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Sonic Adventure 2 officially announced, leaking onto consoles this fall

Y

YoYo Switch

Banned
I hate Sonic Adventure so much. Beginning of the end as far as I'm concerned.

Adventure 2 is just as bad, but....

...I kinda think it has a good story
 
J

JennyTablina

Member
It's a little sad this thread so quickly devolved into "lol sonic fans: the thread" - not all Sonic fans are insane, quite a number are pretty reasonable. But we like to celebrate I guess!

(also the Sonic fandom was kind of like this even before SA2 showed up, ahh early internet memories~)

I'ld consider myself a Sonic fan, and while I won't say no to a re-release of SA2, I can't say it's the series' crowning glory by any stretch, but it's a decent enough title. I come for the Sonic levels, stay for the music and chao gardens, sort of enjoy the Tails & Eggman sections, and endure the Knuckles and Rouge stages to get to the rest.

The fandom has a few people who try to stand up for 06, but most of them hates that game with a vengeance. A few defend Silver the Hedgehog (who's maybe the most interesting new character from that hot mess) but yeah...
 
M

Mama Robotnik

Member
YoYo Switch said:
...I kinda think it has a good story
Click to expand...


Shizzlee said:
If Shadow would have stayed dead then it would have been a good story.
Click to expand...

There's this hedgehog that has saved the world countless times over from a murderous genius madman. The President authorises all available force (including crashing a gigantic monstrous truck through a busy urban center killing thousands and infesting the area with robots) to pursue the hedgehog, while the murderous genius madman who has threatened all life on the planet on countless occasions, and recently unleashed a water monster onto a city killing millions, is allowed to act without any response.

In the past, the grandfather of the murderous genius madman invented a giant space lizard for unknown reasons. The government sent special forces in to subdue him, causing a small girl to be killed as collateral damage, her death is not the subject of any investigation. The grandfather was chained, suffered a mental breakdown, allowed to film a threatening message of vengeance and summarily executed without trial and any consideration for his mental health. The laboratory of the grandfather is allowed to remain intact, so that any evildoer can use it in the future without the slightest difficulty.

The hero hedgehog chases the President's limousine with minimal response from its security escort, while the murderous genius madman blows up part of the moon. The government needs to send a discrete covert operative to follow a red echinda mystery man, and naturally sends a Bat with Tits.

A black hedgehog of indeterminate origin makes it his sole quest to murder the hero hedgehog and wipe out billions of people due to him misinterpreting the dying wishes of a little girl. The hero hedgehog goes into a pyramid and fights ghosts. Then they all go up to the space station, turn magic super, and fight a giant space lizard for indetermined reasons. The black hedgehog dies for some reason. The animals, the secret agent Bat with Tits, and the murderous genius madman celebrate saving the day by "working together".

YOU CALL THIS A GOOD STORY?

Yeah, you are absolutely right, its up there with other good gaming stories, like Legacy of Kain, System Shock 2, Majora's Mask and Portal.
 
S

Shadoken

Member
^^ Every game's story is horrendous when you break it down like that.

It was good for what its worth . you cant really expect a game with animal characters with super powers and shit to make sense.
 
K

Kokonoe

Banned
Mama Robotnik said:
There's this hedgehog that has saved the world countless times over from a murderous genius madman. The President authorises all available force (including crashing a gigantic monstrous truck through a busy urban center killing thousands and infesting the area with robots) to pursue the hedgehog, while the murderous genius madman who has threatened all life on the planet on countless occasions, and recently unleashed a water monster onto a city killing millions, is allowed to act without any response.

In the past, the grandfather of the murderous genius madman invented a giant space lizard for unknown reasons. The government sent special forces in to subdue him, causing a small girl to be killed as collateral damage. The grandfather was chained, suffered a mental breakdown, allowed to film a threatening message of vengeance and summarily executed without trial and any consideration for his mental health. The laboratory of the grandfather is allowed to remain intact, so that any evildoer can use it in the future without the slightest difficulty.

The hero hedgehog chases the President's limousine with minimal response from its security escort, while the murderous genius madman blows up part of the moon. The government needs to send a discrete covert operative to follow a red echinda mystery man, and naturally sends a Bat with Tits.

A black hedgehog of indeterminate origin makes it his sole quest to murder the hero hedgehog and wipe out billions of people due to him misinterpreting the dying wishes of a little girl. The hero hedgehog goes into a pyramid and fights ghosts. Then they all go up to the space station, turn magic super, and fight a giant space lizard for indetermined reasons. The black hedgehog dies for some reason. The animals, the secret agent Bat with Tits, and the murderous genius madman celebrate saving the day by "working together".

YOU CALL THIS A GOOD STORY?

Yeah, you are absolutely right, its up there with other good gaming stories, like Legacy of Kain, System Shock 2, Majora's Mask and Portal.
Click to expand...

Well one, "good" doesn't necessarily mean masterpiece. At least, that's what you seem to be making it out to be. Two, there are certain themes present in this universe that make it different than what you're trying to get out of it.

Sonic isn't in a realistic world, nor is he a realistic character. Ever try to make sense out of all the times Bowser kidnaps Peach? There is none, and it's meant to be that way.
 
T

toadster101

Banned
JennyTablina said:
It's a little sad this thread so quickly devolved into "lol sonic fans: the thread" - not all Sonic fans are insane, quite a number are pretty reasonable. But we like to celebrate I guess!
Click to expand...

image.php
 
D

Darth Tigris

Member
Mama Robotnik said:
There's this hedgehog that has saved the world countless times over from a murderous genius madman. The President authorises all available force (including crashing a gigantic monstrous truck through a busy urban center killing thousands and infesting the area with robots) to pursue the hedgehog, while the murderous genius madman who has threatened all life on the planet on countless occasions, and recently unleashed a water monster onto a city killing millions, is allowed to act without any response.

In the past, the grandfather of the murderous genius madman invented a giant space lizard for unknown reasons. The government sent special forces in to subdue him, causing a small girl to be killed as collateral damage. The grandfather was chained, suffered a mental breakdown, allowed to film a threatening message of vengeance and summarily executed without trial and any consideration for his mental health. The laboratory of the grandfather is allowed to remain intact, so that any evildoer can use it in the future without the slightest difficulty.

The hero hedgehog chases the President's limousine with minimal response from its security escort, while the murderous genius madman blows up part of the moon. The government needs to send a discrete covert operative to follow a red echinda mystery man, and naturally sends a Bat with Tits.

A black hedgehog of indeterminate origin makes it his sole quest to murder the hero hedgehog and wipe out billions of people due to him misinterpreting the dying wishes of a little girl. The hero hedgehog goes into a pyramid and fights ghosts. Then they all go up to the space station, turn magic super, and fight a giant space lizard for indetermined reasons. The black hedgehog dies for some reason. The animals, the secret agent Bat with Tits, and the murderous genius madman celebrate saving the day by "working together".

YOU CALL THIS A GOOD STORY?
Click to expand...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSn0A7Kw5oI
 
M

Mama Robotnik

Member
Shadoken said:
It was good for what its worth .
Click to expand...

Additional and a bit late for an edit: I'm not quite sure how you are defining "what its worth", but there is no measurable way that SA2 had a good story. It made no sense. It was terribly written, with clumsy dialogue read by talentless incapable voice actors. It (along with SA1) retconned all the simple dignity from the story told in the 16 bit games and replaced with congealed shit in which Sonic lives on Earth, in which Presidents run armies of robots and dispatch killer trucks through populated cities, in which cities are flooded and no one blinks at the mass death happening around them, and in which Sonic and the rest of his repugnant friends cannot say or do anything without being annoying. Its sheer, stinking idiocy.

Can you please explain to me, how this is good? If you could take the time to provide me with some examples of the good elements of Sonic Adventure 2's storyline, it would honestly help me develop a clearer understanding of your opinion. Thanks.
 
M

Mama Robotnik

Member
Kokonoe said:
Ever try to make sense out of all the times Bowser kidnaps Peach? There is none, and it's meant to be that way.
Click to expand...

Bowser loves Peach and is unable to express this verbally due to emotional immaturity. He kidnaps her as a failed attempt at affection.

This shit has been confirmed since Paper Mario, do keep up. Its also infinitely simpler, more dignified and better written than any Sonic game following Sonic and Knuckles.
 
K

Kokonoe

Banned
Mama Robotnik said:
Bowser loves Peach and is unable to express this verbally due to emotional immaturity. He kidnaps her as a failed attempt at affection.

This shit has been confirmed since Paper Mario, do keep up.
Click to expand...

I'm talking about the process of how this occurs. Is it logical that a Princess in her own Kingdom can be taken away multiple amount of times and no one has learned anything? Is it also possible that this Princess hasn't received any injuries from all the crazy kidnappings that have occurred?

As a matter of fact, your reference to Eggman not immediately having an offensive thrown at him is similar to how Bowser just does as he pleases.

Only so much amount of logic can be applied to these types of universes.
 
W

Why would you do that?

Member
Sonic Adventure 2 was 1/3 awesome, 1/3 good, and 1/3 horrible. Therefore, it equals out to a good game. :p Not to mention that after beating it, I could choose any level I want, making it an awesome game. lol.

Also, I'm a sucker for a game with awesome music, so yeah, I do like Adventure 2, and I will get this HD release.
 
M

Mama Robotnik

Member
Kokonoe said:
I'm talking about the process of how this occurs. Is it logical that a Princess in her own Kingdom can be taken away multiple amount of times and no one has learned anything? Is it also possible that this Princess hasn't received any injuries from all the crazy kidnappings that have occurred?

As a matter of fact, your reference to Eggman not immediately having an offensive thrown at him is similar to how Bowser just does as he pleases.

Only so much amount of logic can be applied to these types of universes.
Click to expand...

The Mario games maintain a fairy-tale universe which exists as a mad backdrop for gameplay experiences. The games are not in any way character or event driven (with the exception of the RPGs, which are done quote well), or polluted with bad writing/acting/unskippable cutscenes/annoying excessive characters/etc. The story is abstract and background, and does not ask for scrutiny as it is completely non-intrusive. It simply provides context for the game.

The Sonic games of this shitty era are dominated by story and characters. There is excess dialogue and unskippable cutscenes in mass amount. We are forced to take in exposition on Presidents, executions, flooded cities, moons exploding, murdered children and clones. They present this scifi politic death nonsense alongside anthropomorphic animals who are driving the events. This invites scrutiny because every playthrough of the game shoves this shit down our throats. The attempts to set events in the "real world" also doesn't help.

Sonic's story is a pollutant infesting all aspects of the game, dominating everything. Its convoluted, obtrusive, unskippable, nonsensical and inane, whereas Mario's is dignified in its minimalism. One of these approaches invites more criticism than the other, can you guess which one?
 
S

Sciz

Member
Shadoken said:
It was good for what its worth . you cant really expect a game with animal characters with super powers and shit to make sense.
Click to expand...

Between the games, cartoons, and comics, there's plenty of Sonic media that manages to tell a perfectly good story without edging into pure nonsense on either end of the spectrum. The console games between SA2 and '06 fail at this miserably.
 
R

RedSwirl

Junior Member
Why would you do that? said:
Sonic Adventure 2 was 1/3 awesome, 1/3 good, and 1/3 horrible. Therefore, it equals out to a good game. :p Not to mention that after beating it, I could choose any level I want, making it an awesome game. lol.

Also, I'm a sucker for a game with awesome music, so yeah, I do like Adventure 2, and I will get this HD release.
Click to expand...

Basically this. I played the shit out of SA2 back in 2001. Then I bought SA2B on the Gamecube for some reason, and at some point realized I was more comfortable playing the Dreamcast version, and went back to that.

I'm finding it hard to convince myself to pick up this HD version. How was the HD port of SA1?
 
D

Drago

Member
Mama Robotnik said:
The Sonic games of this shitty era are dominated by story and characters. There is excess dialogue and unskippable cutscenes in mass amount. We are forced to take in exposition on Presidents, executions, flooded cities, moons exploding, murdered children and clones. They present this scifi politic death nonsense alongside anthropomorphic animals who are driving the events. This invites scrutiny because every playthrough of the game shoves this shit down our throats. There attempts to set events in the "real world" also doesn't help.

Sonic's story is a pollutant infesting all aspects of the game, dominating everything. Its convoluted, obtrusive, nonsensical and inane, whereas Mario's is dignified in its minimalism. One of these approaches invites more criticism than the other, can you guess which one?
Click to expand...

Colors and especially Generations definitely took a big step back in the story department. I think Sega learned that their stories were awful trash and they just stopped. :p

Generations barely had a story at all, even. I hope the rest of the series is like that, but they could always screw up again... :|
 
M

Mama Robotnik

Member
Drago said:
Colors and especially Generations definitely took a big step back in the story department. I think Sega learned that their stories were awful trash and they just stopped. :p

Generations barely had a story at all, even. I hope the rest of the series is like that, but they could always screw up again... :|
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'll add that my criticism above is labelled solely at Sonic Adventure 1/2/Heroes/Shadow/2006/Rush/Rush Adventure/Advance 3/Dark Brotherhood/Unleashed and the rest of the shitty shitty shitey shit from that era.

I wouldn't call myself a fan of Colours/Generations from what bits I have played, they're the best of a bad bunch certainly though. They took a much smarter approach to story, bringing it closer to Mario style minimalism with what I will happily admit are more positive results.

When people say that Sonic Adventure 2 has a "good story" though, it really truly boggles the mind.
 
D

Dead Man Typing

Member
I loaded up my Sonic Adventure 2 Dreamcast save file recently and I had 90 hours logged in that game. I had unlocked the Green Hill bonus stage which required A-ranking all 5 challenges in each of the levels, but I had no idea I'd spent so much time with that game.

And I bought it on the Gamecube and finished it (didn't get all A-ranks this time).

If this is getting a similar HD treatment that Jet Set Radio is enjoying, then I'll buy it day 1. If it is to a similar non-standard that Sonic Adventure 1 attained, it shall remain unpurchased until some kind of sale.

Edit: Also, you guys are being harsh on the Sonic fans at Sonic Boom. They're just having a good time and cheering everything thrown at them. Some of the videos from last year were crazy. I'd much rather see people being happy and cheering than golf clap applause or similar. I'm pretty sure they could have announced a new type of Sonic Paper weight being sold at the Sega shop and it would have gotten a similarly rapturous reaction.
 
S

ShabbyGevo

Banned
Why is it that the people who supposedly are disgusted by and hate all these terrible, vaguely sexual sonic drawings are always the ones who spam said images? It's like you guys have harddrives full of this shit. I certainly don't keep thousands of pictures around which offend me to the core.

And I say this as someone who hates Sonic Adventure 2.
 
R

RedSwirl

Junior Member
Mama Robotnik said:
The Mario games maintain a fairy-tale universe which exists as a mad backdrop for gameplay experiences. The games are not in any way character or event driven (with the exception of the RPGs, which are done quote well), or polluted with bad writing/acting/unskippable cutscenes/annoying excessive characters/etc. The story is abstract and background, and does not ask for scrutiny as it is completely non-intrusive. It simply provides context for the game.

The Sonic games of this shitty era are dominated by story and characters. There is excess dialogue and unskippable cutscenes in mass amount. We are forced to take in exposition on Presidents, executions, flooded cities, moons exploding, murdered children and clones. They present this scifi politic death nonsense alongside anthropomorphic animals who are driving the events. This invites scrutiny because every playthrough of the game shoves this shit down our throats. The attempts to set events in the "real world" also doesn't help.

Sonic's story is a pollutant infesting all aspects of the game, dominating everything. Its convoluted, obtrusive, unskippable, nonsensical and inane, whereas Mario's is dignified in its minimalism. One of these approaches invites more criticism than the other, can you guess which one?
Click to expand...

Now I remember how I tolerated SA2: once you beat the game you get level select which allows you to skip all that bullshit.

I think the issue with Sonic though is that because it's Sega's flagship franchise, they feel it has to be AAA with AAA production values. Nintendo on the other hand doesn't give a shit, or at least keeps the production values focused on making a fun game.
 
S

ShabbyGevo

Banned
RedSwirl said:
Now I remember how I tolerated SA2: once you beat the game you get level select which allows you to skip all that bullshit.

I think the issue with Sonic though is that because it's Sega's flagship franchise, they feel it has to be AAA with AAA production values. Nintendo on the other hand doesn't give a shit, or at least keeps the production values focused on making a fun game.
Click to expand...

Except for Mario Sunshine, of course. It wasn't grimdark, at least, but it was pretty cringe-worthy. Luckily, it seems Nintendo's experiment with story telling in mario games died with that one. Mario should never be put on trial in a video game.
 
R

RedSwirl

Junior Member
ShabbyGevo said:
Except for Mario Sunshine, of course. It wasn't grimdark, at least, but it was pretty cringe-worthy. Luckily, it seems Nintendo's experiment with story telling in mario games died with that one. Mario should never be put on trial in a video game.
Click to expand...

Sunshine wasn't even bad. It just had more cut scenes than we were used to for a Mario game. Even then it didn't have that many.

Might need to get back on that since I lost my save file... never did get all those damn blue coins.
 
S

ShabbyGevo

Banned
RedSwirl said:
Sunshine wasn't even bad. It just had more cut scenes than we were used to for a Mario game. Even then it didn't have that many.

Might need to get back on that since I lost my save file... never did get all those damn blue coins.
Click to expand...

It wasn't as bad, but don't fool yourself into thinking they weren't bad. At the bare minimum, those cutscenes weren't enjoyable in any way. And they should never have existed in the first place.

EDIT: Look at it this way - did you ever look forward to a cutscene in mario sunshine? Or, after one ended, did you ever think, "that was cool!" Could you pump those mickey-mouse sounding voices on loud without fear of embarrassment from your roommates?

They weren't "mario has sex with an animal" bad, but they were still the low-point of that game.
 
S

ShabbyGevo

Banned
qq more said:
Wasn't there a GAFer who actually likes 06's story?
Click to expand...

From what I gather, that game's story is basically Dragon Ball Z: The Sonic Version, so it wouldn't surprise me. I've seen people enjoy the most rancid crap before.

Don't forget, somewhere somebody likes all these creepy sexual sonic pictures.
 
K

KSai

Member
I don't know if I'll be able to get all 180 emblems a third time, but I'll try to do it again! I'm definitely getting this. I still think that Meteor Herd would have made a great stage for a four-player game of Hide and Go Seek.
 
G

Game Guru

Member
Mama Robotnik said:
Sonic 3 and Knuckles.
Click to expand...

You mean how Knuckles is convinced that Sonic is after his Master Emerald but doesn't seem to care that Robotnik is rebuilding his deadly space station on his island and has apparently built places like Hydrocity Zone and Carnival Night Zone on his island as well?
 
K

Kokonoe

Banned
Mama Robotnik said:
The Mario games maintain a fairy-tale universe which exists as a mad backdrop for gameplay experiences. The games are not in any way character or event driven (with the exception of the RPGs, which are done quote well), or polluted with bad writing/acting/unskippable cutscenes/annoying excessive characters/etc. The story is abstract and background, and does not ask for scrutiny as it is completely non-intrusive. It simply provides context for the game.

The Sonic games of this shitty era are dominated by story and characters. There is excess dialogue and unskippable cutscenes in mass amount. We are forced to take in exposition on Presidents, executions, flooded cities, moons exploding, murdered children and clones. They present this scifi politic death nonsense alongside anthropomorphic animals who are driving the events. This invites scrutiny because every playthrough of the game shoves this shit down our throats. The attempts to set events in the "real world" also doesn't help.

Sonic's story is a pollutant infesting all aspects of the game, dominating everything. Its convoluted, obtrusive, unskippable, nonsensical and inane, whereas Mario's is dignified in its minimalism. One of these approaches invites more criticism than the other, can you guess which one?
Click to expand...

I've practically read your exact opinion of this game a few times in each and every Sonic Adventure 2 thread I've been in. I get that you don't like it, but you're still taking the story more seriously than I've ever seen anyone else take it. A backdrop doesn't give it the excuse of which is portrayed in Sonic Adventure. Sonic Adventure is just a bit more elaborate with the story in that sense. And either or not the RPG Mario games have a better story is strictly an opinion, but I do want to point out that these are games I'm referencing when I bring up your logic comparisons.

I get that you don't like the style, but it makes just as much sense as Mario themed stories. However, I don't really understand the part you mention of which the story itself ruins the game. I mean, it's a Sonic game, at the end of the day you play the game, you don't play the cutscenes. I understand story is important in some games, but in platformers it's not a pinnacle usually. Is the story your biggest concern with Sonic Adventure 2?
Game Guru said:
You mean how Knuckles is convinced that Sonic is after his Master Emerald but doesn't seem to care that Robotnik is rebuilding his deadly space station on his island and has apparently built places like Hydrocity Zone and Carnival Night Zone on his island as well?
Click to expand...
Yeah, it's why I'm bringing up my points. I think it's a bit unfair to look at Adventure this way and not look at the classics in the same light. Or least, trying to bring logic out in places that it wouldn't make sense to.
dokish said:
I'd rather have and HD remake of the first game.

http://youtu.be/Suxkbl5R5yo

GODLY SOUNDTRACK.
Click to expand...
Indeed.
 
R

Reiko

Banned
Mama Robotnik said:
There's this hedgehog that has saved the world countless times over from a murderous genius madman. The President authorises all available force (including crashing a gigantic monstrous truck through a busy urban center killing thousands and infesting the area with robots) to pursue the hedgehog, while the murderous genius madman who has threatened all life on the planet on countless occasions, and recently unleashed a water monster onto a city killing millions, is allowed to act without any response.

In the past, the grandfather of the murderous genius madman invented a giant space lizard for unknown reasons. The government sent special forces in to subdue him, causing a small girl to be killed as collateral damage, her death is not the subject of any investigation. The grandfather was chained, suffered a mental breakdown, allowed to film a threatening message of vengeance and summarily executed without trial and any consideration for his mental health. The laboratory of the grandfather is allowed to remain intact, so that any evildoer can use it in the future without the slightest difficulty.

The hero hedgehog chases the President's limousine with minimal response from its security escort, while the murderous genius madman blows up part of the moon. The government needs to send a discrete covert operative to follow a red echinda mystery man, and naturally sends a Bat with Tits.

A black hedgehog of indeterminate origin makes it his sole quest to murder the hero hedgehog and wipe out billions of people due to him misinterpreting the dying wishes of a little girl. The hero hedgehog goes into a pyramid and fights ghosts. Then they all go up to the space station, turn magic super, and fight a giant space lizard for indetermined reasons. The black hedgehog dies for some reason. The animals, the secret agent Bat with Tits, and the murderous genius madman celebrate saving the day by "working together".

YOU CALL THIS A GOOD STORY?

Yeah, you are absolutely right, its up there with other good gaming stories, like Legacy of Kain, System Shock 2, Majora's Mask and Portal.
Click to expand...


You're a great poster. But let's be honest, Sonic 06' makes this story look like The Godfather.
 
G

Game Guru

Member
Kokonoe said:
Yeah, it's why I'm bringing up my points. I think it's a bit unfair to look at Adventure this way and not look at the classics in the same light. Or least, trying to bring logic out in places that it wouldn't make sense to.
Click to expand...

Yeah. It's obvious that Sonic 3 & Knuckles is a better game than Sonic Adventure 2, but none of that has anything to do with its story compared to SA2's.
 
Q

qq more

Member
Dark Schala said:
Probably the same GAF member who thought that it had better physics-based gameplay than Half-Life 2 and raged at everyone who didn't share the same opinion.
Click to expand...

Nonono, I'm sure it was someone else. He admitted he like the story in a thread not too long ago (I think around this year)!
 
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