certainly would... but doing it on Kickstarter seems selfish. To me, it's more of a platform to fund projects that couldn't exist otherwise. It'd feel wrong asking users for money on Kickstarter to just remove ads. Just the possibility that I'd take attention away from a project that really needed it on there is enough to put me off.
Also - is this really going to work year after year? Even for a site like PA, raising $1m is no small feat. I don't think a lot of people realize this is an annual thing.
I can't imagine that PA go through a lot of effort to get good ads, it's a top 5K site, advertisers are probably lining up for them... if it's really eating into their creative time that's when it's time to hire a sales person.
I'm not sure why anyone would pledge for this. Everyone can do with their money what they want but there's nothing you gain by supporting this. I never found the ads to be intrusive and if I did, I would have used adblock or just stopped visiting the site. As long as they're not flash ads that play music, I'm totally fine with looking and clicking on ads.
I get that you want to support people that are producing things that you like but that's, in no way, what's happening here. You're not pledging to enable them to produce content that will happen regardless. You're not pledging to make sure the site will be alive in the future will also be the case regardless. You're not pledging so they can hire a person do produce X-kind of content that's not their goal. You're pledging so they don't have to deal with ad people anymore even though there will be absolutely no benefit for you?
For example: The reason I subscribed to GiantBomb was because they made it clear from the beginning that their site will only be able to stay online if people support it. My money went towards the website, and they were asking for money because they saw no other way to do what they wanted to without asking. If they asked me to give them money so there would be slightly less inconveniences for the people at GB, I'd not have given them a single cent.
I get that you want to support people that are producing things that you like but that's, in no way, what's happening here. You're not pledging to enable them to produce content that will happen regardless. You're not pledging to make sure the site will be alive in the future will also be the case regardless. You're not pledging so they can hire a person do produce X-kind of content that's not their goal. You're pledging so they don't have to deal with ad people anymore even though there will be absolutely no benefit for you?
For example: The reason I subscribed to GiantBomb was because they made it clear from the beginning that their site will only be able to stay online if people support it. My money went towards the website, and they were asking for money because they saw no other way to do what they wanted to without asking. If they asked me to give them money so there would be slightly less inconveniences for the people at GB, I'd not have given them a single cent.
I don't know. You have indiegogo projects to buy a laptop for someone who started an indiegogo project to send a bullied bus driver on vacation. It seems like these sites are now being used for general fundraising which isn't a bad way for them to evolve.
I agree that kickstarter funds would be better off going towards projects that might not get created otherwise and I'm certainly not contributing to the pa kickstarter but *shrug* people can support what they want with their money.
i don't know if this has been brought up yet (thread is too big), and i don't know how reliable alexa's stats are, but it seems the website is on a downward trend traffic wise and is at it's lowest point as far back as alexa's stats go (http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/penny-arcade.com)...
might be related?
might be related?
I'd agree with you, but I think whether this project is "creative" or not is worth inquiring into. Because the premise of Kickstarter is to help realise creative projects.
I think this would be a whole hell of a lot cooler, and in turn more acceptable (to me, at least), if the prizes weren't almost entirely digital, aside from a $125 autograph or a $150 shirt. Where is the actual swag? If this is truly just "running on donations" again, don't fucking use Kickstarter...
plagiarize
Banned
Kickstarter think this is an appropriate project for them. i think penny-arcade's product is creative with it being writing and comics and what have you.
You know before the CBS buyout I really wish GiantBomb had attempted some sort of kickstarter, before they missed the curve. It honestly feels like they themselves are a bit sick of hearing about kickstarter, in a way because they didn't take advantage of it when they could have.
To be fair though, I think they've come a long way in making being a subscriber somewhat worth it. They just need to have a more regular schedule for content. At this point it's easy enough to pay $5 for a month and watch a few months worth of their subscriber only content.
As for PA I agree, this hast o be an "experiment". I'm not sure why they would be doing this when they have such a profitable business.
If there have been any profitable businesses that have turned to Kickstarter in no real time of need in order to swap ad revenue for crowd sourced annual funding, I'm not aware of them. It's not a normal step, it's experimental and the nature of their company is relevant when you compare it against other projects trying to raise money on that site.
I think that's because one, there are going to be a lot of people donating and two, they've seen how much kickstarter prize packages end up costing companies once funded.
I've no problem with Kickstarter accepting this fundraiser; I'm making an in-principle argument. PA's output is already creative in nature, this project isn't helping them achieve that.
I wouldn't pay at all for an advertising-free GAF - why should I? The ads are not intrusive, and oftentimes relevant to me.
If there was a true GAF Gold that offered expanded features, I'd pay. If the site was going to go out of business without money, I'd pay. But I see no benefit to just dropping the ads.
That's the problem with this Penny Arcade Kickstarter -- it's a lot more hassle for them to sell ads than it is for me to view them. I'm paying them money so their lives can be easier, but the benefit to me is negligible at best. The ads they are removing are not being replaced with content. The suggestion that I should pay money to see a blank blue space rather than an ad is pretty ridiculous.
MacGurcules
Member
I really don't get the outrage about this.
If you ask me, this makes a lot more sense than having separate subscriber access. Rather than needing to maintain user accounts and a paywall, they have one site for everyone to enjoy equally. Less overhead, less hassle. And rather than having an unknown number of premium users paying every month/year and just pocketing the money, they say, "Here's how much money we need to run the site for a year. If you think it's worth it, let's make it happen."
And honestly, I'm more comfortable with this than a lot of Kickstarter projects. They are successful, so I can be more confident they know what kind of work and how much money they really need to make this work.
Even the joke incentives are fine with me. Kickstarter isn't about buying anything. It's about supporting something you think deserves your support. The incentives are there for the people that go way above and beyond. You're not buying five PAX passes. You're giving them $2000 because you think Penny Arcade is worth that to you. You just get the passes as a bonus. Too many projects go way overboard with the premiums and bonuses and end up with way less money than they thought they would after fulfilling them. This actually comes across as more honest to me.
If you ask me, this makes a lot more sense than having separate subscriber access. Rather than needing to maintain user accounts and a paywall, they have one site for everyone to enjoy equally. Less overhead, less hassle. And rather than having an unknown number of premium users paying every month/year and just pocketing the money, they say, "Here's how much money we need to run the site for a year. If you think it's worth it, let's make it happen."
And honestly, I'm more comfortable with this than a lot of Kickstarter projects. They are successful, so I can be more confident they know what kind of work and how much money they really need to make this work.
Even the joke incentives are fine with me. Kickstarter isn't about buying anything. It's about supporting something you think deserves your support. The incentives are there for the people that go way above and beyond. You're not buying five PAX passes. You're giving them $2000 because you think Penny Arcade is worth that to you. You just get the passes as a bonus. Too many projects go way overboard with the premiums and bonuses and end up with way less money than they thought they would after fulfilling them. This actually comes across as more honest to me.
Risible
Member
Gaming Hyperbole ‏@GamingHyperbole
How much do I need to donate to @PA_MegaCorp ‪#Kickstarter‬ to get the reward level that makes the comic funny again?
OUCH. Man do people love to hate on PA.
I can see those companies doing this to make the games everyone online is demanding but won't be made under the current business plans. Imagine if EA decides to use Kickstarter to develop Mirror's Edge 2. We will probably get an ever bigger uproar sure, but you can bet your backside it will get funded pretty quickly.
Has it ever been funny?
D
Deleted member 10571
Unconfirmed Member
http://yourkickstartersucks.tumblr....hings-people-have-pointed-out-about-the-penny
I really hope this blows up right in their faces.
Yesterday, I liked Penny Arcade. Today I'm pretty sure they're just entitled, brazen fucks. This is not what Kickstarter is for, and they're spitting in the face of people who could actually use it properly for awesome, actual projects.
I really hope this blows up right in their faces.
Yesterday, I liked Penny Arcade. Today I'm pretty sure they're just entitled, brazen fucks. This is not what Kickstarter is for, and they're spitting in the face of people who could actually use it properly for awesome, actual projects.
StrikerObi
Member
Agreed. It's the NPR model. Nobody donates $500 to NPR for a tote bag. The tote bag is a small way that NPR can say "thank you". It's a visual reminder of their thanks for your support, and it puts NPR's name out there when you use it to carry your groceries.
With a lot of Kickstarters, you are buying into a product in it's development stage, and as a result you are getting the product at or below cost. This helps raise the money so that they can actually make a ton of their product, and sell the rest for profit. Penny Arcade is not using this model. They are using Kickstarter in a more genuine way. They are using it to ask for funding, and they are offering incentive gifts as a thank you, just like NPR.
I suppose they could do this all by themselves on their own site, but why bother developing all of that infrastructure when Kickstarer does basically the same thing? It's a lot easier from a logistical standpoint.
Anyway, I gave them $25. I've been reading the site since year 1 and I'd gladly pay for it if I needed to. Plus, if this really does free them up to do more things, that's great, especially if they earn enough money to re-launch Downloadable Content, which is one of my all time favorite podcasts.
MacGurcules
Member
These are all completely evident if you just read their Kickstarter page. None of it is hidden. What's the issue? You're not buying shit when you pledge a project on Kickstarter. Any incentives are just that, incentives. If you don't think you're getting value for your money, don't pay.
electricpirate
Member
I always liked the PA model of using ads as a form of recommendations. They have pointed me to at least a couple of really interesting titles that I wouldn't have looked at otherwise. It's weird to say, but I'll actually kind of miss the adds if this goes through.
StrikerObi
Member
But Tycho will always highlight stuff they are playing and loving in the news post.
If this was not what Kickstarer "was for" then Kickstarter wouldn't have approved the listing. If you don't agree with it, don't pay. Penny Arcade will be the same either way. Either people look at and click on ads, or they pay directly. Either way, you are still giving them revenue.
D
Deleted member 10571
Unconfirmed Member
I didn't post it for the details of the Kickstarter, but for the amount of reblogs and notes this tumblr got in this amount of time.
ClosingADoor
Member
Interesting to see how this turns out. With everything being expected to be free online, it is cool to see people are willing to donate/pay for content in this way.
notworksafe
Member
And it got more than 2x that number in backers. Not sure what point you're making here.
Tylahedras
Banned
" Gabe will think about you during sex" lmao
plagiarize
Banned
well, it isn't making something uncreative creative, but you could obviously argue that something like this is going to increase their productivity by freeing up time otherwise spent chasing advertising. it's also potentially going to increase their creative freedom by not having corporate sponsors to worry about upsetting. i mean, not that it ever seemed to really effect the end product, but that's not to say there wasn't a lot of debate and internal wrangling over such things.
some real pedantry there. 'i didn't give a negative opinion about it, i just insulted it'.
notworksafe
Member
His first mistake was giving a shit what Jim Sterling thinks.
I like their comics (except how the art has taken a massive nosedive in the past handful of years), but they've always seemed like douchebags to me.
electricpirate
Member
There were a few where I maybe missed the news post, and the PA report is doing more of that stuff now, so it's not a huge deal, I just always thought the idea of adds that I could actually trust was kind of great.