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[Apophis2036]

Maybe because AMD has a SOC design that will make it cheaper & easier for them to add other chips to the SOC & they will work together with the CPU & GPU.

Thanks for the answer.

 

[hodgy100]

If they can get games running on PS3 that look like MGS 4, God of War 3, Heavy Rain, GT 5, Uncharted 3, Beyond, Last of Us and Last Guardian then it is going to be truly frighting what we can expect on a machine that is 8-10 times more powerful.

I have a question of my own, why are Sony dumping the Cell after spending so much time and money on it ?, wouldn't boosting the clocks of the CPU and adding in the 2 - 4GB's of Ram along with the 1.8 tFLOP GPU to it not make it just as powerful rather than starting again with an AMD CPU ?.

Third parties are pretty much used to developing for it now and it would also ensure PS3 backward compatibility.

While very powerful at the time the cell is now a 6-7 year old CPU architecture and it really doesn't provide the level of performance that can be achieved with a more modern CPU.

They cant boost the clocks as the chips already run hot enough at 3.2ghz, which in itself is already pretty high. and adding more ram wont provide much of a graphical jump, it will just allow for larger worlds / maybe more objects and larger textures.

 

[mrklaw]

I keep hearing people argue that PS4 won't come out until 2014 because Sony wants a generational jump. Is there an expected breakthrough in GPUs or CPUs that would make that likely, or is it just random speculation?

 

[StevieP]

I keep hearing people argue that PS4 won't come out until 2014 because Sony wants a generational jump. Is there an expected breakthrough in GPUs or CPUs that would make that likely, or is it just random speculation?

Random speculation combined with vague statements by Sony brass akin to "when we're ready". Unless there is some massively huge delay in AMD's technology (which I doubt - both MS and Sony's GPUs are going to be based on GCN, for example) both of those consoles are going to launch in 2013.

 

[Stephen Colbert]

I keep hearing people argue that PS4 won't come out until 2014 because Sony wants a generational jump. Is there an expected breakthrough in GPUs or CPUs that would make that likely, or is it just random speculation?

Google Nvidia Project Denver or Nvidia Maxwell.

Thats what people are hoping for (or AMDs equivalent)

 

[AzaK]

We'll just have to agree to disagree on that then. I believe the WiiU will be in a similar position to the Wii this gen. It will occasionally get ports of huge franchises, and they'll usually be handled by a "B team" developer hired by the publisher for the task, ie, the Call of Duty games on Wii.

Triple A developers are not going to be saddled with the responsibility of significantly altering their game engine to run on the WiiU, so the B Team is brought in to do a port.

Remember, it will be coming out a year (at least) before the competition. If it can build a strong install base and show that "core" games sell on it, it would not be prudent for publishers to ignore the platform.

But I guess I expect them to have about a $500-$550 budget on the console, and hoping they go as far as custom built 2-2.5GFLOPs GPU, with at least 4gb stacked memory, and the newest most recent custom architecture they can get in the thing for that price. CPU wise I dont know what to expect. I dont even know how Sandy bridge/ivy bridge tech compares to something like Xenon or Cell for example. Sometimes it sounds like there taking 2 steps forward and 1 step backwards with the CPU vs whats in the PS3. Based on what people are saying this only seems possible if they release in 2014.

You left out your theoretical retail pricing. Are you happy to pay US$500 for a console? Do you think (Using PS4 as our example) Sony would sell it at $500? Do you think they'd take a bit hit again like last time and say sell for $400, putting themselves even further into the red? Sony is in a tough position. They are a company that prides themselves on using top end tech, but they've bled so much money that they are in financial trouble.

 

[BruiserBear]

I keep hearing people argue that PS4 won't come out until 2014 because Sony wants a generational jump. Is there an expected breakthrough in GPUs or CPUs that would make that likely, or is it just random speculation?

It's not about waiting for newer chips. It's about when the best chips might be cheaper. As I'm sure you know, a graphics card that costs $250 today, might cost $175 half a year later. Sony is rumored to be using a top end card, and it would probably be cheaper to manufacture that card 6-12 months later.

I'm inclined to believe Sony might launch in 2014. Jack Tretton said they weren't in a hurry at E3, and that "it's not about being first", which to me sounds like a signal they're waiting til 2014.

Remember, it will be coming out a year (at least) before the competition. If it can build a strong install base and show that "core" games sell on it, it would not be prudent for publishers to ignore the platform.

What do you think the odds are of that happening? I say not very good.

 

[AzaK]

What do you think the odds are of that happening? I say not very good.

It's really really really hard to predict and I make no claim to know enough about business, marketting and the industry to know the answer. However we have a number of bits of information in our arsenal of reasoning.

Negative:
1) Western third parties have not really supported Nintendo platforms for some time.

2) Nintendo is "shunning" power for unique gameplay. And power is something Western studios seem to love.

3) Nintendo skews younger/casual in their games and general branding. This often goes against Dudebro-ness. If publishers fall for it, we're in trouble.


Positives:

1) Third parties were too late to support Nintendo platforms and therefore lost out on potential revenue.

3) Budgets exploded and studios collapsed. More sales are always a good thing to keep a studio going.

3) CoD has sold pretty well on the Wii all things considered. So there is a market there.

4) The Wii U is modern architecture and therefore should be very port friendly.

5) Never underestimate Nintendo's crazy ideas.

My desired outcome is to have a strong western third party line up on the system so that the Wii U can have a variety of gaming experiences. If I had to make a call right now I'd say it's more positive than negative overall although I am wary, given the lack of info on games coming down the line for the system.

If Nintendo can get enough of these units out there, with ports of current HD games pretty much a standard part of the process like PS3/360 is now, then I think it'll be safe. I imagine within 6-8 months we'll have a much clearer picture because the system will be out and selling. Hopefully before the launch we'll actually start seeing publishers talking about their games.

 

[JohnnySasaki86]

I keep hearing people argue that PS4 won't come out until 2014 because Sony wants a generational jump. Is there an expected breakthrough in GPUs or CPUs that would make that likely, or is it just random speculation?

Its speculation combind with some key things Sony has said to its stockholders and a key technical hurdle that wouldnt be a problem. One of the biggest technical hurdles that would be rectified by launching later in 2014 is memory densities. Developers have been pushing for more than 4gb of memory, 2gb especially is not going to cut it. Also by just being able to get better chips and more silicon in there for the same price. 1.8tflop GPU vs 2.5tflop GPU, maybe in 2014 it would allow more stream processors for the same price, combinded with something that is just a little bit more efficient?

Its also speculation based on Sony's current 2013 software release schedule for PS3. GoW:A, TLoU, and Beyond are all big budget 2013 release titles. TLG is still in development and may or may not release in 2013.

Remember, it will be coming out a year (at least) before the competition. If it can build a strong install base and show that "core" games sell on it, it would not be prudent for publishers to ignore the platform.



You left out your theoretical retail pricing. Are you happy to pay US$500 for a console? Do you think (Using PS4 as our example) Sony would sell it at $500? Do you think they'd take a bit hit again like last time and say sell for $400, putting themselves even further into the red? Sony is in a tough position. They are a company that prides themselves on using top end tech, but they've bled so much money that they are in financial trouble.

$399. Loosing $100 to $150 per console is very possible. Last time they were loosing more than $340 per console at launch. Through software, accessories, and new services like PS+ and Gaikai, which may be combined together, they should be able to offset $150 console loss and make a some profit even at launch. Early adopters have a very high software attach rate.

 

[LastNac]

I'll take that as a no.

 

[Giant Panda]

Launching in 2014 is a mistake. Consoles sales are already down this year, and will be down further next year. Price cuts may counter-act some of this but this gen is definitely winding down. Also give Nintendo more than a year to themselves at your own peril.

If the only point in waiting is to be a little more powerful, then it is not worth it.

 

[JohnnySasaki86]

Launching in 2014 is a mistake. Consoles sales are already down this year, and will be down further next year. Price cuts may counter-act some of this but this gen is definitely winding down. Also give Nintendo more than a year to themselves at your own peril.

If the only point in waiting is to be a little more powerful, then it is not worth it.

Launching with to little memory would be a HUGE mistake, and would affect the longevity of the console. Just think if MS didnt up the 360 from 256mb to 512mb. This generation would of played out a lot differently as there would of been a huge disparity in RAM differences between the two consoles. PS3 would of almost had twice as much RAM. 360 would of needed a revision 3 years ago.

A price cut that goes below $199 could very easily counter act the sales decline long enough for PS4/720 to launch in Fall 2014.

That's strictly not true. The cell can still do things conventional CPUs cannot achieve.

Yea, which is why it seems if PS4 doesnt go with an evolution of Cell it seems like 2 steps forward but 1 step backwards all at the same time. I would hope the CPU in the successor to the PS3 would be an upgrade on all levels, just like Cell was to EE.

 

[Grim1ock]

While very powerful at the time the cell is now a 6-7 year old CPU architecture and it really doesn't provide the level of performance that can be achieved with a more modern CPU.
.

That's strictly not true. The cell can still do things conventional CPUs cannot achieve.

 

[BruiserBear]

Launching with to little memory would be a HUGE mistake, and would affect the longevity of the console. Just think if MS didnt up the 360 from 256mb to 512mb. This generation would of played out a lot differently as there would of been a huge disparity in RAM differences between the two consoles. PS3 would of almost had twice as much RAM. 360 would of needed a revision 3 years ago.

A price cut that goes below $199 could very easily counter act the sales decline long enough for PS4/720 to launch in Fall 2014.

The next Xbox is definitely coming fall of 2013. That is practically confirmed at this point.

The question is what does Sony do? Launch at the same time, or wait another 6-12 months? I think it would be a mistake for Sony to launch in 2014.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Launching with to little memory would be a HUGE mistake, and would affect the longevity of the console.

Do you know what tends to affect the longevity of a console? Poor sales and low market-share leading to a nonviable platform.

If Sony launch a significant period of time after both the Wii U and the X720 then they may as well not launch at all.

 

[JohnnySasaki86]

The next Xbox is definitely coming fall of 2013. That is practically confirmed at this point.

The question is what does Sony do? Launch at the same time, or wait another 6-12 months? I think it would be a mistake for Sony to launch in 2014.

Why is it definitely going to launch in fall of 2013? Is there some new info I dont know about? Before the only reason MS had to launching earlier was cause they thought Sony was going to. What if plans changed and Sony delayed the PS4? Xbox 360 is still selling great, and hasnt had a price drop in a long time.

 

[onQ123]

Thanks for the answer.

Not really a answer just an assumption.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Why is it definitely going to launch in fall of 2013? Before the only reason MS had to launching earlier was cause they thought Sony was going to. What if plans changed and Sony delayed the PS4? Xbox 360 is still selling great, and hasnt had a price drop in a long time.

 

[JohnnySasaki86]

That in no way is far or representative of 360's performance, or even PS3's. All that data and declines is largely due to the Wii. Wii contributed huge amounts of revenue to the market between 2007-2010. I would like to see charts like that based solely on xbox 360's revenue over the years. 360 software and hardware sales have had a small decrease since 2011. But if you compare it since 2005-2009, its going to way up. You whole post is biased to your point of view and doesnt accurately represent the state MS gaming sector is in right now.

 

[noobie]

Interestingly XBOX is falling more in terms of HW percentage YOY but PS3 Software is falling more rapidly YOY.
did PS3 launched quite a few FP Exclusives in First Half of 2011 in comparison to this year?

 

[shinra-bansho]

That in no way is far or representative of 360's performance, or even PS3's. All that data and declines is largely due to the Wii. Wii contributed huge amounts of revenue to the market between 2007-2010. I would like to see charts like that based solely on xbox 360's revenue over the years. Show me the declines then. There wont be declines, just increases.

There are two charts there showing large Y/Y declines in HW and SW specifically for the HD platforms...

Microsoft just shipped its lowest number of HW units for FYQ4 since 06/07.

Interestingly XBOX is falling more in terms of HW percentage YOY but PS3 Software is falling more rapidly YOY.
did PS3 launched quite a few FP Exclusives in First Half of 2011 in comparison to this year?

I think that the 360 has a larger installed base overall and is still selling more even with larger HW declines plays a role. Although last year had LBP2, Killzone 3 and Infamous 2 in H1.

Although it also had the PSN hack.

 

[JohnnySasaki86]

There are two charts there showing large Y/Y declines in HW and SW specifically for the HD platforms...
I think that the 360 has a larger installed base overall and is still selling more even with larger HW declines plays a role. Although last year had LBP2, Killzone 3 and Infamous 2 in H1.

Although it also had the PSN hack.

I edited my post after I saw the two bottom charts, read it now. Comparing it to just 2011 isn't a fair representation for MS and 360. 2012 should be the 2nd or 3rd strongest year for MS and 360 since it released. This is still the golden years for xbox 360. They should be in no rush to launch a next gen console unless there main competitor is going to.

One of their main competitors is going to launch this year.

I strongly feel that what Nintendo does has little affect on what MS or Sony does. Sony is there main competitor. IF Wii U was going to be on the market for more than 2 years by itself, than maybe it would start to affect MS. They have about a 2 year window where they can use 360 to compete against Wii U. Hell supposedly we wont even see games that are actually built from the ground up for the Wii U for two years. Supposedly none of its launch window titles are. Also 360 getting a price drop may cause a big change to your 2011 vs 2012 charts.


edit: also I wanted to be really clear that I'm not trying to say I think the consoles will launch in 2014 for sure. They still could launch in 2013, but imo its just as possible to even a little more possible that they will launch in Fall of 2014 in NA. I wouldnt bet on either. My point is a 2013 launch isn't a sure bet or a guarantee like a lot of people in thread are implying. I personally hope they due release there next gen consoles in 2014 for hardware reasons and we have plenty of awesome games coming up for PS3 in 2013.

 

[shinra-bansho]

I edited my post after I saw the two bottom charts, read it now. Comparing it to just 2011 isn't a fair representation for MS and 360. 2012 should be the 2nd or 3rd strongest year for MS and 360 since it released. This is still the golden years for xbox 360. They should be in no rush to launch a next gen console unless there main competitor is going to.

One of their main competitors is going to launch this year.

I strongly feel that what Nintendo does has little affect on what MS or Sony does. Sony is there main competitor. IF Wii U was going to be on the market for more than 2 years by itself, than maybe it would start to affect MS. They have about a 2 year window where they can use 360 to compete against Wii U. Hell supposedly we wont even see games that are actually built from the ground up for the Wii U for two years. Supposedly none of its launch window titles are. Also 360 getting a price drop may cause a big change to your 2011 vs 2012 charts.


edit: also I wanted to be really clear that I'm not trying to say I think the consoles will launch in 2014 for sure. They still could launch in 2013, but imo its just as possible to even a little more possible that they will launch in Fall of 2014 in NA. I wouldnt bet on either. My point is a 2013 launch isn't a sure bet or a guarantee like a lot of people in thread are implying. I personally hope they due release there next gen consoles in 2014 for hardware reasons and we have plenty of awesome games coming up for PS3 in 2013.

I'm not sure what price cut you're expecting, or what you expect it to do.

They're already at a mass market price, and have been for years. They'll likely lower the Kinect bundle prices to compete with Wii U.

But at best they'll be around or slightly above CY2009 sales, but still far below 2010 and 2011 sales this year. With no cards to play next year to stem even further decline.

 

[BruiserBear]

Why is it definitely going to launch in fall of 2013? Is there some new info I dont know about? Before the only reason MS had to launching earlier was cause they thought Sony was going to. What if plans changed and Sony delayed the PS4? Xbox 360 is still selling great, and hasnt had a price drop in a long time.

The writing is on the wall everywhere you look. Leaks have been happening for months now that developers have development kits in their hands to make games for the next Xbox. If you follow a lot of gaming media it's basically spoken about as a known fact that Microsoft is launching next fall. Sony is the real question mark.

 

[Loghorn150]

I strongly feel that what Nintendo does has little affect on what MS or Sony does. Sony is there main competitor. IF Wii U was going to be on the market for more than 2 years by itself, than maybe it would start to affect MS. They have about a 2 year window where they can use 360 to compete against Wii U. Hell supposedly we wont even see games that are actually built from the ground up for the Wii U for two years. Supposedly none of its launch window titles are. Also 360 getting a price drop may cause a big change to your 2011 vs 2012 charts.

If Nintendo manages to start to give the Wii U good advertising starting at Tokyo Game Show, & then beyond that, & makes the launch price of the console very market friendly (say like, $300), then most people are going to pick up the Wii U & will ignore PS3/360, especially with Nintendo's 1st/2nd party selections plus 3rd party support coming on it.

 

[shinra-bansho]

If Nintendo manages to start to give the Wii U good advertising starting at Tokyo Game Show, & then beyond that, & makes the launch price of the console very market friendly (say like, $300), then most people are going to pick up the Wii U & will ignore PS3/360, especially with Nintendo's 1st/2nd party selections plus 3rd party support coming on it.

I think Wii U will be competing with PS360, in the same way that the 360 (and PS3) had to compete with the PS2 at the start of this gen.

But even if sales were similar to those launches a two-year lead would allow Nintendo to ship 15-20M by holiday 2014 - not only that but cost reduction during that time might allow them to sell at a $200 pricepoint by then.

Microsoft and Sony would be stupid to allow that sort of lead.

 

[Loghorn150]

I think Wii U will be competing with PS360, in the same way that the 360 (and PS3) had to compete with the PS2 at the start of this gen.

But even if sales were similar to those launches a two-year lead would allow Nintendo to ship 15-20M by holiday 2014 - not only that but cost reduction during that time might allow them to sell at a $200 pricepoint by then.

Microsoft and Sony would be stupid to allow that sort of lead.

Which is why, IMO, that waiting until 2014 just to make your next gen consoles tons more powerful than the Wii U would be a very stupid move. Not only would those systems cost more than the Wii U, but most 3rd party developers aren't going to exactly take full advantage of the system's power, & that would just mean a lot of money wasted.

Not to mention that they will have a very hard time trying to catch up to Wii U in sales & will be hard for them to make a good install base, just like what happened to Nintendo before with SNES/Super Famicon, in which came out 2 years after Sega Genesis/MegaDrive came out. If it weren't for Sega's stupid decisions such as with the multiple add-ons, along with launching Sega Saturn too early & with a high price tag, then Nintendo wouldn't have won the console war at all. The Wii U might wind up being the next PS2 in terms of 3rd party support & a huge install base if that happens.

 

[JohnnySasaki86]

One of their main competitors is going to launch this year.


I'm not sure what price cut you're expecting, or what you expect it to do.

They're already at a mass market price, and have been for years. They'll likely lower the Kinect bundle prices to compete with Wii U.

But at best they'll be around or slightly above CY2009 sales, but still far below 2010 and 2011 sales this year. With no cards to play next year to stem even further decline.

I'm expecting a 360 model with a HDD at $199(or could be $249) when Sony drops there console to $199. Maybe in the fall when Sony releases there new PS3 model. That would create an xbox core model well under $199 for them. This should significantly increase sales for the holiday and the momentum should continue beyond March 2013/end of FY2012. oh and BTW $299 for the main model Xbox which includes a HDD is not a mass market price.

edit: btw it should also be stated that in the latest up to date sales article posted by gamasutra, where I think you got those charts from, said that the mean price of Xbox 360 was $289. This is no where near mass market. The mean price of the console has got to be below $199.

 

[shinra-bansho]

The mean price of the console isn't going to go below $199 with a price cut.

I'm expecting a 360 model with a HDD at $199(or could be $249) when Sony drops there console to $199. Maybe in the fall when Sony releases there new PS3 model. That would create an xbox core model well under $199 for them. This should significantly increase sales for the holiday and the momentum should continue beyond March 2013/end of FY2012. oh and BTW $299 for the main model Xbox which includes a HDD is not a mass market price.

The mass market doesn't really care. There's a mass market model being sold for $200 or less. What they need is a Kinect SKU for $200, but I don't think they'll get there yet.

Define significantly. Are you saying they'll be up, flat or down Y/Y post-price cut? By how much and for how many months?

Why would that "momentum" carry through another full calendar year and a half into 2014?

Are you actually assuming the Wii U will have no impact on 360 sales, not only in the US but in the EU?

It just doesn't make sense. A price cut will not extend the lives of these consoles through another 24 months.

 

[bigtroyjon]

But at best they'll be around or slightly above CY2009 sales, but still far below 2010 and 2011 sales this year. With no cards to play next year to stem even further decline.

Microsoft's (and all the other companies) main concern at this point in a gen is software and the 360 is still doing great at generating software revenue. Considering what is coming up this fall, 2012 has a decent shot at beating 2011 for 360 software revenue at US retail.

If anyone needs to release a new console based on sales, it's Sony. Certainly no point in continuing to cut the price trying to sell more PS3 hardware when the software sales continue to drop. The issues in Europe make the US even more important right now and they can't afford to become an afterthought in the region.

That being said, I do think 720 ends up fall 2013, with the main reason being the new Gears of War game that's coming out next spring. Really odd time to release the game, ~18 months after the previous one, unless it's to get out of the way of something.

Sony will make a big, big mistake and release in fall 2014.

 

[JohnnySasaki86]

The mean price of the console isn't going to go below $199 with a price cut.

The mass market doesn't really care. There's a mass market model being sold for $200 or less. What they need is a Kinect SKU for $200, but I don't think they'll get there yet.

Define significantly. Are you saying they'll be up, flat or down Y/Y post-price cut? By how much and for how many months?

Why would that "momentum" carry through another full calendar year and a half into 2014?

Are you actually assuming the Wii U will have no impact on 360 sales, not only in the US but in the EU.

The mean price of the console being $289 shows that the mass market does care and that only a small portion of market, maybe only 11% buys the $199 model. By significantly I mean sales will be much more during the holiday than if they hadnt gave the price cut, and will close a large portion of the gap between 2011 and 2012 sales, but probably not all of it(maybe 50-75% of it?). Carrying some of that momentum over into 2013 by 3-4 months isnt half the year btw.

 

[bgassassin]

Sony will make a big, big mistake and release in fall 2014.

Sony won't make it that long.

 

[bigtroyjon]

Sony won't make it that long.

Uh, does your avatar rotate or did you change it in the 5 seconds when I refreshed the thread?

And if the Euro continues to sit around 95 Yen, you are absolutely correct.

 

[AzaK]

Sony won't make it that long.

That would be a shame.

And welcome back other bg avatar.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Microsoft's (and all the other companies) main concern at this point in a gen is software and the 360 is still doing great at generating software revenue. Considering what is coming up this fall, 2012 has a decent shot at beating 2011 for 360 software revenue at US retail.

If anyone needs to release a new console based on sales, it's Sony. Certainly no point in continuing to cut the price trying to sell more PS3 hardware when the software sales continue to drop. The issues in Europe make the US even more important right now and they can't afford to become an afterthought in the region.

That being said, I do think 720 ends up fall 2013, with the main reason being the new Gears of War game that's coming out next spring. Really odd time to release the game, ~18 months after the previous one, unless it's to get out of the way of something.

Sony will make a big, big mistake and release in fall 2014.

Software revenues could be up, I agree, with Halo et al.

I would say that examining the US in isolation gives an incomplete picture for how software is holding up for both consoles, but moreso for the PS3 which divides more evenly among the major markets.

Nintendo's briefing will be interesting in terms of examining how much of a decline Europe is seeing. Europe was holding up well in Q1.

I can't envisage a situation where they'd want to release in Q4 2014.

The mean price of the console being $289 shows that the mass market does care and that only a small portion of market, maybe only 11% buys the $199 model. By significantly I mean sales will be much more during the holiday than if they hadnt gave the price cut, and will close a large portion of the gap between 2011 and 2012 sales, but probably not all of it(maybe 50-75% of it?). Carrying some of that momentum over into 2013 by 3-4 months isnt half the year btw.

Kinect is what pushed the ASP up. Not HDDs. People are buying 4GB Kinect SKUs at $300. If they can put out a Kinect model for $200 then I can see it spurring sales.

 

[JohnnySasaki86]

Microsoft's (and all the other companies) main concern at this point in a gen is software and the 360 is still doing great at generating software revenue. Considering what is coming up this fall, 2012 has a decent shot at beating 2011 for 360 software revenue at US retail.

If anyone needs to release a new console based on sales, it's Sony. Certainly no point in continuing to cut the price trying to sell more PS3 hardware when the software sales continue to drop. The issues in Europe make the US even more important right now and they can't afford to become an afterthought in the region.

That being said, I do think 720 ends up fall 2013, with the main reason being the new Gears of War game that's coming out next spring. Really odd time to release the game, ~18 months after the previous one, unless it's to get out of the way of something.

Sony will make a big, big mistake and release in fall 2014.

That isnt fair to say because Sony hasnt had any big software releases. So far TM is there biggest release, and Mass Effect 3 which the fanbase favor 360 as the franchise started there. Starhawk seems to have bombed, and Max Payne didnt do as well as predicted.

2013 software wise looks to be much bigger than 2012 and maybe even 2011. The list of games that have been pushed into 2013 is insane. Games are going to have to bumped UP there release dates into holiday 2012 in order to not be over crowded. This is a list of major 2013 releases I thought up off the top of my head and there probably many more unannounced software titles too, and others I forgot. Most of these are said to be launching in the first 3 months of the year too! Ridiculous.

GoW: A
Tomb Raider
DmC
GTA5(rumored)
GeoW Judgement
Bioshock Infinite
Crysis 3
Metal Gear Rising
The Last of Us
Beyond Two Souls
Injustice: Gods Among Us
The Last Guardian(one would think it would be ready by sometime in 2013...)
Ni No Kuni

 

[bgassassin]

Uh, does your avatar rotate or did you change it in the 5 seconds when I refreshed the thread?

And if the Euro continues to sit around 95 Yen, you are absolutely correct.

Haha. Just changed it. But I'm not really buying into Tretton's PR. They are going to be as close to Xbox 3 as possible if not being a little ahead of it.

That would be a shame.

And welcome back other bg avatar.

On another forum I post occasionally on I never changed it and going back there prompted me to go back.

 

[JohnnySasaki86]

Kinect is what pushed the ASP up. Not HDDs. People are buying 4GB Kinect SKUs at $300. If they can put out a Kinect model for $200 then I can see it spurring sales.

Ok maybe that true but I'm sure HDDs still contributed to it. Im sure they would drop the kinect bundle too if they dropped the HDD model to $199. They'll drop the kinect bundle to whatever they drop the HDD model to.

Haha. Just changed it. But I'm not really buying into Tretton's PR. They are going to be as close to Xbox 3 as possible if not being a little ahead of it.

Its not Tretton PR I'd mainly look at, but what they've said to there stockholders. Thats not a PR statement, there not going to lie to there stockholders.

 

[LastNac]

All this talk about WiiU makes me feel like we might really end up getting a half-step with the other two in terms of a jump.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Ok maybe that true but I'm sure HDDs still contributed to it. Im sure they would drop the kinect bundle too if they dropped the HDD model to $199. They'll drop the kinect bundle to whatever they drop the HDD bundle to.

Pre-Kinect the Elite v. Arcade split relatively evenly. Post-Kinect I imagine there are far more Arcade units out in the wild.

HDDs create a price floor, especially due to the Thai floods.

It's why the PS3 XS with HDD isn't going to be $200 or less.

Inclusion of Kinect also create a price floor, presumably.

Ergo, if there is a price cut I imagine it will be $50. Unless they go for some more exotic pricepoints (that the PS3 appears to be going for $180, $230, $250).

XBOX 360 HDD with Kinect $350
XBOX 360 4GB with Kinect $250
XBOX 360 HDD $250
XBOX 360 4GB $150

And I don't see a $50 price cut spurring HW sales substantially at this stage of the cycle. And certainly not enough to sustain until 2014.

 

[onQ123]

All this talk about WiiU makes me feel like we might really end up getting a half-step with the other two in terms of a jump.

1/2 step? lol if a 1.84 TFLOP GPU is a 1/2 step from RSX I would love to see what their full step was going to be.

 

[JohnnySasaki86]

HDDs create a price floor, especially due to the Thai floods.

It's why the PS3 XS with HDD isn't going to be $200 or less.

Inclusion of Kinect also create a price floor, presumably.

Ergo, if there is a price cut I imagine it will be $50. Unless they go for some more exotic pricepoints (that the PS3 appears to be going for $180, $230, $250).

XBOX 360 HDD with Kinect $350
XBOX 360 4GB with Kinect $250
XBOX 360 HDD $250
XBOX 360 4GB $150

And I don't see a $50 price cut spurring HW sales substantially at this stage of the cycle. And certainly not enough to sustain until 2014.

I still think a $50 price will still do some substantial damage based on the fact it would be 2 years since the last price cut. Thats a long time.

Also to the bolded thats interesting. Where has that been suggested or rumored?

Well then what is there to expect? If Agni's philosophy is meme worthy than what is realistic?

I think or I hope that the next gen consoles will be able to easily run Agni's Philosophy through optimization on closed hardware. Also I expect these specs to get better. There based on Feb. Devs kits that will be almost 2 years old if PS4 releases in late 2013. The spec should get better. Not to mention if a 2014 launch happens like some evidence points to.

 

[LastNac]

1/2 step? lol if a 1.84 TFLOP GPU is a 1/2 step from RSX I would love to see what their full step was going to be.

Well then what is there to expect? If Agni's philosophy is meme worthy than what is realistic?

 

[CorrisD]

Also to the bolded thats interesting. Where has that been suggested or rumored?

From the "New PS3 Model Pics Leaked" topic.

It seems like 179,229,269 are the magic numbers

He's reliable.

 

[AB12]

What are the chances of the GPU being 7970/some modified version of it?

 

[onQ123]

Well then what is there to expect? If Agni's philosophy is meme worthy than what is realistic?

I think you read too much into that joke.

if PS4 is really going to be 10X the PS3 then Agni's philosophy will be possible if they make the game around the hardware that's in the PS4.

 

[Kleegamefan]

What are the chances of the GPU being 7970/some modified version of it?

Good chance of a modified 7970 "M" which is an over 2 teraflop gpu with a TDP of less than 100 watts!!!

 

[Thunder Monkey]

We (I) talked about the other consoles in the Wii U thread.

Not only do we talk other consoles in the WiiU spec thread I was just posting about a shirt I had that ended up inspiring the ThunderMonkey character through chance.

What up?!

As long as there are secondary or tertiary connections to the thread at hand our conversations are generally allowed to be free-flowing. Besides we've already got a better idea of what is in both Sony and MS consoles than we do WiiU. We've at least got their general floppage range.

All we know about WiiU is generalities. 2-3x the power derp.

We know through dev commentary that the CPU is not a modern analog of the PS3/360 CPU's. Seems to forego brute force for ease.

GPU we know even less. I mean the range by those in the know is everything from barely more powerful than current gen to potentially a lot more. We've got a pretty good idea of the RAM total though.

 

[RiverBed]

Retro-question:
Did PS3 make a profit off of the h/w? How about with h/w and s/w together?

Anyone know the cost/profit margines of PS3? I feel like Sony is still losing money on PS3 but I'm not sure. I think that plays a factor in not only PS4's launch time, but also every facet of the system.

 

[StevieP]

What are the chances of the GPU being 7970/some modified version of it?

There are no 7970s that I am aware of that have 18 CUs and put out 1.8tf.

The console will be based on GCN architecture, but you're not getting the equivalent of a Tahiti model.