By creating a well educated populace that understands that the myelin in someone's skin and someone's bone structure and skin texture have nothing to do with someone's character and intelligence. Part of that begins with equal education. This can also be combated with laws that punish racism like in the OP. This still leaves the immediate problem of more subtle racism, however I think the education part will help with that over time. Racism is a serious problem, but thinking of quick fixes like racist programs are not the solution. Just wondering, how would you combat racism in a non racist way? Or do you think racism in the work place requires racist programs to stop it?Okay but how to do you solve the issue of prejudice within work spaces?
Explain to me then how it works? My understanding is that it is meant to help portions of a population that have been historically disadvantaged for unjust reasons. I think there are non racists ways about doing that. There fore I disagree with types of affirmative action that use race as a determinant for benefits. Affirmative action is a broad topic and I'm sure there are programs that aren't racist, but many of the programs I have seen are. Ex. College scholarships or workforce race quotas.
What does that have to do with affirmative action?
That was all he was arguing against.
By creating a well educated populace that understands that the myelin in someone's skin and someone's bone structure and skin texture have nothing to do with someone's character and intelligence. Part of that begins with equal education. This can also be combated with laws that punish racism like in the OP. This still leaves the immediate problem of more subtle racism, however I think the education part will help with that over time. Racism is a serious problem, but thinking of quick fixes like racist programs are not the solution. Just wondering, how would you combat racism in a non racist way? Or do you think racism in the work place requires racist programs to stop it?
By creating a well educated populace that understands that the myelin in someone's skin and someone's bone structure and skin texture have nothing to do with someone's character and intelligence.
Part of that begins with equal education. This can also be combated with laws that punish racism like in the OP.
By creating a well educated populace that understands that the myelin in someone's skin and someone's bone structure and skin texture have nothing to do with someone's character and intelligence. Part of that begins with equal education. This can also be combated with laws that punish racism like in the OP. This still leaves the immediate problem of more subtle racism, however I think the education part will help with that over time. Racism is a serious problem, but thinking of quick fixes like racist programs are not the solution. Just wondering, how would you combat racism in a non racist way?Or do you think racism in the work place requires racist programs to stop it?
I'm not sure how it is now but I know that many public schools used to look to make race quotas in thier student acceptance. However not sure if that's still how it is. However even if it's private does that mean they can be racist? I'm pretty sure that was cleared up when privately run businesses couldn't refuse service to people based on race. As far as I understand, it's against the law.Most of the scholarships I assume you're arguing against are private ones.
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It's funny how you think measures to ensure that minorities also get a fair shake are racist.
I never said that. If I did quote me and I'll clear up the misunderstanding because I do not believe that. And do you disagree with my suggestions of combating racism in a non racist way? And from your hostility I would guess ÿøü think I'm a racist, I can assure you I'm not.It's funny how you think measures to ensure that minorities also get a fair shake are racist.
But those measures could, in theory, inconvenience a privileged majority! That means they're MAXIMUM RACIST have to be eliminated.
I never said that. If I did quote me and I'll clear up the misunderstanding because I do not believe that. And do you disagree with my suggestions of combating racism in a non racist way? And from your hostility I would guess ÿøü think I'm a racist, I can assure you I'm not.
I never said that. If I did quote me and I'll clear up the misunderstanding because I do not believe that. And do you disagree with my suggestions of combating racism in a non racist way? And from your hostility I would guess ÿøü think I'm a racist, I can assure you I'm not.
I never said they would "inconvenience a privileged majority". I just morally disagree with many of affirmative actions programs. I don't think the people who are implementing them are racist, just misguided. If you want to argue whether affirmative action is racist or not is one thing, but comments like these just muddle the conversation.But those measures could, in theory, inconvenience a privileged majority! That means they're MAXIMUM RACIST have to be eliminated.
I never said they would "inconvenience a privileged majority". I just morally disagree with many of affirmative actions programs. I don't think the people who are implementing them are racist, just misguided. If you want to argue whether affirmative action is racist or not is one thing, but comments like these just muddle the conversation.
I never said they would "inconvenience a privileged majority".
Again. Tell us your salve other than education because education doesn't dismantle institutionalized racism as well as you think it does.
I never said they would "inconvenience a privileged majority". I just morally disagree with many of affirmative actions programs. I don't think the people who are implementing them are racist, just misguided. If you want to argue whether affirmative action is racist or not is one thing, but comments like these just muddle the conversation.
Surely people won't do something that's wrong if they know why it's wrong.
Right?
Right?
I did explain how I would, by keeping laws that criminalize racial discrimination in the work force. If its open this will stop it, but like I said, hidden racism is harder to stop. I think education is the best way to do so. I'm on my phone so I'm slow to do my research, but what I disagree with is your insulation that racism can't be combated with non racist programs. Education wouldn't completely end discrimination but it would go a long way, the problem is its gradual. But with such a complex issue as racism the idea of ending it completely within a few years is naive. Also can't watch the video right now :/ on a limited data and on phone. I will bookmark and watch tomorrow.Explain to me how you'd really integrate the workplace without the help of AA. Go on. You keep mentioning education as if that's the end all be all of ceasing discrimination. You know what actually assists in confronting and dismantling discrimination? Forcing people to take a longer look at their prejudices in hiring standards. Double blind resume reviews. And in the case of musicians, hiding their gender.
By creating a well educated populace that understands that the myelin in someone's skin and someone's bone structure and skin texture have nothing to do with someone's character and intelligence. Part of that begins with equal education. This can also be combated with laws that punish racism like in the OP. This still leaves the immediate problem of more subtle racism, however I think the education part will help with that over time. Racism is a serious problem, but thinking of quick fixes like racist programs are not the solution. Just wondering, how would you combat racism in a non racist way? Or do you think racism in the work place requires racist programs to stop it?
I did explain how I would, by keeping laws that criminalize racial discrimination in the work force. If its open this will stop it, but like I said, hidden racism is harder to stop. I think education is the best way to do so. I'm on my phone so I'm slow to do my research, but what I disagree with is your insulation that racism can't be combated with non racist programs. Education wouldn't completely end discrimination but it would go a long way, the problem is its gradual. But with such a complex issue as racism the idea of ending it completely within a few years is naive. Also can't watch the video right now :/ on a limited data and on phone. I will bookmark and watch tomorrow.
I actually don't think they are equally bad. I just believe the injustices done to many minorities can be corrected with non-racist programs.This is what you're implying every time you refer to affirmative action as racist policy. You are suggesting that measures that could help minorities to make up for unfair societal disadvantages are somehow just as bad as the injustice they're intended to correct, but you haven't even made a solid argument as to why this is true.
I did explain how I would, by keeping laws that criminalize racial discrimination in the work force. If its open this will stop it, but like I said, hidden racism is harder to stop. I think education is the best way to do so. I'm on my phone so I'm slow to do my research, but what I disagree with is your insulation that racism can't be combated with non racist programs. Education wouldn't completely end discrimination but it would go a long way, the problem is its gradual. But with such a complex issue as racism the idea of ending it completely within a few years is naive. Also can't watch the video right now :/ on a limited data and on phone. I will bookmark and watch tomorrow.
I actually don't think they are equally bad. I just believe the injustices done to many minorities can be corrected with non-racist programs.
I actually don't think they are equally bad. I just believe the injustices done to many minorities can be corrected with non-racist programs.
I would agree that it's intent isn't racist. Which is to have all races have equal opportunity and to eliminate racial discrimination. However I think some of the programs under the broad banner of affirmative action are racists. Not all affirmative action is racist. Would you disagree? For example, a scholarship rewarded to someone based on race. Is that racist?Except affirmative action isn't racist. I really think that's the part you're not understanding.
I would agree that it's intent isn't racist. Which is to have all races have equal opportunity and to eliminate racial discrimination. However I think some of the programs under the broad banner of affirmative action are racists. Not all affirmative action is racist. Would you disagree? For example, a scholarship rewarded to someone based on race. Is that racist?
I would agree that it's intent isn't racist. Which is to have all races have equal opportunity and to eliminate racial discrimination. However I think some of the programs under the broad banner of affirmative action are racists. Not all affirmative action is racist. Would you disagree? For example, a scholarship rewarded to someone based on race. Is that racist?
I would agree that it's intent isn't racist. Which is to have all races have equal opportunity and to eliminate racial discrimination. However I think some of the programs under the broad banner of affirmative action are racists. Not all affirmative action is racist. Would you disagree? For example, a scholarship rewarded to someone based on race. Is that racist?
Yes I support affirmative action, but only the non racist programs. I don't support the racist programs that are considered affirmative action.Good, so do we.
I take it this means you support affirmative action now?
Once again, scholarships that are given to students of a certain race or creed are privately funded, meaning they can have whatever requirements they want. It has nothing to do with affirmative action.
Yes I support affirmative action, but only the non racist programs. I don't support the racist programs that are considered affirmative action.
What? Just because it is private doesn't mean they can be racist.Once again, scholarships that are given to students of a certain race or creed are privately funded, meaning they can have whatever requirements they want. It has nothing to do with affirmative action.
Hey. Don't you let your facts get in the way of my arguments.
What? Just because it is private doesn't mean they can be racist.
NAACP is racist.
Oh boy that stuff is even worse. The definition of good intentions that go wrong.
What? Just because it is private doesn't mean they can be racist.
No, scholarships are just the simplest example I can use. I'm on my phone so I'm limited as to how fast I can respond and since I'm responding to several people it's even more difficult. I welcome anyone to pm me if they would like to discuss this more extensively and in depth another time.Are you livid over preferential legacy enrollment?
I would agree that it's intent isn't racist. Which is to have all races have equal opportunity and to eliminate racial discrimination. However I think some of the programs under the broad banner of affirmative action are racists. Not all affirmative action is racist. Would you disagree? For example, a scholarship rewarded to someone based on race. Is that racist?
I'd rather they be stupid and blatant so people can take them to court.
If they say blonde hair and blue eyes can they still be taken to court? Obviously they mean white people, but if they phrase it that way doe it get them an out since the majority of white people don't have those features?
No, scholarships are just the simplest example I can use. I'm on my phone so I'm limited as to how fast I can respond and since I'm responding to several people it's even more difficult. I welcome anyone to pm me if they would like to discuss this more extensively and in depth another time.
I tried to quote the wiki definition but had some trouble. Basically for AA it defined it as policies. I would say private scholarships that are given away are wide spread enough to be considered a non official national policy. I agree that "improving minority representation in higher education [is] not racist", but descrimating based on race is. Just because you are trying to help a race doesn't mean you cant be racist towards them or other races.The point was that they are not "affirmative action programs" as such. Scholarship programs are a separate thing, though scholarship programs can be done with similar goals in mind as affirmative action programs.
And no, a scholarship that discriminates on the basis of race because of a mission of improving minority representation in higher education would not be racist.
I tried to quote the wiki definition but had some trouble. Basically for AA it defined it as policies. I would say private scholarships that are given away are wide spread enough to be considered a non official national policy. I agree that "improving minority representation in higher education [is] not racist", but descrimating based on race is. Just because you are trying to help a race doesn't mean you cant be racist towards them or other races.
There's such a wealth of JOBS that are never undertaken by people, to argue that EMPLOYERS ARE racist is hilarious.
This kind of argument legitimately reeks of ignoring the various programs or institutionalized racism/general advantages that still haven't evaporated that AA programs seek to counter balance.
I tried to quote the wiki definition but had some trouble. Basically for AA it defined it as policies. I would say private scholarships that are given away are wide spread enough to be considered a non official national policy. I agree that "improving minority representation in higher education [is] not racist", but descrimating based on race is. Just because you are trying to help a race doesn't mean you cant be racist towards them or other races.
I'm not sure how it is now but I know that many public schools used to look to make race quotas in thier student acceptance. However not sure if that's still how it is. However even if it's private does that mean they can be racist? I'm pretty sure that was cleared up when privately run businesses couldn't refuse service to people based on race. As far as I understand, it's against the law.
With AA in place for several decades why hasn't institutionalized racism disappeared? And I understand the purpose of AA and I agree with its goals, just not how some of it is implemented.
sorry, I'll phrase it with a different question so my point is more clear. Would you consider something racist if it discrimates based on race, whether it be for the benefit or disadvantage of that race.The intent is to promote greater diversity on the campus or workplace, and give disadvantaged demographics an opportunity to transcend their disadvantaged backgrounds and slowly lift their demographic along with them so that they don't need programs like affirmative action to succeed.
I don't get what you're asking with the second part. No I don't believe scholarships for specific minorities are racist, as they seek to achieve what I said in the first paragraph
sorry, I'll phrase it with a different question so my point is more clear. Would you consider something racist if it discrimates based on race, whether it be for the benefit or disadvantage of that race.